2023 Official Astros World Champs Offseason Thread

[TonyTexas 10510]

^^^
Mack just can’t hide the carny in him. Wire transfers don’t sell furniture 

[tx 3 putt 76905]

7 hours ago, rvm96 said:

He averaged 93-94 this year. That is high 90s?

No shift is going to hurt him 

[tx 3 putt 76905]

2 hours ago, DaysOff said:

Fine. Spend the JV money on all the Cubans and Dominicans you can find.

$15,000 each 

[formermav43 4606]

1 hour ago, UDontKnow said:

Whatever happens this offseason, Jose Urquidy should not be traded. You hear that, James Click?

If they resign Verlander, they have to move someone. Urquidy is the obvious choice.

[The Dog 44020]

 

[tx 3 putt 76905]

This is dumb / a bad look but so be it 

[WBT 20561]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

 

David Stearns come on down

[tx 3 putt 76905]

Just now, WBT said:

David Stearns come on down

I’m not giving up a pick or player for him 

[Gourmand 7774]

Man, that is not a good look for Jim Crane

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

Sig Mejdal come on down

[Mitch Hedberg 2090]

Evil Empire strikes again. Now add Luhnow and let the hate flow through you. 
 

But seriously I hope they don’t plan on giving compensation to get Stearns. That makes no sense. 

[LebongJames 1801]

Wow that is crazy. 

[kevwun 15774]

Maybe the Brewers will take money.

[UTexasFight 9431]

6 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Maybe the Brewers will take money.

F selig 

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

I'll reserve judgment for now, but I really hope Crane didn't do this with a solid backup plan in place. His comments about the "structure" of baseball operations leads me to believe he may replace Click with someone already in the FO. I'd be all for bringing in Mejdal or Stearns. I don't want Crane calling the shots with input from various other people. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Seasick Sailor

[tx 3 putt 76905]

I’ll guess internal promotion unless they can reach an agreement for stearns 

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

It's from Bob, so huge grain of salt, but if Ben's speculation is true, I get it:

 

[tx 3 putt 76905]

I have no doubt click was the source 

[UTexasFight 9431]

1 minute ago, Seasick Sailor said:

It's from Bob, so huge grain of salt, but if Ben's speculation is true, I get it:

 

Link/spoiler trash Rosenthal piece?

[Murfdogg21 4412]

I have asked the question related to NFL coaches (e.g. Sean Payton), but if an executive resigns/retires, the team hires a replacement, then the coach wants to go work for another team, the previous team expects/demands compensation because the executive is “still under contract.” If that is true, wouldn’t the former team be forced to pay the executive if they just said “fuck y’all I’m back and unresign! Pay me under the terms of my contract I’m apparently still under!”?

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

1 minute ago, UTexasFight said:

Link/spoiler trash Rosenthal piece?

I cancelled my Athletic subscription when Kaplan left and they never replaced him, but here's a link in case someone else can post it:

 

[Scraps 13561]

Well i, for one, am not shocked. Also not mad at it.

Everyone is gonna come down on Crane over this, but he don't owe Click shit. He has the right to do whatever the hell he wants, and if he doesn't get along with or trust the guy then there should be no expectation of having to keep him. This ain't the Houston Snowflakes. Get to steppin.

[TonyTexas 10510]

2 minutes ago, UTexasFight said:

Link/spoiler trash Rosenthal piece?

Quote

Rosenthal: Uncertainty surrounding Astros GM James Click marring World Series shine

Ken Rosenthal

I don’t know James Click’s personal finances, family dynamics or career ambitions, so it would be presumptuous for me to suggest that he tell Astros owner Jim Crane to stick his one-year offer you-know-where.

But it would be only fitting if Click, the team’s general manager, tells Crane to stick his one-year offer you-know-where.

Crane, at least based on the success of the Astros, is a good owner. That doesn’t mean he is a good boss, and it doesn’t mean he fosters a good culture.

Most Astros fans probably do not care about any such shortcomings, not when the franchise is celebrating a World Series title and sparking talk of a dynasty. But at a time when the team should be drawing universal admiration, Crane is again diminishing its standing within the sport.

The Astros’ illegal electronic sign stealing in 2017 and 2018 was a direct reflection of the franchise’s win-at-all-costs mentality. Crane’s treatment of Click pushes limits in a different way. And it, too, could have long-term ramifications for the club, from the quality of the candidate who might be willing to replace Click to the steps in the future employees might take to placate Crane — a circumstance not unlike the one that got the Astros into trouble previously.

The contracts of both Click and manager Dusty Baker expired on Oct. 31, in the middle of the Series. Baker, 73, accepted a one-year contract to return. He would not be back if he viewed Crane’s offer as illogical or insulting, and his stature gives him a certain measure of security. Click, 44, is in a different position. He is expected to discuss his own one-year offer with Crane on Friday. Unless the offer is for some astronomical sum — unlikely — it’s safe to call it illogical and insulting.

Jim Crane (Erik Williams / USA Today Sports)

I wrote about the strained relationship between Crane and Click on the eve of the Series, saying if the owner wanted to part with the GM, he would need better reasons than the ones cited by sources with knowledge of the situation: Stylistic clashes between the two, disagreements over the size of the baseball operations staff and concern from Click about other voices in the organization influencing the owner.

Crane has yet to publicly discuss any such reasons, which is his right — an owner can do whatever he wants, without explanation. But he hired Click in Jan. 2020 to stabilize the Astros in the wake of the sign-stealing scandal. Click proceeded to do just that, compiling the most regular-season victories in the American League during his three-year tenure, and ahem, capping off an 11-2 postseason with the 2022 World Series title.

And yet, to the incredulity of his peers, he effectively might be forced out.

Click, married with two children, told reporters at the general managers’ meetings Tuesday that his family is happy and settled in Houston. So, maybe he decides he wants to keep the job, warts and all. Even as a lame duck. Even with an owner who is effectively daring him to say no, so he could then claim, “I didn’t fire James. He walked.”

Crane will find another GM if Click departs; the job, one of only 30 in the majors, still will be coveted. Top candidates, though, might steer clear of the Astros, or at the very least ask pointed questions of the owner. And if Crane treats a successful head of baseball operations this ruthlessly, how can other employees feel secure?

On Wednesday, Crane all but admitted that is his M.O., saying at a news conference announcing Baker’s extension that he is “never satisfied.” The problem is that employees who feel threatened will fight, claw, scrap to survive. Previously with the Astros, they cheated, too.

The Astros’ illicit sign stealing was not only player-driven. Lower-level baseball operations staffers developed an algorithm in Excel called “Codebreaker” that helped decode signs more quickly — and when used during games, illegally.

Commissioner Rob Manfred, in his statement announcing the Astros’ penalties, described the culture of the team’s baseball-operations department as “very problematic.” For that, however, Manfred blamed former GM Jeff Luhnow, whom he suspended for one year along with manager AJ Hinch (Crane subsequently fired both). The commissioner actually praised Crane in his report, saying the owner was “extraordinarily troubled and upset by the conduct of members of his organization, fully supported my investigation, and provided unfettered access to any and all information requested.”

Many rival fans to this day remain upset that Manfred did not penalize the Astros’ players, who were granted immunity in exchange for their honest testimony. Manfred ordered the team to pay a $5 million fine and forfeit their first- and second-round draft picks in 2020 and 2021. But he essentially exonerated Crane, as if the owner had nothing to do with the culture Luhnow created, the relentless quest for efficiency, the obsessive search for an edge.

Crane’s history also includes war profiteering and discrimination cases that were filed against his air-freight logistics business, resulting in multiple settlements. Many fans tend to overlook such things; Mets fans love Steve Cohen, even though a firm he owned pleaded guilty to insider trading and paid $1.8 billion in fines, and a former employee filed a gender discrimination suit against him.

If Click moves on, Astros fans can rationalize his departure by saying Luhnow mostly built the club. They can also point to a trade Crane quashed at the deadline, as first reported by ESPN — pitcher Jośe Urquidy to the Cubs for catcher/DH Willson Contreras — as a Click move that might have haunted the Astros. Such quibbles, however, would miss the larger points. How Click settled the franchise in the middle of its greatest crisis. How in his three years he led the team to Game 7 of the ALCS, Game 6 of the World Series and the Series title. And how he managed all this even though he initially was unable to bring his own staffers.

Last offseason, Click hired two assistant GMs, Scott Powers from the Dodgers and Andrew Ball from the Angels; added farm director Sara Goodrum from the Brewers; and boosted the team’s number of scouts from 27 to 38. His loyalty to his own people might be one reason he is reluctant to leave. Those staffers, upon joining the Astros, perhaps knew Click had only one year left on his contract. But they probably could not imagine the situation would deteriorate like this.

Whatever happens, Click will be fine. He is a 2000 graduate of Yale. He spent 15 years with the Rays before Crane hired him; former colleagues of his now run the Rays, Dodgers, Red Sox and Brewers. If he wanted to leave baseball, he surely could adapt his background in research and development to another field. If he wanted to stay in the game, some team would hire him, likely as a special assistant at first, and perhaps allow him to keep his family in Houston.

The Astros, likewise, would figure to remain strong no matter who replaced Click. Crane will continue spending the money necessary to win. But the farm system, damaged by the forfeitures of four top picks, is not what it once was, ranking No. 26 in Baseball America’s midseason rankings. And the team’s reputation, both within the industry and among rival fans, would remain suspect.

Crane evidently doesn’t care. Maybe he shouldn’t care. But his handling of Click is another unfortunate episode for a franchise that has had too many under his ownership, a franchise that should be basking in the glow of its untainted World Series title. It would be difficult to blame Click if he told Crane to stick his offer you-know-where.

(Top photo of James Click: Bob Levey / Getty Images)

 

[tx 3 putt 76905]

4 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Well i, for one, am not shocked. Also not mad at it.

Everyone is gonna come down on Crane over this, but he don't owe Click shit. He has the right to do whatever the hell he wants, and if he doesn't get along with or trust the guy then there should be no expectation of having to keep him. This ain't the Houston Snowflakes. Get to steppin.

crane knew what he was doing when he offered a 1 year contract 

[Murfdogg21 4412]

2 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

[Scraps 13561]

I don't want Crane calling the shots with input from various other people. 

Sure seems like he has already been doing this anyway for a large part.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

5 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

crane knew what he was doing when he offered a 1 year contract 

This.  Pretty decent thing to do actually.  Basically tells Click to see if he can find a better offer, but if not, you have a place here.  I got nothing to criticize Crane about.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

5 minutes ago, Scraps said:

 

 

Sure seems like he has already been doing this anyway for a large part.

 

Sure seems like it's working.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

I understand how it will be perceived publicly for Crane, but it's VERY obvious there was not a good relationship between him and Click and it would be stupid for Jim to keep someone in that role that he does not, for whatever reason, want around.

[Gourmand 7774]

Curious to see if those Click hires Scott Powers, Andrew Ball, and Sara Goodrum stick around and if any of them are in line for the GM gig or if Crane is looking outside the organization. Too bad Putila found another GM gig.....

[Planet Houston 4930]

Crane will take all the heat, but I have zero doubt that Dusty didn’t really want to work with him. 

[Frank Drebin 5663]

Crane has earned my trust.  Best owner a Houston team has ever had.

Would love to get Luhnow back.  I know it is not happening.  But that was the biggest loss due to scandal.

[Rockethorn1978 6077]

I mean why couldn’t we bring lunhow back? Would he come back? Wasn’t a big click fan anyways so idgaf. 

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I mean why couldn’t we bring lunhow back? Would he come back? Wasn’t a big click fan anyways so idgaf. 

My only pause with Luhnow is that he hasn't been in the game for several years.  Kinda like when NFL coaches leave for while and come back.  The game has past them by.  I'm sure Luhnow could catch up quick (if he hasn't already been doing it on the side) and would rely on his team.

[kevwun 15774]

Click was gone when that article came out.  He was clearly the source.

[tx 3 putt 76905]

 

[CycleTex87 2967]

I would expect that Crane has already thought two or three moves ahead, and has a plan in place.  This is not a half assed organization.

Edited November 11, 2022 by CycleTex87

[Gourmand 7774]

8 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I mean why couldn’t we bring lunhow back? Would he come back? Wasn’t a big click fan anyways so idgaf. 

That lawsuit he filed makes it pretty much impossible that he will ever work with Jim Crane again.

[Mitch Hedberg 2090]

How do you fire someone without a contract? Click turned down offer and they parted ways. I really dont get the Crane hate on Twitter from a lot of the blue checks. Buy your own team and run it the way you want if you have a problem. 

[Scraps 13561]

How do you fire someone without a contract?

Click was still currently an at will employee

[LCHorn 2616]

I want Mike Elias.  The Orioles can promote Megdal in his stead, everyone goes home happy.  

[The Dog 44020]

[Gourmand 7774]

Kinda surprised Mike Fast's name isn't being mentioned as a top candidate considering the success the Braves have had since he left Houston in 2018 for the Braves front office. He is currently their VP of Player Development.

[Dnaguy 11943]

1 minute ago, Gourmand said:

Kinda surprised Mike Fast's name isn't being mentioned as a top candidate considering the success the Braves have had since he left Houston in 2018 for the Braves front office. He is currently their VP of Player Development.

[runthebone 7968]

You mean the Click who apparently didn't want Dusty to bat Pena second?

 

Good luck, buddy.

[LCHorn 2616]

22 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Kinda surprised Mike Fast's name isn't being mentioned as a top candidate considering the success the Braves have had since he left Houston in 2018 for the Braves front office. He is currently their VP of Player Development.

I get him and Elias confused all the time and always liked Fast since he wrote for Baseball Prospectus.  I think Fast is a level or two far away and needs to be an assistant GM first.  Presumably being GM of the Astros is the pinnacle or close to it; we shouldn’t have to hire someone that needs to grow into the job.  

[Welch 635]

56 minutes ago, Mitch Hedberg said:

How do you fire someone without a contract? Click turned down offer and they parted ways. I really dont get the Crane hate on Twitter from a lot of the blue checks. Buy your own team and run it the way you want if you have a problem. 

I’m no huge fan of Click, and I think Crane has earned the benefit of the doubt in my eyes, but this is a bit much.  

Fans have a right to criticize.  McLane got well-deserved criticism.  The McNairs get it.  Bud Adams definitely got it.  No one needs to own a team to have an opinion.

Crane deserves criticism if he has no plan in place and this move ultimately hurts the franchise.  Again, though, his run of success gives him the benefit of the doubt for now in my book.

[Soliver465 404]

Click thought he had leverage, but he and Ken Rosenthal can go fuck themselves.

 

I'll take Crane/Dusty over the writers.

[cabowabo 4484]

I guess Click had something else lined up. Otherwise, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t stay another year.  Hell, I could GM this team to 100 wins next year. 

[LCHorn 2616]

2 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

I guess Click had something else lined up. Otherwise, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t stay another year.  Hell, I could GM this team to 100 wins next year. 

Click may have been more intentional than presumed here.  He should be in a great position to serve as an assistant GM for someone for a year and see what comes open.  Maybe he considered that preferable to another year of Crane.  Even unemployed his resume is going to have “reigning world champion” at the top.