Bourdain on the Red-Blue Divide

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

 

Quote

"I've spent a lot of time in gun-country, God-fearing America. There are a hell of a lot of nice people out there, who are doing what everyone else in this world is trying to do: the best they can to get by, and take care of themselves and the people they love. When we deny them their basic humanity and legitimacy of their views, however different they may be than ours, when we mock them at every turn, and treat them with contempt, we do no one any good. Nothing nauseates me more than preaching to the converted.

The self-congratulatory tone of the privileged left—just repeating and repeating and repeating the outrages of the opposition—this does not win hearts and minds. It doesn't change anyone's opinions. It only solidifies them, and makes things worse for all of us. We should be breaking bread with each other, and finding common ground whenever possible." - Anthony Bourdain

 

[Brisketexan 104537]

5 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

 

I love Bourdain.  I used to think the way he did.

But he was wrong.  I know such people.  I'm related to several such people.  We've tried to understand them.  We've tried to listen to them, understand them, and reason with them.  It can't be done.  The Trumpkins do not speak facts, logic, and reason.  They speak only in terms of anger, cruelty, and joy in the suffering of others. 

They can't be converted -- I'm not even talking about converting them to some other side of the political spectrum; I'm simply talking about converting them to a world of facts and logic.  It can't be done, so trying to do so is an utter and complete waste of time.  100% waste of time.  Effectively ZERO Trumpkins will ever change.  They have tied their entire self-worth - and there ain't much there - to the success of their orange God.  That means that they can never back off of that, because that would admit failure, and deplete the minimal self-worth that they have.  They'd sooner die.  They NEED to see others suffer.  They NEED to revel in cruelty.  They aren't going up.  So others must suffer.

Time to speak their language.

And the country will be destroyed because of it.  The cycle can't end.  It can only get faster, and worse.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Brisketexan

[deadshank 24651]

Weird.  AB talked about gun country, God-fearing America and you bring up Trumpkins and paint with an industrial strength, airless sprayer and no overspray protection.

AB just might be talking about you, Brisket.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Weird.  AB talked about gun country, God-fearing America and you bring up Trumpkins and paint with an industrial strength, airless sprayer and no overspray protection.

AB just might be talking about you, Brisket.  

Briskets negative emotions are becoming an EPA super fund site.

[Brisketexan 104537]

2 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Weird.  AB talked about gun country, God-fearing America and you bring up Trumpkins and paint with an industrial strength, airless sprayer and no overspray protection.

AB just might be talking about you, Brisket.  

IDGAF.  That's EXACTLY who he's talking about.  The correlation between the two groups is effectively 1:1.  I'm fucking sick and fucking tired of them.  I've tried to reason with them.  We've laid ever fact known to man out in front of them.  NONE OF THAT FUCKING MATTERS.  There IS no dialogue with them.  There IS no reasoning with them.  None.  They speak only one language, they speak it loudly, forcefully, and repeatedly.

Time to talk to them in the language they understand.

[Brisketexan 104537]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Briskets negative emotions are becoming an EPA super fund site.

 

[gsoda3 3234]

that quotes sounds a lot like what he said in that WVa episode.  that has to be the mindset.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

well played......

[Nivek 16843]

I was talking with a Trump supporter who is wavering but still trying to stay committed with the help of her friends/family.    She is upset at the Philly Eagles and supports Trump on the Anthem issue and disrespecting the troops.  I told her it was a troop, who came up with the idea and furthermore none of the Eagles took a knee.  Still she just doesn't like what they did.     No amount of facts, logic, reason, or understanding will change it.  There can be a video tape of Trump with his passport raping a little boy and urinating on a statue of Jesus wrapped in a burning American flag while they sing the Russian National Anthem and they will still love him.       

[bad_teammate 13132]

Bourdain was just peddling a different flavor of patronizing, patriarchal liberal bullshit that presumes that right-wingers and the rurals are feckless, emotional, incompetent pussies who can't take criticism or jokes. That may be a valid presumption, but it's way more insulting than, "Get your shit together you fucking rednecks." because at least that is built on the presumption that the rednecks can do better.

The fact that he killed himself recently doesn't make his both-sides bullshit any more rational.

RIP Tony

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

IDGAF.  That's EXACTLY who he's talking about.  The correlation between the two groups is effectively 1:1.  I'm fucking sick and fucking tired of them.  I've tried to reason with them.  We've laid ever fact known to man out in front of them.  NONE OF THAT FUCKING MATTERS.  There IS no dialogue with them.  There IS no reasoning with them.  None.  They speak only one language, they speak it loudly, forcefully, and repeatedly.

Time to talk to them in the language they understand.

 

I understand why you feel that way but you are missing the point of a guy that you self admittedly loved as much as Tony. 

It isn't about them thinking like you, it isn't going to happen. We ALL need to have more open minds. Do I loathe the views of some of my friends? You're damn right I do, however I know that I will never be able to change their mind or thoughts on a topic by screaming at them, calling them fucking idiots, etc. That just drives them further away.

And just because someone has views that I don't agree with doesn't mean that I am better than them. That is the other thing that so many people forget. 

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Bourdain was just peddling a different flavor of patronizing, patriarchal liberal bullshit that presumes that right-wingers and the rurals are feckless, emotional, incompetent pussies who can't take criticism or jokes. That may be a valid presumption, but it's way more insulting than, "Get your shit together you fucking rednecks." because at least that is built on the presumption that the rednecks can do better.

The fact that he killed himself recently doesn't make his both-sides bullshit any more rational.

RIP Tony

of course it doesn't because it contradicts your closely held belief system which is basically call anyone who disagrees with you a racist or a trumpkin.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

I'd guess that Bourdain's take was a bit skewed by the fact that he pretty much encounters everyone at their best.  A friendly, wealthy white celeb can go anywhere and be the toast of the town if he wants.  He's right in the sense that there is a fundamental decency to most people, and we should try to bring out the best in each other.  Some on the left lose sight of that, notably Hillary herself.   He's wrong in the sense that he ignores that there is also a dark side to human nature, and that Trump is a reflection of the worst in a large chunk of Americans.   And those impulses and their associated views shouldn't be treated as worthy of equal respect and legitimacy.    

[JBJ 3648]

 

43 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I love Bourdain.  I used to think the way he did.

But he was wrong.  I know such people.  I'm related to several such people.  We've tried to understand them.  We've tried to listen to them, understand them, and reason with them.  It can't be done.  The Trumpkins do not speak facts, logic, and reason.  They speak only in terms of anger, cruelty, and joy in the suffering of others.

They can't be converted -- I'm not even talking about converting them to some other side of the political spectrum; I'm simply talking about converting them to a world of facts and logic.  It can't be done, so trying to do so is an utter and complete waste of time.  100% waste of time.  Effectively ZERO Trumpkins will ever change.  They have tied their entire self-worth - and there ain't much there - to the success of their orange God.  That means that they can never back off of that, because that would admit failure, and deplete the minimal self-worth that they have.  They'd sooner die.  They NEED to see others suffer.  They NEED to revel in cruelty.  They aren't going up.  So others must suffer.

Time to speak their language.

And the country will be destroyed because of it.  The cycle can't end.  It can only get faster, and worse.

You are such people.  At least over the past year.

Edited June 11, 2018 by JBJ

[deadshank 24651]

Errbody mad and offended nowadays.   Of course, if the rest of you malcontents, low-lifes, inbreds, mouthbreathers, morons, dipshits, leeches and single issue voters would get therapy so you see it "my way" then we would all be fine.

Sound about right, Brisket?

[DixonHur 11154]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

of course it doesn't because it contradicts your closely held belief system which is basically call anyone who disagrees with you a racist or a trumpkin.

Bullshit, the only people being called Trumpkins are the ones who still support him despite the overwhelming proof of his ignorance, petulance, corruption, and unparalleled hypocrisy.

[bad_teammate 13132]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

of course it doesn't because it contradicts your closely held belief system which is basically call anyone who disagrees with you a racist or a trumpkin.

You here and JBJ in the other thread. What is it with you people and pretending someone called you racist when no one did?

[Mojo Hand 4580]

3 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

And just because someone has views that I don't agree with doesn't mean that I am better than them. That is the other thing that so many people forget. 

 

 

Depends on the views.  All things being equal, you are better than a white supremacist version of you, based purely on the respective views. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

27 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

that quotes sounds a lot like what he said in that WVa episode.  that has to be the mindset.

He liked all the people in the Iran episode too.  In fact, I don't think he ever really disliked anyone in any episode.  Its easy though when you're just sitting down with people and shooting the shit while eating pig nuts in WV or camel hump in Iran.  You don't have to get to the hard discussions like what your hosts think about gay people in either place.  As a country, however, we do have to have that hard discussion.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, DixonHur said:

Bullshit, the only people being called Trumpkins are the ones who still support him despite the overwhelming proof of his ignorance, petulance, corruption, and unparalleled hypocrisy.

Not bullshit, if you disagree with some peoples views on democrats you get called a Trumpkin. So save your bullshit for when it really applies like now with me to you, bullshit it happens every day.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

You here and JBJ in the other thread. What is it with you people and pretending someone called you racist when no one did?

Hey you've called me racist on several occasions and others when their points had jack to do with race as an issue, but you twisted it into those comments. I'm not the only one that's called you out on this tactic of yours.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[David Dennison 18646]

51 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

 

This quote encapsulates exactly what's wrong with the people he describes. They can't have their precious feelings hurt or they dig in and get even more deplorable.

Fuck that. Those people are morons and should be treated as such. They should be properly mocked for their willful ignorance. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Hey you've called me racist on several occasions and orthers when their points had jack to do with race as an issue, but you twisted it into those comments. I'm not the only one that's called you out on this tactic of yours.

If you've said something racist and I called you racist then that's fine. I doubt I've called you racist undeservedly. But you're whining never seems to stop. You fucking people act like the world is constantly oppressing you and no one even knows or cares who you are.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Not bullshit, if you disagree with some peoples views on democrats you get called a Trumpkin. So save your bullshit for when it really applies like now with me to you, bullshit it happens every day.

Oh, it's bullshit.  I disagree with John Kasich on most things, but I wouldn't call him a Trump supporter.   The reality is that Rs overwhelmingly support Trump.   And one way that support is expressed, by people without the guts to admit it, is by deflecting from criticism of Trump through one-sided attacks on Ds. 

[GRHorn 105]

47 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I love Bourdain.  I used to think the way he did.

But he was wrong.  I know such people.  I'm related to several such people.  We've tried to understand them.  We've tried to listen to them, understand them, and reason with them.  It can't be done.  The Trumpkins do not speak facts, logic, and reason.  They speak only in terms of anger, cruelty, and joy in the suffering of others. 

They can't be converted -- I'm not even talking about converting them to some other side of the political spectrum; I'm simply talking about converting them to a world of facts and logic.  It can't be done, so trying to do so is an utter and complete waste of time.  100% waste of time.  Effectively ZERO Trumpkins will ever change.  They have tied their entire self-worth - and there ain't much there - to the success of their orange God.  That means that they can never back off of that, because that would admit failure, and deplete the minimal self-worth that they have.  They'd sooner die.  They NEED to see others suffer.  They NEED to revel in cruelty.  They aren't going up.  So others must suffer.

Time to speak their language.

And the country will be destroyed because of it.  The cycle can't end.  It can only get faster, and worse.

You’re an angry, sad man.  Maybe you should move to Europe with your daughter. I hope you can find peace.  

[DixonHur 11154]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Not bullshit, if you disagree with some peoples views on democrats you get called a Trumpkin. So save your bullshit for when it really applies like now with me to you, bullshit it happens every day.

I'm gonna need some examples of someone being called a Trumpkin without that person supporting Trump positions.

[Chuckie Finster 22598]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Not bullshit, if you disagree with some peoples views on democrats you get called a Trumpkin. So save your bullshit for when it really applies like now with me to you, bullshit it happens every day.

Less than an hour ago in a different thread:

39 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You'll get some strongly worded letters form the cabal.  Don't take it personally, they just think your a huge pile of shit that has no redeeming qualities in life, your mother services the entire local military base, and you're a flaming racist, but mostly because you don't agree with their Orwellian vision of America.

 

See it's already happening here >>>>>>>>

 

But yeah, people getting labeled "Trumpkins" is the real issue here.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Chuckie Finster

[bad_teammate 13132]

Someone might have said something mean to me 5 years ago I'm going to pout about it for fucking ever.

[Brisketexan 104537]

27 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

I understand why you feel that way but you are missing the point of a guy that you self admittedly loved as much as Tony. 

It isn't about them thinking like you, it isn't going to happen. We ALL need to have more open minds. Do I loathe the views of some of my friends? You're damn right I do, however I know that I will never be able to change their mind or thoughts on a topic by screaming at them, calling them fucking idiots, etc. That just drives them further away.

And just because someone has views that I don't agree with doesn't mean that I am better than them. That is the other thing that so many people forget. 

 

 

Well, the problem with the first bolded statement is that we're not going to change their minds.  Ever.  At all.  So none of that matters.  I don't care if they're driven into the fucking sea, they're never coming to live in "facts and reason land."  They are lost.  Talking about convincing them is wasted breath.

And no, different views generally doesn't mean that I'm better than them.  But SOME different views....yes, it does.  When your views are that facts are false, and reason and logic don't matter, we are better than those people.  When you attack and demonize the least among us, the folks who dare have different color skin, or accents, and blame them for all of our ills, we are better than those people.  Fuck moral relativism.  Some views are pure shit, and should be called pure shit.

23 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I'd guess that Bourdain's take was a bit skewed by the fact that he pretty much encounters everyone at their best.  A friendly, wealthy white celeb can go anywhere and be the toast of the town if he wants.  He's right in the sense that there is a fundamental decency to most people, and we should try to bring out the best in each other.  Some on the left lose sight of that, notably Hillary herself.   He's wrong in the sense that he ignores that there is also a dark side to human nature, and that Trump is a reflection of the worst in a large chunk of Americans.   And those impulses and their associated views shouldn't be treated as worthy of equal respect and legitimacy.    

This.  No, I do NOT need to respect everyone's take.  Some takes fucking suck, and are inexcusable and deserve no respect or legitimacy.  Endorsing and being slavishly devoted to the embodiment of all the worst aspects of our nation and nature is such a take.

21 minutes ago, JBJ said:

 

You are such people.  At least over the past year.

I'm a recent convert. 

And, even that isn't fucking true.  I REMAIN devoted to facts, logic, and reason.  My rage is because of the fact that those things NO LONGER FUCKING MATTER.  AT ALL.  THEY MATTER 0.0%.  I mean, I COULD continue to traffic in facts, logic, and reason, but what's the fucking point?  Why would I waste my fucking time?  What's the incentive for me to do so?  We might actually convince someone with facts and reason -- someone who has already declared loud and proud that they will NOT listen to facts or reason -- to perhaps change their mind?  I'm angry, but I'm not fucking stupid. 

20 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Bullshit, the only people being called Trumpkins are the ones who still support him despite the overwhelming proof of his ignorance, petulance, corruption, and unparalleled hypocrisy.

This.  And see below re: Kasich (who got my vote in the primary).

15 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Oh, it's bullshit.  I disagree with John Kasich on most things, but I wouldn't call him a Trump supporter.   The reality is that Rs overwhelmingly support Trump.   And one way that support is expressed, by people without the guts to admit it, is by deflecting from criticism of Trump through one-sided attacks on Ds. 

Trump's support does not change.  It is rock-solid.  Nothing matters.  That's the whole point here.

14 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You’re an angry, sad man.  Maybe you should move to Europe with your daughter. I hope you can find peace.  

Fuck yes I'm angry.  Watching an entire political party destroy all of the norms of decency, undermine the rule of law irrevocably, and cackle with glee while they do it -- that should piss EVERYONE off.  At least, everyone who gives a rat's ass about this country.  Who looks at it as something worth keeping.  But nope, y'all don't fucking care.  Fine.  You asked for this shitshow, you got it.  When the loose feces start getting flung back at you ten-fold, don't bitch -- you chose this.  You enabled this.  This is how it ends.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Brisketexan

[Hate 20103]

Bourdain was just peddling a different flavor of patronizing, patriarchal liberal bullshit that presumes that right-wingers and the rurals are feckless, emotional, incompetent pussies who can't take criticism or jokes. That may be a valid presumption, but it's way more insulting than, "Get your shit together you fucking rednecks." because at least that is built on the presumption that the rednecks can do better.
The fact that he killed himself recently doesn't make his both-sides bullshit any more rational.
RIP Tony

He was probably reading Brisket’s posts.

[DixonHur 11154]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

 

He was probably reading Brisket’s posts.

So now we've reached the point of making a joke of someone's suicide.  A'merca

[Brisketexan 104537]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

So now we've reached the point of making a joke of someone's suicide.  A'merca

Well, no....Surly.

I loved Bourdain, but Surly is Surly -- I'll allow it.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

So now we've reached the point of making a joke of someone's suicide.  A'merca

You really trying this tactic ?  Here on the ex Shaggy ?  Making fun of peoples deaths has been fair game since as long as I can recall.  It may not be pretty, but it's what happens and people laugh... a lot.

[ScottishHorn 172]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I love Bourdain.  I used to think the way he did.

But he was wrong.  I know such people.  I'm related to several such people.  We've tried to understand them.  We've tried to listen to them, understand them, and reason with them.  It can't be done.  The Trumpkins do not speak facts, logic, and reason.  They speak only in terms of anger, cruelty, and joy in the suffering of others. 

They can't be converted -- I'm not even talking about converting them to some other side of the political spectrum; I'm simply talking about converting them to a world of facts and logic.  It can't be done, so trying to do so is an utter and complete waste of time.  100% waste of time.  Effectively ZERO Trumpkins will ever change.  They have tied their entire self-worth - and there ain't much there - to the success of their orange God.  That means that they can never back off of that, because that would admit failure, and deplete the minimal self-worth that they have.  They'd sooner die.  They NEED to see others suffer.  They NEED to revel in cruelty.  They aren't going up.  So others must suffer.

Time to speak their language.

And the country will be destroyed because of it.  The cycle can't end.  It can only get faster, and worse.

That's about as negative as it gets

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, ScottishHorn said:

That's about as negative as it gets

I'm waiting for talk of internment re-education camps. It'll come....

Edited June 11, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[ScottishHorn 172]

52 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, the problem with the first bolded statement is that we're not going to change their minds.  Ever.  At all.  So none of that matters.  I don't care if they're driven into the fucking sea, they're never coming to live in "facts and reason land."  They are lost.  Talking about convincing them is wasted breath.

And no, different views generally doesn't mean that I'm better than them.  But SOME different views....yes, it does.  When your views are that facts are false, and reason and logic don't matter, we are better than those people.  When you attack and demonize the least among us, the folks who dare have different color skin, or accents, and blame them for all of our ills, we are better than those people.  Fuck moral relativism.  Some views are pure shit, and should be called pure shit.

This.  No, I do NOT need to respect everyone's take.  Some takes fucking suck, and are inexcusable and deserve no respect or legitimacy.  Endorsing and being slavishly devoted to the embodiment of all the worst aspects of our nation and nature is such a take.

I'm a recent convert. 

And, even that isn't fucking true.  I REMAIN devoted to facts, logic, and reason.  My rage is because of the fact that those things NO LONGER FUCKING MATTER.  AT ALL.  THEY MATTER 0.0%.  I mean, I COULD continue to traffic in facts, logic, and reason, but what's the fucking point?  Why would I waste my fucking time?  What's the incentive for me to do so?  We might actually convince someone with facts and reason -- someone who has already declared loud and proud that they will NOT listen to facts or reason -- to perhaps change their mind?  I'm angry, but I'm not fucking stupid. 

This.  And see below re: Kasich (who got my vote in the primary).

Trump's support does not change.  It is rock-solid.  Nothing matters.  That's the whole point here.

Fuck yes I'm angry.  Watching an entire political party destroy all of the norms of decency, undermine the rule of law irrevocably, and cackle with glee while they do it -- that should piss EVERYONE off.  At least, everyone who gives a rat's ass about this country.  Who looks at it as something worth keeping.  But nope, y'all don't fucking care.  Fine.  You asked for this shitshow, you got it.  When the loose feces start getting flung back at you ten-fold, don't bitch -- you chose this.  You enabled this.  This is how it ends.

I actually see no difference in this country regardless of who is president.  The rage and anger from the far left is incomprehensible to me.  Trump has done some good things economically for short term recovery.  Nobody is going to stop the eventual collapse.

[Brisketexan 104537]

2 minutes ago, ScottishHorn said:

That's about as negative as it gets

Correct.  When the options are:

Fight clean -- WE ALL LOSE

Fight dirty -- WE ALL LOSE

then "negative" is the order of the day.  There is no winning move left.  The die is cast, and those are our choices.

No point in re-education camps.  Nothing will do any good.  We're just in for a cycle of one team being in control so they can inflict pain on the other team, and the only thing that can stop that is the OTHER team wresting control away and inflicting pain on the first team.  Lather, rinse, repeat, and enjoy!

[Brisketexan 104537]

1 minute ago, ScottishHorn said:

I actually see no difference in this country regardless of who is president.  The rage and anger from the far left is incomprehensible to me.  Trump has done some good things economically for short term recovery.  Nobody is going to stop the eventual collapse.

How about the rage and anger from the center-right?  We're included in this shitshow too.

[ScottishHorn 172]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

How about the rage and anger from the center-right?  We're included in this shitshow too.

I just dont see why everyone is so ragey.  Watching CNN every day isnt healthy.  Who cares if someone is a gun nut that loves Trump.  There were all sorts of crazies that loved Obama.  They are both full of shit.  Both Trump and Obama are full of shit and abused power.  You cant hate one without hating the other.  Trump isnt even in Obama's league yet when it comes to corruption.  I'm still waiting for Trump to weaponize some of his agencies. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm waiting for talk of internment re-education camps. It'll come....

The deaths are going to be staggering, perhaps passing the Trump tax cut levels. Along with the bodies lying in the street from abandoning the Climate Accord, and neutering Obamacare, it is going to be hard to get to the bar tonight to celebrate the CWS.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

How about the rage and anger from the center-right?  We're included in this shitshow too.

It's wasted rage.  What does it get you ?  kids who want to move as far away form dad as possible as far as I can tell (daughter wants to move to the EU). ( I am being overly sarcastic about your Childs remarks, I'm sure you're a good parent).  

Trump is a blip.  That's what makes our form of gov't so successful. The president for all the pomp and circumstance surrounding them doesn't really affect our live's much more than when they're in office for better and worse (acts of war being the exception).   

 

[RPM 26209]

14 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm waiting for talk of internment re-education camps. It'll come....

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, RPM said:

who doesn't conjer that image of Harry......   

[Mole 4319]

 You have this belief that you are better than us. You have this belief that this country is so very good and we are so very bad. You have this belief that you are so fair and we are so very cruel.

 

[Brisketexan 104537]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It's wasted rage.  What does it get you ?  kids who want to move as far away form dad as possible as far as I can tell (daughter wants to move to the EU). ( I am being overly sarcastic about your Childs remarks, I'm sure you're a good parent).  

Trump is a blip.  That's what makes our form of gov't so successful. The president for all the pomp and circumstance surrounding them doesn't really affect our live's much more than when they're in office for better and worse (acts of war being the exception).   

 

Bolded false statement.  Trump is a symptom.  A symptom of a stage IV cancer.  Which is a problem because (1) we don't seem much interested in curing it, and (2) we're so infested with tumors that any cure might kill us anyway.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Bolded false statement.  Trump is a symptom.  A symptom of a stage IV cancer.  Which is a problem because (1) we don't seem much interested in curing it, and (2) we're so infested with tumors that any cure might kill us anyway.

Well sorry, but again I simply do not share your pessimistic outlook on America.

[Brisketexan 104537]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Well sorry, but again I simply do not share your pessimistic outlook on America.

And that's fair.  It's all forward-looking. One of us is going to be closer to right than the other.  I genuinely hope it's you.  I'm just not betting on it.

[staboner 4956]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

I was talking with a Trump supporter who is wavering but still trying to stay committed with the help of her friends/family.    She is upset at the Philly Eagles and supports Trump on the Anthem issue and disrespecting the troops.  I told her it was a troop, who came up with the idea and furthermore none of the Eagles took a knee.  Still she just doesn't like what they did.     No amount of facts, logic, reason, or understanding will change it.  There can be a video tape of Trump with his passport raping a little boy and urinating on a statue of Jesus wrapped in a burning American flag while they sing the Russian National Anthem and they will still love him.       

i keep telling ya'll all that matters is the divide. the people/ideals/issues don't mean a thing right now. that is a civil war my friends

[staboner 4956]

re: AB quote. I don't find any of this difficult

i don't give a shit who you are just follow the guiding American principles. Fight for the disadvantaged, belief in capitalism and the inherent good that it brings, and do not discriminate against ANYONE. do what is fair and fight corruption everywhere. 

Not complicated. everyone gets wrapped up so much other BS. the "people we aren't listening to" are often severely violating something above ^^. And when they do they get called out.

the elitist liberal whatever and the right wing nutjob are constructs which are killing this society. the seldom actually exist but we are all afraid of them and therefore direct our longwinded BS language at them when we try to communicate. see the last statement from AB - "The self-congratulatory tone of the privileged left—just repeating and repeating and repeating the outrages of the opposition—this does not win hearts and minds. It doesn't change anyone's opinions. It only solidifies them, and makes things worse for all of us. We should be breaking bread with each other, and finding common ground whenever possible." - Anthony Bourdain"

He is part of the problem with this statement. he is perpetuating a boogeyman that for the most part is the minority. don't address them AB. you are, sorry were, part of the problem. 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

And that's fair.  It's all forward-looking. One of us is going to be closer to right than the other.  I genuinely hope it's you.  I'm just not betting on it.

I don't think either of us are wrong depending on the size of the picture you look at.   There are people more strident in their issues, but that stridency happens on both sides of the equation.

 Racism is not growing in America in the mainstream population as a general rule IMO. In rural and more isolated and yes segregated regions it may be seeing some growth,  but that's offset by the mainstream of society which is getting more color blind.   

I'm more of the opinion it's racisms last real gasps here (meaning 20-50 years) as it sees its base eroding away it makes a bigger sound in hopes of getting more converts. 

People born during/after the 60's-70's are less likely to be practicing racists than folks being before that time.  I say practicing because no matter our egalitarian wishes we all harbor prejudices in some fashion still.