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2023 Official Astros World Champs Offseason Thread

tx 3 putt

By tx 3 putt
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tx 3 putt
tx 3 putt

You wanted us. You got us.  You got your asses beat !   Let's do it again in 2023     

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

love these articles and comments from the mlb media about marring a world series or how the baseball world will be critical of the astros for this move. get. the. fuck. out. with. that. nonsense.

MaybeACoordinator
MaybeACoordinator

Going through old pics because of the death of my grandmother / mom and came across this -- 1996, my son's first Astros game.

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runthebone

runthebone 7982

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The free agency predictors had him around 3/36.  I don't know that it's an overpay, it's not the optimal use of this money.  Hopefully, Crane is committed to increasing the budget.

As for the bullpen, Stanek will be worse next year and wasn't trusted in the playoffs for a reason.  Abreu was amazing but is still young.  Neris actually had the worst ERA of the high leverage guys, although he was great in the playoffs.  It's insurance for Pressly, whose velocity never came back up.  I mean, as long as Crane is spending, I'm ok with it even though I wouldn't have done it.

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rvm96

rvm96 1643

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1 minute ago, runthebone said:

The free agency predictors had him around 3/36.  I don't know that it's an overpay, it's not the optimal use of this money.  Hopefully, Crane is committed to increasing the budget.

As for the bullpen, Stanek will be worse next year and wasn't trusted in the playoffs for a reason.  Abreu was amazing but is still young.  Neris actually had the worst ERA of the high leverage guys, although he was great in the playoffs.  It's insurance for Pressly, whose velocity never came back up.  I mean, as long as Crane is spending, I'm ok with it even though I wouldn't have done it.

He also was 14/16 with save opportunities when Pressly was out. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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1 hour ago, kevwun said:

Yeah if it doesn’t effect any other signings, it’s not a big deal.  Won’t know that for awhile though

Dear God I hope this is not the moment we look back on in a few years and say “That is where it all started to go to shit” but for numerous reasons already cited here, I am not a huge fan of this deal, not even a little bit. 

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formermav43

formermav43 4606

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

It’s funny that 6 consecutive ALCS appearances and 2 World Series championships in 6 years doesn’t earn this  Astros organization even a smidgen of trust. 

I trust that they’ll make more moves and still have a good team. It’s not the end of the world.

But even I give them the full benefit of the doubt and Montero is the best setup man in baseball for the next 3 year, it’s *still* a poor allocation of resources given the needs of the team.

Edit: I’d add that this sort of move seems antithetical to a typical Astros’ move, too. I’m not sure who is running the ship right now and if they have, in fact, earned the trust you speak of.

Edited by formermav43
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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1 hour ago, rvm96 said:

I don't feel as bad now that I compared it to Robert Suarez's deal. Montero pitched something like 20 more innings also

Who cares what dumbass shit other orgs are doing though?  We had zero need for him and to pay him 11.5 a year is just grossly unnecessary with the other holes on the team, unless the desire is to spend 250M or something in which case/ fuck it great move I guess. 
Now, if we DFA Maton and trade Neris for a couple prospects I’m onboard with that/ that is a financially net neutral move that doesn’t affect us anywhere else. 
We saw in the playoffs though- you really don’t need/won’t use more than about 8 or 9 pitchers in your path to victory. The rest are like hood ornaments or to use in a loss to keep your 8 path to victory pitchers refer and ready. 
JV/LMJ/Framber/Javier/Presley/Abreu/Neris/Stanek are plenty enough arms to win any 4 out of 7. On top of that you have Brown as a bridge, Urquidy to eat innings in a loss and Garcia in a playoff game where you need length in extra innings. 
committimg more resources to go beyond that is just financial malpractice (if you have a budget). Let other teams be stupid. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18860

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3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Who cares what dumbass shit other orgs are doing though?  We had zero need for him and to pay him 11.5 a year is just grossly unnecessary with the other holes on the team, unless the desire is to spend 250M or something in which case/ fuck it great move I guess. 
Now, if we DFA Maton and trade Neris for a couple prospects I’m onboard with that/ that is a financially net neutral move that doesn’t affect us anywhere else. 
We saw in the playoffs though- you really don’t need/won’t use more than about 8 or 9 pitchers in your path to victory. The rest are like hood ornaments or to use in a loss to keep your 8 path to victory pitchers refer and ready. 
JV/LMJ/Framber/Javier/Presley/Abreu/Neris/Stanek are plenty enough arms to win any 4 out of 7. On top of that you have Brown as a bridge, Urquidy to eat innings in a loss and Garcia in a playoff game where you need length in extra innings. 
committimg more resources to go beyond that is just financial malpractice (if you have a budget). Let other teams be stupid. 

Hmmmmm.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18860

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11 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I trust that they’ll make more moves and still have a good team. It’s not the end of the world.

But even I give them the full benefit of the doubt and Montero is the best setup man in baseball for the next 3 year, it’s *still* a poor allocation of resources given the needs of the team.

Edit: I’d add that this sort of move seems antithetical to a typical Astros’ move, too. I’m not sure who is running the ship right now and if they have, in fact, earned the trust you speak of.

You're not sure who's running the ship?

Really?

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I trust that they’ll make more moves and still have a good team. It’s not the end of the world.

But even I give them the full benefit of the doubt and Montero is the best setup man in baseball for the next 3 year, it’s *still* a poor allocation of resources given the needs of the team.

Edit: I’d add that this sort of move seems antithetical to a typical Astros’ move, too. I’m not sure who is running the ship right now and if they have, in fact, earned the trust you speak of.

Really really really well said. 
the Astros success is pointed directly to JL- don’t get that twisted in any way shape or form. He built an incredible machine that just spit out Peña and Brown and is probably all but spent now (unless Whitley becomes a thing). 
They have done almost nothing to meaningfully add to what he did. This is probably the most anti JL move ever. 

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formermav43

formermav43 4606

Posted
Posted
Just now, David Dennison said:

You're not sure who's running the ship?

Really?

Ok, let’s say it’s Crane then.

Crane has had a voice in things things, and it’s clear he should. But would you trust him to unilaterally make all roster decisions? Would you say he’s earned that trust? No and no.

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formermav43

formermav43 4606

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4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Really really really well said. 
the Astros success is pointed directly to JL- don’t get that twisted in any way shape or form. He built an incredible machine that just spit out Peña and Brown and is probably all but spent now (unless Whitley becomes a thing). 
They have done almost nothing to meaningfully add to what he did. This is probably the most anti JL move ever. 

I’ll give him some credit and call it an anti-Click move too. I know you’ve griped about his paying relievers, and the Baez deal in particular was bad-but it was only $12.5 total. Even if Nerris is arguably overpaid, the trade for Montero and signing Stanek were great deals.

He hunts for value, probably to a fault since he won’t spend the money even when it’s there. I don’t think he’d make this move either.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18860

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5 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Ok, let’s say it’s Crane then.

Crane has had a voice in things things, and it’s clear he should. But would you trust him to unilaterally make all roster decisions? Would you say he’s earned that trust? No and no.

Do you think that's what's happening in the front office?

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Hmmmmm.

Yeah- maybe. Here’s what chaps my AAA about this deal- we all said we’d be happy with 3/100 for JV right?  And everyone was fine with letting Montero walk?  Well, if JV won’t do 3-100 (he won’t) this 35M is the difference between that and 3/135…

Hell, we really in all probability don’t need either a Montero or JV, especially if we use that money instead for Abreu, Contreras and Conforto as a for example. This just reeks of bringing the gang all back which is almost never the right answer. 
 

compare the WS roster (which looks like we are looking to bring back) to this one and tell me what’s better:

Contreras/Maldy/Abreu/Altuve/Peña/Bregman/Hensley/Yordan/Conforto/Tucker/Chas/Y Diaz/Meyers

Framber/Javier/LMJ/Brown/Garcia/Urquidy/Presley/Abreu/Neris/Stanek/Martinez/mushinski/Peredes

that is 195M plus you add on bullshit of like 15M  that’d still give you 25M to spend at the deadline to fill any holes (hint- there are no holes outside of injury)  

 

so, if you don’t bring back JV cool, but move on so you can sign Contreras/Abreu and Conforto, not so you can overpay the shit out of Montero and bring back the old and the injured  

 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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10 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I’ll give him some credit and call it an anti-Click move too. I know you’ve griped about his paying relievers, and the Baez deal in particular was bad-but it was only $12.5 total. Even if Nerris is arguably overpaid, the trade for Montero and signing Stanek were great deals.

He hunts for value, probably to a fault since he won’t spend the money even when it’s there. I don’t think he’d make this move either.

Those things are true.  But, he did give Neris 3/24 which is on about the same level as this. Maybe slightly less egregious. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14681

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29 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Absolutely should be all in on that 2/25 with an opt out for him. Much better idea than Brantley. 

The problem with Brantley, he's a DH only now. Even when he was healthy last year, he was awful in LF and his baserunning is becoming bad, due to the loss of his athleticism. Coming off a shoulder injury and surgery, he's now completely unplayable in the OF.

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rvm96

rvm96 1643

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32 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Who cares what dumbass shit other orgs are doing though?  We had zero need for him and to pay him 11.5 a year is just grossly unnecessary with the other holes on the team, unless the desire is to spend 250M or something in which case/ fuck it great move I guess. 
Now, if we DFA Maton and trade Neris for a couple prospects I’m onboard with that/ that is a financially net neutral move that doesn’t affect us anywhere else. 
We saw in the playoffs though- you really don’t need/won’t use more than about 8 or 9 pitchers in your path to victory. The rest are like hood ornaments or to use in a loss to keep your 8 path to victory pitchers refer and ready. 
JV/LMJ/Framber/Javier/Presley/Abreu/Neris/Stanek are plenty enough arms to win any 4 out of 7. On top of that you have Brown as a bridge, Urquidy to eat innings in a loss and Garcia in a playoff game where you need length in extra innings. 
committimg more resources to go beyond that is just financial malpractice (if you have a budget). Let other teams be stupid. 

I'm just trying to look on the bright side but I hear you

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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8 minutes ago, rvm96 said:

I'm just trying to look on the bright side but I hear you

Look- if we spend 250M or 260M I love this love. It’s awesome. Because he’s clearly a useful player that performed well for us and we should be very happy to have him back if it doesn’t preclude us from doing the other stuff. I just don’t buy that we will spend 250 or 260 but should have probably held my fire until we see. 
But holding your fire for 3 months isn’t fun or usually done on a message board. 😊

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

How much of a discount do you think Justin Verlander is willing to give the Astros? 

Almost none. The only thing I could see is him agreeing to go option year bc he trusts Crane and likes it here and I get the sense he’s a creature of habit/likes things a certain way. 
homeslty- if he’s going for 3/120 or 3/130 as I suspect he does I hope it’s to the Yanks or Dodgers. 

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Hank Chinaski

Hank Chinaski 6315

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Almost none. The only thing I could see is him agreeing to go option year bc he trusts Crane and likes it here and I get the sense he’s a creature of habit/likes things a certain way. 
homeslty- if he’s going for 3/120 or 3/130 as I suspect he does I hope it’s to the Yanks or Dodgers. 

Same. I love JV and hope he returns, but guaranteeing him $130mm at this point seems likely to bite you in the ass. Maybe he’ll be 1989-1991 Nolan Ryan and we’ll all be pissed if he does that as a Yankee…I wouldn’t be shocked by that but I wouldn’t bet on it either.

(Not to mention the opportunity cost of that kind of deal - when we still have Framber, Javier, LMJ, Garcia, Urquidy, Brown, etc.)

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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1 minute ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Same. I love JV and hope he returns, but guaranteeing him $130mm at this point seems likely to bite you in the ass. Maybe he’ll be 1989-1991 Nolan Ryan and we’ll all be pissed if he does that as a Yankee…I wouldn’t be shocked by that but I wouldn’t bet on it either.

Even if he replicated this regular season I wouldn’t pay him if he was also going to replicate his post season. He was bad in 2 starts and shaky but effective in the other 2- white knuckle time. 
If we played the Dodgers in the World Series and he was their ace or two going up against Framber or Javier I’d feel good about our chances. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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2 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

We might not win a single game next year.

Good lord, man up you fucking pussies.

Literally nobody is saying that. At all. We are all saying pretty much exactly the opposite, that it’s spending money in an area that already kicks ass that would be better spent elsewhere. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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Posted
Just now, billfromlaketravis said:

I’m ok with the Montero contract given how relief pitcher signings have been trending. 
 

It’ll sting, but smart franchise let guys like Yuli and Brantley walk. 
 

How healthy is Conforto? Has he worked out for teams yet? 

He worked out for us in August and we offered a contract for him, so he must be healthy enough. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14681

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, texashorne said:

Based solely what I spent at the team store at the WS and since then, Crane's budget should go way the F up. 

Crane prints money at the ballpark. Those signs behind home plate easily make him $10M+ per season. It behooves him to keep the Astros as good as possible because while Houston loves the Astros, we are a fickle fanbase that will not spend money when our teams are really bad.

 

Crane went from a heavily leveraged owner financially, to a billionaire once the team turned the corner.

Edited by HtownHorn
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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Posted
1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I can’t imagine letting the Montero signing get me as fired up as wulaw.  We won the WS a week ago, I’m not going to bitch and whine about what the best owner in professional sports does with his own money.

I can’t imagine getting fired up about changing the offense heading into 2010. We just won a national title and just played for another one. 
pretty clearly everyone here that pays attention and follows the Astros with anything more than cursory attention hated this deal. Hell, I even said if it was surplus and we are blowing out the payroll (or if we are moving on from other similar priced bullpen guys) it’s fine. 
the owner sets the tone. A WS isn’t good enough and we strive to get better every day. A fan (short for fanatic) can’t  get fired up?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18860

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4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I can’t imagine getting fired up about changing the offense heading into 2010. We just won a national title and just played for another one. 
pretty clearly everyone here that pays attention and follows the Astros with anything more than cursory attention hated this deal. Hell, I even said if it was surplus and we are blowing out the payroll (or if we are moving on from other similar priced bullpen guys) it’s fine. 
the owner sets the tone. A WS isn’t good enough and we strive to get better every day. A fan (short for fanatic) can’t  get fired up?

Are you really worried that signing Montero is going to prevent Jim Crane from filling a position of need? 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19070

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1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Re-signing Montero is like the exact opposite of that. Feel better now?  Cool thy jets, my man.

Except it’s not. It’s a move away from analytically based decision making and value signings which was the hallmark of this team getting where it is, and apparently Bagwell and Reggie Jackson now have the owners ear instead of math quant dorks and management consultants that built what has been so successful. 
that’s the move away. If we now have enough money to cover that kind of spending cool. 

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