2023 Official Astros World Champs Offseason Thread

[kevwun 15782]

I'd root for Judge if he signed with the Astros and I fucking hate him.

[UTexasFight 9432]

49 minutes ago, JohnnyTapia said:

Thoughts? I guess this means Yuli is gone

Give me alllllll the left handed pull hitters with no shift 

 

[Jebus 1306]

I do enjoy the thought of forcing the yankees to panic spend to keep rizzo if he doesn’t come here for a reasonable contract and then either panic spending even more to keep judge or else just losing him entirely and then watching them convincing themselves it was for the best anyway, since it turns out that guy just wasn’t cut out for the Bronx 

[kevwun 15782]

I don't think Judge wants anything to do with the Yankees.   It appears he wants the hell out of New York.

[henrygandorf 29190]

50 minutes ago, Planet Houston said:

Rizzo’s agent is on speed dial and corner OF is a priority. Not center.

not sure i get this.  didn't we just hear a story about how yordan will play more in the field next year? 

[kevwun 15782]

I think that was from Click.

[Scraps 13561]

not sure i get this.  didn't we just hear a story about how yordan will play more in the field next year? 

Yeah and the guy who said that has no job right now

[UTHornFan014 710]

Would rather add Abreu (along with Conforto) than Rizzo. Don't really want us losing the 2nd round pick or international signing money when there are first base options without QOs

[UTHornFan014 710]

The Yankees fans freaking out on Twitter about the Rizzo rumors is great though!

We should also leak that we have some interest in Judge and really make them lose their shit

[Jebus 1306]

I do wonder what the discussion/decision making process is like right now in the organization. 
 

if the story about baker intervening in the proposed Contreras trade is true I would guess he’d have something to say one way or the other about jettisoning yuli or at least moving him out of that 1B spot. 

[kevwun 15782]

I think there was push back on Contreras from more than one person.  The price (Urquidy) was too steep for some and others didn't want him because he is apparently a problem in the clubhouse.  It was a bad trade all around.

[tx 3 putt 76932]

 

[Jebus 1306]

3 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I think there was push back on Contreras from more than one person.  The price (Urquidy) was too steep for some and others didn't want him because he is apparently a problem in the clubhouse.  It was a bad trade all around.

For sure, just saying that dusty clearly felt fine going to the owner with his concerns over that, so I’m guessing he would do the same here if he were upset about replacing a guy who’s been one of “his guys”.  
 

whether it would change anything is another story, but you’d like to have dusty on board in case the rest of the team gets upset about losing/pushing out a longtime teammate. 

[tx 3 putt 76932]

23 minutes ago, UTHornFan014 said:

Would rather add Abreu (along with Conforto) than Rizzo. Don't really want us losing the 2nd round pick or international signing money when there are first base options without QOs

If the Astros do land Rizzo, they will lose their 2nd round pick, slot money, and $500K from the international pool in 2023

[tx 3 putt 76932]

[UTHornFan014 710]

7 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

If the Astros do land Rizzo, they will lose their 2nd round pick, slot money, and $500K from the international pool in 2023

Yeah - Don't think he is worth that with other options available 

[henrygandorf 29190]

16 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

and $500K from the international pool in 2023

that's like 50 cristian javiers.  not worth it, imo.

[tx 3 putt 76932]

abreu :

 

 

rizzo :

 

[texashorne 1177]

7 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

that's like 50 cristian javiers.  not worth it, imo.

Or 100 no hitters

[WBT 20564]

Rizzo would bring back the hbp energy we've been missing since Bidge hung them up

Edited November 15, 2022 by WBT

[HtownHorn 14678]

Lots of overestimating a 2nd round pick over signing a productive MLB player. The window is now, so you always take productive MLB players over draft picks and prospects.

[tx 3 putt 76932]

 

[henrygandorf 29190]

if abreu had yuli's at bats this season he would've broken hack wilson's rbi record.

Edited November 15, 2022 by henrygandorf

[tx 3 putt 76932]

 

[texashorne 1177]

1 hour ago, kevwun said:

I'd root for Judge if he signed with the Astros and I fucking hate him.

This from the buzzer BS? Honest question. Outside of that and being a Yankee I think he's a pretty good dude. 

Garden can suck it. So can Donaldson. 

Just now, texashorne said:

This from the buzzer BS? Honest question. Outside of that and being a Yankee I think he's a pretty good dude. 

Garden can suck it. So can Donaldson. 

*Gardner

[kevwun 15782]

It's being a Yankee.  He's their best player, so I hate him.  I'm already warming up to him because he's getting ready to rip the hearts out of their fanbase.  I will immediately hate JV if signs with the Yankees or Dodgers.

Edited November 15, 2022 by kevwun

[runthebone 7981]

It would be hilarious if the plan is to leak info so the Yankees give Rizzo a huge contract, then the Astros turn around and sign Abreu.

Edited November 15, 2022 by runthebone

[tx 3 putt 76932]

 

[HtownHorn 14678]

6 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

Billy's kid. Welcome back home.

[Planet Houston 4930]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

abreu :

 

 

rizzo :

 

Great info, thanks for sharing.

Here’s my dummy question - how does Rizzo have a higher barrel % yet a significantly lower average exit velo and hard hit %? 

[kevwun 15782]

Abreu swings faster, but Rizzo makes better contact.

Edited November 15, 2022 by kevwun

[runthebone 7981]

Rizzo is 99th percentile for standing close to the plate.

[tx 3 putt 76932]

7 minutes ago, runthebone said:

It would be hilarious if the plan is to leak info so the Yankees give Rizzo a huge contract, then the Astros turn around and sign Abreu.

 

id be very very good with this 

[tx 3 putt 76932]

 

damn good watch about elite relievers in general 

[tx 3 putt 76932]

 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

3 hours ago, Jebus said:

Not as bad as I was fearing but then again the early projections I saw turned out to be way less than the actual numbers for montero

 

still 2 years isn’t a huge commitment. Are there any up and coming 1B candidates in the farm system?

Not really. But, keep in mind the best prospects aren’t ever first basemen as prospects. That’s sort of a position you end up at in the higher minors if everything else doesn’t work out and your bat carries you enough. 

[Snake Diggity 4622]

Any one of Bell, Rizzo, or Abreu would be a great fit for Houston’s lineup and clubhouse.  Those 3 are pretty far separated from all the other available 1B options, whether trade, free agent, or internal.  Yandy Diaz would be the only trade target I think could be as good as those 3.  If they aren’t going to go get one of those 4 guys, I just as soon they roll with some combo of Matijevic, Yainer Diaz, and Hensley at 1B and bring back Yuli on a cheap one year as a bench bat/insurance.  But I do expect Houston to sign one of the big 3 free agent 1B.

Don't count Verlander out.  I think Crane likes him enough that if he circles back after shopping around, the last offer will still be valid even if it means going over the tax threshold.  Odds have certainly gone down since the end of the season but it’s not over with him until he officially signs elsewhere.  Good news is Houston will be just fine either way.

The next 2 seasons should be the most talented rosters Houston has ever fielded.

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

9 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Any one of Bell, Rizzo, or Abreu would be a great fit for Houston’s lineup and clubhouse.  Those 3 are pretty far separated from all the other available 1B options, whether trade, free agent, or internal.  Yandy Diaz would be the only trade target I think could be as good as those 3.  If they aren’t going to go get one of those 4 guys, I just as soon they roll with some combo of Matijevic, Yainer Diaz, and Hensley at 1B and bring back Yuli on a cheap one year as a bench bat/insurance.  But I do expect Houston to sign one of the big 3 free agent 1B.

Don't count Verlander out.  I think Crane likes him enough that if he circles back after shopping around, the last offer will still be valid even if it means going over the tax threshold.  Odds have certainly gone down since the end of the season but it’s not over with him until he officially signs elsewhere.  Good news is Houston will be just fine either way.

The next 2 seasons should be the most talented rosters Houston has ever fielded.

Any idea what the offer is to JV that wasn’t good enough?  Someone is going to seriously pay him imo. If the offer is something like 3/105 he gone for sure. If it’s more like 3/120 or 2/85 he might circle back and take it. 

[Amos Moses 795]

Any of those offers are obscene for a 40 year old power pitcher. I thank him for the legendary performances in his time as an Astro and wish him well.

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

Anyone have access to this? It's the talk of Twitter this morning:

 

[kevwun 15782]

Ok look, another hit piece.

[texashorne 1177]

"Jerry Jones" is the new theme song for the media now in reference to the Astros, fueled by the hope that we will fall into decades long mediocrity because of shitty moves by the owner. 

Could easily be Robert Kraft but no that won't get the clicks.

Keep letting the hate flow it seems to be working

 

[HtownHorn 14678]

5 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Ok look, another hit piece.

Pretty much. Astros bad, Bagwell stupid, Reggie mad. All anonymous sourced = Click.

[kevwun 15782]

Keep booing also, the Astros feed on it.

[WBT 20564]

Spoiler

In the six days between the Houston Astros winning a World Series and getting rid of their general manager, members of the organization, from players to coaching staff to front office, called one another trying to piece together what was happening.

Over the last year, the disarray in the Astros' front office had exposed itself often enough that employees at all levels wondered how, exactly, an organization so adept on the field could be so chaotic among those tasked with building that on-field unit. They knew about the palace intrigue, had watched the behind-the-scenes machinations that had persisted throughout the season. They had one Hall-of-Fame advisor with a reputation for yelling at people, another frequently questioning the organization's direction. All the while, a general manager was under siege, and the owner who had vowed to take a more hands-on approach because of that crisis watched it all play out.

But suddenly, last week, the information spigot turned off. Rumors swirled about the future of the organization, and no one could get an answer. By Friday, after the news of James Click's eyebrow-raising ouster, one thing was clear: The only person with clarity over what was happening with the Astros -- owner Jim Crane -- was disinclined to tip his hand.

Now, those inside the Astros are asking questions that World Series-winning teams rarely must ask. Is the team that reached six American League Championship Series, four World Series and won a pair of championships in the last half-dozen seasons really considering pivoting from the analytics-heavy approach that built the team into a monster? Without Click, who will shepherd the team forward? And is the answer to that question perhaps the person already at the center of the front-office dysfunction?

"Sometimes I wonder if Jim thinks he's Jerry Jones," said one Astros employee, who was among the dozen people with knowledge of the organization with whom ESPN spoke to better understand the inner workings of arguably the most successful franchise in baseball. Not since Larry MacPhail in 1947 has a championship franchise parted ways with its top baseball executive so soon after a title, but what became clear over those conversations was Crane's willingness to meddle in baseball-operations decisions, much like the Dallas Cowboys owner who also serves as GM. It's a path certainly in Crane's purview as owner but rare among his peers in baseball -- and it suggests that Click's work always came with impediments.

Crane, sources said, felt coming into the 2022 season that the team needed more "baseball men" involved in operations decisions and invited Hall of Famers Jeff Bagwell and Reggie Jackson into the team's weekly senior baseball-operations meetings. Crane, sources said, killed an agreed-upon deal for Chicago Cubs catcher Willson Contreras at the trade deadline. Crane, sources said, this week personally negotiated the three-year, $34.5 million contract that brought reliever Rafael Montero back to the team -- a deal that was widely seen in the industry as a hefty price to give a 32-year-old with only one good full big league season.

It's a trend that began in February 2020, during the Astros' first press conference addressing the crisis-causing sign-stealing scandal, when Crane said he planned to be more hands-on with baseball operations. Crane had brought on Click and manager Dusty Baker after firing GM Jeff Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch in the wake of the scandal.

What Crane had appreciated most about Luhnow was the conviction with which he made decisions, sources said. Crane appreciated, two sources familiar with his thinking said, the efficiency and ruthlessness of Luhnow's operation, seeing it was similar to how Crane ran his other businesses.

Over time, Crane would learn that was not Click's style. Though Click wasn't indecisive, he did not preen about with what one person deemed Luhnow's "institutional arrogance, which Jim actually thought was an admirable thing." Going to an ALCS in his first season and a World Series in his second bought Click little goodwill, and he came into the 2022 season in the final year of his contract and with support at the ownership level withering, sources said.

Disagreements over player evaluations furthered the chasm between the sides and further isolated Click. Baker was among those who convinced Crane to kill the trade that would have sent right-hander Jose Urquidy to the Cubs for Contreras. Bagwell, who "Jim might trust more than anyone," according to one source familiar with their relationship and corroborated by another, was critical of the Astros' player-development system, even as it was graduating eventual ALCS and World Series MVP Jeremy Peña. Jackson, who joined the Astros in May 2021 as an "executive assistant" despite never playing for the organization, yelled at members of the team's front office this year and later would apologize, according to sources.

Had the Astros lost in the postseason, Crane almost certainly would have fired Click before his contract expired Oct. 31. But they didn't lose. The team Click helped assemble -- the team he had stabilized in the aftermath of a scandal that left it tottering -- kept winning.

When Crane did discuss a contract with Click, between the team's championship parade and Click leaving for the GM meetings in Las Vegas, Crane offered him a perfunctory deal: one year with a minimal raise, according to sources. Compared to the contracts extended to Click's peers with similar resumes, the offer was seen by the industry as an insult. Click went to Las Vegas anyway, continuing to represent the organization, and said he was "optimistic" they would come to an agreement. Instead, three days later -- six days after he earned his first World Series ring -- he was out of a job, as was Scott Powers, one of the assistant GMs he hired this year. (Click declined to comment for this story, as did the Astros.)

For now, Crane has elevated new assistant general manager Bill Firkus, one of the highest-ranking officials left from the 2017 championship team sullied by sign stealing, to manage the day-to-day operations of inquiring about free agents and potential trades, according to teams speaking with the Astros. Firkus, along with Andrew Ball, one of Click's assistant GMs, and Charles Cook, whom Crane promoted to assistant GM earlier this week, remain. They are the braintrust, though multiple people in the organization fear their authority, like Click's, will be usurped by the former players to whom Crane regularly listens.

Internally, multiple names have surfaced for who could take over as general manager, from Baltimore assistant general manager Sig Mejdal (also a vital front-office member of the Astros during the Luhnow era) to recent Oakland A's bench coach Brad Ausmus (the former Astros catcher was in Houston on Friday, according to sources, and met with Bagwell, though it was unclear whether the possibility of Ausmus joining the front office was broached). David Stearns, a well-regarded former Astros assistant GM under Luhnow, resigned in October as president of baseball operations for the Milwaukee Brewers but plans to stay for the final year of his contract in an advisory capacity. "I'm just going to reiterate what I said previously: I'm not going anywhere," Stearns told MLB.com.

The notion of Crane turning his back on the quantitative analysis that underpinned Luhnow's decision-making strikes some Astros employees as biting the hand that feeds him, though Crane has suggested he's seeking more of a balance between scouting and statistics, sources said. Which of the reported candidates becomes the ultimate decision-maker in the baseball-operations department could foretell Crane's leanings there.

Mejdal was hired in 2012 as the Astros' director of decision sciences, a title that drew sneers at the time, but today illustrates how advanced the team was. A former NASA engineer, Mejdal is regarded as one of the smartest people in the game, adept at numbers and talking baseball. He joined former Astros scouting director Mike Elias, who went to run the Baltimore Orioles in 2018, as an assistant GM and has helped oversee the organization's transition from laughingstock to budding power.

Whether or not Ausmus is ultimately a candidate, someone of his ilk -- a former player whose ability to grasp analytics makes him more suitable to the modern game -- could appeal to Crane. Ausmus, who has managed Detroit and the Los Angeles Angels, has expressed an openness toward potentially taking a front-office job in the right situation, according to sources. He previously served as a field executive with the San Diego Padres and a special assistant to the GM with the Angels.

If Crane does fill the job -- multiple people inside the Astros believe he could decide to run the team a la Jones -- the lessons are clear: The person needs to appeal to Crane's impulses, as Luhnow did more than Click. Crane, sources said, is a demanding boss -- generally in a good way.

"He gave us resources," one longtime Astros front-office member said, "and he expected us to do the right things with them."

The undercurrent of Crane's desire to be involved, however, especially took root three years ago and only increased during Click's tenure. Now, he has advisors. He has a group of subordinates to execute his decisions. And the clock on a hire is ticking, with free agency already underway, trades being discussed and the reality that a new GM might mean even more confusion for a front-office staff that's never quite sure who to believe.

So he could hire someone to do the job. Or he could follow the path of another Texas billionaire and do it himself. For all of Arte Moreno's intrusiveness with the Angels, all of Jeffrey Loria's prying with the Miami Marlins, the last baseball owner to so assert himself was George Steinbrenner with the New York Yankees, the archetypal organizational puppeteer. Crane is not there yet, but he's come closer than most. Like Jones and Steinbrenner, his thirst for winning has taken him to places others won't go.

Regardless of who takes over, the Click affair has proven one thing unequivocally: When it comes to who's running the Houston Astros, neither titles nor contracts matter. It is one person and one person only: Jim Crane.

 

[henrygandorf 29190]

easy for a club to fall into disarray while planning parades and tonight show appearances the fuck outta here. 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

The response from Yordan should be no Jeffy I don’t want to fuck you. 

[Gourmand 7774]

12 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Billy's kid. Welcome back home.

but he's a second baseman!

[WBT 20564]

So the media thinks we've swung from evil tankers who treat people like numbers on spreadsheets under Luhnow to evil troglodytes with Crane, Bagwell, Reggie Jackson, and Dusty calling all the shots based on gut feel and eschewing all use of data.  Seems legit.

I will say that I want no part of Brad Ausmus in the front office.

Edited November 15, 2022 by WBT

[uoftorange 1386]

2 minutes ago, WBT said:

I will say that I want no part of Brad Ausmus in the front office.

Please God no.  He's failed everywhere he's been.  And he's one of the most overrated Astros of all time.  He's not a bad guy or anything, but he has zero skillsets that would make him a good GM.