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Earl Thomas holding out

Goo Punch

By Goo Punch
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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49196

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3 minutes ago, NowThis said:

he was wrong to flip off his own teammates & coaches who have nothing to do with his contract. 

Think coaches have some input into keeping players long term.  

Several veteran players who helped win a Superbowl for Seattle seem to feel disrespected by the management of the Team.  Might be why Seattle is not a destination that many free agent veterans consider.

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IDIOTsavant

IDIOTsavant 8489

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Just now, LTtxfan said:

Think coaches have some input into keeping players long term.  

Several veteran players who helped win a Superbowl for Seattle seem to feel disrespected by the management of the Team.  Might be why Seattle is not a destination that many free agent veterans consider.

Also a huge assumption that this was done toward the entire team. Have a feeling it was directed solely at Pete Carroll.

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 47054

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Think coaches have some input into keeping players long term.  
Several veteran players who helped win a Superbowl for Seattle seem to feel disrespected by the management of the Team.  Might be why Seattle is not a destination that many free agent veterans consider.
I've been meaning to post a great article about the demise of Seattle behind the scenes. I think SI wrote it. It all starts with Russell Wilson and how coddled he is, especially by the coaches. They were supposed to great for a long time but fell apart quickly.
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UTexasFight

UTexasFight 9454

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I've been meaning to post a great article about the demise of Seattle behind the scenes. I think SI wrote it. It all starts with Russell Wilson and how coddled he is, especially by the coaches. They were supposed to great for a long time but fell apart quickly.

Yeah, read that the other day. I couldn’t get to the end because the guys quoted started sounding like a bunch of babies and the article too “witch hunt-y”, but clearly a completely lost locker room and toxic situation Carroll/ front office allowed to fester

Here is the link: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/09/07/seattle-seahawks-dismantling-rift-russell-wilson-pete-carroll?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3916

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36 minutes ago, Southernthunder said:

I don’t get why Seattle was supposed to be great for a while? I mean I don’t follow Seattle but what player that left went on to do great things? Teams get hot in the nfl and go on a run. Seattle did it twice. They’re still an above average team IMO and have a championship and been to another one. 

They tried to keep it going by signing a lot of their "core players"..... unfortunately it didn't work out well as guys like Kam Chancellor got hurt.  Most of the squeaky wheels were guys in their 30's who didn't get paid or guys who probably thought they were better than they were.  Golden Tate probably is the biggest name of anyone who moved on.  You have a lot of role players or guys who just started their new teams like Michael Bennett (where he's a solid rotational player) or Richard Sherman (who is hurt and not grading out well).  The SI article was more of a hit piece IMO.  A lot of whiny guys who didn't get deals they wanted and probably don't like the QB.  To me, Seattle feels a little like Pittsburgh with Ben.  Roethlisberger was pretty much the youngest core player on the team and in some ways the missing piece to their first SB run.  Pittsburgh won in part because of his affordable contract and when he came up for a bigger piece of the pie, the Steelers had to get rid of older, core players and turn over the roster.  It's simply what the salary cap does to most teams unless you have Brady taking under market deals and other FAs willing to do the same to go ring hunting.  Seattle is in the middle of turning over their roster.  The Steelers have been able to do so twice with Ben, each time only take a couple of seasons before getting back to championship contender status.  How long Seattle takes will rest in upper management's hands and specifically in Schneider's, who hasn't been all the good in rebuilding Seattle's OL on the fly....

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/is-it-really-all-over-inside-the-dismantling-of-the-seahawks-super-bowl-rosters/

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futureman

futureman 22468

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12 hours ago, LonghornJudas said:

 

I hope that wasn’t his last play.

he’s gonna be fine you nancies.  this is better long term than a sprained ankle.  he’ll be 100% by the offseason and without another year of wear on his body.  he’ll get a good contract.  this isn’t a big deal at all.  

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Guest

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Earl’s bird for Carroll is the closest that sumbeech has been to accountability for his cheaty, slimy, arrogant ways.

 

Good on Earl and guns up for a full recovery...and better landing spot.

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11316

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I'm a big Earl Thomas fan, but he was wrong to flip off Pete Carol, whom I despise.  Regardless of what roll Pete may or may have not played in whispering sweet nothings into Earl's ear, he and he alone made the decision to play.  I'm not a big fan of holdouts, because I think if you sign a contract, you should honor it, however, if you are going to do it, you need to commit to it, or deal with the consequences if you decide to play.  Le'Veon Bell is doing it right.  He knows his value and is refusing to risk injury.  He knows that he will get a contract next year that will more than make up for any lost wages for holding out.  Earl should have stuck to his guns and stayed away, but he decided to take the risks of playing a violent game.  I'm just glad it was *only* a broken leg.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32880

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2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I'm a big Earl Thomas fan, but he was wrong to flip off Pete Carol, whom I despise.  Regardless of what roll Pete may or may have not played in whispering sweet nothings into Earl's ear, he and he alone made the decision to play.  I'm not a big fan of holdouts, because I think if you sign a contract, you should honor it, however, if you are going to do it, you need to commit to it, or deal with the consequences if you decide to play.  Le'Veon Bell is doing it right.  He knows his value and is refusing to risk injury.  He knows that he will get a contract next year that will more than make up for any lost wages for holding out.  Earl should have stuck to his guns and stayed away, but he decided to take the risks of playing a violent game.  I'm just glad it was *only* a broken leg.

I thought Bell has to report by Week 11 if he wants that contract.

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Posted (edited)

Don’t they do insurance policies for situations like Earl’s, in case you get hurt?

I mean it gets to the point where betting on yourself is straight up lunacy. 

Edited by slorch
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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11780

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12 minutes ago, Chad said:

Exactly what James Harrison instructed him to do.

Except I read somewhere that the Steelers can go hardball as well, and put him on the inactive roster every week for the 6 weeks he reports- which would cause Bell to lose an entire year of NFL retirement tenure.

He would still get paid for the 6 weeks, but losing that year of tenure could be a significant FU from the Steelers   -  especially if it is the difference between him being a 9 year vet and a 10 year vet

Players receive contributions to the Player Annuity Program once they have earned their fourth credited season. The contribution amount for a credited season is $80,000 for 2014-2017 and $95,000 from 2018-2020. Players may choose to receive this benefit as early as age 35 and five years out of the league as a monthly annuity or in annual installments.

 

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C-Man

C-Man 27230

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I'm a big Earl Thomas fan, but he was wrong to flip off Pete Carol, whom I despise.  Regardless of what roll Pete may or may have not played in whispering sweet nothings into Earl's ear, he and he alone made the decision to play.  I'm not a big fan of holdouts, because I think if you sign a contract, you should honor it, however, if you are going to do it, you need to commit to it, or deal with the consequences if you decide to play.  Le'Veon Bell is doing it right.  He knows his value and is refusing to risk injury.  He knows that he will get a contract next year that will more than make up for any lost wages for holding out.  Earl should have stuck to his guns and stayed away, but he decided to take the risks of playing a violent game.  I'm just glad it was *only* a broken leg.


Did I not read that if Earl held out all season he wouldn’t advance to being a FA next offseason? Doesn’t La’Veon have the same situation?
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Hozz

Hozz 1017

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12 hours ago, IDIOTsavant said:

If you want to bemoan the lack of guaranteed salaries that's fine, but the rest of your statement is pretty much straight out of the Adam Sandler playbook. It's doesn't sound like you have any idea how the fifth year rookie deal option or transition/franchise tag works.not to mention any understanding of tuition reimbursement, severance pay, 401k match, pension, annuities, etc. It's absolutely an impressive package of benefits.

I'm not a GM but I think I have a pretty good handle on how it works.  The fifth year option for the team for first round picks is there for the team's benefit, not the players.  My point was that the NFL player's union sucks.  They signed a terrible CBA that is costing them billions of dollars over the life of the deal.

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IDIOTsavant

IDIOTsavant 8489

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23 minutes ago, Hozz said:

I'm not a GM but I think I have a pretty good handle on how it works.  The fifth year option for the team for first round picks is there for the team's benefit, not the players.  My point was that the NFL player's union sucks.  They signed a terrible CBA that is costing them billions of dollars over the life of the deal.

Those options when picked up aren't an extension of the current salary. For players drafted in the top 10 it is the equivalent of the transition tag. For the rest of round 1, it is similar but averages the salaries for the 3-20ish (can't remember if it's 20 or 25 off the top of my head) top salaries at their position instead of the top 10 like the transition tag. It is a substantial pay raise and is guaranteed more than a year out. I agree that the lack of guarantees is not ideal, but this is actually pretty fair compensation.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3916

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7 hours ago, 52-80 said:

What was earl holding out on tho?  He was the 3rd highest paid safety in the league.  Did he want to extend those terms?

Correct.  He wanted an extension with a number which more accurately was commensurate with his level of play.  And he wasn't holding out any longer.  He reported and was playing at the highest level.

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

I thought Bell has to report by Week 11 if he wants that contract.

He does.  6 games for a season of service.  Pittsburgh may keep in inactive after he reports, but that's their decision.  Steelers are 1-2-1.  Some of my Steelers friends think they may be 4-0 with Bell.  I think that's a little aggressive but 2-2 is almost assured with Bell.  

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11316

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1 hour ago, C-Man said:

 


Did I not read that if Earl held out all season he wouldn’t advance to being a FA next offseason? Doesn’t La’Veon have the same situation?

Not sure but as mentioned above, he could report and get a bad case of the sniffles...or turf toe. 

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SDG

SDG 3319

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14 hours ago, Southernthunder said:

I don’t get why Seattle was supposed to be great for a while? I mean I don’t follow Seattle but what player that left went on to do great things? Teams get hot in the nfl and go on a run. Seattle did it twice. They’re still an above average team IMO and have a championship and been to another one. 

Seattle went to three Super Bowls in 9 years.  They’ve been above average for a while.  

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Chooky

Chooky 13307

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4 hours ago, Hozz said:

My point was that the NFL player's union sucks.  They signed a terrible CBA that is costing them billions of dollars over the life of the deal.

I don't understand why this isn't a bigger topic within the topic.  Everyone involved in the player's union for the last 8 years should be embarrassed to admit it.  They got hilariously pantsed by ownership during the height of astronomical television contracts.  The fact that a "franchise tag" exists is bad enough.  The fact that the same player can be franchised three times in a row is a prison buttfucking.  Everything they did in 2011 seems now like it was only to avoid a lockout.  

There are definitely people here who know far more about how all of this works than me.  I'm sure the player's union has plenty of consulting work going out.  They'd still be better off pooling all of their dues toward nothing but a massive shark team of lawyers and staying out of the way.  Just disband the notion of a current or former player being the president.  Make DeMaurice Smith and whoever he wants to hire the hood ornament and either approve or disapprove of whatever they put together.  Also encourage the free agents who have the most options to blatantly punish certain teams in the most public way possible.     

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54238

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It doesn't matter who the NFLPA leader is -- Until the NFLPA is willing to strike for an entire season (at least), the owners will have their way and Smith or anyone else can't do anything about it.

The owners are worth billions, and they know that the players aren't, so they won't retain solidarity after a few weeks into a strike.  They also know that the fans will resume filling up stadiums as soon as a strike is over, and they have the media by nuts with they contracts they've signed.

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11780

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13 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Isn't the union's weakness a result in a great deal of it's members not being able to afford a work stoppage?  I'm kind of talking out of my ass, but that's the talking point I always hear.

well, that, and the understanding that the moment a strike is declared, the NFL will cancel the next weeks games, have open tryouts, hire 50 scabs, and put those 50 scabs on the field in 13 days, wearing the NFL logo's with each game counting for real.   

The TV stations will be charged full price, the tickets will be full price, the pay per view (or sunday ticket) will be full price.

 

in short, the owners will make a literal shitton because they will be paying the scabs absolute bare minimum salaries, while getting paid as if the high priced talent were playing.   So even  cancelling one real game, the money is made up in the next 4 scab games on salary savings alone.

another issue is that all other major N American sports leagues have a much longer schedule, so their players dont go 8 full months, plus an extra week or 2 if they dont make the playoffs, from getting paid.  

MLB has 6 months regular season,   NBA & NHL both have 6 month regular seasons as well. 

Those extra 2 plus months without any income coming in is what kills half the NFLPA members because they cant fucking budget themselves through the year, and take loans out in Feb to be paid back in Sept to pay for their fucking lifestyle from Jan- Aug......  

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12883

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10 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

well, that, and the understanding that the moment a strike is declared, the NFL will cancel the next weeks games, have open tryouts, hire 50 scabs, and put those 50 scabs on the field in 13 days, wearing the NFL logo's with each game counting for real.    

The TV stations will be charged full price, the tickets will be full price, the pay per view (or sunday ticket) will be full price. 

 

in short, the owners will make a literal shitton because they will be paying the scabs absolute bare minimum salaries, while getting paid as if the high priced talent were playing.   So even  cancelling one real game, the money is made up in the next 4 scab games on salary savings alone.

another issue is that all other major N American sports leagues have a much longer schedule, so their players dont go 8 full months, plus an extra week or 2 if they dont make the playoffs, from getting paid.  

MLB has 6 months regular season,   NBA & NHL both have 6 month regular seasons as well. 

Those extra 2 plus months without any income coming in is what kills half the NFLPA members because they cant fucking budget themselves through the year, and take loans out in Feb to be paid back in Sept to pay for their fucking lifestyle from Jan- Aug......  

It also didn't help that for much of the 80s, Gene Upshaw was such a shit leader for the NFLPA.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2556517

They have needed better leadership, I think (and hope) DeMaurice Smith is a step in the right direction.

Hozz and IDIOTsavant have debated the rookie scaling. They missed one big deal about it - it's made a huge cheap labor pool for the owners to get talent from. You have an aging vet that is good/serviceable? Because he's a vet, he's also higher priced. That guy can be dumped because you can take a flyer on a rookie and pay him a slotted salary , if he works out - BONUS, if he doesn't, he's probably a lot cheaper than the vet.

In the end, there is no two ways about this - Owners suck.

I wish the best for Earl in this - hope he heals up 100% and comes back and gets paid.

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4007

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Didn't the rookie slot salary shift a big portion of the salary cap from rookie contracts to veteran contracts?  That's a good thing if you are a veteran right.  I mean are there teams out there right now substantially under the salary cap refusing to spend money, or all they all right around the salary cap?

Edited by Gene Parmesan
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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11780

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5 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Didn't the rookie slot salary shift a big portion of the salary cap from rookie contracts to veteran contracts?  That's a good thing if you are a veteran right.  I mean are there teams out there right now substantially under the salary cap refusing to spend money, or all they all right around the salary cap?

it also set a salary floor- 95% of the total cap.  Meaning no cheapskate owners like Baseball has.   and since the younger players are locked into rookie contracts, it means the big bucks goes to the vets...... although more and more, its going to the fucking QBs

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DallasGatr

DallasGatr 216

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Posted (edited)

Unlike the other major sports, football players have very little leverage.  They have on average around a 4 year career.  As the union leader you're going to convince them to take a year off of that career?  The 2nd year player making around 500k ain't gonna keep making it rain when that half a mill goes away.  The owners know this and also know they can get 50 scrubs off the street and take nary a dent financially.  NFL players are properly fucked.

Edited by DallasGatr
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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52506

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6 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Agree with that.  If anything some of these players have got to be looking at the QB and thinking WTF.  I mean it's one thing to pay Rogers his money, it's another to drop down 10-15 pegs and pay that guy insane money while telling everyone else to hit the bricks. 

Like garoffolo’s deal after how many starts?

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