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First Man (on the Moon) - Neil Armstrong Biopic

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RamjetFDO

RamjetFDO 10575

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28 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

I heard that they edited out the planting of the US flag on the moon. If so, F em. That was a pretty big deal for this country.

From what I've read, they did... and I have a few thoughts (sorry for stepping into any /nocloakroom discussions):

  1. If the movie ends with that "One Small Step..." moment, then that makes it a PERFECT ending and no flag planting is required as it happened (obviously) after that First Step.
  2. If the movie ends with Mission Complete (whether it's lunar liftoff, splashdown, or something other than "after everything about Apollo 11 on the Moon was shown in the movie"), then it's either:
    • A monumental editing error (oopsie), or
    • A conscious decision (as has been reported) to minimize the AMERICAN effort, risk, expenditure, and success in favor of modern PC 'Murica-bashing.

I truly hope it's #1, as that would be a highly satisfactory ending to a dramatic background telling of Neil's story.  But - based on recent reporting, Gosling was quick to dismiss the first lunar landing "as not just an American victory but “transcending countries and borders.”"  

Now, while I may agree with him that the ENTIRE WORLD celebrated, rejoiced, and took immense pride in what the Apollo program did... this wasn't a UN mission.  We weren't *claiming* the Moon, we were recognizing the effort (and of course, sticking it in the face of the Soviets - which would be revisionist history to ignore).

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89675

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40 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

I heard that they edited out the planting of the US flag on the moon. If so, F em. That was a pretty big deal for this country.

If they filmed it, I doubt they edited that part out unless they were really pressed for time - this whole movie is about AMERCA.  Plus Steven Spielberg is executive producer, his company is involved in production/financing, and Universal is behind it.  And let's face it, the target audience is AMERCA.

A while back, I heard that the movie ended with him giving his famous speech and stepping off the ladder.  That would be a perfectly fine ending.  (SHIT Ramjet beat me to it)

The film as it is runs 2 hours, 18 minutes, but if they are cutting things out for timing, it wouldn't surprise me.  Looking at the trailers, it looks like they include:

  • Mercury flights (going by the cast list)
  • His X-15 flights
  • His Gemini 8 accident and other Gemini flights
  • His LLRV accident
  • His family life/stress
  • Apollo 1 fire
  • His training for the landing
  • Assorted other episodes in between all of those.
  • His very tense/scary landing on the moon

And outside of the family life stuff, the rest of those could easily suck up huge chunks of time and the budget ($70 million).

This is about his life, and the landings have been covered extensively in one huge HBO mini-series and three major documentaries (with another one in production).  I'm cool if they leave some of the stuff for the Blu-ray or the other documentaries/mini-series.

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89675

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53 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Agree that if it just ends before the flag plant, then fine, I guess.   But if there’s any revisionist history here so they can try to deemphasize the nationalism of the space program and getting to the moon before the commie bastards did, all so they can make more money in China, then that’s some serious bullshit.   I would bet it’s the latter.

Like they will let Chinese peasants discover that we put a man on the moon.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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3 hours ago, Lat22 said:

Would you edit the flag raising out of a movie about the Battle for Iwo Jima? That’s pretty much what they did. That will be my last comment lest I trigger anybody. emoji16.png

 

As people have said, all depends on the context/edit, but I’m looking forward to the movie. 

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4th&Five

4th&Five 41557

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 “The filmmakers chose to focus on Neil looking back at the earth, his walk to Little West Crater, his unique, personal experience of completing this journey, a journey that has seen so many incredible highs and devastating lows.”

Chazelle similarly addressed the controversy at the Venice Film Festival, where First Man was met with acclaim following its debut.

“The flag being physically planted into the surface is one of several moments of the Apollo 11 lunar EVA that I chose not to focus upon,” Chazelle said. “To address the question of whether this was a political statement, the answer is no. My goal with this movie was to share with audiences the unseen, unknown aspects of America’s mission to the moon — particularly Neil Armstrong’s personal saga and what he may have been thinking and feeling during those famous few hours.”

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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46 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 “The filmmakers chose to focus on Neil looking back at the earth, his walk to Little West Crater, his unique, personal experience of completing this journey, a journey that has seen so many incredible highs and devastating lows.”

Chazelle similarly addressed the controversy at the Venice Film Festival, where First Man was met with acclaim following its debut.

“The flag being physically planted into the surface is one of several moments of the Apollo 11 lunar EVA that I chose not to focus upon,” Chazelle said. “To address the question of whether this was a political statement, the answer is no. My goal with this movie was to share with audiences the unseen, unknown aspects of America’s mission to the moon — particularly Neil Armstrong’s personal saga and what he may have been thinking and feeling during those famous few hours.”

Uh Huh ........

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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This flag "controversy" seriously pisses me off. 

I can't fucking stand when assholes like Mark Rubio, who hasn't seen the movie and has no context for his comments starts an unnecessary political shitstorm than then gets amplified by fucking rube nation on twitter and elsewhere.

You know what? There's only about a thousand documentaries and books out there about Apollo and the moon landing that shows the flag planting. There's also From the Earth to the Moon on HBO if you need to see it done via historical fiction.

FIRST MAN is clearly a Neil Armstrong biopic. If the filmmakers felt it was unnecessary to show the flag planting because (A) everyone knows they planted the flag because it's been in popular media for 50 years and (B) it didn't have anything to do Neil Armstrong's *personal story* -- then so be it.

If fucking Mark Rubio or anyone else wants to make a Neil Armstrong biopic that shows him planing the flag, then -- by all means -- they should go make it.  Until then they need to STFU about creative decisions that are made in a film that they HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

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On 8/31/2018 at 1:36 PM, Deej said:

Some of you guys are going to hate the parts showing us collaborating with the Soviets in our quest to jointly reach the moon. 

in a new show filming now for apple's new streaming service created by ron moore (battlestar), there is a flag, but it's a soviet flag.

"for all mankind" is what it's tentatively called.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89675

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54 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

in a new show filming now for apple's new streaming service created by ron moore (battlestar), there is a flag, but it's a soviet flag.

"for all mankind" is what it's tentatively called.

The people who would be upset with that alt-history series, would love it if somebody made Harry Turtledove's Southern Victory alt-history series.

I am genuinely curious what a true Ron Moore sci-fi series will look like, where dickheads at NBC/Universal didn't interfere.

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DougO

DougO 5249

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It takes a lot to get me into a theater these days because today's movies overwhelmingly suck shit. So I wasn't going to go anyway, but probably would see it on cable. Not really a Gosseling fan, either, so there's that. I can't think of an actor in this generation of actors who seems like would be good casting for the  part.

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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20 hours ago, DougO said:

It takes a lot to get me into a theater these days because today's movies overwhelmingly suck shit. So I wasn't going to go anyway, but probably would see it on cable. Not really a Gosseling fan, either, so there's that. I can't think of an actor in this generation of actors who seems like would be good casting for the  part.

Just curious - have you seen The Place Beyond the Pines, Half Nelson, Drive, The Big Short, Lars and the Real Girl, or The Nice Guys?

I feel like he was excellent in all of those. 

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Queen Bitch

Queen Bitch 1692

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Make sure and hit this shit on the biggest screen you can with great sound. Feels like 1960s Interstellar with a gorgeous score and fantastic cinematography. I wasn't expecting much, but came away really impressed. 

And make sure to point and laugh at the flag "controversy" at the end. /nocloakroom

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futureman

futureman 22464

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On 8/31/2018 at 4:40 PM, longhornmatt said:

The movie ends with the famous quote, “One small step for people of all genders - and since gender identity is in and of itself a fluid and artificial construct I will use the inclusive neutral pronoun ‘ze’ - and one giant leap for zekind.”

you jest, but give it time...

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Bama Llama

Bama Llama 1450

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Saw the actual landing and Armstong's first step on a small black and white TV in a crowded junior college cafeteria in Saint-Malo, France in the middle of the fucking night July 21, 1969 local time.  In the room were 50 or 60 French, German and American kids who had just graduated high school and were studying each other's languages and other attributes.  No one griped about Vietnam, Nixon or cops bashing heads at the Chicago convention.  Everyone, EVERYONE cheered and clapped when a human being set foot, sur la lune.  There's no flag controversy; fuck politics.  We thought then that we would all be visiting the moon routinely by now.  What happened?  Not feasible.

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RPM

RPM 26321

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3 minutes ago, Bama Llama said:

Saw the actual landing and Armstong's first step on a small black and white TV in a crowded junior college cafeteria in Saint-Malo, France in the middle of the fucking night July 21, 1969 local time.

Watched it live on a 17" Zenith B&W with Walter doing play by play. Had a t-shirt that showed the LEM  on the surface and said "The Eagle has landed!"

Wore that shirt until it literally fell apart.

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Chet Steadman

Chet Steadman 940

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Man, going in thinking I would love this movie and left think it was just okay.  Much more family/human-oriented and less “action” than Apollo 13 and The Right Stuff.  

Whoever said the music and cinematography feels like Interstellar is exactly right.  

Loved the Gemini and LEM landing though. The movie does a great job of showing the horrors of the early space missions.  Janet Armstrong’s quote to Deke Slaton was very fitting.  

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phdhorn

phdhorn 6224

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On 7/31/2018 at 12:06 PM, smwhorn said:

I'm in.

Dad worked at NASA for 37+ years.  

Looks good. For decades I've never quite figured out Neil Armstrong.  He seems almost too good to be true.  John Glenn-like in his courage and all, but absolutely the most bland, self-effacing astronaut of all of them.  When asked about "getting chosen" to be the #1 guy on the Moon, he simply said, "eh, it was my turn in the rotation."  That's it.  Just doing my job, sir.  There's also this amazing quote from the guy who Neil picked to do his biography (bolded mine):
 

Quote

He was never about himself, as the following personal anecdote shows. After word came out in 2002 that I was writing Armstrong's biography, actor/director Clint Eastwood hosted Neil and his wife Carol and me and my wife Peggy for a night's stay at his private golf club, Tehama, up in the hills above Carmel Bay in California; Clint was interested in making a Warner Brothers movie based on the book. The next morning, Eastwood invited Neil and I to play a round of golf with him. As I headed to the golf carts, I saw Neil taking his bag of clubs off of Clint's cart and putting my bag in its place. "What are you doing, Neil?" I said. "I figure Clint will have a lot more to talk to you about with the movie than he does with me," was Neil's reply. "I am sure that is not what Clint has in mind," I explained. "You need to be riding with Clint." Truth was, Neil could have cared less if a movie was ever made about his life. He knew that I cared and that's the only reason he had agreed to visit Eastwood. Not surprisingly, the two men didn't hit it off too well: Neil didn't like the violence in Clint's movies, and Clint apparently appreciated space cowboys more than he did real engineer-astronauts. (Eastwood gave up the film rights to Universal Studios, who last year also gave them up. Telling Neil's life story is just too nuanced for Hollywood, apparently.)

That last sentence is also telling... was the guy so "too good to be true" that Hollywood couldn't touch him for years (no doubt Aldrin, a much more colorful character, is an easy Hollywood role).  So I hope this movie can really portray him in as complete a fashion as allowed, even if some dirt - I've got to know what made this guy tick, because he seems almost Christlike.  It might have been "his turn" but man could the Fates have provided a better "number in the rotation?"   Also wondering what the death of the 3 astronauts in Apollo 1 did to the rotation?

Anyway I'll definitely see this.  I love any movie about NASA and all the stuff in the 60's and 70's.  Which brings me to what I quoted and some info badly needed to be known by Ramjet:

I interned at NASA as a high school student in the early 70's.  I was in a NSF program which put science-motivated students into various co-op type field sites.  I declared meteorology but there really was no specific weather site offered, so they put me at NASA in a department that analyzed hurricane tracks and winds.

I just wanted to say that the last Apollo mission (17) occurred, then I interned at Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

The Apollo program was ended shortly afterward and we've never sent a human out of earth orbit since.

I guess I fucked it up for everyone.  Sorry.

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18014

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Ahh yea, just finished reading what phdhorn had quoted, my bad.   Neil reminded me of Ben Afflacks character in The Accountant. 

 

 

 

I thought he was portrayed as slightly on spectrum for Aspergers but that seems to be Gosling’s go to acting move. I enjoyed it a lot but it won’t be for everyone. I thought they set up him at the crater extremely well without telegraphing it before hand.

 

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RamjetFDO

RamjetFDO 10575

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Posted (edited)

A few random thoughts - spoilered for now.

Spoiler
  • I wanted to like this ... I really really did want to like it.  I walked out feeling disappointed.
  • The visuals of spaceflight, and especially the lunar surface were spectacular. 
    • Although they went WAY TOO FAR OVERBOARD with the vibration camera... it ventured into JJ Abrams lens flare territory - almost laughable. 
    • It was unrealistic that there had been that much vibration during normal ascent, as the crew would never have been able to respond, read dials/gauges, or select buttons/options if they had been thrown around so much to where their vision was as bad as represented in this movie.
  • The (lack of) flag-planting kerfuffle was a useless distraction that never should have happened. 
    • Had Gosling not made a big deal out of it, no one would have noticed.
    • Flags on uniforms and the actual flag on the lunar surface were clearly visible.  The actual *planting* scene was not required for this story.  
  • There was just *nothing*, however, about this movie portrayal that made me interested in Armstrong as a human being, much less a semi-mythical central character of US Manned Spaceflight. 
    • To the contrary, they made him out to be a completely unlikable human being, rather than the quiet, personal man he was.
  • Even though there's no evidence of the final "crater scene" ever happening the way the movie portrayed, I'm fine with it.  That was the "one thing" about the movie character portrayal of Neil that I liked -- even though it was telegraphed from a mile away.  I was okay with it.
  • They glossed over SO MUCH of his life experience that truly made him who he was, in order to spend so many awkward closeups of Gosling's watery eyes and fluffy eyelashes.
    • Nothing was even said about his education (other than "he's a good engineer") nor his military pilot service. 
    • Nothing was said about how he got *into* the test flight program - just "bam, here's Neil flying the X-15 and almost crashing" ... and an un-acknowledged grumble from Chuck Yeager as they stood on the dry lakebed.  There was a side comment about "multiple incidents" in a short timeframe, but those comments were just left there to die on the lakebed without any exposition or follow-up as to why they were important.
    • Lots of events that led up to Neil's selection as Apollo 11 CDR were not even mentioned - there was nothing really that gave the viewer any indication as to *WHY* Neil was selected for this incredible responsibility.
  • When Deke (best character of the movie, played by Kyle Chandler) told Neil of his selection as Apollo 11 CDR, I think that the paper towel dispenser hanging on that bathroom wall showed more of an acting response that Gosling did.  Neil's actual response (documented several other places) was far more interesting - still reserved, per his character, but not the blank Gosling stare.
  • There were SO MANY technical flaws that I was distracted -- one of the most egregious was in the pre-lunar landing scene, when Eagle was still docked to Columbia.  Collins radios that he was "maneuvering to undocking attitude".  There was a *continuous* rocket noise while they did the rotation, with a simultaneous rocket noise shut off and rotation stop.  That's not the way Sir Isaac described things.  There should have been one "pulse" at the beginning and one "pulse" at the end, not a continuous "roar".
  • There were other technical flaws throughout that really took away from the story.
  • Unlike "Apollo 13", "The Martian", and other space movies ... I doubt I'll ever watch this one again.  I was that disappointed.

 

 

Edited by RamjetFDO
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futureman

futureman 22464

Posted
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, RamjetFDO said:

A few random thoughts - spoilered for now.

  Hide contents
  • I wanted to like this ... I really really did want to like it.  I walked out feeling disappointed.
  • The visuals of spaceflight, and especially the lunar surface were spectacular. 
    • Although they went WAY TOO FAR OVERBOARD with the vibration camera... it ventured into JJ Abrams lens flare territory - almost laughable. 
    • It was unrealistic that there had been that much vibration during normal ascent, as the crew would never have been able to respond, read dials/gauges, or select buttons/options if they had been thrown around so much to where their vision was as bad as represented in this movie.
  • The (lack of) flag-planting kerfuffle was a useless distraction that never should have happened. 
    • Had Gosling not made a big deal out of it, no one would have noticed.
    • Flags on uniforms and the actual flag on the lunar surface were clearly visible.  The actual *planting* scene was not required for this story.  
  • There was just *nothing*, however, about this movie portrayal that made me interested in Armstrong as a human being, much less a semi-mythical central character of US Manned Spaceflight. 
    • To the contrary, they made him out to be a completely unlikable human being, rather than the quiet, personal man he was.
  • Even though there's no evidence of the final "crater scene" ever happening the way the movie portrayed, I'm fine with it.  That was the "one thing" about the movie character portrayal of Neil that I liked -- even though it was telegraphed from a mile away.  I was okay with it.
  • They glossed over SO MUCH of his life experience that truly made him who he was, in order to spend so many awkward closeups of Gosling's watery eyes and fluffy eyelashes.
    • Nothing was even said about his education (other than "he's a good engineer") nor his military pilot service. 
    • Nothing was said about how he got *into* the test flight program - just "bam, here's Neil flying the X-15 and almost crashing" ... and an un-acknowledged grumble from Chuck Yeager as they stood on the dry lakebed.  There was a side comment about "multiple incidents" in a short timeframe, but those comments were just left there to die on the lakebed without any exposition or follow-up as to why they were important.
    • Lots of events that led up to Neil's selection as Apollo 11 CDR were not even mentioned - there was nothing really that gave the viewer any indication as to *WHY* Neil was selected for this incredible responsibility.
  • When Deke (best character of the movie, played by Kyle Chandler) told Neil of his selection as Apollo 11 CDR, I think that the paper towel dispenser hanging on that bathroom wall showed more of an acting response that Gosling did.  Neil's actual response (documented several other places) was far more interesting - still reserved, per his character, but not the blank Gosling stare.
  • There were SO MANY technical flaws that I was distracted -- one of the most egregious was in the pre-lunar landing scene, when Eagle was still docked to Columbia.  Collins radios that he was "maneuvering to undocking attitude".  There was a *continuous* rocket noise while they did the rotation, with a simultaneous rocket noise shut off and rotation stop.  That's not the way Sir Isaac described things.  There should have been one "pulse" at the beginning and one "pulse" at the end, not a continuous "roar".
  • There were other technical flaws throughout that really took away from the story.
  • Unlike "Apollo 13", "The Martian", and other space movies ... I doubt I'll ever watch this one again.  I was that disappointed.

 

 

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Edited by futureman
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