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Will America recover?

Michael Knight

By Michael Knight
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Bullneck

Bullneck 19181

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Hey fuck you too. There's this thing called the economy and inflation learn what they are.

Can you describe what an economy is?  How about inflation?  

 

Here's a bonus question: what's one thing worse than inflation?

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Dolemite
Dolemite

I know that and since when would you ever care about the truth? Your little Obama is so precious. Oh fuck.

Equinox
Equinox

Is this the new "what will I tell my children" thread from the Shag?

Dertyberd
Dertyberd

Having lived in the EU for almost 5 years and running a small business and attempting to start others, I agree, it is harder to get rich.  America is still the place to hopefully get rich starting a s

Bullneck

Bullneck 19181

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Incredulity said:

It is a chicken and egg situation.  

I would argue that in the majority of cases it is not a conscious business decision to utilize government assistance as a tool to further a business. 

Why would you argue that?  

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11675

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16 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Why would you argue that?  

Because the “evil business owner” narrative is completely overblown.   The majority of people don’t understand the difference between revenue and profit.  They are so often conflated in the MSM/Popular Culture it’s comical.  So trying to have a practical conversation about tax rates, corporate structure, net profit, employment taxes, real wages...... is impossible.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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Posted
27 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Oh, God no.  Those people don't deserve a living wage.  They deserve On Board's version of the Iron Law of Wages.

Deserve’s got nothing to do with it.  This is America. If you aren’t disabled all you need to do is work and make good choices to not be poor  

Stop sibsidizing dumbfuckery and you’ll get a whole lot less. 

Notice how Mexicans fresh off jumping the border who can’t get shit in welfare somehow manage to live and thrive without dying in the street.  Because they bust their asses and don’t have an option but to work.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18925

Posted
Posted
Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Deserve’s got nothing to do with it.  This is America. If you aren’t disabled all you need to do is work and make good choices to not be poor  

Stop sibsidizing dumbfuckery and you’ll get a whole lot less. 

Notice how Mexicans fresh off jumping the border who can’t get shit in welfare somehow manage to live and thrive without dying in the street.  Because they bust their asses and don’t have an option but to work.  

You would know.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

A universal basic income is where we eventually get to imo. Especially as we evolve to an almost exclusively service driven economy that is mostly automated. The devil is in the details though 

http://reason.com/archives/2017/06/03/the-indestructible-idea-of-the

Didn’t the Nordic country (Norway?) Cancel their basic income for free to citizens experiment a couple months ago due to a lack of ROI?

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14926

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Posted
I saw a lot of Next Generation.  Pretty sure that Wesley used the simulator for a LOT of alien porn sessions.
And I have posted about my concerns about automation before, and I definitely share your concerns there.  That's it's own question, with some real overlap in the long-term.  Still, I think we can and should avoid the guaranteed minimum income because its social negatives are huge: it creates resentment by those folks who work (and perhaps earn only a bit more than the the folks receiving the benefit); it's terrible for human psychology - we NEED to have some sense of self-worth, and work is the surest path to that, and if we DON"T have self-worth, a whole host of negatives come with it; it may be an unsustainable cost, even in a highly re-distributive model.
I'd prefer a CCC sort of approach -- put them to work on extra infrastructure projects.  Put them to work in additional government jobs -- yes, we'd be paying tax dollars, but we'd get benefits. I'd LOVE it if we had amazing national parks with a heavy staff of rangers, park maintenance, and the like.
Folks are going to need jobs, for WHATEVER reason (automation or not).  They are going to need to earn a living wage.  If they don't have those things, we're going to be in a very shitty spot.  If the market on its own is not going to be flexible enough to deal with the situation, we need to find other ways to respond.  Not to give money away, not to force private employers to do economically counter-productive things.  But totally outside of that model.


I like the Milton Friedman approach (negative income tax). Everyone gets it, so there should be little resentment. And there are no penalties for improving ones station above the minimum. A true safety net instead of copper handcuffs.


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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14926

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In no small part because of lack of transit and transportation infrastructure.  The quality of life issue really is that big a driver.   Shit, 20 years ago, my wife really wanted us to think about buying a nice, new-construction place out in Round Rock or whatnot, like lots of her friends had (she had some envy).  I said fine, if you want us to end up divorced.  I explained that the two hours a day I spend in my car -- because my job will always have me in/near downtown -- would mean I'm an absentee husband and father for a lot of stuff.
Instead, we live closer in.  Traffic's STILL a bitch, but I spend around 20 mins each way, and could go to kids' school events and baseball games.
Bozo Casanova has some great analysis on how commute issues are a big driver of housing prices.


How are in-town schools in Austin?
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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14926

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Posted
Some of this housing talk really misses the point on the original intent of the thread.  I realize it may sound crazy to some, but in the example I provided earlier about a single mom with 2 kids using govt assistance to get a nursing degree, guess what- she might not be able to do it as easily in Austin.  Austin has obviously exploded and that comes with a ton of consequences for those starting out.  But nurses get paid great in every community.  And virtually every major health system will pay for relocation costs.
 


Reminds of my broke sister who just has to live in the Bay Area because that’s “where her spirit is.” I’ve tried to explain to her that she picked the worst place in the country to be broke but she prefers to hang on by her fingernails and blame Silicon Valley. She could come live with me or my parents in Georgia for as long as she needs.
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23477

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

How are in-town schools in Austin?

Varies at each level. Elementary quality is highly regionalized. Before we move to the cracker ass suburbs we zoned to Lee. We loved that school it was awesome and had a good demographic mix.  My sister's kids zone to Casis, a great school. I went to Kealing and McCallum and turned out just fine. They are probably both better schools than when I attended. There are also some schools in the district that I would not let educate my children in a million fucking years. There are some elite level schools in AISD, LASA etc. But the outlying area districts (eanes, ltisd, DS) all perform far better on average. 

Edited by Anastasis
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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4815

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, sheeeit said:

Some of this housing talk really misses the point on the original intent of the thread.  I realize it may sound crazy to some, but in the example I provided earlier about a single mom with 2 kids using govt assistance to get a nursing degree, guess what- she might not be able to do it as easily in Austin.  Austin has obviously exploded and that comes with a ton of consequences for those starting out.  But nurses get paid great in every community.  And virtually every major health system will pay for relocation costs.

 

link to these government assistance programs, please.

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27580

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1 hour ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Didn’t the Nordic country (Norway?) Cancel their basic income for free to citizens experiment a couple months ago due to a lack of ROI?

I don’t know about Norway. The Swiss had a proposal for a nationwide plan but I believe it was voted down.  Alaska pats dividends to its residents based on oil revenues. Several Indian tribes pay out dividends from casinos. A few US cities and even some states have experimented with small supplements over the years. 

This is a concept that has supporters across the political spectrum. Here is a quick read on it from MLK, and the points he made then are even more applicable now as we are almost exclusively a society of consumers rather than producers 

 

https://medium.com/basic-income/mlk-on-guaranteed-income-bfd060fd5314

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sheeeit

sheeeit 129

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Posted
1 hour ago, JohnRedHorn said:

Once again you speak through your ass. Given the costs of car ownership, maintenance, extensive repairs, gas at $2.60 a gallon, and full coverage car insurance I want you to give a detailed realistic financial breakdown of how the cheap rates uber charges can possibly result in a NET of $20/hr for the driver. Also factor in that Uber charges the driver 25% of all fares earned. Go ahead, this should be funny. 

 

My kid almost got suckered into this scam until I sat him down and we worked through the full cost/earnings breakdown. It's so heavily slanted against the driver that it should be Illegal. 

I will do this but I am quite certain you will not get it.  Lets be clear on what I claimed- I claimed that a person can work for a service like uber, very part time, and work during peak hours and earn a net of $20/hr.  This is a supplement to their base income.

Some things to consider in your retort:

1) Cost of car ownership- The payments for the car do not change if you happen to drive for uber.  Obviously this scenario does not work if we are describing a hypothetical person that already has a day job but has no car.  I am assuming someone that already has a car.  Like 90% or more of people with regular day jobs.  

2) Maintenance- Not sure what extra maintenance you would need for 70-80 more miles a week on your car.  Maybe an extra oil change a year?  $25/year.

3) Extensive Repairs-  This is supposed to be Uber not demolition derby.

4) Gas- OK

5) Insurance- My understanding is that uber covers the driver while in route to a pick up or while a passenger is in the car.  I did a quick search and it appears you can supplement your current insurance to pick up any gaps that may exist for about $50/month.

So my guy is going to work on the night of a concert at the AA in Dallas and will work for one hour.  he will have 2 rides that take people from the AA to Preston Hollow.  Each ride is about 6 miles and should take about 15 minutes.  The cost for the rides according to Uber is $18.50 per ride assuming no surge pricing (i would assume concerts have surge pricing but i do not know).  So my guy grosses $37/hr.  Take out 25% for Uber and he is left with $27.75.  Most estimates I have seen say to account for about 20% in expenses like gas, extra insurance etc.  So after that my guy is left with $22.20.  That is without any tips or any surge pricing.

No one ever suggested that someone could average $20/hr all the time or for an equivalent 40 hour work week.  But it is absolutely reasonable to expect to average at least a net of $20/hr in spot driving.  

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SKJ

SKJ 1311

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Because the “evil business owner” narrative is completely overblown.   The majority of people don’t understand the difference between revenue and profit.  They are so often conflated in the MSM/Popular Culture it’s comical.  So trying to have a practical conversation about tax rates, corporate structure, net profit, employment taxes, real wages...... is impossible.

Well, I did graduate business school, so...

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sheeeit

sheeeit 129

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Posted
9 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Well, I did graduate business school, so...

Wait.  You graduated business school and posted this:

"That's just the bullshit pricing book hospitals use.

It's a fucking price scam. They "charge' that upfront to show the insurance companies that they're getting a "discount"rate so that insurance companies can pay only 500 for the aspirin on their books. Meanwhile, the insurance company draws that amount out of their funds in payment, but then recovered the discount in their own books, passing the "savings" onto the premiums the customers pay, since there are "rules" as to how much they can collect.

The actual margin doesn't see the light of day.

It's a scam called "middling""

Was it Trump's business school?  I mean this line "Meanwhile, the insurance company draws that amount out of their funds in payment, but then recovered the discount in their own books" is practically gibberish.  Perhaps you can enlighten us on the accounting method that allows an insurance company to "recovered their discount on their own books".   

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SKJ

SKJ 1311

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Posted (edited)

Here's a bit more...

Documents filed in the case showed that in 1993 BCBSM implemented a scheme through which it would collect additional revenue by adding certain mark-ups to hospital claims paid by its self-insured customers. Most of the country’s largest employers self-insure, which means that they are on the hook for medical claims when employees and their dependents get sick or injured. Self-insured companies hire firms  like BCBSM to do the paperwork. It is the employer’s money—not the insurance company’s—that is “at risk” in such arrangements.

After suing and getting documentation from BCBSM, attorneys for Hi-Lex were able to show the court that BCBSM marked up hospital claims by as much as 22 percent. BCBSM didn’t disclose the markups, however. As part of the scheme, regardless of the amount BCBSM was required to pay a hospital for a given service, it reported a higher amount to Hi-Lex and pocketed the difference.

https://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/05/11/17317/court-case-shows-how-health-insurers-rip-you-and-your-employer

I can go deeper, show more, or you could do more research down the rabbit hole

Edited by SKJ
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Bullneck

Bullneck 19181

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Posted
3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Your posts ?

C'mon. Here's your chance.  Impress use with some facts.  Drop some knowledge bombs.  Gravitas, you haz it.  Come on, Sgt. Schultz.  You can do it.  Think hard.  You know the answers.  They will come to you.  You're smart.  Those people that think they're better than you . . . well, they're not.  Here's your chance.

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19181

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I think because the tax cuts are going to kill so many poor people, we are going to be in better shape.  Less welfare.  Less takers.  All those deaths should help. 

Gotta thin the herd.  Maybe drown those deformed babies from now on.  You know, like the Spartans used to do.  Damn, Johnny, you aren't just wrong about every fucking thing possible, you were just born at the wrong time.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Says a member of the taker class.

I have no idea what taxes you pay.  But what is a taker?  I’ve scratched 7 figure checks to the US Treasury.  Have you?

 I know people who pay a lot more than me.  But I feel I’ve paid a lot. And I’m certainly not receiving transfer payments and am phased out of tax welfare.

There are people who pay more than me.  But I’m guessing I pay more than 95 percent and consume less  

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18925

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Posted
Just now, Johnny Sack said:

I have no idea what taxes you pay.  But what is a taker?  I’ve scratched 7 figure checks to the US Treasury.  Have you?

 I know people who pay a lot more than me.  But I feel I’ve paid a lot. And I’m certainly not receiving transfer payments and am phased out of tax welfare.

There are people who pay more than me.  But I’m guessing I pay more than 95 percent and consume less  

 

You don't pay nearly enough. 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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Posted (edited)

 

 

2 hours ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Didn’t the Nordic country (Norway?) Cancel their basic income for free to citizens experiment a couple months ago due to a lack of ROI?

Finland. And they didn't trial UBI really. 

They gave 2000 recently unemployed people no strings attached money each month for 2 years. Thats actually barely different from our unemployment payments in downturns that can extend to 18 months and require only half ass job searches.

Terrible sample set and should have included employed people, entrepreneurs, and students, and the participants should believe it's open ended whether it is or not.  The finite term changes their behavior. 

The 2 year term is also not over yet so no results have been published at all and participant info is private. So even with its shitty controls, nobody knows if it has "failed" or "succeeded" yet. 

Edited by FondrenRoad
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Bullneck

Bullneck 19181

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I have no idea what taxes you pay.  But what is a taker?  I’ve scratched 7 figure checks to the US Treasury.  Have you?

 I know people who pay a lot more than me.  But I feel I’ve paid a lot. And I’m certainly not receiving transfer payments and am phased out of tax welfare.

There are people who pay more than me.  But I’m guessing I pay more than 95 percent and consume less  

 

You live in America, right?  What have you done to serve this country?  What have you done for anyone but yourself?  I'd like to know.  There are places you could live and pay far less taxes but I doubt you'd like them.

So if you're so rich why complain?  Why can't you be happy?  Happy knowing that poor people with fewer options will see to it that our way of life continues.  That's more than I can say for you.  You want to enjoy the benefits of other people's sacrifices and complain about not having enough money.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18925

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

What do you pay?  What was your 2017 tax liability?  If it was more than me, then I can respect your opinion. 

If you pay dick, than that explains it all. 

What was your 2017 tax liability?

Edited by David Dennison
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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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Posted
Just now, Bullneck said:

C'mon Johnny Sack, where you at?  Mr. Moneybags but don't have enough.  How many yachts can you water ski behind?

How much do you pay?  How much do you give to charity?  Or are you one of those big mouth liberals who can only give away someone else’s cash.  

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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Posted
1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

Johnny Sack has scratched 7 figure checks to the US Treasury.  So if he's in a higher tax bracket he must have earned maybe 3 million one year?  Paid one and kept two?  

And you?

I pay plenty every year. Just want to know what people who bitch about me pay?  If it’s similar, then respect.  

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19181

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Posted
Just now, Johnny Sack said:

How much do you pay?  How much do you give to charity?  Or are you one of those big mouth liberals who can only give away someone else’s cash.  

You completely missed the point.  You want to talk about how rich you are.  Not me.  I have much less money than you.  You're a big shot.  The system works for you.  It's outrageous how all these other people who participate in the economy aren't as rich as you.  

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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Posted
Just now, Bullneck said:

You completely missed the point.  You want to talk about how rich you are.  Not me.  I have much less money than you.  You're a big shot.  The system works for you.  It's outrageous how all these other people who participate in the economy aren't as rich as you.  

So we agree you just want to give orher people’s money away. How noble. 

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19181

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Posted
1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

And you?

I pay plenty every year. Just want to know what people who bitch about me pay?  If it’s similar, then respect.  

I'm not bitching about you paying.  I think you should pay more.  I'm bitching about the fact you're not happy to pay and be part of this wonderful country.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18925

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Posted
Just now, Johnny Sack said:

You first.  I’m not the one claiming you didn’t pay your fair share.  

You're bitching about paying an amount of taxes that means you made a shitload of money on top of being born wealthy.

That just makes you a complete asshole. People like you need the state to protect you.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

You're bitching about paying an amount of taxes that means you made a shitload of money on top of being born wealthy.

That just makes you a complete asshole. People like you need the state to protect you.

Not from some pajama wearing pussy like you. 

Edited by Johnny Sack
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