Just how down is ou?

[TexArcher 38081]

At this point, it seems like the best case for ou is that they're in more or less the same spot Texas was in during Year 1 of Charlie Strong's tenure: you've got a bunch of problems with no quick fixes, and your head coach is really a coordinator, but you kinda can't fire him after one season.  Multi-year rebuild incoming.  Best case.

And the worst case for ou is that they're going the route of Nebraska after Tom Osborne.  Dare we dream?  Well, the fact that ou was willing to pay players (Big Red Auto) when it was illegal doesn't help them anymore.  And there's nothing sexy about life in Norman, Oklahoma, so the one thing they had to recruit with was their superstar head coach, and they hit the lottery on that front twice in a row.  And that is gone.

So, how long do the sooners figure to be in the 4+ loss club?   A couple of years?  Or are they a former superpower with only minimal relevance going forward, like Nebraska or Portugal?

I don't know.  But I freaking love that it's a reasonable question.

Bless you, Lincoln Riley.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

It all started to collapse when recruits began realizing the O stood for Oklahoma. 

[babysdaddy 2728]

Nebraska is their fate

[Slacks 6888]

Ask again in ten years.

[TwiceHorn 31624]

Nah, Nebraska is a special case.  They're a less attractive option than other B10 schools for the big midwest farm boys and other recruits and have lost that running game offense cachet they once had that no one wants to play in anymore.

Even when OU was bad, they still recruited Texas well.  Blake baked a pretty good cake for Stoops.

But, coaching hires involve a lot of luck, basically.  They got lucky, and maybe a little smart, with Stoops, and then Riley for a while.

Edited October 9, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Celery Man 21017]

I briefly did the thought exercise of “is it bad for Texas if OU is not competitive” and decided fuck’em

[Tailgate 3024]

When I was walking back into the hotel right after the game, OU fans were already departing with suitcases. Checkout is 11am…so you know they had planned on staying last night as well. They wanted to GTFO of town ASAP. 

[ClubWhatever 12159]

Let me know when he hires Shawn Watson. 

[52-80 19271]

Dont care

[hpslugga 4065]

25 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Nebraska is their fate

It could very well be. They picked a shitty time to hire Venables with the looming SEC relocation and all that. That team is gonna have a hard enough time beating those lower East division teams.

[deadshank 24653]

Did Riley leave the cupboard bare?  It’s obvious the guy can coach.  
 

Is Venables and the new staff just awful?   Too early to tell?  
 

For the players left behind do they feel rejected and demoralized having “their” coach leave for a bigger better deal?  Now they’re just playing out their dealt hand?  Is there deadwood to cut away?
 

When is the last time a Longhorn coach left for another job on his own volition?  Ever?  
 

Editor’s note:  I’m not concerned about nor worried for OU’s well being.  They could lose every game 5 years and I’d be pleased as punch. 

[futureman 22559]

2 minutes ago, deadshank said:

on his own volition?

of

[MotownHorn 1798]

23 minutes ago, Tailgate said:

When I was walking back into the hotel right after the game, OU fans were already departing with suitcases. Checkout is 11am…so you know they had planned on staying last night as well. They wanted to GTFO of town ASAP. 

Maybe they remembered someone left the hot plate on back at the trailer and needed to get home before it burned down 

[closetojumping 62898]

The answer lies in the original post. The right coach fixes the problems at whatever school he’s at and the rest is largely bullshit. Get a high quality and the problems melt away.

I don’t know if Sarkisian is the guy and he’s still Seven Loss Steve until he isn’t, but I do feel like we can see what a difference he is in overall competence compared to Herman, Strong and even late stage Mack. I do feel like Venables measured against even early Stoops or Riley looks like Chuckles-level incompetent by comparison. That’s gratifying to witness and I hope they hang on to him for half a decade. 

I don’t want Venables gone until someone besides Castiglione is calling the shots. 

[Goredho 17427]

1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

At this point, it seems like the best case for ou is that they're in more or less the same spot Texas was in during Year 1 of Charlie Strong's tenure: you've got a bunch of problems with no quick fixes, and your head coach is really a coordinator, but you kinda can't fire him after one season.  Multi-year rebuild incoming.  Best case.

And the worst case for ou is that they're going the route of Nebraska after Tom Osborne.  Dare we dream?  Well, the fact that ou was willing to pay players (Big Red Auto) when it was illegal doesn't help them anymore.  And there's nothing sexy about life in Norman, Oklahoma, so the one thing they had to recruit with was their superstar head coach, and they hit the lottery on that front twice in a row.  And that is gone.

So, how long do the sooners figure to be in the 4+ loss club?   A couple of years?  Or are they a former superpower with only minimal relevance going forward, like Nebraska or Portugal?

I don't know.  But I freaking love that it's a reasonable question.

Bless you, Lincoln Riley.

Short answer is really fucking down, but I think it is bigger than OU.  I think there will be college football before 2021 and college football after 2021.  NIL, transfer portal, super conferences, all that is just getting started.  It is a tectonic shift for college football.

In 10-20 years, there are going to be a handful of teams capable of recruiting like and amassing the talent like Alabama has in the last 10 years, and they very well may not include not only Oklahoma, but Alabama.  Texas has the GDP of Russia, the 10th largest economy in the world.  Oklahoma and Alabama has the GDP of Kazakhstan.  The alumni base of these flagship state universities can now legally pay football players whatever their business and personal finances allow.  Thus, College Football has become a professional league without a salary cap to enforce relative parity.  In such a world, a Nick Saban might never stick at Alabama because he could never financially compete with USC, Texas, A&M, etc... for first choice of talent.

This was part of Lincoln Riley's calculus when leaving OU for USC.  It was at the root of Saban trashing Jimbo Fisher for "paying players."  Few programs will be better positioned than Texas to succeed in this new world.  We have large, wealthy alumni base imbued with a college football culture bordering on religion.  As does A&M, USC, and some others.  Oklahoma, Alabama, they can match the culture, but they aren't going to match the money that can be brought to bear for player talent.

Unless there are some sort of measures put in place to equalize what players can make at universities with disparate alumni economics, there are going to be a lot of new Nebraskas littering the college football landscape.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Goredho

[TwiceHorn 31624]

13 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Did Riley leave the cupboard bare?  It’s obvious the guy can coach.  
 

Is Venables and the new staff just awful?   Too early to tell?  
 

For the players left behind do they feel rejected and demoralized having “their” coach leave for a bigger better deal?  Now they’re just playing out their dealt hand?  Is there deadwood to cut away?
 

When is the last time a Longhorn coach left for another job on his own volition?  Ever?  
 

Editor’s note:  I’m not concerned about nor worried for OU’s well being.  They could lose every game 5 years and I’d be pleased as punch. 

I think the consensus is that defensive recruiting was falling off and the offensive talent mostly went with Riley, or elsewhere.

[TexArcher 38081]

4 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I think there will be college football before 2021 and college football after 2021.  NIL, transfer portal, super conferences, all that is just getting started.  It is a tectonic shift for college football.

Agree with this.  It's clear that the SEC, ou, and probably some others were paying players before NIL.  Now that everyone can do it, and players can really build a brand, I believe that the future of college football lies in the sexier destinations that have bottomless alumni pockets.  NIL should be great for Texas, USC, Oregon, and even Miami.  It figures to really hurt ou, maybe Ohio State, and maybe even the SEC schools that aren't in Florida.  There's a reason Saban is pissed about all of this.  

[billfromlaketravis 11553]

They’re going to have evaluate well. At best they’ll be getting UT and aggy’s leftovers in Texas. Scouting, player development, and coaching need to be elite to overcome that. 
 

It can be done, but Venables isn’t the man for the job. 
 

[gmr548 16617]

Nebraska isn’t their fate. OU will be fine if they hit on coaching hires. Venables is looking rough but I’ll wait until next year to fully form an opinion. Is a fair point that he was left a uniquely gutted program and he should probably get a pass to some degree for taking lumps in Year 1. But yeah, not tending well.

[The Dog 44171]

I’m just happy they finally made a bad hire. He’s John Blake bad.

[MirrOlure 14870]

I still can’t fathom that they hired the same dude they ran off as DC a few years ago. I am afraid that the stakes are too high with the conference move and that barring some miracle turnaround that he’ll be fired after next year.

Maybe they’ll fall for it again and hire Muschamp!

[Helobious 9467]

A good coach would have them as competitive as ever, or at least close to it. Venables is not a good coach. 

[Rockethorn1978 6109]

One thing I saw yesterday that is true and that a great qb makes a world of difference. And they ain’t got one right now. Maybe they got through the portal again and probably will have too and get a great qb recruit in to develop behind him. That defense is dog shit too so they have a ton of work to do. 

[LTtxfan 49378]

19 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Nebraska isn’t their fate. OU will be fine if they hit on coaching hires. Venables is looking rough but I’ll wait until next year to fully form an opinion. Is a fair point that he was left a uniquely gutted program and he should probably get a pass to some degree for taking lumps in Year 1. But yeah, not tending well.

A big issue for Venables is the terrible staff he hired on defense.  If Lebby gets QBs, WRs and a decent RB their offense will get better.

[closetojumping 62898]

13 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Nebraska isn’t their fate. OU will be fine if they hit on coaching hires. Venables is looking rough but I’ll wait until next year to fully form an opinion. Is a fair point that he was left a uniquely gutted program and he should probably get a pass to some degree for taking lumps in Year 1. But yeah, not tending well.

Maybe, but here’s something to think about regarding Venables and his staff. I haven’t seen the following mentioned anywhere, albeit I didn’t read the OU game thread after being at the game, but the OU staff stopped gathering the position groups into huddles on the sideline midway through the second half yesterday. They fucking quit as a staff with more than a quarter to play. That doesn’t bode well for a turnaround. 

When Mack Brown’s 1998 team went down big for a second straight game against UCLA, the whole staff and team did the opposite of what we saw from OU. That team kept playing and attempted a comeback against a superior opponent. They played all the way through the final whistle and the end result wasn’t fully disastrous. It also set a tone for the rest of that season that he and others have mentioned over the years. 

Similarly but even more absurdly, Stoops took his team into the Cotton Bowl in 1999 and they really believed they were winning that game. They went up big early and then tried to hang on. They were crushed when they lost and their fans on the boards proclaimed that Stoops was doing “big  things” and would bring them back to national prominence. We mocked them for it. 

Anyway, there was none of that fight in OU or their staff yesterday. If a puppy is going to be a big dog, he is going to bite you hard early. I don’t see that, again, gratefully, with Venables and crew. 

[closetojumping 62898]

2 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

A big issue for Venables is the terrible staff he hired on defense.  If Lebby gets QBs, WRs and a decent RB their offense will get better.

Lebby has WRs and TBs that everyone recruited. Sorry, but saying otherwise is pure boloney. 

[gmr548 16617]

Maybe, but here’s something to think about regarding Venables and his staff. I haven’t seen the following mentioned anywhere, albeit I didn’t read the OU game thread after being at the game, but the OU staff stopped gathering the position groups into huddles on the sideline midway through the second half yesterday. They fucking quit as a staff with more than a quarter to play. That doesn’t bode well for a turnaround. 
When Mack Brown’s 1998 team went down big for a second straight game against UCLA, the whole staff and team did the opposite of what we saw from OU. That team kept playing and attempted a comeback against a superior opponent. They played all the way through the final whistle and the end result wasn’t fully disastrous. It also set a tone for the rest of that season that he and others have mentioned over the years. 
Similarly but even more absurdly, Stoops took his team into the Cotton Bowl in 1999 and they really believed they were winning that game. They went up big early and then tried to hang on. They were crushed when they lost and their fans on the boards proclaimed that Stoops was doing “big  things” and would bring them back to national prominence. We mocked them for it. 
Anyway, there was none of that fight in OU or their staff yesterday. If a puppy is going to be a big dog, he is going to bite you hard early. I don’t see that, again, gratefully, with Venables and crew. 

Didn’t catch that, but agree. They really did quit yesterday. It was very strange to see. I was pissed they got the ball back with two minutes left or whatever it was because I thought they had a good chance of scoring on Texas’s 9th string defense and ruining the shut out.

Running the clock out on the final possession when you have 0 on the board on the Cotton Bowl is… Something. One of several things from yesterday I can’t imagine the locker room will respond well to.

[Js1 85636]

Just now, gmr548 said:

Didn’t catch that, but agree. They really did quit yesterday. It was very strange to see. I was pissed they got the ball back with two minutes left or whatever it was because I thought they had a good chance of scoring on Texas’s 9th string defense and ruining the shut out.

Running the clock out on the final possession when you have 0 on the board on the Cotton Bowl is… Something. One of several things from yesterday I can’t imagine the locker room will respond well to.

I hope they lose the rest of their games but still beat OSU in bedlam for the sheer lulz of it

[Doze 1322]

Is there a "Fire Brent Venables" thread on their forums yet?

Does it say "we gotta have Saban but will settle for Urban"?

[Brian Fantana 6692]

10 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

A big issue for Venables is the terrible staff he hired on defense.  If Lebby gets QBs, WRs and a decent RB their offense will get better.

Lebby is a dumb, fat piece of shit that's doing nothing but failing upward. Trust me, I grew up with him. He's useless like the rest of his family.

[Wulaw Horn 19153]

55 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

The answer lies in the original post. The right coach fixes the problems at whatever school he’s at and the rest is largely bullshit. Get a high quality and the problems melt away.

I don’t know if Sarkisian is the guy and he’s still Seven Loss Steve until he isn’t, but I do feel like we can see what a difference he is in overall competence compared to Herman, Strong and even late stage Mack. I do feel like Venables measured against even early Stoops or Riley looks like Chuckles-level incompetent by comparison. That’s gratifying to witness and I hope they hang on to him for half a decade. 

I don’t want Venables gone until someone besides Castiglione is calling the shots. 

Sark is good at the most important thing to be good at in College football- offensive talent collection and play calling. You can’t win a national championship on that alone, and you need some other good traits (he seems to have the soft skills for this job, and everyone likes him) and someone competent on defense, but I really really hope you are going to have to retire this 7 win Steve bit (it’s fair until it isn’t) at the end of the year. It is kind of gutting to think he’d have hit his nickname in week 7 after beating ISU next week if not for an injury to the mulleted one. Long term I just don’t see how this doesn’t work out if Ewers and Arch stay healthy and in the fold and Sark reasonable approximates sobriety. 
 

longer term, you are right about the right guy making a programs problems go away. Coaching is so important at this level, and you can just see that anywhere can become a relevant program with the right guy. Mike Leech gets Tech to 11-1 and then gets Wazzu to big bowls and relevance before having Klan aggy looking like a top 10 team in year 3 (or is it 4). Fleck doing interesting things in Minnesota. Rutgers was good for a minute with the proper sociopath. Nobody should ever feel like a situation is hopeless but in the world of NIL where OU loses their strategic advantage in cheating that job has a much lower floor than it used to, and I’m super excited to see OU explore that floor over the next 2.5 years before they shit can BV- who was a terrible hire from the word go and in way over his head. 
 

Also, really looking forward to turning Alabama into Nebraska over the next decade. 

[Red Five 40952]

6 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Running the clock out on the final possession when you have 0 on the board on the Cotton Bowl is… Something. One of several things from yesterday I can’t imagine the locker room will respond well to.

I don't think we threw a pass after sometime around late 3rd quarter. Seemed like a mutual calling off of the dogs in the 4th. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

I was in the cotton bowl for John Blake’s last RRS. What they trotted out yesterday was almost, ALMOST, as bad as that team.

Wouldn’t it be great watching them limp into the SEC and proceed to spend the next 2+ decades mired in Arkansas level mediocrity? A man can dream.

[Sbbruin 21900]

Reminds me of “Lost in America” where Albert Brooks asks Gary Marshall how down she was at the roulette table.  “Down”.

[lilMAC25 3824]

Whatever hole they’re in, it ain’t deep enough yet. I’d be so very gruntled if they lost the next 5 (decades).

Edited October 9, 2022 by lilMAC25

[LTtxfan 49378]

Fyi... Game Replay now (9am CT) on LHN  !!! 🤘

[gmr548 16617]

I hope they lose the rest of their games but still beat OSU in bedlam for the sheer lulz of it

I hope OSU beats them 51-0 so they lose the RRS and Bedlam 100-0.

[Horn80 6135]

34 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I’m just happy they finally made a bad hire. He’s John Blake bad.

He is a bad and like others have said they already ran him off before so, there’s a portion of OU fan base that wasn’t thrilled with his hiring from day 1.  I don’t know if he can ever recover from the Texas beat down yesterday.  That rotting dead fish will hang around his neck for a long time and OU fans will be hair trigger to see him go with more loses.

[GabrielsHorn 2186]

Think the regression in the OL is also a big key to why they can’t do anything. I wonder how much of their prominence was due to Riley’s offense because they’ve looked awful this year. 
 

I don’t think Venables is the answer to their woes, but that roster is pretty thin at key positions. QB was essentially one person only and their secondary is a joke without Bowman (and even with him). 
 

glad that OU finally fucked up on a HC hire. 

[troph 24915]

25 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Maybe, but here’s something to think about regarding Venables and his staff. I haven’t seen the following mentioned anywhere, albeit I didn’t read the OU game thread after being at the game, but the OU staff stopped gathering the position groups into huddles on the sideline midway through the second half yesterday. They fucking quit as a staff with more than a quarter to play. That doesn’t bode well for a turnaround. 

When Mack Brown’s 1998 team went down big for a second straight game against UCLA, the whole staff and team did the opposite of what we saw from OU. That team kept playing and attempted a comeback against a superior opponent. They played all the way through the final whistle and the end result wasn’t fully disastrous. It also set a tone for the rest of that season that he and others have mentioned over the years. 

Similarly but even more absurdly, Stoops took his team into the Cotton Bowl in 1999 and they really believed they were winning that game. They went up big early and then tried to hang on. They were crushed when they lost and their fans on the boards proclaimed that Stoops was doing “big  things” and would bring them back to national prominence. We mocked them for it. 

Anyway, there was none of that fight in OU or their staff yesterday. If a puppy is going to be a big dog, he is going to bite you hard early. I don’t see that, again, gratefully, with Venables and crew. 

If a puppy is going to be a big dog, he is going to bite you hard early.  Year 2, Texas bit Bama hard, Texas strangled OU. 7 win Steve until he’s not, but no back to back losses this year, and two signature games - one the worst loss ever handed to Ou with an egg on the board? Sounds promising to me.

[Murfdogg21 4432]

2 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

It all started to collapse when recruits began realizing the O stood for Oklahoma. 

Since when did they recruit players who could read?

 

[Pato del Muerto 52639]

Unlike Charlie’s first year, ou has the portal and going forward will have the sec to sell. 
 

those things should make for a quicker path back. Is that with BV?  Doesn’t look promising but I want to see year 2 before making a declaration on him.  They got pretty well screwed by Riley. 

[closetojumping 62898]

1 minute ago, troph said:

If a puppy is going to be a big dog, he is going to bite you hard early.  Year 2, Texas bit Bama hard, Texas strangled OU. 7 win Steve until he’s not, but no back to back losses this year, and two signature games - one the worst loss ever handed to Ou with an egg on the board? Sounds promising to me.

I don’t know when I will feel like Sarkisian can win a national title at Texas, if ever. Maybe when Texas makes a CFP appearance. Maybe someday when Texas is discussed as relevant in the playoff discussion. Hell, maybe if he just wins the fucking conference. But that isn’t today and that’s the only achievement that I measure a coach at Texas by, for better or worse. I certainly think everyone’s personal excitement about how they’re experiencing things makes plenty of sense.

My hesitation in buying is simple still -we saw incompetence last year that wasn’t solely on talent of the roster. We saw it again in the second half against Tech. I am excited about what we’re seeing nonetheless. If Sarkisian leads Texas to a great finish this year, I’ll be as happy as anyone. I don’t pay for part of a suite, pay for part of and help invent an NIL model that the entire country is now replicating, and travel to watch Texas in order to permanently suffer, so fuck yeah, keep winning. The guy has the conference there for the taking this year, so here’s hoping he takes the opportunity by the horns, if you will. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

2 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I don’t know when I will feel like Sarkisian can win a national title at Texas, if ever. Maybe when Texas makes a CFP appearance. Maybe someday when Texas is discussed as relevant in the playoff discussion. Hell, maybe if he just wins the fucking conference. But that isn’t today and that’s the only achievement that I measure a coach at Texas by, for better or worse. I certainly think everyone’s personal excitement about how they’re experiencing things makes plenty of sense.

My hesitation in buying is simple still -we saw incompetence last year that wasn’t solely on talent of the roster. We saw it again in the second half against Tech. I am excited about what we’re seeing nonetheless. If Sarkisian leads Texas to a great finish this year, I’ll be as happy as anyone. I don’t pay for part of a suite, pay for part of and help invent an NIL model that the entire country is now replicating, and travel to watch Texas in order to permanently suffer, so fuck yeah, keep winning. The guy has the conference there for the taking this year, so here’s hoping he takes the opportunity by the horns, if you will. 

My bar is simple: prove you can field the best team in your conference.

[Brothahorn 10087]

Not down enough for my tastes. Because of their ties to us they won't get to Nebraska level. But I want them so broken they can only get 2&3 stars from Texas. No decent big time recruit will want anything to do with them. They have lived off Texas long enough.

Also the last 3 weeks have proven that preseason rankings are trash and should not be used in any serious conversation. These bitches went into the season highly ranked on what exactly?

Fuck 0u!

[Horn Dogg 3981]

1 hour ago, MotownHorn said:

Maybe they remembered someone left the hot plate on back at the trailer and needed to get home before it burned down 

Nah, they drove their house to the game.

[bullet 1599]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Nah, Nebraska is a special case.  They're a less attractive option than other B10 schools for the big midwest farm boys and other recruits and have lost that running game offense cachet they once had that no one wants to play in anymore.

Even when OU was bad, they still recruited Texas well.  Blake baked a pretty good cake for Stoops.

But, coaching hires involve a lot of luck, basically.  They got lucky, and maybe a little smart, with Stoops, and then Riley for a while.

And maybe Riley knew something the rest of us didn't when he cut and ran for the coast.  His cupboard may have been empty.  And he took what was valuable there with him.

[hayden_horn 11365]

42 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Didn’t catch that, but agree. They really did quit yesterday. It was very strange to see. I was pissed they got the ball back with two minutes left or whatever it was because I thought they had a good chance of scoring on Texas’s 9th string defense and ruining the shut out.

Running the clock out on the final possession when you have 0 on the board on the Cotton Bowl is… Something. One of several things from yesterday I can’t imagine the locker room will respond well to.

 

33 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I don't think we threw a pass after sometime around late 3rd quarter. Seemed like a mutual calling off of the dogs in the 4th. 

might could be but i was fucking shocked and kind of a little mad and disappointed at how they capitulated there at the end. 

i would be on the "fire whoever" bandwagon for that level of quit in that big a rivalry. jesus, it was kind of sad if it wasn't so fucking glorious

[troph 24915]

6 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I don’t know when I will feel like Sarkisian can win a national title at Texas, if ever. Maybe when Texas makes a CFP appearance. Maybe someday when Texas is discussed as relevant in the playoff discussion. Hell, maybe if he just wins the fucking conference. But that isn’t today and that’s the only achievement that I measure a coach at Texas by, for better or worse. I certainly think everyone’s personal excitement about how they’re experiencing things makes plenty of sense.

My hesitation in buying is simple still -we saw incompetence last year that wasn’t solely on talent of the roster. We saw it again in the second half against Tech. I am excited about what we’re seeing nonetheless. If Sarkisian leads Texas to a great finish this year, I’ll be as happy as anyone. I don’t pay for part of a suite, pay for part of and help invent an NIL model that the entire country is now replicating, and travel to watch Texas in order to permanently suffer, so fuck yeah, keep winning. The guy has the conference there for the taking this year, so here’s hoping he takes the opportunity by the horns, if you will. 

I’m barely in the don’t care anymore category. Very much a wait and see mode so I’m not projecting anything here.  I was simply stating that if evidence of winning big later is present early in future champions then this year at least has started with those embryonic positive outcomes. Will he win big? I’m not really that interested in spending mental energy on asking and answering it, I’d rather focus my intensity elsewhere and just go along for the ride here. 

[Duane Moore 5250]

36 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Coaching is so important at this level, and you can just see that anywhere can become a relevant program with the right guy. Mike Leech gets Tech to 11-1 and then gets Wazzu to big bowls and relevance before having Klan aggy looking like a top 10 team in year 3 (or is it 4). Fleck doing interesting things in Minnesota. Rutgers was good for a minute with the proper sociopath.

Throw Josh Heupel in there as well. 18 months out from inheriting a smoking crater in Knoxville and they are hosting a matchup of undefeated top ten teams next week against Bama with a real shot to win it.