NBA 2022-2023 Season Thread

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

2 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Would you take prime, uninjured Joel over David Robinson in his prime?

Great question. I think they both played in the wrong eras. David Robinson would be an absolute terror in today's pace and space game. He ran the court better than any big man ever. He would be a small ball lineup destroyer. Plus, he would probably have developed his range out to the three point line. Likewise, Embiid would have thrived back in the day exploiting the illegal defense rules in the post like Hakeem did. Embiid is definitely better / more polished offensively. Robinson never truly developed a post game. Robinson was more dominant defensively and I might give him the overall edge because of that. But then again, I'm biased. It's close either way.  

[SilasCoade 2622]

You go with Robinson over Embiid to punish small ball lineups even after acknowledging Robinson's post game was not his strong suit? I dunno, man. I'm not sure Embiid has the physicality to endure the 90s game but he's an excellent defender and his range on offense gives him a decisive edge. I agree that Embiid is not a fit for a team looking to run the way Robinson could be in his prime.

[Baboontyme 2814]

The crazy thing about Joel is imagine how good he would be if he got into shape and tried 100% of the time. He's this good and he's not in top shape. I know he is banged up, but he could do a lot for himself if he really dedicated his offseason to getting into the best shape of his career. So could Doncic. I listened to a pod with Joel last year, can't remember if it was OM3 or one of the other ones, and he is so fucking talented that the guy basically watched 30 minutes of Kobe highlights and then went out and incorporated them into his game. Not like over the course of 3 years, like in a day. 

[SilasCoade 2622]

Embiid is not nearly in the fitness hole that Doncic is. Luka is costing his team 10 wins a year and shortening his career by 3-5 years by not focusing on conditioning.

[closetohumping 17453]

3 minutes ago, SilasCoade said:

Embiid is not nearly in the fitness hole that Doncic is. Luka is costing his team 10 wins a year and shortening his career by 3-5 years by not focusing on conditioning.

True but Luka rests on defense so he won't gas out as fast as you may think.

[Pam Cummings 9646]

I still am completely baffled as to why the Mavs thought trading their depth for Kyrie was a good idea.

[SilasCoade 2622]

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

True but Luka rests on defense so he won't gas out as fast as you may think.

That's where the 10 wins get left on the table. 

[closetohumping 17453]

3 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I still am completely baffled as to why the Mavs thought trading their depth for Kyrie was a good idea.

After Brunson and kristops left, luka needed another Robin to shoulder the blame.  

[ztejas 43504]

3 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

The crazy thing about Joel is imagine how good he would be if he got into shape and tried 100% of the time. He's this good and he's not in top shape. I know he is banged up, but he could do a lot for himself if he really dedicated his offseason to getting into the best shape of his career. So could Doncic. I listened to a pod with Joel last year, can't remember if it was OM3 or one of the other ones, and he is so fucking talented that the guy basically watched 30 minutes of Kobe highlights and then went out and incorporated them into his game. Not like over the course of 3 years, like in a day. 

You think he's both out of shape and not trying? He's done a lot to get in better shape over the past few years. I mean comparing him to Luka is insulting. Embiid is averaging 33/10 plus a steal and almost 2 blocks a game. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

11 minutes ago, SilasCoade said:

You go with Robinson over Embiid to punish small ball lineups even after acknowledging Robinson's post game was not his strong suit? I dunno, man. I'm not sure Embiid has the physicality to endure the 90s game but he's an excellent defender and his range on offense gives him a decisive edge. I agree that Embiid is not a fit for a team looking to run the way Robinson could be in his prime.

I was actually thinking more defensively -- that you could switch Robinson on to any small ball lineup 1-5 and he would be quick enough to stay in front of them and make their life hell.

But nobody plays through the post now on offense, anyway. He would be much more lethal offensively as a screener / rim runner against a small ball lineup in today's game surrounded by three point shooters. His problem was never finishing, per se. He was great around the rim.  It was creating offense for himself on the block with an array of post moves. That wasn't him. He was always great off the dribble with a reliable mid-range game that you had to respect. In today's game, he would be a much tougher cover facing up against bigger / slower defenders and taking them off the dribble where they can't put their hands on you. 

[Mittens 8287]

I'd take healthy Embiid over healthy Robinson every day, every era, without question.  

Career:

Best (scoring) Year:

[closetohumping 17453]

20 minutes ago, Mittens said:

I'd take healthy Embiid over healthy Robinson every day, every era, without question.  

Career:

Best (scoring) Year:

Next level.  When does embiid pass the dream?

[Brothahorn 10087]

If you have to qualify it with words like 'healthy' then it's not really a competition. It's feelings. Part of being a great pro is availability. Jordan isn't Jordan if he can't stay on the court, LeBron isn't LeBron if he can't stay on the court. Availability matters. Give me the Admiral. Because if I need him, he will be there.

[Baboontyme 2814]

7 hours ago, ztejas said:

You think he's both out of shape and not trying? He's done a lot to get in better shape over the past few years. I mean comparing him to Luka is insulting. Embiid is averaging 33/10 plus a steal and almost 2 blocks a game. 

He's not out of shape per se I suppose. But he's not even close to in as good of shape as he could be in. And of course he tries some of the time but watch him. His team plays 4 on 5 often because he doesn't hustle down the court or takes himself out of plays, for example. Again he's banged up but he plays like that all the time. He doesn't have to be in Bron or Giannis level shape but imagine if he was in say, Sabonis shape or even Jarret Allen shape. I love Jo and I think he deserves MVP and I hope he does win it. But I think he could be better, which is a scary thought. Just my opinion. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

2 hours ago, Mittens said:

I'd take healthy Embiid over healthy Robinson every day, every era, without question.  

Career:

Best (scoring) Year:

It's not a good career comparison when you include the last couple of years of Robinson's career when he was on the downside and playing through back injuries. Embiid if he lasts that long will ultimately have those kinds of years too and it will pull his numbers down. Robinson also deferred to Duncan later in his career so both his scoring and rebound numbers suffered. But he did it for the sake of winning. That's what the game is all about. So fucking what if you put up great numbers but don't win shit. 

Also I'd like to see the comparison to Robinson in 1995 which was (without looking at the numbers  but just going off memory) probably his best year. 1994 was when he led the league in scoring but  for sure not his best or most efficient year playing for that idiot John Lucas. Again I'm doing this from memory but you may be cherry picking stats here. 

But most importantly, the raw numbers are bullshit in an era when teams are scoring in the 115 ppg range every night vs 80 or 90 every night.  Look at the per 100 possession numbers for their careers that even includes the end of Robinson's career.  Same offensive rating and David shits on him defensively.

Again I'll stand by my original post. It's close and Ebiid is a great and special player, but I give Robinson the slight edge because of his defense. 

[Mittens 8287]

2 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Next level.  When does embiid pass the dream?

Olajuwon sits at 26,946 pts.

Embiid is at 10,697 today, averaging 1,528 per season.  At that rate, sometime around 2033.  If he could stay at his current rate around 2K/yr, then 2031.  So...never.

 

 

 

[SilasCoade 2622]

29 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It's not a good career comparison when you include the last couple of years of Robinson's career when he was on the downside and playing through back injuries. Embiid if he lasts that long will ultimately have those kinds of years too and it will pull his numbers down. Robinson also deferred to Duncan later in his career so both his scoring and rebound numbers suffered. But he did it for the sake of winning. That's what the game is all about. So fucking what if you put up great numbers but don't win shit. 

Also I'd like to see the comparison to Robinson in 1995 which was (without looking at the numbers  but just going off memory) probably his best year. 1994 was when he led the league in scoring but  for sure not his best or most efficient year playing for that idiot John Lucas. Again I'm doing this from memory but you may be cherry picking stats here. 

But most importantly, the raw numbers are bullshit in an era when teams are scoring in the 115 ppg range every night vs 80 or 90 every night.  Look at the per 100 possession numbers for their careers that even includes the end of Robinson's career.  Same offensive rating and David shits on him defensively.

Again I'll stand by my original post. It's close and Ebiid is a great and special player, but I give Robinson the slight edge because of his defense. 

You're right that it's close but I think you're overestimating the defense gap. When he's engaged embiid is very good defensively even on smaller perimeter guys. Not saying they are equal but I think the gap on defense is smaller than the gap on offense, which favors Joel.

[HtownHorn 14748]

8 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

I still am completely baffled as to why the Mavs thought trading their depth for Kyrie was a good idea.

I am still baffled they gave up a 1st for Christian Woods.

[ztejas 43504]

47 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

He's not out of shape per se I suppose. But he's not even close to in as good of shape as he could be in. And of course he tries some of the time but watch him. His team plays 4 on 5 often because he doesn't hustle down the court or takes himself out of plays, for example. Again he's banged up but he plays like that all the time. He doesn't have to be in Bron or Giannis level shape but imagine if he was in say, Sabonis shape or even Jarret Allen shape. I love Jo and I think he deserves MVP and I hope he does win it. But I think he could be better, which is a scary thought. Just my opinion. 

I think it's difficult to evaluate without knowing what is actually realistic with his frame and body type and all of the injuries he's had. It's possible that he has come close to maxing out his stamina at this point in his career. 

It seems like he could lose some weight and play lighter but that doesn't always make guys better players. I know that he's gotten a lot more serious about his fitness and I know that he has a really solid work ethic. I genuinely think he's doing almost everything he can to play the minutes he is - and that may include taking plays off. 

[LTtxfan 49304]

Clippers defeat lakers...   125-118

Not sure why Mavs aren't tanking, but they beat the kings tonight. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

[closetohumping 17453]

[ztejas 43504]

What a fucking comeback by the Pels last night. They just refuse to go away. These play ins are going to be great.

[Pam Cummings 9646]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Can we stop with this please, this is dumb. This is the 2023 NBA thread, it's about to be playoff time, and we're talking about Mario Chalmers and Michael fucking Beasley? Unless Mike is selling his team anytime soon he has no relevance here.

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

21 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

I still am completely baffled as to why the Mavs thought trading their depth for Kyrie was a good idea.

Never have been a Kyrie fanboy but in theory- Mavs were locked into a fairly mediocre uninspiring roster and have no great secondary assets like the Suns had in a Mikal Bridges to trade for a truly elite disgruntled superstar. Settling for being a 5th or 6th seed with Luka is unconscionable to most Mavs fans which helps dial up the desperation. Dinwiddie and Finney-Smith are both 30 years old so no real hope either might turn into a perennial all-star. Could have been a step back to take two steps forward type situation. 

At this point the Mavs have to pray Kyrie signs a 4 year max (lulz) and then can flip him for a better asset in 2024 or so.

Believe most casuals overrate how valuable a 'walking bucket' alone is in today's NBA. Even awful teams can fill it up these days against bad defenses. Getting strong vibes of an even worse version of the Lebron first Cavs stint.

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Can we stop with this please, this is dumb. This is the 2023 NBA thread, it's about to be playoff time, and we're talking about Mario Chalmers and Michael fucking Beasley? Unless Mike is selling his team anytime soon he has no relevance here.

 

i like hearing stories like this, and as you said this is the nba thread, so...

[PittsburghTiger 6192]

16 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

If you have to qualify it with words like 'healthy' then it's not really a competition. It's feelings. Part of being a great pro is availability. Jordan isn't Jordan if he can't stay on the court, LeBron isn't LeBron if he can't stay on the court. Availability matters. Give me the Admiral. Because if I need him, he will be there.

That's why possible games needs to be added to the stat line.

I think Joel has had a possible 574, and played 393, regular season games since 2017, since he also missed his first two seasons. He's awesome but, not yet Robinson-level. Eight times, out of 14 seasons, Robinson played at least 80 regular season games

Edited April 6, 2023 by PittsburghTiger

[Pam Cummings 9646]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

i like hearing stories like this, and as you said this is the nba thread, so...

It would help if the story was actually true and something Chalmers actually said, instead of a troll job from a twitter account called ballsack sports.

[aggie08 21505]

9 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

It would help if the story was actually true and something Chalmers actually said, instead of a troll job from a twitter account called ballsack sports.

Also, there are dozens of legitimate cases to be make for why MJ is better than LeBron. "He's too competitive to let some scrub beat him in a random ass 1v1 game" as told by Mario Chalmers doesn't really resonate.

[Pam Cummings 9646]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Also, there are dozens of legitimate cases to be make for why MJ is better than LeBron. "He's too competitive to let some scrub beat him in a random ass 1v1 game" as told by Mario Chalmers doesn't really resonate.

Yeah when i looked at it again it was like, there's no way if this was true that we'd barely be hearing about it.

[Chewbacca 7780]

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

must-see TV:

[Dutchrudder 11143]

Every sport has the issue with teams resting starters once their playoff seeding is determined. It's something they earn by being the best over the first 79 games. 

[Chewbacca 7780]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

must-see TV:

They should sit every starter tonight.  That's the luxury of clinching the #1 spot.

[Blotto 23560]

Ragtag bunch from Denver giving the Suns all they want. Nugs up 1, 8 minutes to go. 

[ztejas 43504]

8 hours ago, Blotto said:

Ragtag bunch from Denver giving the Suns all they want. Nugs up 1, 8 minutes to go. 

Suns aren't playing for anything - just trying to build as much chemistry as they can before the playoffs.

That said Denver plays great team basketball regardless of who is on the court. I really like them going into the playoffs. 

How about Chris Paul banging in 7 triples?

[Reynolds Woodcock 4783]

If I had to guess how the West seeding shakes out, I think (1) GSW loses tonight at SAC and beats Portland on Sunday, and (2) LAL wins their final two against PHX and Utah in Los Angeles, giving the Lakers the 6th seed with the tie breaker over Golden State. 

That assumes SAC goes all out tonight, which I think they will since they could technically still get the 2 seed if Memphis loses out. Memphis plays the Bucks at 8pm (who will presumably be resting their entire team), so it’s possible they will have clinched the 2 around tip off of Kings Warriors, in which case Kings could pull their starters early. 

[aggie08 21505]

I think SAC probably realizes that the 2 seed won't happen, but they do have some control who the play in round 1. Lose tonight and probably get the Warriors, win and they might be looking at LeBron and AD.* Neither should exactly fill them with fear, but two radically different matchups.

*Unless the Clippers try some fuckery to get out of posting Phoenix. Though, Phoenix may play their guys the rest of the way, so LAC might lose anyway, intentionally or not.

Edited April 7, 2023 by aggie08

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

Keep in mind this was only a hamstring strain and he's been to four months already.

 

[Pam Cummings 9646]

14 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Keep in mind this was only a hamstring strain and he's been to four months already.

 

Just disappointing. He's glass. Will never be a significant player to be relied upon. His body can't take it.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Vic Mackey 47089]

Just disappointing. He's glass. Will never be a significant player to be relied upon. His body can't take it.

Greg Oden Pt 2

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Just disappointing. He's glass. Will never be a significant player to be relied upon. His body can't take it.

I think the best case scenario for the Pelicans is that in a given year, they make the playoffs with him playing 30-40 games or something but he manages to stay healthy for the duration of the playoffs.  Like AD, people discount that part.  The narrative is that they're healthy when the playoffs start.  They discount that the playoffs can be 20+ games and difficult ones at that.  

[shadow_operative 15932]

there's a difference in being made of glass (greg oden) and being so otherworldly with your size/speed combo that your body just can't take it (D Rose, Zion). your gift is your curse. that sucks for them, as basketball fans as well. 

[Dutchrudder 11143]

Rose's issue was a habit of running into large men. If he wasn't such a glutton for punishment and addicted to finishing at the rim, he probably would have had a significantly better career. He played like he was Lebron James, but his body was 50 pounds lighter and about 7 inches shorter. Having Thibs as a coach probably didn't help.

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Rose had a lot of heart and work ethic was never his problem.

Zion has looked straight fat at times. 

Will always be fascinated by Ben Simmons career or I guess lack thereof.

[Chewbacca 7780]

14 hours ago, Blotto said:

Ragtag bunch from Denver giving the Suns all they want. Nugs up 1, 8 minutes to go. 

If the Nuggets bench plays like that in the playoffs, this team is going to be tough to beat.  

[Message Board User 12395]

It’s Slovenia night in Dallas.

 

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Would have loved a KD vs LeBron 1st round. No guarantee they meet up later.

Going for the Nuggets this postseason as Jokic faces too many stupid people taking pot shots at him. Reminds me of 20 years ago when people were calling Dirk a soft Euro.