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2023 Official Astros World Champs Offseason Thread

tx 3 putt

By tx 3 putt
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tx 3 putt
tx 3 putt

You wanted us. You got us.  You got your asses beat !   Let's do it again in 2023     

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

love these articles and comments from the mlb media about marring a world series or how the baseball world will be critical of the astros for this move. get. the. fuck. out. with. that. nonsense.

MaybeACoordinator
MaybeACoordinator

Going through old pics because of the death of my grandmother / mom and came across this -- 1996, my son's first Astros game.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19253

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12 minutes ago, uoftorange said:

True, I do think he mailed that analysis in though.  There were only two places that the Astros could really upgrade and they did one of them with a big splash.  

I'd say it's a B, but C+ is fine given the criteria he is using.  He used the GM thing as a negative I believe to get to that grade, and I view it as a significant positive, so that's probably the gap.  To get an A they would have had to swing Sean Murphy also or the like as well as maybe another move for a more dynamic utility guy.  

I personally don't view the Astros offseason as just doing what has failed for other teams.  We are clearly built for sustainable runs, and don't have to go balls to the wall every off season.  Still, I agree that Schoenfeld has his own POV and I have mine.  Both are opinions.  I respect his while disagreeing on the surface

I’ve been way more down on this off-season than most. It feels really lazy and like an opportunity to really set things up on dynasty mode/all time great roster was wasted in a really lazy way. 
I do love the Brown hire though. Absolutely positively love everything he’s saying. If we pull off another 3 or 4 extensions I will eat crow completely and totally and be the happiest person on this site ever.  
 

Personally, I’d have signed Contreras and Hanniger (+33M) let Brantley walk -12; fired Maton into the face of the sun -3.5, and still had 8M left over. 

I’d probably offer that to Bregman in a 5/150 extension. Since he’s on the books right now at 20 and actually making 30M that would take us right up to the line. I’d also offer Altuve 3 years 70M. That’s probably an over pay but it’s his current number so it would be payroll neutral and it would keep him here until he’s 38 and the end of his career. That would be a loyalty thing for the early career and an object lesson to the kids that if you devote yourself to us like Altuve and Bregman we will take care of you. 

That would have been an A+ off-season and would have extended our window until 2028 without even going over budget. 
You would have your everyday lineup set until 2025 you’d need replacement for Abreu and Hanniger and Tucker. 
you’d have your starting rotation and bullpen set until 2025 as well. 
I’d also seriously consider trading Tucker at the all star break if I thought Leon or Meyers had anything going for them and if I could get a Juan Soto type package for 3 post seasons of Tucker. With Contreras and Hanniger in the lineup you’d be able to lose Tuckers bat and still be better than last years team offensively, while potentially resetting the farm system for 2025-2028. But, more likely than not hold onto Tucker and watch us make a run at the all time wins record. 
 

I say all this recognizing the Astros are in really good shape to continue to compete for the title, but that 22M unspent to go with the 40M I spent last year has me being driven crazy. It seems disrespectful not to spend to the line even if it’s just locking in current talent to extensions when your team is this good. This is a good baseball market, the fanbase lobes this team and it seems like profit taking is being maximized over chasing a historically great roster or locking up our really talented kids through the end of the decade. Of Brown fixes that man… 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19253

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24 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

Front Office Grades should be based on putting the team in a position to compete for the title. Just because most of that work happened in prior years shouldn’t impact the grade. The Astros improved at 1B and are still the favorite to win the AL.

Grade: A

Left hole at catcher and have serious risk at the Brantley position.  Definite favorite to win it all. Did a little work to make the future better with Javier extension. Maybe saw the first off-season where net talent into the organization was greater than net talent out?  Brown seems awesome in at least taking a good game. 

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hornmpa96

hornmpa96 2632

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1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Left hole at catcher and have serious risk at the Brantley position.  Definite favorite to win it all. Did a little work to make the future better with Javier extension. Maybe saw the first off-season where net talent into the organization was greater than net talent out?  Brown seems awesome in at least taking a good game. 

With respect to catcher, somebody has to bat at the 8/9 spot in the order. Agree that bringing Brantley was a risk - however, it’s a one year deal and I’m hopeful that the team knows more about his ability to come back and produce.

Really love the Javier extension and hiring of Brown.

 I’m in awe of this roster. The team has lost Cole, Verlander, Grienke, Springer and the prospects traded to get those pitchers and is still the odds-on favorite to win it all.

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11160

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1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Left hole at catcher and have serious risk at the Brantley position.  Definite favorite to win it all. Did a little work to make the future better with Javier extension. Maybe saw the first off-season where net talent into the organization was greater than net talent out?  Brown seems awesome in at least taking a good game. 

Brantley is going to be the DH on opening day, I don't think that's a problem. Yordan, Chas and Tucker in the OF is plenty good enough.  If that doesn't work out, they will make a move before the trade deadline. 

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 77940

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18 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Brantley is going to be the DH on opening day, I don't think that's a problem. Yordan, Chas and Tucker in the OF is plenty good enough.  If that doesn't work out, they will make a move before the trade deadline. 


the Astros will have maximum flexibility at the trade deadline, if needed 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19253

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49 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

With respect to catcher, somebody has to bat at the 8/9 spot in the order. Agree that bringing Brantley was a risk - however, it’s a one year deal and I’m hopeful that the team knows more about his ability to come back and produce.

Really love the Javier extension and hiring of Brown.

 I’m in awe of this roster. The team has lost Cole, Verlander, Grienke, Springer and the prospects traded to get those pitchers and is still the odds-on favorite to win it all.

Good use of the word odds on favorite. Have been down a rabbit hole with some where they claimed you had to have a 50.1% chance to win it all to be “odds on favorite”. You nailed the usage. Nice to see- as I assume you are a degenerate gambler. 

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The Dog

The Dog 44187

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9 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

David Schoenfeld on the Astros off-season. I think he’s currently ESPN’s best baseball writer. Certainly always imminently fair and respectful to the Astros. 
 

Additions: 1B Jose Abreu (re-signed OF Michael Brantley and RHP Rafael Montero)

Departures: RHP Justin Verlander, 1B Yuli Gurriel, UT Aledmys Diaz, 1B Trey Mancini

The biggest mistake most World Series champions make is to simply bring everyone back and expect the same results. That's mostly what the Astros did in an offseason spent without a general manager after owner Jim Crane parted ways with James Click in early November and didn't hire Dana Brown until late January. The Astros made an upgrade at first base with Abreu, who had an interesting season with the White Sox: less power than ever (15 home runs) but a higher average with fewer strikeouts. I'm skeptical about how the three-year deal plays out at Abreu's age, but it should work for 2023. They still have enviable rotation and bullpen depth, but you don't just replace a Cy Young winner who went 18-4 with a 1.75 ERA. The lineup is now also counting on four players in their 30s in Abreu (36), Brantley (36), Martin Maldonado (36) and Jose Altuve (33). Signing Cristian Javier to a five-year extension that runs through 2027 helps boost the overall offseason grade.

Grade: C+

 

Let's take inventory of this team's starters:

LF - signed through 2028

CF - team control through 2026

RF - team control through 2025

3B - signed through 2024

SS - LOL

2B - signed through 2024

1B - Upgraded

C - could have upgraded, Only wish we had re-signed Vasquez but he didn't want to share starts.

Starting Pitching - All signed or under team control through 2025

Bullpen - all signed/team control through at least this year.

Other than catcher and maybe overpaying for an over the hill starter, what the hell were we supposed to do?

Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

We just didn't give the barking carnival stuff to talk about. So we get a bad grade and make another run at a title.

Baseball writers are idiots. They will never learn.

 

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11160

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2 hours ago, The Dog said:

 

 

C - could have upgraded, Only wish we had re-signed Vasquez but he didn't want to share starts.

 

That's the one that gets me. Why the hell didn't Crane keep Vasquez and make him the starter for 3 years 30m? He might have taken a discount to stay in Houston instead of worthless Milwaukee. Sitting Maldonado on the bench this year is only 4 million down the crapper. He might not even make it through the whole season. I hope they trade for our future catcher this year, because that's the one glaring weakness. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19253

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7 hours ago, The Dog said:

 

Let's take inventory of this team's starters:

LF - signed through 2028

CF - team control through 2026

RF - team control through 2025

3B - signed through 2024

SS - LOL

2B - signed through 2024

1B - Upgraded

C - could have upgraded, Only wish we had re-signed Vasquez but he didn't want to share starts.

Starting Pitching - All signed or under team control through 2025

Bullpen - all signed/team control through at least this year.

Other than catcher and maybe overpaying for an over the hill starter, what the hell were we supposed to do?

Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

We just didn't give the barking carnival stuff to talk about. So we get a bad grade and make another run at a title.

Baseball writers are idiots. They will never learn.

 

Rotation probably got worse. 
Catcher is considered by many to be the worst situation in baseball. DH is shaky. We only filled 2.5 out of 5 holes. That’s a fair grade if you are grading on the curve for what got done and what got punted. 
the context, of course, as you point out, is this team is ok an incredibly healthy and enviable roster situation for a good bit. 

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Hank Chinaski

Hank Chinaski 6324

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2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Catcher is considered by many to be the worst situation in baseball. DH is shaky. 

It depends entirely on how you view the value of Maldy’s non-offensive play - his defense, how he handles pitchers, calls pitches, etc. While I believe he is good at these things, I have no idea how to quantify it and thus no idea how valuable it really is.

But hell, Dusty seems to think there’s something there, and we made no effort to replace him. And people think Yadier Molina and his career 97 wRC+ is a goddamn HOFer. So maybe there’s something to it. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19253

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18 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

It depends entirely on how you view the value of Maldy’s non-offensive play - his defense, how he handles pitchers, calls pitches, etc. While I believe he is good at these things, I have no idea how to quantify it and thus no idea how valuable it really is.

But hell, Dusty seems to think there’s something there, and we made no effort to replace him. And people think Yadier Molina and his career 97 wRC+ is a goddamn HOFer. So maybe there’s something to it. 

I mean- we had second place offers to Contreras and Vasquez and were in some talks with KC about Perez so it’s not like we aren’t interested. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29199

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4 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Abreu knows he’s replacing a GLOVE at 1st, he’s putting in work !

 

i think people are underestimating abreu's potential with us.  yuli was a black hole offensively for basically the whole season.  abreu started off horrendously slow and ended up hitting .304 (mashed in june/july/august).  that cws lineup was held together by duct tape and jose abreu.

he already seems to be fitting in great, although i feel like we say this about every new addition.  it's almost like we have a great clubhouse, but who knows.  there's a dodger fan on twitter that told me it's "toxic".

in houston he gets to be one of many and will have rbi situations in every direction.  i'm expecting big things.  and also i don't give a shit how old he is.  he's 6 months older than goldschmidt and those cubans seem to age a little differently.  though he might be 45 years old, who knows.

i don't know what they're going to do about the lineup order, though i'm sure we're quibble over it here for the next 6-35 weeks.  hard not to hit brantley 2, because he just moves the order with singles, especially now with a reduced shift.  i know he has little power left, but this lineup is all about not making outs and getting to yordan/bregs/tuck to wreck shit, and brantley helps with that.

does pena ride his playoff momentum and hit 2nd?  if not, then 7th?  9th?  i hate machete hitting 9th.  i only mentioned it about 600x last season.

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 77940

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8 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i think people are underestimating abreu's potential with us.  yuli was a black hole offensively for basically the whole season.  abreu started off horrendously slow and ended up hitting .304 (mashed in june/july/august).  that cws lineup was held together by duct tape and jose abreu.

he already seems to be fitting in great, although i feel like we say this about every new addition.  it's almost like we have a great clubhouse, but who knows.  there's a dodger fan on twitter that told me it's "toxic".

in houston he gets to be one of many and will have rbi situations in every direction.  i'm expecting big things.  and also i don't give a shit how old he is.  he's 6 months older than goldschmidt and those cubans seem to age a little differently.  though he might be 45 years old, who knows.

i don't know what they're going to do about the lineup order, though i'm sure we're quibble over it here for the next 6-35 weeks.  hard not to hit brantley 2, because he just moves the order with singles, especially now with a reduced shift.  i know he has little power left, but this lineup is all about not making outs and getting to yordan/bregs/tuck to wreck shit, and brantley helps with that.

does pena ride his playoff momentum and hit 2nd?  if not, then 7th?  9th?  i hate machete hitting 9th.  i only mentioned it about 600x last season.


.304 from your #6 hitter ….

Larry David Hbo GIF by Curb Your Enthusiasm

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19253

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32 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

8FB3DD6D-7234-493A-92DC-32816EB2D490.jpeg

Like a boss. He won't be the ROY this year b/c that's Hunter Brown (who will pull off the unprecedented ROY, CY Young and MVP triple crown when he goes 25-2 with an era of 1.42), but he's going to come up this year and pitch well.  I'm still buying all the Whitley stock from the penny exchange.  

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19253

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18 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i think people are underestimating abreu's potential with us.  yuli was a black hole offensively for basically the whole season.  abreu started off horrendously slow and ended up hitting .304 (mashed in june/july/august).  that cws lineup was held together by duct tape and jose abreu.

he already seems to be fitting in great, although i feel like we say this about every new addition.  it's almost like we have a great clubhouse, but who knows.  there's a dodger fan on twitter that told me it's "toxic".

in houston he gets to be one of many and will have rbi situations in every direction.  i'm expecting big things.  and also i don't give a shit how old he is.  he's 6 months older than goldschmidt and those cubans seem to age a little differently.  though he might be 45 years old, who knows.

i don't know what they're going to do about the lineup order, though i'm sure we're quibble over it here for the next 6-35 weeks.  hard not to hit brantley 2, because he just moves the order with singles, especially now with a reduced shift.  i know he has little power left, but this lineup is all about not making outs and getting to yordan/bregs/tuck to wreck shit, and brantley helps with that.

does pena ride his playoff momentum and hit 2nd?  if not, then 7th?  9th?  i hate machete hitting 9th.  i only mentioned it about 600x last season.

First things first- lineup order doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Perfectly optimized lineup vs random lineup generator is probably a win or two, tops, over the course of a year.  If you tried to make the lineup as bad as possible (you know- hitting Dubon 2nd whenever he plays) you probably are only talking about a couple games, maybe 3-5 tops, and whatever we finish with won't be either optimal or the worst case scenario.


Optimal:  Altuve, Yordan (best hitter hits 2nd in all modern saber stuff) Abreu, Tucker, Bregman, Brantley, Pena, Chas, Maldonado.  Against LHP you probably need to swithc Chas and Brantley if that's the 9 guys on the field. 

What I think we do:  Altuve, Pena, Yordan, Bregman, Tucker, Abreu, Brantley, Chas, Maldonado. 

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 77940

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4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Like a boss. He won't be the ROY this year b/c that's Hunter Brown (who will pull off the unprecedented ROY, CY Young and MVP triple crown when he goes 25-2 with an era of 1.42), but he's going to come up this year and pitch well.  I'm still buying all the Whitley stock from the penny exchange.  


hopefully he can make some noise this year 

maybe even be prime trade bait ?

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19253

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Just now, tx 3 putt said:


hopefully he can make some noise this year 

maybe even be prime trade bait ?

Nah, he's going to be so good that it frees you up to trade Urquidy and/or Garcia.  But that would likely be next offseason.  Bullpen duty for Forest starting in August or September, just like Brown did last year. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29199

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22 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

First things first- lineup order doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Perfectly optimized lineup vs random lineup generator is probably a win or two, tops, over the course of a year.  If you tried to make the lineup as bad as possible (you know- hitting Dubon 2nd whenever he plays) you probably are only talking about a couple games, maybe 3-5 tops, and whatever we finish with won't be either optimal or the worst case scenario.


Optimal:  Altuve, Yordan (best hitter hits 2nd in all modern saber stuff) Abreu, Tucker, Bregman, Brantley, Pena, Chas, Maldonado.  Against LHP you probably need to swithc Chas and Brantley if that's the 9 guys on the field. 

What I think we do:  Altuve, Pena, Yordan, Bregman, Tucker, Abreu, Brantley, Chas, Maldonado. 

understood and agreed about the importance of lineup construction, i was really just talking about the thread discussion of the topic, which is inevitable.

i worry that brantley is less effective at the bottom of the order.  he needs to be there to stretch the lineup and keep the train moving, that's it.

plus you know the idea of r-l-r-l-r-l-r is giving dusty a chub (tuve-mike-bregs-yordan-abreu-tucker-pena).

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texashorne

texashorne 1178

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2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

What I think we do:  Altuve, Pena, Yordan, Bregman, Tucker, Abreu, Brantley, Chas, Maldonado. 

This will be done on opening day, then if we're lucky once a month until the playoffs start.. the little rage emoji in the bottom right will be the most used as we cruise to another 100 plus win season. 

Dusty won a WS series last year. His lineup fuckery is only going to increase

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