Kroger/Albertson's

[YGIFS 19449]

Big acquisition underway between Kroger and Albertson's.  Gonna take some time to get fed approval.  But this'll put the new enterprise at about 1,800 stores nationwide.  I'm guessing the idea is a full-on assault of Wal-Mart and Amazon.  ALDI Foods will still have more stores (2,300 nationwide, largest in the world), but their model is much more discount, smaller stores, and very little digital/delivery presence.  

Really curious to see what the new online platform looks like for Krogertson's.  This is also going to significantly alter wholesale food contracts, supply chain, and mostly shipping logistics.  I don't know that I've ever walked into or out of a Kroger's or Albertson's and thought to myself, "what a nice store, what a nice shopping experience."  But if you're if you live in an exurb or larger rural area...you're sure as shit glad they're nearby.  

The real loser in all of this is Safeway.  Which is doing everything it can to become a relic.  

Anyway, lots of financial consequences of this, but the real estate footprint, store numbers, and logistics are what we're watching.  Thoughts, particularly from those of you like me adjacent to the grocery industry?  

[Incredulity 11649]

1 minute ago, YGIFS said:

But this'll put the new enterprise at about 1,800 stores nationwide. 

Kroger already has 2800 locations

 

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

The real loser in all of this is Safeway

Safeway is part of Albertsons.  Has been for nearly a decade.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Kroger already has 2800 locations

 

Safeway is part of Albertsons.  Has been for nearly a decade.

Yeah that was a real WTF post. Two shit brands merging. It won’t effect Tom Thumb or HEB / Central Market, and has no impact on me. 

[Incredulity 11649]

1 minute ago, Porterhouse said:

Tom Thumb

Part of Albertsons.

[elfenix 34223]

pretty safe to assume i'll continue shopping at HEB. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Part of Albertsons.

Another WTF post. I haven’t been inside a grocery store since ‘04

[YGIFS 19449]

Ah shit, I misread that store count report.  It was pre-mergers.  Only thing I have up to dates on is Aldi, mostly because I don't keep up with shitty grocery stores.  Anyway, story remains---the Krogertson's thing is happening.  

[YGIFS 19449]

19 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Yeah that was a real WTF post. Two shit brands merging. It won’t effect Tom Thumb or HEB / Central Market, and has no impact on me. 

I just caught a cursory look at the whole article and then pulled up a store count in some ancient spreadsheet I had.  But if Safeway and Albertson's are together and Tom Thumb is part of Safeway, won't an Albertson's acquisition by Kroger effect Tom Thumb?  Again, I probably have this wrong.  

But yeah, the assault on DFW by HEB/Central Market that has now begun phase two...this could be nothing for Texas...but I suspect will have larger implications for the western half of the nation.  

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I just caught a cursory look at the whole article and then pulled up a store count in some ancient spreadsheet I had.  But if Safeway and Albertson's are together and Tom Thumb is part of Safeway, won't an Albertson's acquisition by Kroger effect Tom Thumb?  Again, I probably have this wrong.  

But yeah, the assault on DFW by HEB/Central Market that has now begun phase two...this could be nothing for Texas...but I suspect will have larger implications for the western half of the nation.  

The fact is my wife goes to Central Market for food exclusively. For other items, a Tom Thumb down the street. As long as this doesn’t affect TT quality, this will have zero impact on major metro areas of Texas. 

[Incredulity 11649]

I don't think this deal makes it through the Feds without some fairly significant divestiture requirements.

But that can change too.

Full disclosure: I didn't think the Albertson/Safeway merger would be allowed happen.  So who the fuck knows.

 

 

[Celery Man 20931]

harris teeter fucking sucks

[ztejas 43411]

The Krogers I frequented in Dallas were solid grocery stores. Fairly bullshit-free, in-and-out shopping experience at a good price. Easily better than anything Safeway - obviously a step below HEB. 

[solamente73 1132]

With Tom Thumb, Albertson's, Market Street, and Kroger together, it should have a big impact on the DFW market.  DMN covers it here.  Looks like the merger would capture just over 28% of the DFW market, making it #1 ahead of Walmart.

From the DMN article:

My neighborhood stores are Tom Thumb and Albertson's about a mile apart from each other.  Albertson's is shit, and Tom Thumb is just a more expensive Albertson's.  I expect one of those to close as a result of the merger.  HEB owns a large undeveloped tract a mile or two down the road from them, but no public plans yet for that property.  HEB can't get here fast enough.

[Trey3216 15343]

3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

I just caught a cursory look at the whole article and then pulled up a store count in some ancient spreadsheet I had.  But if Safeway and Albertson's are together and Tom Thumb is part of Safeway, won't an Albertson's acquisition by Kroger effect Tom Thumb?  Again, I probably have this wrong.  

But yeah, the assault on DFW by HEB/Central Market that has now begun phase two...this could be nothing for Texas...but I suspect will have larger implications for the western half of the nation.  

Did you have discontinued brands of kettle chips and other items of frustration in that spreadsheet? 

[YGIFS 19449]

Items of Frustration is a good name for the last aisle at my Trader Joe's.  It's all this expensive, impulse buy snacking shit my kids always want.  At least you can skip the candy aisle in the middle of HEB easily.  There's no escaping the items of frustration aisle at Trader Joe's unless you're trying to sneak it out the front door without paying.

But yes, my antiquated data sets and wildly fascinating stories about how we all shop in Texas for groceries aside...was more curious what y'all think this means to the underlying stock/capitalizations but most importantly what this means for grocery shopping for a huge segment of the United States outside of Texas?  I mean this is bigger, dollar and customer-wise than Amazon/WF.  This is ALDI/Trader Joe's level, bigger even.  for most of America west of the river...outside of larger cities and outside of half of Texas...you either have a Kroger, an Albertson's, or a Safeway brand...and that's it...and even then...it could be 30 minutes away.  

 

[Incredulity 11649]

McMullen said  a while ago on CNBC that post merger share of US grocery industry will be

Walmart 22%

Kroger 13%

Ahold/Delhaize 5%

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

4 hours ago, YGIFS said:

 then pulled up a store count in some ancient spreadsheet I had.  But if Safeway and Albertson's are together and Tom Thumb is part of Safeway...

[elfenix 34223]

4 hours ago, YGIFS said:

then pulled up a store count in some ancient spreadsheet I had

whatthebuck sock confirmed

[Guest]

If this comes to United in West Texas( owned by Albertsons,) regardless of anything else, I'd consider the transition a success.  When we lived in H-town metro, Kroger was the first to build by our subdivision and I shopped there for probably 80% of our groceries.  When they built a subsequent HEB(90%) and WalMart(10%,) I very rarely went to Kroger unless they had some hot pricing on beer or ice cream or some shit like that.  It's hard to see how this aquisition makes them more competitive in markets like Houston or Dallas.  It's not going help them fight HEB, IMHO.  In other markets, maybe it will.

 

[YGIFS 19449]

Is there a Ralph's nearby?  And do they take checks?

[Gil Bang 25907]

Albertson's is my go-to because of location, but I find both Albertson's and Ralph's to be solid stores.  

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

Will this impact my Piggly Wiggly?

[Incredulity 11649]

What you do in your private life is none of our business.

[Gil Bang 25907]

10 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Will this impact my Piggly Wiggly?

probable Vic sock?

[TwiceHorn 31438]

Lots of Tom Thumbs in my hood and yes they are owned by Albertsons, it's clear from the app.

It used to be TT, Safeway, and Kroger in the vicinity, then Safeway went away and then bought TT and came back in a roundabout way.  TTs brought back Safeway's locally sourced Lucerne dairy stuff, including ice cream, which was always a solid brand.

The TTs improved when they acquired Simon David specialty grocer and made the TTs in nice hoods rather Simon David-y.  Simon David was a Central Market looong before there was a Central Market, or Whole Foods, or Eatzi.

As far as I can see, there's not a ton of difference among the various stores, as long as they're in a nice hood.

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

There are going to have to be a ton of store sales in the Dallas and Houston markets due to anti-trust issues. The Randall's and Tom Thumb stores bump up right next to Kroger's everywhere in both markets.  Could be a great opportunity for HEB to pick up some locations (when they are open).

[Trey3216 15343]

1 hour ago, DalTxHornFan said:

There are going to have to be a ton of store sales in the Dallas and Houston markets due to anti-trust issues. The Randall's and Tom Thumb stores bump up right next to Kroger's everywhere in both markets.  Could be a great opportunity for HEB to pick up some locations (when they are open).

That’s not how H‑E‑B operates.  They are going to do their best to make Kroger/Albertsons eat that money on the store.  They aren’t there to help them out.  

[tx 3 putt 76868]

there's a krogers a couple of mins from me, small and very hood. they do a good job of keeping the store straight and clean but it's just nothing compared to an heb. good for small, quick trips, never go after dark 

[hpslugga 4058]

19 hours ago, YGIFS said:

I just caught a cursory look at the whole article and then pulled up a store count in some ancient spreadsheet I had.  But if Safeway and Albertson's are together and Tom Thumb is part of Safeway, won't an Albertson's acquisition by Kroger effect Tom Thumb?  Again, I probably have this wrong.  

But yeah, the assault on DFW by HEB/Central Market that has now begun phase two...this could be nothing for Texas...but I suspect will have larger implications for the western half of the nation.  

Assault? They’re barely touching the very northern tips where Market Street was the big dog. That’s not to say they won’t expand (and I’d gladly welcome that) but there’s a reason they didn’t start in the downtown area…or inside the 635/20 loop…or south of the GBT…or even south of 121.

Edited October 15, 2022 by hpslugga

[YGIFS 19449]

Yeah, the HEB expansion into the Metroplex has been curious.  But it'll work in the end.  Y'all up there know more about it than I do.  My intention on the thread was as stated in the OP, how does this effect shoppers in the new age of grocery buying in the Western Half of the U.S?  But yes, I realize most of us shop at HEB and Central Market.  Big shock.  

[Guest]

Affect.

[TKthunder2 4985]

19 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

That’s not how H‑E‑B operates.  They are going to do their best to make Kroger/Albertsons eat that money on the store.  They aren’t there to help them out.  

Yep, at best they’ll let Krogers take a beating on the real estate transaction and then buy it second hand a few years down the road.

If I was betting on it, I’d guess your see a good chuck of them get converted to Walmart neighborhood grocery stores.

[Trey3216 15343]

15 hours ago, hpslugga said:

Assault? They’re barely touching the very northern tips where Market Street was the big dog. That’s not to say they won’t expand (and I’d gladly welcome that) but there’s a reason they didn’t start in the downtown area…or inside the 635/20 loop…or south of the GBT…or even south of 121.

They own lots of property in DFW.  They’ve played the long game throughout Texas on both Albertsons and Kroger.  They wait til those stores have to do major capital injection upgrades to their stores and then pounce on store building sprees.  It makes the competitor have to commit to stay in market for a measured period since they just wasted $$ upgrading, then they lose their shoppers to H‑E‑B.  
 

H‑E‑B is absolutely the dexter of grocery economics.  Just a calculated killer. 

[Stunns38 3460]

That’s not how H‑E‑B operates.  They are going to do their best to make Kroger/Albertsons eat that money on the store.  They aren’t there to help them out.  

They did buy an old Randall’s off of 183/Spicewood in Austin but it’s one of their smaller stores. That’s the only instance I’m aware of.

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

45 minutes ago, Stunns38 said:

They did buy an old Randall’s off of 183/Spicewood in Austin but it’s one of their smaller stores. That’s the only instance I’m aware of.

Yep, I think it used to be an Albertsons.  That store has killed it forever.  I know that type of thing is not their pro-forma business plan.  But now that they have the DFW/HOU distribution centers in place, I cannot imagine that they are not going to be opportunistic in this situation.

Edited October 16, 2022 by DalTxHornFan

[The Ace of Aces 5175]

As long as this doesn’t impact my local Wegmans, ok cool. I forgot these stores existed, honestly. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:48 PM, Celery Man said:

harris teeter fucking sucks

You watch your goddamn mouth 

[washparkhorn 9939]

Antitrust laws have been so neglected I doubt there is a problem. They will probably spin off the low performing stores into a brand that will fail to give the appearance of competition. Walmart will continue to dominate regardless of the merger. 

[billfromlaketravis 11447]

Not a fan of the move. Randalls has excellent  good meat priced well. Pretty solid fried chicken from the deli.  I fully acknowledge the rest of the store is overpriced crap. 

[Celery Man 20931]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

You watch your goddamn mouth 

HEB >>>>Wegmans >>>Publix>Harris Teeter>>Food Lion>Lowes

[Neonmoon 38129]

22 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Not a fan of the move. Randalls has excellent  good meat priced well. Pretty solid fried chicken from the deli.  I fully acknowledge the rest of the store is overpriced crap. 

Randalls produce is always garbage. Meat is very good. All overpriced 

[Neonmoon 38129]

9 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

HEB >>>>Wegmans >>>Publix>Harris Teeter>>Food Lion>Lowes

Publix is actually pretty damn good. Harris Teeter reminds me of Randall’s. Never been to Wegmans. HEB is definitely the best (depending on location)

[Celery Man 20931]

Randall’s sucks, and Harris Teeter is owned by Kroger, which sucks.

[Post Oak 20205]

Had no idea there were that many Aldis in the US. I didn't mind stopping in from time to time when I lived closer.  Not HEB obviously but I like some of their offerings and I wish the prototype of a smaller neighborhood grocery store was more prevalent in Central Texas

[Okie State 3804]

I honestly thought Kroger, Albertson's, and Randall's were all the same owner. They all suck. I get that not everyone has HEB available, but it really bottles my mind that some actually voluntarily choose these stores over HEB.

[Neonmoon 38129]

58 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

Had no idea there were that many Aldis in the US. I didn't mind stopping in from time to time when I lived closer.  Not HEB obviously but I like some of their offerings and I wish the prototype of a smaller neighborhood grocery store was more prevalent in Central Texas

I’m just not a fan of Aldi. I understand the appeal. It is small with limited options. It’s great if you just need a few items and don’t want to shop at a convenience store but its bare bones. 

[TKthunder2 4985]

13 hours ago, Stunns38 said:

They did buy an old Randall’s off of 183/Spicewood in Austin but it’s one of their smaller stores. That’s the only instance I’m aware of.

That was about market dominance.

HEB had stores at Anderson Mill/620, Lakeline/183, Parmer/McNeil, and Braker/183 and they were still losing a larger chuck of the NW Austin market to that little Randalls simply due to location, location, location. Since that is an environmentally sensitive area and the easy access land around that area was already developed they didn’t really have any other options.

Similarly I’d bet money they’d buy out the Randall’s at Spicewood/Mesa for similar reasons.

In DFW they are still in a very early process of entering that market. If they were a publicly traded company then I could see them trying to rush to gain market share to appease the markets, but knowing how they take a very long term strategy on their developments I agree with Trey that’s they’ll sit this one out and hope their entry into DFW and lack of interest in these properties will drive down the sales price and limit Kroger’s capital while they ease their way into the Metroplex.

[South Austin 52444]

TJ Maxx is set to acquire Payless. This is huge.

[Guest]

The first set of ProWings weren't too bad.

Absolute intentional double entendre there.  I should be an NFL announcer.

[Native Horn 3498]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:48 PM, Celery Man said:

harris teeter fucking sucks

Is that the rough looking chick ranch hand from Yellowstone?

Just came in to laugh at anybody who doesn't have three H-E-Bs within six miles of their house.  Fire away.