Just how down is ou?

[Pimphand 6371]

16 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Watching OU QB play yesterday certainly made me appreciate Hudson Card.  OU is a bad team regardless with a bad defense but they won't win another game without DG at QB.  I know I read before the season somewhere that OU was in trouble if they lost Gabriel for any meaningful games but that was a massive understatement.  

I just dont know why they didnt at least run the General out there for a few drives. It isnt like Venables will be around long enough to reap the benefits of redshirting him.

[troph 25229]

2 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

Not down enough for my tastes. Because of their ties to us they won't get to Nebraska level. But I want them so broken they can only get 2&3 stars from Texas. No decent big time recruit will want anything to do with them. They have lived off Texas long enough.

Also the last 3 weeks have proven that preseason rankings are trash and should not be used in any serious conversation. These bitches went into the season highly ranked on what exactly?

Fuck 0u!




 

On what? They are a media darling why I have no idea. They always have been though.

[troph 25229]

1 hour ago, bschoolprof said:

Venables will get 3 years at most.  He sucks.  Being a long-time DC and getting passed over for HC gigs along the way is a major red flag. See Strong, Charles.  

I wish OU all the luck we had over the last decade in trying to find a good HC.  I think they've again entered their Garry Gibbs, Howard Schnellenberger, John Blake era.  

 

This would be beautiful with only a 13 game lead in the all time, Texas needs to double that over the next 20 years.

[troph 25229]

58 minutes ago, UTEE97 said:

This. Venables saw Sark was doing him a solid by calling off the dogs early in the 4Q. Only a dick like Stoops would have returned the favor by trying to score meaningless points in the waning seconds of the game. Not to mention, they probably would have failed and made themselves look petty on top of being incompetent.

If I was an OU fan I’d be pissed they quit trying to avoid the shut out. 

[oSuJeff97 3439]

15 minutes ago, Pimphand said:

NIL and the transfer portal probably mean the end of OU being a college football blue blood but they will never fall off the cliff like Nebraska as long as they continue to play in Texas which they will do even in the SEC.

Nebraska was the perfect storm of stupid. They relocated to the Big 10 fifteen years too late. Had they moved when they were at their peak they could have impressed their conference mates and likely continued to recruit despite losing every single rivalry. Instead they made the move when they were mediocre and they have now finished the transition to full blown doormat. Nobody in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Philly, NYC,or Baltimore want to go to the cornfields to try and rebuild a doormat they never remember being good.

They definitely won’t fall off the cliff like Corn, but I’m not sure I agree with the part about the end of OU being a blue blood.  They still have all of the resources of being an elite blue blood program; have good access to a fertile recruiting area and will be in the Prestige Worldwide conference, so they’ll have plenty of money to invest in the program.

They are one good coaching hire away from being right back where they were.

I think the thing that NIL and transfer portal does is actually make it more difficult to find the right coach because you need a guy who knows how to really work that system to their advantage. But with the right coach, they’ll be fine. If BV truly flames out this year and next, they will back up the Brinks truck to get Heupel from Tennessee, and he would likely jump at the offer.

[Dewey 3332]

Oklahoma as a state will do whatever it takes to have a good ou football team, if that means cutting public healthcare and limiting one child per couple, so be it. They will not sit there with Brent V for long. 

[UTEE97 3937]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

If I was an OU fan I’d be pissed they quit trying to avoid the shut out. 

They tried to score all game and failed. It's not like they just put in Caleb Williams and the coaches didn't let him make a throw. Regardless of what the diehard OU fans would have liked, it was clear they could not throw the ball. I think it would have resulted in a pick 6 to end the game if they had tried.

[AnTiM 1695]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

With all due respect, fuck that. Nothing would be more fun than stringing off 10 smooth buttfuckings on the order of yesterday’s raping.
 

If I could steal a line from the fat fucking retard, the cameras constantly panning to gooners holding back tears was borderline erotic.

This:  I will be happy when I see us put more points up their ass than the 63 they enjoyed running up a few years ago.

[closetohumping 17818]

IMO, this isn't an anomaly.  OU's program has historically sold "we own Texas, we own this conference, come play for a dynamic offense."  Now what?  You're not gonna own the SEC, even at your best you wouldn't have.  Offense?  I think they'll be a slightly above average SEC team.

[troph 25229]

5 minutes ago, UTEE97 said:

They tried to score all game and failed. It's not like they just put in Caleb Williams and the coaches didn't let him make a throw. Regardless of what the diehard OU fans would have liked, it was clear they could not throw the ball. I think it would have resulted in a pick 6 to end the game if they had tried.

You said both sides called off the dogs? Anyway I don’t really give a shit. Ou can DIAGF.

[ALexusTexus7 114]

Texas ran through OU like the 2nd round of stimulus checks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[troph 25229]

3 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

IMO, this isn't an anomaly.  OU's program has historically sold "we own Texas, we own this conference, come play for a dynamic offense."  Now what?  You're not gonna own the SEC, even at your best you wouldn't have.  Offense?  I think they'll be a slightly above average SEC team.

I’m not here to agree or disagree but I will say that tectonic shifts have unpredictable outcomes. Big 12 forms Nebraska falls and then bolts to the Big 10 and falls harder. A&M goes to the SEC and Texas falters as the Texas coaching carousel and SEC presence in our recruiting hood makes matters worse. Texas and OU going to the SEC will have a tremendous impact, NIL too, portal as well. The lasting outcome from these changes really could tank OU, might not, and their drive to win is strong, but the same was said of Nebraska in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. It’s far from known what the next 5-10 years means for OU and we haven’t seen this level of uncertainty since the 1990s for them. I love it.

[closetohumping 17818]

4 hours ago, TexArcher said:

, ou, and probably

 

3 hours ago, closetojumping said:

 

Anyway, there was none of that fight in OU or their staff yesterday. If a puppy is going to be a big dog, he is going to bite you hard early. I don’t see that, again, gratefully, with Venables and crew. 

I had quite a few reasons to hate the Chuckles hire, but his teams seemed to have so much quit in them.  I was out early.  Of course, I'll say it appeared that Herman's teams had a lot of fight, we were never blown out with him.  Now he was a fuckin sociopath, but my point stands.

[AkardStreetHobo 7]

4 hours ago, closetojumping said:

I don’t know if Sarkisian is the guy and he’s still Seven Loss Steve until he isn’t, but I do feel like we can see what a difference he is in overall competence compared to Herman, Strong and even late stage Mack.

late-stage Mackitalism has a ring to it 

[closetohumping 17818]

2 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Or maybe he just would rather do his thing in SoCal instead of Norman, Oklahoma? Sometimes these things aren’t that complicated.

The “cupboard is bare” talk is amusing to me. Yes, Riley took Caleb Williams, which is a big deal, but what do you think the average recruiting ranking is of the guys who are left? OU’s roster is still loaded with a bunch of 4- and 5-star guys, and BV can’t get them to look like anything except completely and utterly fucking helpless out there?

It took TCU four full quarters to score 38 points on Kansas… it took them barely over one quarter to do that against OU. I know that Kansas is improved, but their defense is full of 2- and 3-star guys.

My thought is that if your defense can’t function without 5-star recruits at every position and/or guys who have been in the system for 4 years then maybe your defensive philosophy fucking sucks and you’re not actually a good coach.

 

I'd argue ou's roster is probably as talented as ours.  I could get called out on that but they still have some 4 and 5 star guys.  Obviously the QB sucks but they got rid of Rattler.

 

As for Lincoln, a few thoughts.  AS a Texas fan, I'm glad he's gone.  He's regarded as the brightest offensive mind in CFB and there's a reason he was mentioned for the Dallas job at the age of 34.  He's a sharp guy.  Smarmy and irritating but he would've continually given Sark headaches.  I don't get that vibe wit BV and was elated when he was hired.

 

Agree with you on Lincoln leaving.  Being rich and living in SoCal?  Sure.

[Vic Mackey 47965]

The worst I have seen them since I entered high school in 1999. Really since they won it all in 2000, OU's down year for them, was still pretty damn good. I have never seen them this out of sorts on offense. They usually just roll into their next QB and turnover of talent and still compete at a high level. Lincoln Riley takes Caleb Williams and others out west and now have USC looking legit like they did in the early to mid 2000s. OU lost a lot of their identity when he left. They have not experienced a change of coach like this in over 2 decades. They had Stoops built a great foundation and one of their own takeover in Riley and not miss a beat and actually look even better. Doesn't hurt that they get heisman level transfers in Murray and Hurts so they never had to really recruit and develop a guy and they come right in and have them as contenders and make the playoffs.

But now they have an outside guy come in and doesn't look to be HC material (at least yet) and it's going to take time to make his imprint and develop his identity. But will OU fans be patient for that? They aren't used to this at all since the turn of the century. 

 

[Vic Mackey 47965]

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

I'd argue ou's roster is probably as talented as ours.  I could get called out on that but they still have some 4 and 5 star guys.  Obviously the QB sucks but they got rid of Rattler.

 

As for Lincoln, a few thoughts.  AS a Texas fan, I'm glad he's gone.  He's regarded as the brightest offensive mind in CFB and there's a reason he was mentioned for the Dallas job at the age of 34.  He's a sharp guy.  Smarmy and irritating but he would've continually given Sark headaches.  I don't get that vibe wit BV and was elated when he was hired.

 

Agree with you on Lincoln leaving.  Being rich and living in SoCal?  Sure.

I'm glad he is gone, too, Lincoln was perfect for OU and kept their train churning. Vennables isn't even close right now. Lincoln worked under Stoops and took over and kept it going. Vennables is an outsider. 

[closetohumping 17818]

1 hour ago, UTEE97 said:

This. Venables saw Sark was doing him a solid by calling off the dogs early in the 4Q. Only a dick like Stoops would have returned the favor by trying to score meaningless points in the waning seconds of the game. Not to mention, they probably would have failed and made themselves look petty on top of being incompetent.

I don't know, maybe it's subconscious but sometimes you don't want to beat someone so bad that they replace him.  Stoops definitely called off the dogs on Mack.

[Gravy Train 975]

5 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

As for Lincoln, a few thoughts.  AS a Texas fan, I'm glad he's gone.  He's regarded as the brightest offensive mind in CFB and there's a reason he was mentioned for the Dallas job at the age of 34.  He's a sharp guy.  Smarmy and irritating but he would've continually given Sark headaches.  I don't get that vibe wit BV and was elated when he was hired.

Disagree with Lincoln "continually given Sark headaches."  He's as offense-minded as Sark is, without a few key bits of experience under Saban to recruit and tailor said offense around the LoS.  Lincoln might be more crafty about identifying unique strengths of players under his roster, then exploiting them, but he follows a pretty straight playbook that can be blown up once his OL and a key receiver are overmatched.

I wished we had a couple more years to play him heads up, or at the very minimum, we didn't get fucked over with that call last year when Mims stepped out of bounds.  It took more than that for OU to mount their comeback, but it certainly swayed momentum and it would have been fun to see Sark pour offensive gasoline on the fire of which only Lincoln used to play with.

We'll get that chance again, I'm looking forward to it.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18963]

The OU fans should actually be happy today. They don't have to worry about their coach getting poached by a better school any longer. 

[hookem48 4857]

I don't think BV is their answer but I also don't think they're that down, they are front running fuckheads that had their season crater and quit, they ain't going nowhere.

[touchthemonolith 654]

I've been on every OU forum I can think of for the past 24 hours with no fewer than 10 socks. 

They're down.

[dec3169 556]

6 hours ago, MotownHorn said:

Maybe they remembered someone left the hot plate on back at the trailer and needed to get home before it burned down 

That meth ain't gonna cook itself (in my best Oklahoman)

[Nivek 17415]

Meh. One bad start to the season doesn’t mean they will become Nebraska. They border us and get a lot of Texas recruits.

He seems like he sucks though.

[dec3169 556]

5 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Lebby has WRs and TBs that everyone recruited. Sorry, but saying otherwise is pure boloney. 

He may have them, but how many better guys left with Riley?  How many of the ones left had snaps with the first team?  Regardless of whether there are theoretically good players left on the team or not, if they weren't developed and didn't get playing time or even snaps with the first team there will be "growing pains" until they get some experience.  There may be a handful of freshmen that could get there quicker but that depends on their own raw talent, and to some extent luck that they can instantly "get" the new offense or defense.

Think about us.  If someone poached Quinn we should still be ok, right?  Card was a very high recruit wasn't he?  No - we saw the difference between the last 3.5 weeks and yesterday.  Difference for OU is they are suffering on both sides of the ball.

[dec3169 556]

5 hours ago, gmr548 said:

Didn’t catch that, but agree. They really did quit yesterday. It was very strange to see. I was pissed they got the ball back with two minutes left or whatever it was because I thought they had a good chance of scoring on Texas’s 9th string defense and ruining the shut out.

Running the clock out on the final possession when you have 0 on the board on the Cotton Bowl is… Something. One of several things from yesterday I can’t imagine the locker room will respond well to.

I was shocked that OU didn't try a hail Mary for their last play just to try to avoid the shutout.  Instead they stood there watching 19 seconds go off the clock.  That was the biggest pointer to me on how down they are right now.

[closetojumping 65436]

2 minutes ago, dec3169 said:

He may have them, but how many better guys left with Riley?  How many of the ones left had snaps with the first team?  Regardless of whether there are theoretically good players left on the team or not, if they weren't developed and didn't get playing time or even snaps with the first team there will be "growing pains" until they get some experience.  There may be a handful of freshmen that could get there quicker but that depends on their own raw talent, and to some extent luck that they can instantly "get" the new offense or defense.

Think about us.  If someone poached Quinn we should still be ok, right?  Card was a very high recruit wasn't he?  No - we saw the difference between the last 3.5 weeks and yesterday.  Difference for OU is they are suffering on both sides of the ball.

Huh?

Mims was on the field yesterday. Eric Gray was pursued by everyone in the portal and OU was envied when they landed him. Major was a 4 star back. Gavin Sawchuk, or whatever the true freshman’s name is, was a borderline 5 star. Wease was a 5 star. 

They also have guys that were highly recruited and highly ranked on the OL and at TE. 

There is zero excuse for Lebby shitting the bed the way he did yesterday. They have talent. This “cupboard is bare” narrative is 100% nonsense. 

[utexas8 1706]

Not sure he enjoyed his first stint there as a coach.  

Yeah I thought it was a bad break up

[Skipper 6411]

Yeah but Beville is god awful and as we know better than anyone QB play is pretty damn important.  I don't think Riley could make a Beville led offense look good and clearly those behind him aren't any better.  Like I noted earlier, I read an article or something posted from OU's boards pre-season that warned all of the QB's behind DG looked terrible in practice/scrimmage so they better hope DG stays healthy.  They will get beat by Kansas at home next week if Gabriel can't play.

[LonghornSean 4104]

Into my veins

[dec3169 556]

9 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Huh?

Mims was on the field yesterday. Eric Gray was pursued by everyone in the portal and OU was envied when they landed him. Major was a 4 star back. Gavin Sawchuk, or whatever the true freshman’s name is, was a borderline 5 star. Wease was a 5 star. 

They also have guys that were highly recruited and highly ranked on the OL and at TE. 

There is zero excuse for Lebby shitting the bed the way he did yesterday. They have talent. This “cupboard is bare” narrative is 100% nonsense. 

You're right about Mims and Gray (especially Mims - he seems really good).  I don't know enough about the others you mentioned.  I just know if a lot of your good starters are poached you're going to have problems.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10805]

OU's fine, they have talent, Riley just screwed them over in the QB department and can look at Bama game last night to show no matter how good you are, if you don't have a competent QB playing you won't look anywhere close to your potential.  Venerable also hasn't forgot to coach, he just needs more time install his defense. Between another offseason, QBs from portal (and recruits), they'll be much improved next year, they just have to take the punches this season.

[quigley 1565]

5 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Since when did they recruit players who could read?

 

Picked a poor example. Bradford had a 3.95 GPA as a finance major.

[closetojumping 65436]

3 minutes ago, dec3169 said:

You're right about Mims and Gray (especially Mims - he seems really good).  I don't know enough about the others you mentioned.  I just know if a lot of your good starters are poached you're going to have problems.

Someone else can correct me if I’m wrong, like @texifornia who tracks this stuff also when it was happening, but I think they only lost two guys on offense - Caleb and Mario Williams. 

[lilMAC25 4002]

5 minutes ago, LonghornSean said:

Into my veins

[closetohumping 17818]

1 minute ago, quigley said:

Picked a poor example. Bradford had a 3.95 GPA as a finance major.

At Oklahoma.

[OB3 3636]

5 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Someone else can correct me if I’m wrong, like @texifornia who tracks this stuff also when it was happening, but I think they only lost two guys on offense - Caleb and Mario Williams. 

Haselwood and Stogner

[Skipper 6411]

Rattler as well.  This shows how important it is to somehow/someway manage to keep a competent backup QB on roster at all times.  We are lucky with Card this year and presumably Manning ok sitting as backup next.  But probably needs to get to the point where teams that can pay a guy that could start at a lesser program NIL $$ to stick around.  If you go into a season where former 3rd string at Pitt is your backup yesterday is what can happen.

[quigley 1565]

4 hours ago, Duane Moore said:

Throw Josh Heupel in there as well. 18 months out from inheriting a smoking crater in Knoxville and they are hosting a matchup of undefeated top ten teams next week against Bama with a real shot to win it. 

Heupel is an example of what OU fans should be hoping for. Heupel was objectively a poor OC for the Sooners in the early 2010s (despite beatdowns of UT in the RRR). He was a safe, nepotistic hire. I was among many who wanted him gone (Riley replaced him).

Heupel integrated components of the Briles system into a coherent offense at Missouri. He parlayed success there into the UCF and Tennessee jobs.

Heupel grew as a coach. OU has to hope Venables grows as a coach too. Brent seems humble. There are obvious things he can do in one offseason to make big changes. Let's see if he's able to do them.

BTW, Heupel's probably NOT coming back to OU. There were apparently very hard feelings from his side when he left. I haven't heard anything about them being repaired.

[Huckleberry 34666]

I'm sure it's been covered but the always correct answer to "Just how down is ou?" is not enough.

[orangebird 1147]

20 minutes ago, LonghornSean said:

Into my veins

[quigley 1565]

7 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Rattler as well.  This shows how important it is to somehow/someway manage to keep a competent backup QB on roster at all times.  We are lucky with Card this year and presumably Manning ok sitting as backup next.  But probably needs to get to the point where teams that can pay a guy that could start at a lesser program NIL $$ to stick around.  If you go into a season where former 3rd string at Pitt is your backup yesterday is what can happen.

Caleb Williams
S Rattler
Mario Wms
Cody Jackson
Hazelwood
Stacy Wilkins

[oSuJeff97 3439]

17 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

OU's fine, they have talent, Riley just screwed them over in the QB department and can look at Bama game last night to show no matter how good you are, if you don't have a competent QB playing you won't look anywhere close to your potential.  Venerable also hasn't forgot to coach, he just needs more time install his defense. Between another offseason, QBs from portal (and recruits), they'll be much improved next year, they just have to take the punches this season.

I’m not sure what Riley taking Caleb Williams has to do with their defense being completely fucking terrible.

And I don’t understand the whole “needs more time to install his defense.” What does that even mean?  Practically every player OU has on defense was recruited by everyone. They have talent.  As I said earlier, if what makes Venables’ defensive system work is having 5-star guys at every position and/or guys who have been in the system for 4 years then his system fucking sucks.

It’s not like they are having a few busts here and there… the defense has been completely mauled in 3 conference games.

He was supposed to be the guy who fixed *the defense* and it’s the worst part of the team by far. 

Gabriel isn’t an elite QB by any means, but the offense was at least functional with him running it. Most teams are going to have a bit of a drop off to their backup QB, so I’ll cut them a little slack there.

 

[Doze 1324]

Howard Schnellenberger's down. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10805]

6 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I’m not sure what Riley taking Caleb Williams has to do with their defense being completely fucking terrible.

And I don’t understand the whole “needs more time to install his defense.” What does that even mean?  Practically every player OU has on defense was recruited by everyone. They have talent.  As I said earlier, if what makes Venables’ defensive system work is having 5-star guys at every position and/or guys who have been in the system for 4 years then his system fucking sucks.

It’s not like they are having a few busts here and there… the defense has been completely mauled in 3 conference games.

He was supposed to be the guy who fixed *the defense* and it’s the worst part of the team by far. 

Gabriel isn’t an elite QB by any means, but the offense was at least functional with him running it. Most teams are going to have a bit of a drop off to their backup QB, so I’ll cut them a little slack there.

 

Riley left no QB of value. Gabriel was a nice add until he got hurt.

"Needs more time"... cmon, as a Texas fan you should understand this. Bringing a completely new system with not the right players to run it typically doesn't lead to success in year 1. He knows what he wants to run and has to start installing it. Vocabulary, signals, assignments, rotations etc. Then he needs to get players better suited to run it. Could he run better with players he had, probably, but then you risk having to do all the above again. 

He coaches in the Big 12... one bad position group and doesn't matter what else you have. Also... see #2.

OU defense hasn't been good for a long, long time.. fixing isn't going to do anything, he's having to overhaul it.

[Huckleberry 34666]

Just now, MonkeyDoughnut said:

"Needs more time"... cmon, as a Texas fan you should understand this. Bringing a completely new system with not the right players to run it typically doesn't lead to success in year 1.

This is exactly wrong. In the last decade Texas has had multiple defensive coordinators who came in and had a good first season that then got worse as the league figured them out.

[quigley 1565]

The longterm viability of the OU program isn't dependent on one coach's success. The 1990s proved this (Gibbs-meh, followed by 4 yrs of awful). OU's still going to have tradition and border Texas.

The primary risk to OU's program is the unwillingness of the fanbase to get behind a big boy NIL program. The reasons for this are many and are rooted in the relative poverty of the fans and their entitlement due to two decades of continued success.

OU fans may need to taste several years of losing to appreciate the value of the work of recruits and team members.

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10805]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

This is exactly wrong. In the last decade Texas has had multiple defensive coordinators who came in and had a good first season that then got worse as the league figured them out.

So they opted for playing with what they had in year 1 instead of installing something better and sucked in year 2, 3, 4 .... It's a choice I guess

[GreenspointTexas 9974]

Ive always wondered how come New Mexico is the only state that borders Texas and doesnt have a rich football tradition?

 

pick it up, New Mexico, jeesh

[Pdawg88 1157]

42 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Someone else can correct me if I’m wrong, like @texifornia who tracks this stuff also when it was happening, but I think they only lost two guys on offense - Caleb and Mario Williams. 

Jaydon Haslewood went to Arkansas and Austin Stogner went to South Carolina as well. But neither one really contributed much of I’m being honest.