Will America recover?

[Michael Knight 12977]

I think its safe to say the Age of American Hegemony is on a swift decline (good job Putin), tho much like the Roman empire our economic influence will outlast our actual influence. The only question is who or what will replace it?  What does the next 20 years look like, will the world be fragmented into differing spheres of influence or is there a transformative world leader on the horizon? It's a pretty safe bet that such a leader won't be American but if we're lucky they'll be friendly.  I'd like to think we recover some normalcy domestically but unless another FDR is hiding somewhere our foreign influence has been permanently crippled. It's been nice being on top (at least for us), so hopefully the next world power won't fuck us as much. 

[RayDog 682]

The US could easily have a Democratic president for 16 years or more starting in 2020. After Texas, Georgia, and Arizona turn firmly blue over the next 10 years it is hard to see how the Republicans will win it again. It will take some major changes or major democratic screw up.

So there is a chance to have an FDR-like period to stabilize things assuming we ride out the inevitable world depression that is coming. 

[David Dennison 18851]

Probably, but it is going to require one particular group of people getting comfortable with the fact that they no longer run the show. The transition to a majority minority country will determine whether America is going to be great or backward.

[Michael Knight 12977]

7 minutes ago, RayDog said:

The US could easily have a Democratic president for 16 years or more starting in 2020. After Texas, Georgia, and Arizona turn firmly blue over the next 10 years it is hard to see how the Republicans will win it again. It will take some major changes or major democratic screw up.

So there is a chance to have an FDR-like period to stabilize things assuming we ride out the inevitable world depression that is coming. 

I'm a Democrat and let me tell you, there is no FDR currently in the Democratic party

[David Dennison 18851]

4 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

I'm a Democrat and let me tell you, there is no FDR currently in the Democratic party

Barry was our JFK, though.

I love that guy. I wish I could vote for him again. He wasn't perfect, but he was damn good.

[RayDog 682]

We can never really know how good a president someone will be until they are in the job. I am hopeful that we chose more wisely next time. We certainly can't do worse.

[Michael Knight 12977]

1 minute ago, RayDog said:

We can never really know how good a president someone will be until they are in the job. I am hopeful that we chose more wisely next time. We certainly can't do worse.

Maybe that guy from the Jinx would be worse

[bolverk 29656]

I think we can all agree that the era of American hegemony is now over. Sure, if we make the right choices, we'll recover to a large degree, but I'm pretty positive now that the EU will begin to strongly assert itself as a wary geopolitical ally with complicated cultural ties to the US. If Brexit does indeed actually happen, I see the EU standing up to the US much more forcefully.

It could be that we'll begin to turn increasingly toward Japan, South Korea, and the UK as our international stalwarts, but I think it's only a matter of time that east Asia falls under the sway of Chinese influence.

Russia will remain the wildcard but a streamlined EU (sans the Brits' view of their own exceptionalism) might actually be stronger in the future and could possibly keep Putin in check on their own.

All the above would lead to a multipolar world in which America's standing will be much weaker than it has been in the past. That doesn't necessarily mean the sky is falling, but it would certainly mean that American hegemony is dead.

Thanks Trump.

[Parliament 14248]

Nature abhors a vacuum, and our "hegemony" since the fall of the Soviet Union has been the anomaly.

[deadshank 24652]

8 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Barry was our JFK, though.

I love that guy. I wish I could vote for him again. He wasn't perfect, but he was damn good.

Good at what?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Good at what?

Good at projecting American democratic values across the globe and inspiring others to reject the evil of tyranny and oppression.  You want to know why our European allies loved him, that’s why.

 

[Assholehorn 6]

America is Anthony Bourdain. For decades now always eats at the best restaurants, stays at best hotels, gets ass kissed constantly, and says fuck it while tying the noose around it's own neck. 

40 percent of this country sees the moron as a good president so there will be no revival. 

[Dolemite 143]

8 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Barry was our JFK, though.

I love that guy. I wish I could vote for him again. He wasn't perfect, but he was damn good.

He was great getting around banking laws for sure.

[Dolemite 143]

41 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Good at projecting American democratic values across the globe and inspiring others to reject the evil of tyranny and oppression.  You want to know why our European allies loved him, that’s why.

 

They loved him because he let them rob us blind. Although it was through stupidity and not some grand plan Barry came up with

Edited June 10, 2018 by Dolemite

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 hours ago, RayDog said:

The US could easily have a Democratic president for 16 years or more starting in 2020. After Texas, Georgia, and Arizona turn firmly blue over the next 10 years it is hard to see how the Republicans will win it again. It will take some major changes or major democratic screw up.

So there is a chance to have an FDR-like period to stabilize things assuming we ride out the inevitable world depression that is coming. 

FDR type period ?  No doubtful.

[Anastasis 23464]

55 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Good at projecting American democratic values across the globe ...

 

Well, he did authorize more international arms sales than any other president in history, so you have a point in terms of being exemplary of American values.  

[Dolemite 143]

We need another FDR depression and world war for sure.

[David Dennison 18851]

31 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

He was great getting around banking laws for sure.

Which laws were broken?

[Dolemite 143]

Go ask the two banks that refused to cooperate with transferring dollars to Iran.

 

 

[David Dennison 18851]

1 minute ago, Dolemite said:

Go ask the two banks that refused to cooperate with transferring dollars to Iran.

I'm asking you. Which laws were broken?

[GSU&UT 1798]

Just now, David Dennison said:

I'm asking you. Which laws were broken?

You're replying to someone who has regularly bought into insane conspiracy theories regarding the Democrat party, he's not worth the energy.

[David Dennison 18851]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

You're replying to someone who has regularly bought into insane conspiracy theories regarding the Democrat party, he's not worth the energy.

I know. I just want to see if he can get beyond the talking point he heard on Fox News.

[Dolemite 143]

I know that and since when would you ever care about the truth? Your little Obama is so precious. Oh fuck.

[ousuxndallas 65]

The US could easily have a Democratic president for 16 years or more starting in 2020. After Texas, Georgia, and Arizona turn firmly blue over the next 10 years it is hard to see how the Republicans will win it again. It will take some major changes or major democratic screw up.
So there is a chance to have an FDR-like period to stabilize things assuming we ride out the inevitable world depression that is coming. 

Saving this little gem for the sake of posterity. Lulz.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

First we have to bottom out before we can know what if any recovery is possible. 

[Fozzz 152]

Things aren’t all that bad - the US could make a fine agrarian colony for China. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

Things aren’t all that bad - the US could make a fine agrarian colony for China. 

Thurr gunna eat urrr dawgggzzz

[staboner 4969]

just anything else, shit fails

we have a large population that is refusing to get with the world. other countries have this same problem too obviously, but some places (China, India, parts of Europe) will get with it - either because they have to (China), they want to (India), or that believe its best (Europe) and they will embrace globalism as it comes. its always coming no matter what the somewheres say. 

America has plenty of people that want to be there too - but we are held back by a polluted government system, selfishness as a country motto and citizens that refuse to accept who they/we are. Protectionism will rule the day

the reason we are asking questions liek the OP says is really telling. there are no answers because there is likely only war left. shit some would say we have been living it for some decade or two already. just hope for no nukes my Gs. 

also the internet and disinformation - mixed with a population too insecure to get over it - will never allow a global world leader. our existing institutions will work to hold that person back. 

[ScottishHorn 172]

If we could elect someone that everyone could unite behind instead of 1/2 the country trying to destroy him that would be a good thing and we will be ok.  However, until the people become really knowledgable about how corrupt both sides are, it's not going to happen and wont happen.  The propaganda is overwhelming and anyone who tries to tell the truth is destroyed.  

[Equinox 95]

Is this the new "what will I tell my children" thread from the Shag?

[ScottishHorn 172]

50 minutes ago, staboner said:

just anything else, shit fails

we have a large population that is refusing to get with the world. other countries have this same problem too obviously, but some places (China, India, parts of Europe) will get with it - either because they have to (China), they want to (India), or that believe its best (Europe) and they will embrace globalism as it comes. its always coming no matter what the somewheres say. 

America has plenty of people that want to be there too - but we are held back by a polluted government system, selfishness as a country motto and citizens that refuse to accept who they/we are. Protectionism will rule the day

the reason we are asking questions liek the OP says is really telling. there are no answers because there is likely only war left. shit some would say we have been living it for some decade or two already. just hope for no nukes my Gs. 

also the internet and disinformation - mixed with a population too insecure to get over it - will never allow a global world leader. our existing institutions will work to hold that person back. 

China wont get with shit.  China has 1 loyalty..China and they wont be happy until they control (politically) all of Asia

[Assholehorn 6]

2 hours ago, Dolemite said:

I know that and since when would you ever care about the truth? Your little Obama is so precious. Oh fuck.

 

2 hours ago, Dolemite said:

Go ask the two banks that refused to cooperate with transferring dollars to Iran.

 

 

Cite evidence for this. 

Which laws were broken? 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Ultimately, both parties need to focus on where we are similar as Americans and not what divides us.  The lack of civility in political discourse is absolutely astonishing.

[deadshank 24652]

5 minutes ago, Assholehorn said:

 

Cite evidence for this. 

Which laws were broken? 

https://apnews.com/27e8179cf10140dca7eb86b3488f01e2

No law broken but definitely projecting democratic ideals across the globe, per Hugo.

[Anastasis 23464]

Just now, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Ultimately, both parties need to focus on where we are similar as Americans and not what divides us.  The lack of civility in political discourse is absolutely astonishing.

fuck you traitor!

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

4 hours ago, deadshank said:

Good at what?

Not being an asshole. Being smart and thoughtful and articulate. Caring about others. Respecting our friends. Showing class and dignity.

Not to mention knowing the words to the fucking song. 

[hpslugga 4058]

2 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

You're replying to someone who has regularly bought into insane conspiracy theories regarding the Democrat party, he's not worth the energy.

And he never has been, either.

[Smax 3800]

19 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Not being an asshole. Being smart and thoughtful and articulate. Caring about others. Respecting our friends. Showing class and dignity.

Not to mention knowing the words to the fucking song. 

might want to rethink that as this is one of the most assholish arrogant displays but a sitting president I ever witnessed

 

 

[F250 28764]

As long as the U.S. Navy remains the top dog in the world, the U.S. will retain its hegemony. Our navy secures global commerce, without it regional flare-ups would disrupt international trade. China still has a way to go before they can match us in this regard. They won't get control of their region until they have a navy to control it. We have time.

Granted, Donnie could trade in our Navy for a new fangled Space Force.

 

[F250 28764]

15 minutes ago, Smax said:

might want to rethink that as this is one of the most assholish arrogant displays but a sitting president I ever witnessed

 

 

I never cared for Obama but saying that was the most assholish arrogant display by a sitting President is fucking retarded.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Ultimately, both parties need to focus on where we are similar as Americans and not what divides us.  The lack of civility in political discourse is absolutely astonishing.

They do focus on that fact, and use it to keep the natives restless.

[EMAWesome 101]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Not being an asshole. Being smart and thoughtful and articulate. Caring about others. Respecting our friends. Showing class and dignity.

Not to mention knowing the words to the fucking song. 

Are you wanting a leader or a statesman?   Are you wanting to feel warm and fuzzy or do you want to accomplish something?  If you are going to be a leader there are times you have to be an asshole.  Sometimes the people you are leading need to be kicked in the ass so they will start doing something that needs to be done.  There is a word for these people that need kicked in the ass.  That word is Congress.

[Pods 7551]

A leader doesn't have to be an asshole, that's the lazy man's way out. Leading by example is far harder on the leader, but far better for the people following them. 

[Incredulity 11656]

Obama is far more high minded, in the pejorative sense, than he is smart.  He also would let his pettiness ooze out at just the wrong time quite often.(see above, back of the bus and many others quips or comments)

I wish he would have been much more like Mandela or King.  He had so much political capital when he was elected.

I will give him credit in that from everthing I have ever seen or read he is a legit good husband and parent.

Americas hegemony isn’t going anywhere for a good while.  If you think there is a reckoning coming gor tge US, just wait till China has to deal with a floating currency and a true middle class with outsized expectations on lifestyle.  Managing that in a command economy is not possible.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

Good thing Obama isn’t president,  ya retard.  Thanks Obama. 

[SKJ 1311]

I'm really kinda fucking confused how any of you dumb shits think Obama was anything less than a magical miracle worker compared to the fucking despotic shitshow we're witnessing now

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

You can blame your racist dumbfuckery on yourself, east Texas hick.  I for one am tired of hauling your ignorant asses along with the rest of the state.  

[pyrohornIII 4814]

I feel like we are in Neville Chamberlain's Great Britain before WW2.  Seems he and others in power at that time were willing and maybe even anxious to appease Hitler, to sit by while he pillaged the rest of Europe.   In return, England would be unmolested, and those that helped bring about such a peaceful capitulation would most likely be rewarded by positions of power in the new government set up by the Nazis. 

That's what this feels like.  Like Trump is selling out America and our allies to feather his nest somewhere else.  He acts like someone who is intent on surrendering,  trying to convince everyone else he is looking out for the best deal for America, but really only looking out for himself.

I'm not sure there is a clear cut threat that is headed by an individual.   But more likely it's fear of globalization that is what is driving this fracture.  I think Putin can't handle globalization anymore that Trump can.  Therefore he has made Trump his ally, his puppet. 

Now we have to either get ahead and lead again in making this work for all, or we fall behind and have to play catch up.    For so many years we were the cutting edge in technology, now we are being forced to drop that advance, retreat to old standards.   Coal vs renewable energy is a great example.  Environment, immigration, fair trade, affordable health care are more examples.  Instead of trying to improve these things, we keep allowing advancements to be surrendered.

We as a country have to determine what is important again.  Then we have to stand up and say it, stand up and demand it.   If new standard is ruining everything else to improve our own individual bank accounts, then let me know.  I can play that game too. Or I could protest, or I can move.  But at least I would know what the rules are.  I get tired of people who live by one set of rules and espouse another.  Looking for justification for how other people are treated while profiting off of that treatment.

Until we can get common goals of human rights and decency again, then we won't get very far.   And human rights and decency goes beyond the right of being birthed.   Until a person's scoreboard reflects what he/she has done to make the world a better place for others, instead of how much they have accumulated, then we are stuck. 

So much of what you guys have said about the boomers is right on...same for our country and its tendency to go offshore for reasons that aren't entirely humanitarian or even barely humanitarian.  

 

 

[pyrohornIII 4814]

2 hours ago, F250 said:

As long as the U.S. Navy remains the top dog in the world, the U.S. will retain its hegemony. Our navy secures global commerce, without it regional flare-ups would disrupt international trade. China still has a way to go before they can match us in this regard. They won't get control of their region until they have a navy to control it. We have time.

Granted, Donnie could trade in our Navy for a new fangled Space Force.

 

Ok, I am not really up on all this, and defer to your knowledge, 250.  But this seems to be in line with how the French viewed the Maginot Line before WW2.  Our navy won't help much if the telecommunications grid that supports it is shot to hell by a group of Russian or Chinese hackers.   

[Parliament 14248]

Ok, I am not really up on all this, and defer to your knowledge, 250.  But this seems to be in line with how the French viewed the Maginot Line before WW2.  Our navy won't help much if the telecommunications grid that supports it is shot to hell by a group of Russian or Chinese hackers.   

A valid concern. But you gotta remember our Military spending dwarfs the rest of the World. I don't know what we have to counter such hacking, but I know we have it.

And hacking goes both ways. We can hack them too.