Will America recover?

[David Dennison 18,856]

2 minutes ago, SKJ said:

The reason is because it's better to make 3mm and take home 2mm than it is to make 300k and take home 250k

The tax as punishment argument is so disingenuous it's comical.

Edited June 14, 2018 by David Dennison

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Tax isn't punishment.

Stop acting like it is

It is to a lot of people and that's what they believe and feel. Stop acting like it isn't a valid belief (like yours is as well).

[RandomIdoit 655]

4 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Yeah, that's the best life

It's not, but it sure is easy.

[David Dennison 18,856]

Just now, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

It is to a lot of people and that's what they believe and feel. Stop acting like it isn't a valid belief (like yours is as well).

Those people don't realize just how much they benefit from the largesse of the United States government.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

2 minutes ago, SKJ said:

The reason is because it's better to make 3mm and take home 2mm than it is to make 300k and take home 250k

Is it though?  What if I have to work 50x harder to make the 3mm?  Many would say 300k is “too much” for one to be making, and should be taxed at the highest rates.  

Would it not be better to hang around the house and collect a check that keeps me fed and a roof over my head?  Little to no stress. No 18 hour work days. No suit and tie.  Just livin.  I see F350s and Escalades in front of trailers every time I drive through town to work.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Those people don't realize just how much they benefit from the largesse of the United States government.

I'll grant that, I see what you mean.

[RandomIdoit 655]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The tax as punishment argument is so disingenuous it's comical.

Great. Let's tax everyone at 15% and do away with tax credits. That should be fine since tax isn't a punishment.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The tax as punishment argument is so disingenuous it's comical.

Then tax the poor too. It’s not punishment, right. Its part of being in society. I suggest they tighten up and join the rest of us. 

[SKJ 1,311]

2 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

It's not, but it sure is easy.

You've lost your motherfucking mind.

You think it's easy to work and barely make enough to survive?

C'mon, stop it. Really. 

[fattyflattie 4,639]

1 minute ago, SKJ said:

You've lost your motherfucking mind.

You think it's easy to work and barely make enough to survive?

C'mon, stop it. Really. 

This has been covered.  There are lots of things one can do to make more than “barely enough to survive”.  

[SKJ 1,311]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Is it though?  What if I have to work 50x harder to make the 3mm?  Many would say 300k is “too much” for one to be making, and should be taxed at the highest rates.  

Would it not be better to hang around the house and collect a check that keeps me fed and a roof over my head?  Little to no stress. No 18 hour work days. No suit and tie.  Just livin.  I see F350s and Escalades in front of trailers every time I drive through town to work.  

Bro. Drug dealing is a 24hr a day job.

Being poor is a fucking beating. Having barely any medical care, can't afford any extras...

I'm beginning to think motherfuckers on this board have lost all fucking touch with reality

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

47 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The dude cried about scratching out a seven figure check to the IRS. Do you have any idea how well he did that tax year  and how much of an asshole he sounds like bitching about paying that amount of tax after a year that most Americans can't even imagine?

I didn’t cry about anything. I just don’t need some jerk off who pays a  fraction of what I pay and uses more government services than I do wagging their finger at me and saying I don’t pay my fair share. Fuck off. 

[RandomIdoit 655]

Just now, SKJ said:

You've lost your motherfucking mind.

You think it's easy to work and barely make enough to survive?

C'mon, stop it. Really. 

When I worked at HEB for $8 an hour, I saw how easy it was for people on foodstamps. I was eating ramen and sandwiches, they had baskets full of food. They also had nicer clothes, jewelry, and the newest phones. When they needed to buy something that foodstamps didn't cover, they used their EBT card. 

[SKJ 1,311]

4 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

Great. Let's tax everyone at 15% and do away with tax credits. That should be fine since tax isn't a punishment.

You do realize that most people withhold more than that, right?

[RandomIdoit 655]

1 minute ago, SKJ said:

You do realize that most people withhold more than that, right?

You do realize 40% of people don't pay anything, right?

[SKJ 1,311]

1 minute ago, RandomIdoit said:

When I worked at HEB for $8 an hour, I saw how easy it was for people on foodstamps. I was eating ramen and sandwiches, they had baskets full of food. They also had nicer clothes, jewelry, and the newest phones. When they needed to buy something that foodstamps didn't cover, they used their EBT card. 

Stop. 

 

Just fucking stop.

If you were so fucking beaten by this, why didn't you contact the authorities?

Just knock it off

[David Dennison 18,856]

3 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

You do realize 40% of people don't pay anything, right?

They pay plenty. They just don't owe federal income tax. 

[SKJ 1,311]

2 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

You do realize 40% of people don't pay anything, right?

Right.

The bottom two quintiles.

You do realize that the top of the second quintile is 42k.

 

[SKJ 1,311]

9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

This has been covered.  There are lots of things one can do to make more than “barely enough to survive”.  

Yeah. I could do lots of things to get further ahead in life.

None of them legal, though

[David Dennison 18,856]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I didn’t cry about anything. I just don’t need some jerk off who pays a  fraction of what I pay and uses more government services than I do wagging their finger at me and saying I don’t pay my fair share. Fuck off. 

And I don't need some jerk of born with a silver spoon in his mouth complaining about paying taxes on a seven figure income. You should be thankful the government affords you the protection that it does, take your "hard earned" money, and shut the fuck up.

[Bullneck 19,084]

30 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I read what you quoted. It doesn’t address my comments 

Explain how our level of spending is sustainable 

Actually, things are going to get quite interesting with the new Republican tax code.  The deficit will get much larger because of a massive reduction of taxes on those who need it least.  Whether the Democrats are able regain control of Congress in time to fix things remains to be seen.

Running a government is a bit like driving a car.  All sorts of things happen.  Good things, bad things, unexpected things.  The Republicans have done everything they can at the behest of the lobbyists to whom they owe fealty to adopt as short-sighted and destructive policies they can in order keep those campaign contributions coming.  "Republicans say government doesn't work.  Then they get elected and prove it."

If you read the article on homelessness, why do you think some countries have low homelessness and others don't.  And by the way, I don't think that any human problem can be eradicated completely.  

[RandomIdoit 655]

3 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Stop. 

 

Just fucking stop.

If you were so fucking beaten by this, why didn't you contact the authorities?

Just knock it off

Why? I didn't want to live like that, but many people do. I worked my way up to manager while I went to school, then finished my electrical engineering degree and landed a great job. So i should pay more money so that they can continue to abuse the system? No thanks. I play plenty already.

[Bullneck 19,084]

11 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I didn’t cry about anything. I just don’t need some jerk off who pays a  fraction of what I pay and uses more government services than I do wagging their finger at me and saying I don’t pay my fair share. Fuck off. 

Again, this argument isn't solely about money.  I noticed that you didn't list whatever service for others you've ever done.  Citizenship to you appears to be just one thing: paying taxes.  

Surely you realize that many, many very poor people have served this country in ways that is priceless.  They are more important than you.

[David Dennison 18,856]

2 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

Why? I didn't want to live like that, but many people do. I worked my way up to manager while I went to school, then finished my electrical engineering degree and landed a great job. So i should pay more money so that they can continue to abuse the system? No thanks. I play plenty already.

I have a sneaking suspicion you have no idea what your effective federal income tax rate is.

[RandomIdoit 655]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They pay plenty. They just don't owe federal income tax. 

And they net thousands of dollars. Let's use turbotax for an estimate. Single mom, with 2 kids, makes $20k a year, pays $1k in federal withholding. Tax refund of about $8964.

[SKJ 1,311]

6 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

Why? I didn't want to live like that, but many people do. I worked my way up to manager while I went to school, then finished my electrical engineering degree and landed a great job. So i should pay more money so that they can continue to abuse the system? No thanks. I play plenty already.

Just stop.

I mean, I'm sure it was at least 50% of shoppers in the HEB paying with an EBT card and driving off in a Benz

The fact is, since there were so many people committing fraud, and you didn't report it, you're complicit in that, right?

The next fact is, I'm fairly certain no one's talking about taxing you more.

The next fact is, if we're really talking about who to tax more, like the top half of the top quintile, I'm almost certain none of those people are here to defend themselves.

Stop thinking you'll be there someday and that if you don't fight it now it'll be such a downer when you get there.

You won't be there someday

Edited June 14, 2018 by SKJ

[fattyflattie 4,639]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

And I don't need some jerk of born with a silver spoon in his mouth complaining about paying taxes on a seven figure income. You should be thankful the government affords you the protection that it does, take your "hard earned" money, and shut the fuck up.

Be thankful it affords the protection it does?  The fuck does that even mean?  

The govt provides the same to everyone, unless you are poor, then they will feed and house you as well. 

[Anastasis 23,469]

28 minutes ago, SKJ said:

I would guess that it's quite disingenuous to think that at a certain rate, people are going to stop working. 

Most of the wealthy make quite a good bit of money from investments, though, and would just be paying capital gains on it...

We are at tipping point in my household whether my wife continues working. It's almost net zero after certain QOL considerations are incorporated in the calculus. You increase the marginal rate at a particular threshold, and she's gonna drop out of the employment force .  It just doesn't make financial sense by my calculus.  

If you just look at our household on income level, we rate out fairly well. We also have two doctorates and a masters in the household.  We spent cumulative ~20 years in college and are still paying off our student loans (interest on which we are phased out of deducting). We are significantly behind most of our peer group in savings and 401k as result of extra years in school on academic stipends.  I give more to charity annually than the median american salary. I would have probably been financially better off taking up welding or auto body work out of high school at 18 which i seriously considered, but hey, I actually contribute quite a bit more in current role to population health and drug safety, despite being a few steps behind of the alternative paths. So you can rightly fuck off if you want to stick you hand in my pocket until Washington takes step one to reel in fucking spending and put us on a tenable financial path forward.  

Edited June 14, 2018 by Anastasis

[David Dennison 18,856]

2 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

And they net thousands of dollars. Let's use turbotax for an estimate. Single mom, with 2 kids, makes $20k a year, pays $1k in federal withholding. Tax refund of about $8964.

That is an indictment of the American economy. 

[SKJ 1,311]

3 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

And they net thousands of dollars. Let's use turbotax for an estimate. Single mom, with 2 kids, makes $20k a year, pays $1k in federal withholding. Tax refund of about $8964.

Mostly they're being paid to breed.

Rearing children benefits the country, though. More cannon fodder for wars. That way you all don't have to send your kids, right?

[David Dennison 18,856]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Be thankful it affords the protection it does?  The fuck does that even mean?  

The govt provides the same to everyone, unless you are poor, then they will feed and house you as well. 

The state exists to protect the ruling class. 

[fattyflattie 4,639]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That is an indictment of the American economy. 

It’s an example of someone who should have gone to night school instead of collecting fuck trophies. 

[SKJ 1,311]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We are at tipping point in my household whether my wife continues working. It's almost net zero after certain QOL considerations are incorporated in the calculus. You increase the marginal rate at a particular threshold, and she's gonna drop out of the employment force .  It just doesn't make financial sense by my calculus.  

If you just look at our household on income level, we rate out fairly well. We also have two doctorates and a masters in the household.  We spent cumulative ~20 years in college and are still paying off our student loans (interest on which we are phased out of deducting). We are significantly behind most of our peer group in savings and 401k as result of extra years in school on academic stipends.  I give more to charity annually than the median american salary. I would have probably been financially better off taking up welding or auto body work out of high school at 18 which i seriously considered, but hey, I actually contribute quite a bit more in current role to population health and drug safety, despite being a few steps behind of the alternative paths. So you can rightly fuck off if you want to stick you hand in my pocket until Washington takes step one to reel in fucking spending and put us on a tenable financial path forward.  

First, tell me to fuck of again, tuffy. It really works.

Second, your cohorts in this thread, randomidiot et.al. will be telling you you should've made better choices.

 

Thirdly, all you fucks in this thread think the higher tax on the top quintile would affect you?

[David Dennison 18,856]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

It’s an example of someone who should have gone to night school instead of collecting fuck trophies. 

Perhaps. I have no doubt you should do a lot of things, too.

But it's also an indictment of the American economy.

[RandomIdoit 655]

2 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Mostly they're being paid to breed.

Rearing children benefits the country, though. More cannon fodder for wars. That way you all don't have to send your kids, right?

I wish everyone who was able-bodied and mentally fit that was on government assistance would choose to join the military. They would still be taken care of, but they would earn it. Not just get money for not making wise choices at the expense of those of us who did.

[Anastasis 23,469]

Just now, SKJ said:

First, tell me to fuck of again, tuffy. It really works.

Well, it was rightfully intended as the "royal you".  But if you want to take it personally, be my guest. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Anastasis

[SKJ 1,311]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

It’s an example of someone who should have gone to night school instead of collecting fuck trophies. 

Aaaand here we go...

Those fuck trophies are your future conscripts, right?

 

I mean, your a fucking half a billionaire, right?

If not, realize, we're not talking about your fucking taxes

THE GREATEST TRICK THE REPUBLICANS EVER PULLED WAS MAKING YOU MIDDLE CLASS FUCKS THINK THE LOWER CLASSES ARE COSTING YOU.

you already pay more than your fair share

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

19 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Again, this argument isn't solely about money.  I noticed that you didn't list whatever service for others you've ever done.  Citizenship to you appears to be just one thing: paying taxes.  

Surely you realize that many, many very poor people have served this country in ways that is priceless.  They are more important than you.

I pay for the food, medicine and schooling for 8 Haitian orphans.  Every month. Since 2003.  I think it’s now $400 a month. I could probably have swung a vacation house with the money I’ve spent down there between monthly donations, capital donations and travel  

I have over 1,000 pro bono hours with various low income people and entities.  Admittedly I’ve fallen off on that since I’ve had kids.  Weekends now are soccer and baseball plus several practices a week. But plan on doing more when I retire relatively young  

I got a nonviolent black drug offender who got dicked over by sentencing freed from a life without parole sentence.  I was a clerk for the federal judge who sentenced him.  And it made us both sick.   Got his sentence commuted.  He will be home by Christmas.  I credit Obama for that  and hope Trump follows his lead  

I also give ten points to my small church. But that doesn’t count, right?

Edited June 14, 2018 by Johnny Sack

[Anastasis 23,469]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

I pay for the food, medicine and schooling for 8 Haitian orphans.  Every month. Since 2003.  I think it’s now $400 a month. I could probably have swung a vacation house with the money I’ve spent down there between monthly donations, capital donations and travel  

 I have over 1,000 pro bono hours with various low income people and entities.  Admittedly I’ve fallen off on that since I’ve had kids.  Weekends now are soccer and baseball plus several practices a week. But plan on doing more when I retire relatively young  

 I got a nonviolent black drug offender who got dicked over by sentencing freed from a life without parole sentence.  I was a clerk for the federal judge who sentenced him.  And it made us both sick.   Got his sentence commuted.  He will be home by Christmas.  I credit Obama for that  and hope Trump follows his lead 

Oh yeah, well...

 

[SKJ 1,311]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I pay for the food, medicine and schooling for 8 Haitian orphans.  Every month. Since 2003.  I think it’s now $400 a month. I could probably have swung a vacation house with the money I’ve spent down there between monthly donations, capital donations and travel  

I have over 1,000 pro bono hours with various low income people and entities.  Admittedly I’ve fallen off on that since I’ve had kids.  Weekends now are soccer and baseball plus several practices a week. But plan on doing more when I retire relatively young  

I got a nonviolent black drug offender who got dicked over by sentencing freed from a life without parole sentence.  I was a clerk for the federal judge who sentenced him.  And it made us both sick.   Got his sentence commuted.  He will be home by Christmas.  I credit Obama for that  and hope Trump follows his lead  

I also give ten points to my small church. But that doesn’t count, right?

Aaand your life is still great.

Neat.

But if they raise your taxes 10%, what life choices are you gonna have to make?

Since I'll never be able to retire, what's another 10% to me, right?

[SKJ 1,311]

I'm amazed, though, that you support Trump so much, right?

I get it though... You love him for the tax cut.

But you should also hate him for the reckless spending, right? Considering he's the reason your FUTURE taxes will probably go up to try and pay for the dumbass shit he's doing.

I still can't understand how all you rich geniuses can't see this

[F250 28,770]

You putos aren't even having the same argument.

 

[SKJ 1,311]

Which definition of 'puto' are we using?

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

16 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Aaand your life is still great.

Neat.

But if they raise your taxes 10%, what life choices are you gonna have to make?

Since I'll never be able to retire, what's another 10% to me, right?

Keep working man.  You should be proud you bust your ass every day.  

And keep your eye out for opportunities.  They are out there.  

This country is great.  I know a Guatemalan guy who came here two years ago with nothing. Worked shit jobs but saved.  Bought a used truck and a pressure washer. He’s making a living running pressure washer crews from a humble beginning.  Started with just him.  Now he has three two man crews.  He’s making 6 figs net. 

I know had some legal issues. And that fucks you over. But you could do what this guy did.  And he barely speaks English.  

[F250 28,770]

12 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Which definition of 'puto' are we using?

Not the Filipino pastry one.

 

[SKJ 1,311]

So, male whore?

[fattyflattie 4,639]

29 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Aaaand here we go...

Those fuck trophies are your future conscripts, right?

 

I mean, your a fucking half a billionaire, right?

If not, realize, we're not talking about your fucking taxes

THE GREATEST TRICK THE REPUBLICANS EVER PULLED WAS MAKING YOU MIDDLE CLASS FUCKS THINK THE LOWER CLASSES ARE COSTING YOU.

you already pay more than your fair share

You aren’t talking about my contributions, fair enough. I know I could put to use that 9k from the single mom example.  Would go great towards my property taxes I’m certain she doesn’t contribute much to.  

You can raise or lower taxes, idgaf.  It’s what I signed up for.  I just want it to be fair. Getting 9k back because you are only skilled enough to bag my groceries is not fair.  Pay your 15-30% like everyone else and let’s move on. Maybe be a nurse, maybe drive a truck, maybe do whatever that makes more than 20k/yr, that’s a personal decision  

I have two friends that took over ~100m companies from their families once they got educated and into their 30’s. Oddly enough, both aggys with UT parents.   Y’all act like the rich are some elusive group that are nameless, faceless people hiding somewhere.  Both companies are multigenerational family businesses.  Both have a lifestyle they are going to live. You tax them more, they cut the jobs from more of your poor friends to maintain.  That’s how this shit works.  You tax enough they say fuck it and cash out and all the workers lose.  Each are supporting many hundreds of families, through their hard work.  

The rich aren’t evil people, they go to work for the same reasons you and I do, to make money. To retire.   Most in my experience, work harder than your average employee. Both above are divorced from constantly working and neglecting their family duties.  I have a problem with saying fuck these guys whose family’s have given tremendous amounts of wealth into society, we need more.  Bubba down at the trailer park had another baby and his food stamps aren’t going to cut it this month, he needs more because bad choices.  

[David Dennison 18,856]

17 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Keep working man.  You should be proud you bust your ass every day.  

And keep your eye out for opportunities.  They are out there.  

This country is great.  I know a Guatemalan guy who came here two years ago with nothing. Worked shit jobs but saved.  Bought a used truck and a pressure washer. He’s making a living running pressure washer crews from a humble beginning.  Started with just him.  Now he has three two man crews.  He’s making 6 figs net. 

I know had some legal issues. And that fucks you over. But you could do what this guy did.  And he barely speaks English.  

The flip side of this is that it's just as likely that someone in this country does all the right things and fails.

Luck has more to do with success and failure than any other metric. Most people simply can't accept that. 

[F250 28,770]

5 minutes ago, SKJ said:

So, male whore?

No, not really, more like man bitches.

 

 

 

[SKJ 1,311]

They're not going to cut jobs if their taxes go up. If they do, they're just not good at business.

A company that can't figure out how to invest in their own business will fail in their own right. But they'd probably blame taxes.

What CEO doesn't know how to compute NPV?