Commercial Insurance

[RMac5 1557]

Needing to replace my current insurance provider. Have a small burger and beer joint that my wife and I own as a side gig.

we do less than $1M/year in gross sales, alcohol is less than 30% of gross, don’t stay open late and we lease the space.  

Would rather throw it to a smartass on here than with a dumbass stranger.

 

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2779]

I sold my agency last year but would have been happy to help.

Not sure I’ve seen any Commercial guys on here.

There are some captive agents here but I don’t think they can handle the liquor liability portion of your risk profile.

Shoot me a PM if you need any advice.

[RMac5 1557]

Thanks for the heads up T’Boo.  I am getting sideways with my current provider and not happy with their customer service. They pulled a large chunk of cash out of my auto draft account without any notice. They have admitted the error was their fault but they are being very slow to correct the situation. They also “audited” my account and significantly increased my gross sales amount to a number that is no where close to reality. They cannot tell me who they spoke to about the “audit” or where they got their numbers. I have requested a copy of the audit with no luck yet. I have also submitted detailed accounting reports showing actual numbers but still paying the higher premiums for their made up numbers.

[Gil Bang 26230]

5 hours ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

I sold my agency last year but would have been happy to help.

Not sure I’ve seen any Commercial guys on here.

There are some captive agents here but I don’t think they can handle the liquor liability portion of your risk profile.

Shoot me a PM if you need any advice.

Captive?  What does that mean?  Is that like a State Farm agent that can only write a State Farm policy?

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2779]

Thanks for the heads up T’Boo.  I am getting sideways with my current provider and not happy with their customer service. They pulled a large chunk of cash out of my auto draft account without any notice. They have admitted the error was their fault but they are being very slow to correct the situation. They also “audited” my account and significantly increased my gross sales amount to a number that is no where close to reality. They cannot tell me who they spoke to about the “audit” or where they got their numbers. I have requested a copy of the audit with no luck yet. I have also submitted detailed accounting reports showing actual numbers but still paying the higher premiums for their made up numbers.

Are you with a surplus lines carrier?

More than likely based on your info.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2779]

Captive?  What does that mean?  Is that like a State Farm agent that can only write a State Farm policy?

Yes sir.

[Gil Bang 26230]

gracias

[deadshank 24654]

1 hour ago, RMac5 said:

Thanks for the heads up T’Boo.  I am getting sideways with my current provider and not happy with their customer service. They pulled a large chunk of cash out of my auto draft account without any notice. They have admitted the error was their fault but they are being very slow to correct the situation. They also “audited” my account and significantly increased my gross sales amount to a number that is no where close to reality. They cannot tell me who they spoke to about the “audit” or where they got their numbers. I have requested a copy of the audit with no luck yet. I have also submitted detailed accounting reports showing actual numbers but still paying the higher premiums for their made up numbers.

Usually an insurance auditor shows up for a scheduled, on-site interview and you provide pre-requested information such as your gross sales as generated by you accounting system and then back up evidence such as you monthly or quarterly reporting of sales as made available to the the state comptroller.  

Did they not show up and get this information directly from you?  They just adjusted what ever you told them over the phone and added in what they thought was right?    Sounds real squirrely.

You can protest your audit.  Usually your agent files the paperwork with the carrier and they just do a simple recalculation with your objections noted.  I just did this with our carrier as they calculated the audit based on 13 months instead of 12 months.   12 months matches the policy period.  They said "oops, sorry about trying to get an extra month worth of sales in the calculation our of you," adjusted the amount due and I sent the check in.

Your agent needs to get this corrected and corrected fast.  

Who is your carrier?  Don't worry, we won't tell anyone.

As a business note, never let another entity have access to your operating account, unless it is your bank taking interest payments or some regularly scheduled tap like health insurance.

[RMac5 1557]

We never spoke to anyone about our sales amounts or an audit. We received an email quoting the new premiums, when we questioned the significant increase they said it was based of off the audit. I called in to ask about the audit and the increase and was told I had x amount of days to dispute it. I pulled all the numbers they needed out of our POS system and emailed it to them. Since they told us we were up against a deadline I asked them to confirm they got my email. They never responded to either of the two emails or a voicemail we left. 

Yesterday they pulled a few grand out when it’s typically $400ish. When we called to ask wtf, they didn’t have any answers. We asked about all the unanswered emails and voicemail and if they had in fact gotten them and they confirmed that they had but have just been busy. They have admitted this was their error but are slow playing the return of cash. Now they are requesting a bank statement showing the draft, statements only come out monthly, so we sent a screen shot showing them what they had done and they can’t refund based on the screen shot.  I didn’t realize the bank would allow them to pull just wtf ever they wanted, I assumed they could only pull what was initially set up when the amount was entered at the bank. This has been a good lesson for me. So they typically take the same $400ish monthly and yesterday they take over $4K and they bank never batted an eye. I just didn’t know that’s how it worked.

The initial company was Upshaw Insurance here in Amarillo. The actual carrier is Liberty Mutual, I guess Upshaw just farms it out to other carriers like Liberty Mutual. Upshaw is the one saying they did an audit, LM is the one drafting the funds. 

Their BS audit shows about a 70% increase in sales when in actuality it’s been about a 10% increase over prior year. We have never filed a claim or had any issues. Our two biggest “risk” would be the full bar and hot grease

 

[deadshank 24654]

Use your gross sales report for sales and use tax you send to the comptroller as your evidence of actual sales and send it to them.

 

[orange dream 1295]

Contact Upshaw and tell them that you need some sort of resolution by the close of business on Friday or you will be filing a complaint with the Texas Department of Insurance.

http://www.tdi.texas.gov/consumer/complfrm.html

The mystery audit and erroneous draft of funds with a 10 fold increase and lack or responsiveness to your inquiries is NOT acceptable.  No insurance broker who is reputable will want the TDI to be called over something they can handle, and a broker who has something to hide will do whatever they can to correct it so you don't file the complaint.  Either way you get what you want.  Once resolved, absolutely you should find a new broker and have them file a "broker of record" change and move all your business ASAP.

 

Also cancel the bank draft agreement.

Edited June 13, 2018 by orange dream

[C-Man 27777]

18 hours ago, RMac5 said:

We never spoke to anyone about our sales amounts or an audit. We received an email quoting the new premiums, when we questioned the significant increase they said it was based of off the audit. I called in to ask about the audit and the increase and was told I had x amount of days to dispute it. I pulled all the numbers they needed out of our POS system and emailed it to them. Since they told us we were up against a deadline I asked them to confirm they got my email. They never responded to either of the two emails or a voicemail we left. 

Yesterday they pulled a few grand out when it’s typically $400ish. When we called to ask wtf, they didn’t have any answers. We asked about all the unanswered emails and voicemail and if they had in fact gotten them and they confirmed that they had but have just been busy. They have admitted this was their error but are slow playing the return of cash. Now they are requesting a bank statement showing the draft, statements only come out monthly, so we sent a screen shot showing them what they had done and they can’t refund based on the screen shot.  I didn’t realize the bank would allow them to pull just wtf ever they wanted, I assumed they could only pull what was initially set up when the amount was entered at the bank. This has been a good lesson for me. So they typically take the same $400ish monthly and yesterday they take over $4K and they bank never batted an eye. I just didn’t know that’s how it worked.

The initial company was Upshaw Insurance here in Amarillo. The actual carrier is Liberty Mutual, I guess Upshaw just farms it out to other carriers like Liberty Mutual. Upshaw is the one saying they did an audit, LM is the one drafting the funds. 

Their BS audit shows about a 70% increase in sales when in actuality it’s been about a 10% increase over prior year. We have never filed a claim or had any issues. Our two biggest “risk” would be the full bar and hot grease

 

Yeah, this is bullshit. Upshaw is the broker, Liberty Mutual is the insurer. Brokers don't usually do the audits -- at least not in my world -- that's handled by the insurance company with the broker perhaps serving as the intermediary/quarterback.

What are your total annual insurance premiums? Send me a PM if you'd rather do that. I guess it would short of what our commercial producers would want to get involved with but we've got a pretty good Small Business Unit out of our El Paso office that might like to take a shot.

[El Diablo 4232]

That's bullshit. orangedream has the right idea only I would not threaten to contact TDI, I would be contacting them in addition to taking the other steps suggested. The assholas are in a regulated business and it's regulated for good reason, it's full of scuzzbags. Use the regulatory bozos to your benefit, it's why they're there.

[Hank Scorpio 17924]

Surly Amarillo happy hour? 

[El Diablo 4232]

Is the agents commission based on the size of the premiums? I'd look there first.

[C-Man 27777]

53 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Is the agents commission based on the size of the premiums? I'd look there first.

100%. Higher premium means higher broker commission. However, I can't believe the overage amount is enough to warrant such behavior on the part of Upshaw. It's more likely just plain old shitty service provided by the broker.

[El Diablo 4232]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

100%. Higher premium means higher broker commission. However, I can't believe the overage amount is enough to warrant such behavior on the part of Upshaw. It's more likely just plain old shitty service provided by the broker.

The "audit" thing has me suspicious of the whole mess. I've seen agents do incredibly, stupid, stupid things and for what? A few dollars, literally. The fuck of it is, if caught, they'll come clean or make up a story and make it right. And it leaves a person wondering "how many others have they fucked over who didn't catch it?". It's why I'd go straight to TDI. 

[RMac5 1557]

Thanks for the feedback, it has been a frustrating bullshit ordeal for sure. I will definitely call or contact TDI and see what they have to say. I am traveling today so I am not up to,date on the resolution but either way they have been dicks to,deal with, not to mention the lack of response to both email and voicemail.

absolutely we can Surly HH!

and yes I am going to revisit the whole bank draft situation. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by RMac5