NBA 2022-2023 Season Thread

[ztejas 43548]

Westbrook with 7 turnovers and 6 fouls in his first Clippers' action. 

Have fun with that Kawhi.

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

6 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

nobody else just watched that game? good lawd.

Just watched some highlights.  Haven't seen final scores like that since the late 80s Doug Moe Nuggets. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18594]

After last night, the kings currently own the highest net offensive rating in NBA history. The nuggets are #2. Celtics are #4. Every other team in the top 20 other than the 2019 warriors (#18) is from this season or 2021. The 1987 Lakers check in at #22 and the 1992 bulls at #25. Every other team is from the current era. I mean the fucking 2023 blazers with a 28-31 record have the 11th best offensive net rating ever.

I'm not saying the NBA is broken, but the NBA is broken. 

People talking about LeBron's scoring record being untouchable? Not if the game keeps going in this direction. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

LeBrons scoring record will be broken. Scoring wasn't even his #1 priority. Would bet on a guy 6 foot 6 or taller that can stay healthy for 20 years. 

NBA offense seems more simple than ever now that perimeter defense is nearly impossible. Mix of a 3 point contest and easy shots within 5 feet of the hoop.

[ztejas 43548]

Idk if it's broken but it's become a worse product and college has become a better product over the past 5 years. I obviously appreciate the latter but there's no reason it needs to happen at the expense of the NBA. 

2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

People talking about LeBron's scoring record being untouchable? Not if the game keeps going in this direction. 

Meh. Whatever LeBron ends up at won't be touched by anyone. I think someone else could maybe break Kareem's mark but probably not. No one plays 80 games/season anymore. 

(It would take Luka playing 70 games per season averaging 35 per game for 12 straight seasons to get to Kareem. He has played 70+ games once and never averaged 35)

Edited February 25, 2023 by ztejas

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

4 hours ago, ztejas said:

Westbrook with 7 turnovers and 6 fouls in his first Clippers' action. 

Have fun with that Kawhi.

Westbrook raised the defensive intensity at least. Clips only gave up 176 points.

Kawhi gonna need a month long break after having to play 46 minutes. 

Ben Simmons out for multiple weeks possibly AGAIN. What a sack of shit.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

51 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Meh. Whatever LeBron ends up at won't be touched by anyone. I think someone else could maybe break Kareem's mark but probably not. No one plays 80 games/season anymore. 

(It would take Luka playing 70 games per season averaging 35 per game for 12 straight seasons to get to Kareem. He has played 70+ games once and never averaged 35)

Yeah not sure I would bet on anyone currently in the NBA today to break Lebrons mark but scoring is up. The stars will align eventually.

[ChickenSandwich 9855]

Removing the one and done rule will help

[BigOrange1 6473]

holy shit @ embiid almost pulling that off.

[Fastbreak 3996]

holy shit @ embiid almost pulling that off.

Was crazy. But Tatum showed he is the mvp.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4807]

Awesome game. Joel is a monster

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Embiid was great. What a talent. 

[ChickenSandwich 9855]

White > Smart IMO for Boston

[UpperWestside 6190]

On 2/25/2023 at 10:13 AM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

After last night, the kings currently own the highest net offensive rating in NBA history. The nuggets are #2. Celtics are #4. Every other team in the top 20 other than the 2019 warriors (#18) is from this season or 2021. The 1987 Lakers check in at #22 and the 1992 bulls at #25. Every other team is from the current era. I mean the fucking 2023 blazers with a 28-31 record have the 11th best offensive net rating ever.

I'm not saying the NBA is broken, but the NBA is broken. 

People talking about LeBron's scoring record being untouchable? Not if the game keeps going in this direction. 

Scoring has been cheapened. That much is obvious. Some guys are going to get a rude awakening in free agency when they go looking for a big contract based on their scoring average. I did not enjoy the early 90’s combat basketball era and right now the pendulum has swung way too far in the opposite direction. I like high-scoring basketball, but if the mediocre Blazers have an historically good offense then yes things have gone off the rails.

[conVINCEd 21470]

On 2/25/2023 at 9:13 AM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

After last night, the kings currently own the highest net offensive rating in NBA history. The nuggets are #2. Celtics are #4. Every other team in the top 20 other than the 2019 warriors (#18) is from this season or 2021. The 1987 Lakers check in at #22 and the 1992 bulls at #25. Every other team is from the current era. I mean the fucking 2023 blazers with a 28-31 record have the 11th best offensive net rating ever.

I'm not saying the NBA is broken, but the NBA is broken. 

People talking about LeBron's scoring record being untouchable? Not if the game keeps going in this direction. 

The problem is that 3’s are worth 50% more and they aren’t anywhere close to being 50% more difficult.  Make them worth 2.5 instead of 3 and it would sort itself out pretty quickly.

[aggie08 21559]

22 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

The problem is that 3’s are worth 50% more and they aren’t anywhere close to being 50% more difficult.  Make them worth 2.5 instead of 3 and it would sort itself out pretty quickly.

Have you talked to many Americans lately? That's way too much math.

"My team is down by 8 and a half. How many possessions is that? 11??"

Edited February 26, 2023 by aggie08

[closetohumping 17482]

So if clips scored 175 I’m gonna assume Russ got the triple double?

[Mittens 8312]

17 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Was crazy. But Tatum showed he is the mvp.

 

[CurlyDumps 4485]

 

 

 

[Aqua Buddha 14624]

4 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

Scoring has been cheapened. That much is obvious. Some guys are going to get a rude awakening in free agency when they go looking for a big contract based on their scoring average. I did not enjoy the early 90’s combat basketball era and right now the pendulum has swung way too far in the opposite direction. I like high-scoring basketball, but if the mediocre Blazers have an historically good offense then yes things have gone off the rails.

 

On 2/25/2023 at 9:13 AM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

After last night, the kings currently own the highest net offensive rating in NBA history. The nuggets are #2. Celtics are #4. Every other team in the top 20 other than the 2019 warriors (#18) is from this season or 2021. The 1987 Lakers check in at #22 and the 1992 bulls at #25. Every other team is from the current era. I mean the fucking 2023 blazers with a 28-31 record have the 11th best offensive net rating ever.

I'm not saying the NBA is broken, but the NBA is broken. 

People talking about LeBron's scoring record being untouchable? Not if the game keeps going in this direction. 

I know it's popular opinion to bash current NBA defense but I've had a partial season ticket package to the Thunder the past two years, which means I've watched a lot of guys who are borderline NBA guys on both teams.  I've been surprised that all of these guys on the roster can shoot now.  Even 5-10 years ago, you'd have defensive specialists with very limited offensive skills.  Not anymore.  Guys from the G League can shoot.  Big men can shoot.  Wings can shoot.  Every guy on the roster can shoot.  It's why there is a lot of parity right now.  A bad team has a moderate chance of beating a good team just by being good shooters.  Also, there is no cheating on defense anymore.  When all of the guys can shoot, you have to guard them all.

[Pam Cummings 9684]

Lake show might be dangerous, they have guys that can hit shots and can play well off of their 2 stars. Vanderbilt has been a nice find. AD playing like an elite 2-way player. Etc.

[closetohumping 17482]

57 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

 

 

 

Man this Guy aged

[Message Board User 12396]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Man this Guy aged

Well, when you realize that you have over $100 million committed to the team next year before you even think of re-signing Wood and Kyrie, I'd look like that too.

Not sure how you can fix this as they look like for a quick 4-0 or 4-1 exit in the first round.  Does today's debacle make the Mavs 1-4 when Kyrie + Luka play?  and the one win was against the tanking Spurs so that doesn't count.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8823]

Lake show might be dangerous, they have guys that can hit shots and can play well off of their 2 stars. Vanderbilt has been a nice find. AD playing like an elite 2-way player. Etc.

Lebron reporting to hear his ankle pop and now has a limp

[Mitch Cumsteen 18594]

Dame has 41 tonight. It's halftime. 

[Fastbreak 3996]

35 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Dame has 41 tonight. It's halftime. 

only 9 in the 3rd --- weak...

[Radical Larry 28664]

Dame time

[shadow_operative 15932]

On 2/25/2023 at 10:09 PM, Fastbreak said:

Was crazy. But Tatum showed he is the mvp.

[shadow_operative 15932]

once again with Dame, i just can't bring myself to care about anything he does, and i actually like him. i just can't find any energy to care about the exploits of a guy whose entire career goal appears to be to accrue stats and get paid, with no desire to win anything. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

anyone who doesn't have jokic as their mvp simply can't be taken seriously. best player since prime lebron. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

jokic with the steal and then the alley to give himself another triple double and to clinch the game in OT. i'm still so fired up by the disrespect towards this guy. it blows my mind that actual nba fans and players alike seem to dismiss the guy on a daily basis. crazy. he's the new wilt + the best passer ever and nobody watches him, rates him, or gives him his respect. a shining example of basketball fans being the dumbest, most ignorant fans when it comes to the sport they follow.

now if only i could get literally anyone to pronounce this man's name correctly.

[Fastbreak 3996]

3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

anyone who doesn't have jokic as their mvp simply can't be taken seriously. best player since prime lebron. 

Jokic is great, he is having a fantastic year.  But Tatum and Giannis are both above him. Giannis might be having the greatest defensive season of all time (ex, on pick and roll plays he is #1 in the league against the ballhandler AND the roller) and he is putting up numbers on offense not seen since Wilt).

it is a 3 horse race IMO with Embid needing a monster home stretch.

[shadow_operative 15932]

jokic already has the greatest offensive season ever under his belt, and this season will be right up there next to it. nobody has the offensive impact on the game that jokic does- nobody. he's so clearly the best player in the nba it's not even up for debate. 

giannis's defense is great and all, but it's not going to win milwaukee a playoff series, or even a playoff game to be honest. scoring 40 while nabbing 15 rebounds and dropping 12 dimes on 65% shooting from the field is going to win denver a lot of playoff games/series, and is something jokic has already done despite being short handed through multiple playoff runs. 

i'm sorry, but if at this point you aren't saying that jokic is unequivocally the best basketball player on the planet as well as this season's mvp then you're either just not paying attention or you just want to find any reason not to give it to him. i'm sorry he's not american; i'm sorry he doesn't play for the lakers; i'm sorry that 90% of nba fans are asleep and/or doing something else during all of his games. he's the least flawed superstar player in basketball, and his offensive genius transcends whatever cute story jayson tatum has going or the fact that giannis is in his own right completely unbelievable. jokic is an alien, and only giannis and luka are even in the same class. if luka gets in better shape and learns how to defend, or if giannis learns to really shoot then either one of those guys can become his equal. until then, jokic stands alone.

Edited February 27, 2023 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

imagine it being 2009 and someone is trying to tell you that anyone other than lebron is the best player in the world. ok now imagine that 90% of the people you talk to are all making that same argument. that's pretty close to the reality i'm living in right now. is nikola jokic 2009 lebron? no. but is he empirically *and* statistically the best player in the nba beyond a reasonable doubt, a la 2009 lebron? i say yes. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by shadow_operative
a word

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

 

[Pam Cummings 9684]

If Jokic is so clearly the best player and his team is fully healthy and they have some really good players, then why are they 4th best odds to win the title? They are the #1 seed in the west. Could it be that Jokic isn't that great of a defender and Vegas knows this can be exploited in a playoff series? I have a really hard time calling a guy who isn't a 2-way player the best in the game. Prime LeBron was an elite defensive player.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Message Board User 12396]

6 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i'm still so fired up by the disrespect towards this guy. 

Dude - the guy has won two straight MVPs.  

I guess I’m just missing this rampant disrespect towards Jokic that you’re seeing.

 

 

[Pam Cummings 9684]

5 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Dude - the guy has won two straight MVPs.  

I guess I’m just missing this rampant disrespect towards Jokic that you’re seeing.

 

 

If anything it's a bit disrespectful to the other great players in the NBA to say Jokic is "unequivocally the best player on the planet", as if nobody even comes close. There are players that you could pick over Jokic if you were building a team from scratch and there would be nothing wrong with any of the reasoning behind it.

[shadow_operative 15932]

4 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Dude - the guy has won two straight MVPs.  

I guess I’m just missing this rampant disrespect towards Jokic that you’re seeing.

 

 

i don't know how you could miss it. talk to everyone you know who follows the sport and ask them who the best player is. watch any talk show, listen to any podcast, hell, watch the all star draft. luka, embiid, steph, kd, giannis- all of them are seen as better players than jokic by the overwhelming majority of people who talk about basketball, professionally or otherwise. the fact that he's the back ti back mvp and this is still the case tells you everything about the disrespect towards him. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

34 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

If Jokic is so clearly the best player and his team is fully healthy and they have some really good players, then why are they 4th best odds to win the title? They are the #1 seed in the west. Could it be that Jokic isn't that great of a defender and Vegas knows this can be exploited in a playoff series? I have a really hard time calling a guy who isn't a 2-way player the best in the game. Prime LeBron was an elite defensive player.

 

betting odds? you're citing gambling odds as evidence that he isn't the best player in the league?

also, this isn't the 90's. who cares about being a two way player when every game is a race to 140? jokic is only the best offensive player in the league three years running according to essentially every advanced metric-

in fact according to the advanced metrics Jokic is already among the greatest offensive players ever, on track to possibly be *the* greatest offensive player ever. no one in the league has an offensive skill set to match his, and only luka is even really close. he's currently averaging a triple double on a 63/39/83 slash line for the best team in the west, and you think he's not the best player in basketball because his team doesn't have the best sports betting odds to win the title? thank you for driving home my point. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by shadow_operative

[closetohumping 17482]

Cowherd. Four active players would be among his 12 greatest ever.  
 

lebron

steph

giannis

KD

Edited February 27, 2023 by closetohumping

[ztejas 43548]

Jokic is having the best season again and will win MVP but I'm not taking him over Giannis in a playoff series. 

8 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

once again with Dame, i just can't bring myself to care about anything he does, and i actually like him. i just can't find any energy to care about the exploits of a guy whose entire career goal appears to be to accrue stats and get paid, with no desire to win anything. 

I'm getting to this point myself. He hasn't played on a contender one time in his career. He's made one conference Finals and two semis and lost those series 4-0, 4-1 and 4-1. Outside of that he has five first round exits. He's expressed no desire to leave Portland despite it being obvious that they're never going to put a roster around him good enough that he can win with. So he had 41 points in a half. Cool. His team is below .500. It's like a slightly better post-KD Westbrook impression he's doing. 

He's a great player but he's trading this weird loyalty thing and a massive contract extension for a shot to actually go down as an all-timer. People are going to remember him as a good player that never won anything. Not as some folklore legend that stayed loyal to his franchise. You don't have to shamelessly ring-chase but you can at least put yourself in a better position to compete. 

[Pam Cummings 9684]

1 minute ago, shadow_operative said:

betting odds? you're citing gambling odds as evidence that he isn't the best player in the league?

also, this isn't the 90's. who cares about being a two way player when every game is a race to 140? jokic is only the best offensive player in the league three years running according to essentially every advanced metric-

in fact according to the advanced metrics Jokic is already among the greatest offensive players ever, on track to be *the* greatest offensive player ever. he's currently averaging a triple double on a 63/39/83 slash line for the best team in the west, and you think he's not the best player in basketball because his team doesn't have the best sports betting odds to win the title? thank you for driving home my point. 

Yeah according to advanced metrics Jokic is the GOAT. Better than Jordan and LeBron. Do we really believe that or does maybe certain advanced metrics paint a deceptive picture and overrate offensive efficiency? And of course i value defense. That's why i would take Giannis. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

As far as Vegas odds, of course they are notable. You have a 3 time in a row MVP not being the overwhelming fav to win it all. Not even second best odds. So maybe Vegas is just really stupid and loves losing money. Go lay a bet down.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4807]

23 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i don't know how you could miss it. talk to everyone you know who follows the sport and ask them who the best player is. watch any talk show, listen to any podcast, hell, watch the all star draft. luka, embiid, steph, kd, giannis- all of them are seen as better players than jokic by the overwhelming majority of people who talk about basketball, professionally or otherwise. the fact that he's the back ti back mvp and this is still the case tells you everything about the disrespect towards him. 

You need to get smarter friends and stop watching day time sports tv.

[ztejas 43548]

Jokic is having the best season again and will win MVP but I'm not taking him over Giannis in a playoff series. 

8 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

once again with Dame, i just can't bring myself to care about anything he does, and i actually like him. i just can't find any energy to care about the exploits of a guy whose entire career goal appears to be to accrue stats and get paid, with no desire to win anything. 

I'm getting to this point myself. He hasn't played on a contender one time in his career. He's made one conference Finals and two semis and lost those series 4-0, 4-1 and 4-1. Outside of that he has five first round exits. He's expressed no desire to leave Portland despite it being obvious that they're never going to put a roster around him good enough that he can win with. So he had 41 points in a half. Cool. His team is below .500. It's like a slightly better post-KD Westbrook impression he's doing. 

He's a great player but he's trading this weird loyalty thing and a massive contract extension for a shot to actually go down as an all-timer. People are going to remember him as a good player that never won anything. Not as some folklore legend that stayed loyal to his franchise. You don't have to shamelessly ring-chase but you can at least put yourself in a better position to compete. 

[closetohumping 17482]

Russ scored 17 while only taking ten shots.  Maybe he's finally changing.

[Pam Cummings 9684]

I'm with yall on Dame. Imagine being loyal to a team that has ruined a good few careers with inept medical staff and overall cheapness.

[Fastbreak 3996]

i don't know how you could miss it. talk to everyone you know who follows the sport and ask them who the best player is. watch any talk show, listen to any podcast, hell, watch the all star draft. luka, embiid, steph, kd, giannis- all of them are seen as better players than jokic by the overwhelming majority of people who talk about basketball, professionally or otherwise. the fact that he's the back ti back mvp and this is still the case tells you everything about the disrespect towards him. 

Kevin O’Conner just last week said it was “ludicrous” and “ridiculous” that Jokic was leading the mvp race over Giannis.

If Jokic wins I will be happy, I really like him. But it’s not a slam dunk.

[aggie08 21559]

Probably not a great sign with regards to NBA scoring that I read Dame tied the NBA season high, and I couldn't for the life of me remember who else scored 71 points this year. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18594]

Jokic is incredible -- for sure my favorite guy in the league to watch. His mind for the game is absolutely next level. He beats you the way Magic used to beat you. There are 3-4 times a game where I end up pausing the game and rewinding it. Like this one from last night. I'm expecting the dribble hand off and he drops this to the guy slipping the screen and cutting to the basket. So good. 

I think he should win the MVP again. His teams have been snakebit by injury in the playoffs. I really hope that Porter and Murray stay healthy this year so we can really see what they are all about.

Two things though: 
1. I can't take anybody's offensive numbers seriously in today's NBA. It's almost like the steroid era in baseball when you're trying to put things into historical context. The game is juiced right now, not the players. They need to allow some sort of handchecking on the perimeter or maybe angle the three point line where the corner three is now a two or maybe actually enforce a moving screen? I dunno, but they need to do something.
2. I still think the game is going to slow down significantly when the playoffs start. They are going to allow more physical play. The guys are going to give better effort on defense and play with more intensity. So when it really matters, defense is going to matter. And Giannis is next level on defense. In a seven game series, I'm still taking Giannis over Jokic until proven otherwise.