2022-23 MLB offseason thread

[tx 3 putt 77287]

its a long road to october ...

[Guadaloopy 11011]

Machado says he is opting out of the 5 remaining years of his contract with SD after this season.  That's walking away from $150M remaining on the deal.  Seems absolutely bonkers to me.  Trying to get more than 5 yrs at an AAV more than $30M at age 31 is quite a reach.

[tx 3 putt 77287]

 

[Hank Chinaski 6315]

6 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

Machado says he is opting out of the 5 remaining years of his contract with SD after this season.  That's walking away from $150M remaining on the deal.  Seems absolutely bonkers to me.  Trying to get more than 5 yrs at an AAV more than $30M at age 31 is quite a reach.

I hear you, but his own team just gave Bogaerts a deal into his 40s. If he performs in ‘23 anything like he did in ‘22, he probably should opt out. 

[tx 3 putt 77287]

10 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

I hear you, but his own team just gave Bogaerts a deal into his 40s. If he performs in ‘23 anything like he did in ‘22, he probably should opt out. 

he’ll be fine 

[WBT 20650]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

wtf

[tx 3 putt 77287]

7 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

Machado says he is opting out of the 5 remaining years of his contract with SD after this season.  That's walking away from $150M remaining on the deal.  Seems absolutely bonkers to me.  Trying to get more than 5 yrs at an AAV more than $30M at age 31 is quite a reach.

Ny press saying he’s a perfect fit for the Mets ….

https://nypost.com/2023/02/17/manny-machado-is-perfect-fit-as-newest-star-for-mets-to-target/amp/

[UTexasFight 9520]

Yeah after this past offseason, he’d be stupid not to opt out 

[kevwun 15843]

8 hours ago, WBT said:

wtf

but the W stands for Where.

[Dutchrudder 11150]

12 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Ny press saying he’s a perfect fit for the Mets ….

https://nypost.com/2023/02/17/manny-machado-is-perfect-fit-as-newest-star-for-mets-to-target/amp/

I'm sure his agent already put out feelers and knows he can get a lot more. It's the smart thing to do at 31, since playing out the current deal would be his last big contract anyway. He can definitely get more than 5/150 in total money, maybe 7 or 8 for 200ish and lock up that extra money on the tail end of his career. 

[formermav43 4606]

8 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

I'm sure his agent already put out feelers and knows he can get a lot more. It's the smart thing to do at 31, since playing out the current deal would be his last big contract anyway. He can definitely get more than 5/150 in total money, maybe 7 or 8 for 200ish and lock up that extra money on the tail end of his career. 

Given that Bogaerts got 11/280, if 1) he has another season like 2022 and 2) spending next offseason is similar, I wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to 10/300. That seems crazy in a vacuum, and it would have been way out of line with projections as recently as 4 months ago. But it seems like the going rate today.

[Dutchrudder 11150]

31 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Given that Bogaerts got 11/280, if 1) he has another season like 2022 and 2) spending next offseason is similar, I wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to 10/300. That seems crazy in a vacuum, and it would have been way out of line with projections as recently as 4 months ago. But it seems like the going rate today.

Hmmm, I thought Xander was a bit younger, but those two are nearly the same age and have very similar stats and history. So yeah, 10/300 is possible, and it may be the Padres re-upping him, as they now have 1 year to get the deal done before he hits free agency. If they can't extend him, maybe they try to trade him for some value before he walks. It will be interesting to see.

[gsoda3 3280]

Sacramento and Oakland are only 1 hr 20 minutes apart. - 82 miles
Roughly the same time / distance as San Antonio and Austin. - 79 miles
 
 
 

How many are making that daily commute though? It can't be 10% of population or whatever the threshold is. It's also surprising to think Philadelphia and Manhattan are almost as close, about 90 miles.

[tx 3 putt 77287]

33 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

On 2/15/2023 at 12:05 PM, Dnaguy said:

Sacramento and Oakland are only 1 hr 20 minutes apart. - 82 miles
Roughly the same time / distance as San Antonio and Austin. - 79 miles
 
 
 

How many are making that daily commute though? It can't be 10% of population or whatever the threshold is. It's also surprising to think Philadelphia and Manhattan are almost as close, about 90 miles.

Texas govt fucked the pooch not letting someone build the hou / Dallas / Austin / San Antonio / hou bullet train 

[WBT 20650]

Needs that college station stop, whoop

[tx 3 putt 77287]

6 minutes ago, WBT said:

Needs that college station stop, whoop

their train needs to go off a cliff 

[TonyTexas 10521]

Machado didn’t like 10/$255M. 

 

[Beau Vine 54357]

Quote

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. — In the wake of Steve Cohen’s spending and the financial turmoil at Bally regional sports networks, Major League Baseball has started an “economic reform committee.” Less than a year after MLB and the Players Association came to an agreement to end the 2021-22 lockout, the committee’s formation emphasizes that some MLB owners are unhappy enough that they want to discuss major change.

ADVERTISEMENT

“It came out of a recognition of a couple of issues — one new, one old — that were particularly acute for us,” commissioner Rob Manfred said. “The new one’s the local media situation. I think that people see it as an opportunity to rethink the revenue side of the house a little bit, which has been hard in our sport. People entrenched in their local (media dynamics).”

Diamond Sports Group is the parent company of 19 Bally Sports channels, which carry 14 MLB teams. The company appears headed for bankruptcy. If that’s the case, MLB hopes to be in a position to distribute those teams’ games digitally.

“We got to find a new model,” Manfred said. “Maybe we ought to be driving the boat, what that model looks like. So, that’s the new challenge.”

The older challenge Manfred referred to is indeed a long-running topic in the sport: owners who are unhappy about the difference in the amount of money teams make. (For as long as those complaints have existed, so too have rebuttals that the clubs are doing well financially.)

“When you start thinking about the opportunities in terms of a more national (broadcasting) product, it did lead into a conversation about our disparity issues on the revenue side,” Manfred said. “We have businesses that are literally not similar in terms of the overall revenue that they’re generating. And to the extent that you could find a new distribution model that actually helped on that disparity side, that would be the daily double. So people are having conversations that haven’t been had in baseball, and it’s really been owners talking to owners, which is a good thing.”

Most MLB teams’ financial reports are not public, limiting the ability to independently evaluate claims about revenue. The league has ordered studies of its economics in the past. In 2000, under commissioner Bud Selig, the league famously published the Blue Ribbon report, which included input from individuals outside the ownership ranks, including former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell, former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker and columnist George Will.

ADVERTISEMENT

The new group, however, is not producing a report, Manfred said, and is exclusively made up of owners.

“No report,” Manfred said. “It’s a vehicle for owners to talk to owners about how they see the game and what solutions they see. And then try to use that group to go more broadly with the group of 30.”

Mark Walter of the Dodgers, one of the sport’s largest market teams, is chairing the economic reform committee, a person briefed on its formation said. Chris Ilitch of the Tigers, John Henry of the Red Sox and Dick Monfort of the Rockies are among the members of the new committee as well.

What impact the committee will have is to be seen. It could provide a vehicle for MLB to eventually propose major changes to the Players Association, be it in revenue sharing, a formal salary cap or other major modifications. But it could also function more as a political tool for Manfred to allay the concerns of owners who are upset.

Steve’s spending
One leading reason that revenue disparity is newly taking center stage is that Cohen’s Mets enter 2023 with a projected payroll of roughly $370 million, a record.

David Samson, a former president of the Marlins who now hosts the show “Nothing Personal” for CBS Sports, said Friday: “There is so much Steve Cohen-driven right now.”

An industry source briefed on the creation of the committee who was not authorized to speak publicly said Friday that the television concern, while not illegitimate, is a vehicle for MLB to address the fact that Cohen has made “the small market teams go f——- crazy.”

Steve Cohen (Adam Hunger / AP)
“They demand everything’s got to change, and so the answer is to put a study committee together for labor,” the source said. “The whole idea is to basically come up with a system that gets to a salary cap. … Rob didn’t lie by saying it has to do with the RSNs, dealing with the RSNs. Because these teams will lose more money and the disparity will get bigger. So they’re using that excuse to have a study committee.”

ADVERTISEMENT

An official with a rival team told The Athletic in December that Cohen’s spending was “going to have consequences for him down the road.”

The 2022-26 CBA that the owners and MLBPA agreed to 11 months ago included a new tier in the competitive-balance tax system that’s been dubbed the “Steve Cohen tax.” It was named so for the feeling that Cohen, the sport’s richest owner, would be perhaps the only owner who would consider spending enough to reach it in the first place. Cohen has not been afraid to surpass that new, higher threshold, which this year is $293 million.

“There’s gonna be a little bit of panic,” Samson said. “Rob is worried, as he should be. The biggest problem in ’94 was owner vs. owner. Right, that’s really what was going on is the owners were fighting. … (To ratify a CBA, the commissioner needs) 23 votes to pass. If you get eight votes to block, then you can stop everything from happening. And what he is noticing, there’s more problems with owners, and it’s a lot of new owners.

“Owners are now beginning to dislike each other, not just personally, but the economics of the game is something that you’re gonna have to work through. But it’s not coming till ’26. They’re not reopening the collective bargaining agreement. But … they’re working on the new CBA. Now. 

“And that may sound early to you, but it’s not. And the reason they’re working on it now is they’ve got to come up with solutions to get to 23 (votes). Because if they had a vote on a CBA today, given what Steve Cohen’s done, given what the league looks like, here’s a little terrible fact: They don’t have the votes. And that’s a scary thing if you’re the commissioner.”

Manfred said he did not think Cohen has made the most recent CBA look bad.

“I don’t see it that way,” Manfred said. “I mean, look — whether we should have, or shouldn’t have, right, we bought in again to a system that lacked absolute upward limitation on what people can spend. And I mean, I said this at the owners’ meeting: I think our owners understand, that’s what we agreed to. And he can do what he wants to do within the context of that system.”

ADVERTISEMENT

At Mets camp on Saturday, Mets general manager Billy Eppler was asked about the outside complaints about the Mets’ spending. Eppler said that “nobody’s called me and told me that.”

“I just do my job,” he said. “And if Steve says, put together the best team we can, and gives us the resources to do it, I do it.”

Eppler said he was not aware that MLB had started an economic reform committee. Earlier this month, Cohen told ESPN that, “I’ve heard what everyone else has heard: that they’re not happy with me.”

“I kind of look at that like, you’re looking at the wrong person,” he told reporter Jeff Passan. “They’re putting it on me. Maybe they need to look more at themselves.”

Precursor to a cap proposal?
A system with an “absolute upward limitation,” as Manfred referred to, is called a salary cap. If the committee does push in that direction, it would be guaranteed to induce a major labor fight. The 1994-95 strike was centered on MLB’s desire for a cap, and the MLBPA has both a historical and ongoing staunch resistance to that structure. The players would not oppose a salary minimum, but the trade-off for payroll minimums have historically always been a corresponding cap, or something like it.

Manfred said that MLB had not “even started thinking about where we’re going to be the next go-around” when it comes to bargaining. But he appeared to hint in the direction of a cap with another comment, as well.

“When I talk about a more national product, sort of the thought there is that a more national product produces more centrally shared revenue … which, in turn, we hope, would reduce payroll disparities,” Manfred said. “At various times, we have talked and proposed, including in the last round, about direct payroll regulation, in addition to that, having a minimum payroll. It’s like poker: you got to ante at that number if you want to play. We remain open to those sorts of solutions. Obviously, we’re a long way from the next round of bargaining, but there are ways to get at it. There are ways to get at it.”

ADVERTISEMENT

In 2021, early in the last round of negotiations, MLB proposed a system that would have instituted a penalty for teams that did not spend above $100 million. It also would have made the penalties for spending over the luxury-tax threshold more onerous (while dropping the first tier where those penalties kick in to $180 million). So it wasn’t quite a proposal for a firm floor and a firm maximum, but it was a system that would have resembled a cap. The players were not interested.

Asked by The Athletic if he plans to newly push for a cap, Manfred suggested he has a political problem.

“The reality is you got to solve your revenue disparity problem before you can even think about a cap,” Manfred said. “We’re so disparate right now, that it’s almost hard to make — and I mean, literally — the math of a salary cap work. You got to be at a certain level to get an agreement with the players. You start thinking about minimums and maximums, you know all of a sudden, you’re talking about minimums, we have some clubs where …” he said without finishing the thought. 

The gist: teams would disagree as to where a minimum salary would be set.

“I think we’re really focused on the revenue side of the house right now,” Manfred added.

The MLBPA declined comment.

TV trouble
Taming the television side of things is going to be no small feat. Manfred wants to create an MLB-wide streaming product, which fans have been clamoring for.

“What has happened among ownership is they have realized that as we go more digital, there is an opportunity for us to become a more national product,” Manfred said. “And there’s a lot of work that will need to be done on this project. But I think as you move more national, by definition, you’re going to have more central revenue.”

But attempting to centralize revenue creates controversy, too. Put aside that elements of revenue sharing have to be collectively bargained with the players. The individual teams own their digital streaming rights, as opposed to the league office controlling them. Big-market teams with high viewership aren’t going to want share their revenue from those rights with small-market teams, at least not if it’s not worth their while. And an MLB streaming package probably wouldn’t sell well if some of the biggest franchises didn’t participate.

In all, the creation of a new committee sends a clear message that some MLB owners are unhappy. Whether they wind up changing anything through that committee is another matter.

 

[tx 3 putt 77287]

 

 

[TonyTexas 10521]

I was hoping we could go at least a full year before having to discuss the next CBA, which doesn’t expire for another 4 years. 

[Beau Vine 54357]

3 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Manny Machado is seeking a 10-year, $400 million contract after this season.

So am I!

[shadow_operative2.0 16015]

Elvis back to CWS to play 2B. 

[tx 3 putt 77287]

 

[tx 3 putt 77287]

The Red Sox and cubs should be ashamed ….

 

[Beau Vine 54357]

^^^^^

The bottom of that is a lot more interesting than the top.

[Helobious 9464]

4 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

Should’ve recruited some of those Shiner/Schulenberg kids.

[Beau Vine 54357]

58 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Should’ve recruited some of those Shiner/Schulenberg kids.

I think you could pull a whole team of Kaspareks out of Weimar.

[WBT 20650]

Scott Podsednik could probably still pr.  Unless he's been hitting the kolaches too hard.

[henrygandorf 29194]

baseball has begun.

i am watching the padres-mariners game on mlb.tv because it's friday, it's fucking storming out, and it's baseball.

after half an inning, the pitch clock is giving me anxiety.  i don't know how nick martinez felt about it, but my guess is a lot of pitchers won't handle it well.

it will probably shave 8 minutes off every game which i guess is more time i can spend with my family.  great.

[Scraps 13570]

Here...we...go....

[tx 3 putt 77287]

It’s insanity 

[TonyTexas 10521]

The pitch clock cut 25 minutes off the game time when introduced in the minors. There will be lots of pissing and moaning for a while about the new rules by players, coaches, umpires, fans and, especially, Surly. Everyone will make adjustments and get comfortable with them and I think the game, for the most part, will be a better product. 

[TonyTexas 10521]

 

[WBT 20650]

How long are spring training games normally?  Seems like they're faster because no one really gives a fuck.

[tx 3 putt 77287]

 

[Helobious 9464]

4 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

The pitch clock cut 25 minutes off the game time when introduced in the minors. There will be lots of pissing and moaning for a while about the new rules by players, coaches, umpires, fans and, especially, Surly. Everyone will make adjustments and get comfortable with them and I think the game, for the most part, will be a better product. 

The only people that need to adjust to it are the older players. College, minor league, and young MLB players are well used to it by now as it’s been enforced at lower levels for a few years.

[tx 3 putt 77287]

 

[WBT 20650]

f selig

Edited February 25, 2023 by WBT

[shadow_operative2.0 16015]

For those with DirecTV, check your bill. I got Extra Innings for free all season, likely because they lost Sunday Ticket. 

[Scraps 13570]

[henrygandorf 29194]

yeah, this is gonna be a thing. 

[WBT 20650]

All my life, I've heard that if the guy's in the box the pitcher doesn't have to wait on him and can throw it in there.  I don't understand why the hitter is required to do anything beyond being in the box.

[Scraps 13570]

Yeah its dumb. The catcher wasnt even set so the pitcher wasnt going to throw anyway, but if he wanted to he could when the guy is fiddle farting around inside the box.

I didn't realize this whole thing is "batter must be looking at pitcher" fucking little league bullshit

[formermav43 4606]

Is it any more dumb than stepping out of the box, knocking the dirt out of both cleats with the bat, unstrapping and strapping each batting glove, adjusting your jersey, adjusting your crotch, adjusting your batting helmet, unstrapping and strapping your batting gloves again, crossing yourself, and then stepping back in after every single pitch? At least it’s fast.

[Beau Vine 54357]

For fuck's sake, the catcher WAS STANDING UP!!!!

[tx 3 putt 77287]

 

[UTexasFight 9520]

It’s the first week of spring training.

they’ll figure the clock out.

it’s not that fucking hard.

If a bunch of 18 yos in rookie league can do it, pros can figure this shit out 

[Scraps 13570]

Is it any more dumb than stepping out of the box, knocking the dirt out of both cleats with the bat, unstrapping and strapping each batting glove, adjusting your jersey, adjusting your crotch, adjusting your batting helmet, unstrapping and strapping your batting gloves again, crossing yourself, and then stepping back in after every single pitch?

Yes

[WBT 20650]

I blame Mr. Mia Hamm for this

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

I wanted to put ha ha emojis on all the Manchado posts but they were all more reasonable than this version of the simulation where he gets 11/355 as a 31 year old. Offff. 
and this is all while RSN’s are going bankrupt?