Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
59 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Meanwhile notorious criminals like Jaír Bolsonaro run roughshod over that place with impunity. I would like to suggest the reason he’s refusing to concede is because he fears prison like Trump, but no, it’s just because power hungry little shithead’s gonna power hungry little shithead. Prison is very unlikely for him even though every clear thinking person with the slightest modicum of understanding of Brazil’s affairs knows he certainly deserves it.

Thing is that Bolsonaro could just take the loss and work on winning the next election, which given the current state of the world, could easily happen.  But maybe he can't think that far ahead.

Posted
6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Exactly.  That wasn't directed at you.  I fear that if Bolso wants to make a Trump-style shit show out of it, it could be a near thing between the military and the corrupt judiciary.

That’s exactly my concern. Like I said, I’ll be pleasantly surprised if Lula sits in that chair for a single day come January. 

Posted
7 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don’t know why I’m bothering, but are you saying you would have rather had Bolsonaro win?

Look up Operation Carwash and report back.  Lula spent a few years in prison over accepting bribes amongst many other scandals.  He’s crooked as hell.
 

I’m not advocating for Bolsonaro.

Posted
6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Thing is that Bolsonaro could just take the loss and work on winning the next election, which given the current state of the world, could easily happen.  But maybe he can't think that far ahead.

When many voters stop caring about presidents/candidates indicating they want to end democracy, those countries don’t deserve democracy any more.

democracies don’t end with guns, they end when you elect someone who will never allow another free election.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Posted
30 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

When many voters stop caring about presidents/candidates indicating they want to end democracy, those countries don’t deserve democracy any more.

Fuck that. I’m not going to let a bunch of fascist MAGAts dictate that America doesn’t deserve democracy anymore. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

Out of the possible outcomes this was least bad.  Problem is Bolsonaro’s party controls Congress.  So there is likely lots of close combat ahead.  Lula is a typically crooked PT politician but Dilma was the one who ran Brazil so badly it set Bolsonaro up.  
 

Basically nothing like the US frankly.  My dad has lived in Brazil forever and doesn’t really see this significantly altering current issues.  I think you’ll have some headline changes but things like fear of nationalizing Petrobras etc are just silly.  
 

Bolsonaro is just a fascist asshole so him losing is good news no matter what.

  • Hook 'Em 6
  • Like 2
Posted
Out of the possible outcomes this was least bad.  Problem is Bolsonaro’s party controls Congress.  So there is likely lots of close combat ahead.  Lula is a typically crooked PT politician but Dilma was the one who ran Brazil so badly it set Bolsonaro up.  
 
Basically nothing like the US frankly.  My dad has lived in Brazil forever and doesn’t really see this significantly altering current issues.  I think you’ll have some headline changes but things like fear of nationalizing Petrobras etc are just silly.  
 
Bolsonaro is just a fascist asshole so him losing is good news no matter what.

Este.
Posted
2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Look up Operation Carwash and report back.  Lula spent a few years in prison over accepting bribes amongst many other scandals.  He’s crooked as hell.
 

I’m not advocating for Bolsonaro.

Considering your unwavering support for the fascist party here and President Quid Pro Quo, you 100% are. 

You care about corruption in Brazil as much as Trump cared about it in Ukraine.  

  • Hook 'Em 8
Posted
1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Considering your unwavering support for the fascist party here and President Quid Pro Quo, you 100% are. 

You care about corruption in Brazil as much as Trump cared about it in Ukraine.  

Trump believes opposition to fascism is corruption. 

  • Hook 'Em 3
Posted

My couple of takeaways (all of this through the lens of "yes, Brazil is unique and it its own flavor of shitshow, so it's not a perfect analog to the rest of the world, but still..."):

1 -- Bolsonaro is a fascist shitbag.  He rose to power for the same reasons as almost all of the other recent fascist shitbags (Hungary, Italy, USA): general dissatisfaction with the fruits of liberal democracy.  Lots of reasons for that dissatisfaction, some universal, some hyper-local (again, Brazil's problems and history are unique).  But one of them is a shitty social memory of how things were BEFORE liberal democracy.

2 -- the fact that Lula was the alternative (that is, if you wanted to cast a vote for "fuck fascism"), and your choice was between a populist fascist and a crooked system guy.....well, that's one of the reasons that liberal democracy is in a tough spot.  When it has to present an alternative to shitty fascism, it fields piss-poor competition.

3 -- Brazil qua Brazil will likely change very little if the regime even manages to change (I am not counting on Bolsonaro allowing the change to happen without open warfare).  For all of Bolsonaro's shitty rhetoric, in the end, he was just another corrupt and ineffective Brazilian leader.

TLDR; humanity is a piece of dick.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

Perhaps Trudeau can start confiscating their bank accounts.

Or they could just have their licenses taken away for ignoring traffic laws. Either one.

  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
2 hours ago, hpslugga said:

 

Ok, yes to his main point, but I think he's discounting the massive effect social media has had and will continue to have on spreading the tenants of Nationalism.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

Lol, my vegan, environment conscious, save all the animals Brazilian friend is upset about Lula winning cause... communism. 

  • Rage+1 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
1 hour ago, YChang said:

Lol, my vegan, environment conscious, save all the animals Brazilian friend is upset about Lula winning cause... communism. 

Your friend is a fucking moron.  Sorry.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Posted
30 minutes ago, YChang said:

Lol, my vegan, environment conscious, save all the animals Brazilian friend is upset about Lula winning cause... communism. 

image.jpeg.dbe15dcdce8becb05f69a32a5b365f70.jpeg

boo!

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
  • Haha 4
Posted

Lula was one of the most corrupt leaders Brasil had (and similarly to Louisiana in the US that’s saying something)

Even with that he’s 100x better than Latin Trump

Posted

Lula is terrible for pretty much everything except being better than Bolsonaro. “Leftist” is indeed the word to describe him as he’s part of that long Latin American tradition of anti-Western and anti-U.S. knee-jerk reactionary policy, irresponsible economic pandering and corrupt dealing at home, and cozying up to authoritarian regimes as long as they are anti-American. He’ll be a problem on Ukraine, for sure and has already said that Zelenskyy is as much to blame as Putin.  USSR investment in Latin American leftism is paying off decades later. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
12 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Ok, yes to his main point, but I think he's discounting the massive effect social media has had and will continue to have on spreading the tenants of Nationalism.

Yep, I think he makes some valid points, but the one about technology bringing the world closer together tends to ignore some of the more maladaptive parts of it.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
On 10/30/2022 at 10:02 PM, TwiceHorn said:

And a much less robust and separate legal system.  As much as you fuckers like to bitch about it, our legal system stopped Trump in the months following the election and are about our only chance at bringing him to heel.

Did I miss the part where dotard is in jail and no longer spewing his hate-filled lies that are getting closer and closer to having someone killed?  Because I don't recall that happening despite this supposed great legal system of ours.

Posted
17 hours ago, Js1 said:

He ain’t gonna give up that easily 

 

Just because you wish something really hard doesn't make it true. Nowhere else in any established and actual democracy has what happened on January 6th and post January 20th happened. Ever. In the established history of democracies that have peaceful transitions of power. 

Trump is worse than everyone ever in the history of the world. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Rage+1 2
Posted
29 minutes ago, immamac said:

Just because you wish something really hard doesn't make it true. Nowhere else in any established and actual democracy has what happened on January 6th and post January 20th happened. Ever. In the established history of democracies that have peaceful transitions of power. 

Trump is worse than everyone ever in the history of the world. 

Is this sarcasm? Because I really can't tell anymore. If you're serious about this post, please open up a history book and try again.

  • Haha 1
  • Drool 1
  • 2 years later...
Posted (edited)

Former Brazilian President Bolsonaro agreed to a plan to poison President Lula, prosecutor says | AP News

Quote

RIO DE JANEIRO (AP) — Brazil’s prosecutor-general on Tuesday formally charged former President Jair Bolsonaro with attempting a coup to stay in office after his 2022 election defeat, in a plot that included a plan to poison his successor and current President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva and kill a Supreme Court judge.

Prosecutor-General Paulo Gonet alleges that Bolsonaro and 33 others participated in a plan to remain in power. The alleged plot, he wrote, included a plan to poison Lula and shoot dead Supreme Court Justice Alexandre de Moraes, a foe of the former president.

“The members of the criminal organization structured a plan at the presidential palace to attack institutions, aiming to bring down the system of the powers and the democratic order, which received the sinister name of ‘Green and Yellow Dagger,’” Gonet wrote in a 272-page indictment. “The plan was conceived and taken to the knowledge of the president, and he agreed to it.”

Bolsonaro is often seen in Brazil’s yellow-and-green national soccer jersey and the colors have become associated with his political movement.

Bolsonaro’s defense team said it met the accusations with “dismay and indignation,” adding in a statement that the former “President has never agreed to any movement aimed at deconstructing the democratic rule of law or the institutions that underpin it.”

Bolsonaro’s son, Flávio Bolsonaro, who is a senator, said on the social platform X that the indictment was “empty” and there was no evidence of wrongdoing. He accused the Prosecutor-General’s Office of serving “the nefarious interests of Lula.”

 

 

In November, Brazil’s Federal Police filed a 884-page report with Gonet detailing the scheme. They allege a systematic effort to sow distrust in the electoral system, drafting a decree to provide legal cover for the plot, pressuring top military brass to go along with the plan and inciting a riot in the capital.

In the indictment, Gonet described the alleged crimes as part of a chain of events articulated with an overarching objective of stopping Bolsonaro from leaving office, “contrary to the result of the popular will at the polls.”

The Supreme Court will analyze the charges and, if accepted, Bolsonaro will stand trial.

The far-right leader denies wrongdoing. “I have no concerns about the accusations, zero,” Bolsonaro told journalists earlier on Tuesday during a visit to the Senate in Brasilia.

“Have you seen the coup decree, by any chance? You haven’t. Neither have I,” he added.

As well as participating in a coup d’état, the 34 defendants are accused of participating in an armed criminal organization, attempted violent abolition of the democratic rule of law, damage qualified by violence and serious threat against the state’s assets, and deterioration of listed heritage, according to a statement from the Prosecutor General’s press office.

Gonet said the criminal organization he charged “had as leaders the (then) president himself and his running mate, Gen. Braga Netto.”

“Both accepted, stimulated, and performed acts that are described in our criminal legislation as attacking the existence and the Independence of (the branches) of power and of the democratic rule,” Gonet wrote in his report.

The crimes have varying penalties. If Bolsonaro is convicted of attempting a coup and the violent abolition of the democratic rule of law, he could be sentenced to up to 20 years in prison, according to the country’s criminal code.

The indictments, based on manuscripts, digital files, spreadsheets, and message exchanges, expose a scheme to disrupt democratic order, according to the prosecutor-general’s office.

The charges are “historic,” said Luis Henrique Machado, a criminal attorney and professor at the IDP university in Brasilia, adding that he expects the Supreme Court to accept the charges and put Bolsonaro on trial sometime before the end of next year.

“The charges show Brazil’s institutions are robust, independent and agile,” Machado said. “They are a role model for other countries where democracy is at risk.”

Bolsonaro is barred from running in the 2026 election after judges with the country’s top electoral court ruled that he abused his power and cast unfounded doubts on the country’s electronic voting system.

Following Tuesday’s charges, Bolsonaro will “position himself as a victim,” said Carlos Melo, a political science professor at Insper University in Sao Paulo. Bolsonaro has previously said his legal woes are an attempt to stop him from returning to office.

 

“There are polls saying he would be competitive in the 2026 elections against Lula, one of them published today,” said Melo. “There’s going to be political dust, but it will settle.”

 

This should be fun to follow.

Edited by UpperWestside
  • Like 1
Posted
6 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I read Portuguese sufficiently well enough to follow Brazilian news and politics; one thing I'll note here is that Brasil has a functioning judiciary, one that can go after, at various times, both Lula and Bolsonaro - and release Lula as new shit came to light. That said, right now it appears as though whomever Bolsonaro backs in the upcoming elections will be favored.

On 11/1/2022 at 8:48 AM, immamac said:

Nowhere else in any established and actual democracy has what happened on January 6th and post January 20th happened. Ever. In the established history of democracies that have peaceful transitions of power. 

And then 8 January 2023 happened in Brasília (yes, obviously two months after this statement, but the parallels are striking in many ways - save for the fact that the perpetrator in Brasil was banned from running again for 8 years and is once again under indictment for related crimes. Up here in the "First World," not so much.)

Posted
46 minutes ago, flatdawgs said:

I read Portuguese sufficiently well enough to follow Brazilian news and politics; one thing I'll note here is that Brasil has a functioning judiciary, one that can go after, at various times, both Lula and Bolsonaro - and release Lula as new shit came to light. That said, right now it appears as though whomever Bolsonaro backs in the upcoming elections will be favored.

And then 8 January 2023 happened in Brasília (yes, obviously two months after this statement, but the parallels are striking in many ways - save for the fact that the perpetrator in Brasil was banned from running again for 8 years and is once again under indictment for related crimes. Up here in the "First World," not so much.)

Brazil politically (to frame in US parlance) is a bit of a combo of Louisiana and Local DC. 
 

Some corruption is expected and will be forgiven. (Lula himself was convicted for corruption and later had sentence annulled)
 

There have been ~2300 cases of political violence (think crimes vs politicians and family members/staffers) since 2020 but the killing of a sitting President is rare. Bolsnaro himself got stabbed I think in 2018 

Tl:dr Brazil politics are crazy sometimes but this time is exceptionally crazy. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Posted

Great points, and I'll of course defer to your knowledge (plus love your avatar; Floripa is awesome). IIRC Bolsonaro was stabbed on stage during a campaign appearance and the event had a similar impact on the electorate as the Trump shooting did (although Bolsonaro was much more seriously injured). 

The resilience of the Brazilian judiciary is all the more impressive when you take into consideration the political violence and the still extant corruption (great comparison to Louisiana + local DC). The Electoral Court told the blockading truckers to GTFO and they did so. I think there is still some institutional memory of the Diretas Já movement and the end of the military dictatorship; here of course there is no such parallel.

  • Hook 'Em 2


×
×
  • Create New...