2023 Official Astros World Champs Offseason Thread

[tx 3 putt 78759]

Hard pass on trading any of our starters 

[Chuckie Finster 23099]

My conclusion is that this offseason is a fucking terrible time to need to improve your club.  The trades are batshit, the contracts have been insane.

Let's thank the lord we got Abreu early in the cycle and then resign Vazquez and Brantley and call it a day.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Chuckie Finster

[Starfleet Command 441]

Why even consider making that kind of trade to begin with when you're $30M+ under the CBT?  Didn't they fire the GM because he wasn't spending enough money and landing splash free agents? lol

[henrygandorf 29229]

we must be a weird team to negotiate with right now.  first, we have no gm.  awkward.

second, it must be hard to sell us on ways to improve our team coming off a 106 wins + world series title and returning virtually everybody.  you end up sounding like some sort of gaslighting fantasy baseball asshole.  "come on dude, you need this guy, your hitting sucks."

we've never really been the "make a move just to make a move" type of team, so hopefully that continues.  a difference-making outfielder should cost garcia or urquidy and a couple throw-ins.  i'm not saying i'd do it, but that's what it should cost.

if someone calls about hunter brown, it should be the padres dangling tatis or at least the o's dangling mullins.

[Wulaw Horn 19599]

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

we must be a weird team to negotiate with right now.  first, we have no gm.  awkward.

second, it must be hard to sell us on ways to improve our team coming off a 106 wins + world series title and returning virtually everybody.  you end up sounding like some sort of gaslighting fantasy baseball asshole.  "come on dude, you need this guy, your hitting sucks."

we've never really been the "make a move just to make a move" type of team, so hopefully that continues.  a difference-making outfielder should cost garcia or urquidy and a couple throw-ins.  i'm not saying i'd do it, but that's what it should cost.

if someone calls about hunter brown, it should be the padres dangling tatis or at least the o's dangling mullins.

Came here to offer you condolences on your man crush Bassitt getting signed. No- not by the Mets even!

3/63. That seems like a pretty good deal. Guy seems to be injury free and probably 10 or 20% above average in ERA+ terms over the course of that contract. 
If that’s all he was going to get I’d have been ok with signing him and trading Garcia ++ to AZ for Varsho and then signing Brantley. 
Varsho could be catcher #2 and play CF against RHP when you want Chas to sit. Then you could play him at catcher every day in the playoffs, play Chas in CF and Brantley (rather Conforto but probably not room for him with an extra 21 going to Bassitt) at DH. 
Love Abreu. Really seeing a couple missed opportunities here in Contreras and now Bassitt. Most of these deals have been rough but this one seems doable and likely to be decent value. Unless his medicals are fucked. 

[Guadaloopy 11139]

It is unforgiveable hubris to seriously discuss trading ANY of our starting pitchers.  It's not like Chas is a black hole, and I still have hope for a truly healthy Meyer.  Figure out the backup C situation and go into this year with what we've got.

[Wulaw Horn 19599]

Looks like Vasquez is close to getting some per insider on another site. 
If he gets the larger share of starting duties I’m happy-ish I suppose. 

[Chuckie Finster 23099]

8 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Looks like Vasquez is close to getting some per insider on another site. 

Congrats on the sex Christian, but not sure what that has to do with our free agent plans.

[texashorne 1195]

that is a horrible, awful proposal for Varsho. Out of all the CF's in baseball, the list is very damn limited to whom I would trade Javier for. 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19599]

42 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Congrats on the sex Christian, but not sure what that has to do with our free agent plans.

Done. He is close to getting done not some. But that’s funny. 

[henrygandorf 29229]

54 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Looks like Vasquez is close to getting some per insider

we're all just a witty line and a couple of drinks away.

[Wulaw Horn 19599]

6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

we're all just a witty line and a couple of drinks away.

Ha. I don’t even need witty lines bc I’m married. 

[Mitch Hedberg 2117]

 

[UTPhil2006 3930]

Korey Lee time 

[billfromlaketravis 11869]

I guess they need to figure out what they have in Lee, but I would have resigned Vazquez. 

[Scraps 13812]

Vazquez wants to start. That isn't happening here next year regardless of yalls pipe dreams

[HtownHorn 15231]

The love affair this organization has with finished players such as Maldonado, Brantley, and maybe Gurriel is comical.

Edited December 13, 2022 by HtownHorn

[texashorne 1195]

3 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

The love affair this organization has with finished players such as Maldonado, Brantley, and maybe Gurriel is comical.

The price tag may have been way too high for Vasquez. And the latter 2 are still FAs. 

[Pimphand 6380]

The Maldonado one takes the cake he should be the backup.  We should have gone after Contreras and when we missed that Vazquez should have been the priority.  Now we're getting stupid...

1 minute ago, texashorne said:

The price tag may have been way too high for Vasquez. And the latter 2 are still FAs. 

three-year, $30 million

[uoftorange 1391]

4 minutes ago, texashorne said:

The price tag may have been way too high for Vasquez. And the latter 2 are still FAs. 

It wasn't:   3/30 is chump change for him

[uoftorange 1391]

I don't understand at all what the A's were doing with Sean Murphy.  They basically traded him for a guy with no control (on his pitches) and two mid level prospects.  Just weird 

[Wulaw Horn 19599]

46 minutes ago, uoftorange said:

I don't understand at all what the A's were doing with Sean Murphy.  They basically traded him for a guy with no control (on his pitches) and two mid level prospects.  Just weird 

The A’s keep their own council on prospects and are looking for their own thing. Different thought process there. 

[Starfleet Command 441]

Even limp dick James Click could have closed the Vazquez deal. 

[texashorne 1195]

I'm going to continue to be optimistic even though the Vasquez miss is frustrating. Maybe there's confidence in our farm catchers. 

[tx 3 putt 78759]

2 hours ago, Scraps said:

Vazquez wants to start. That isn't happening here next year regardless of yalls pipe dreams

And he wanted October / November off 

[TexArcher 39077]

6 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Hard pass on trading any of our starters 

 

5 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

It is unforgiveable hubris to seriously discuss trading ANY of our starting pitchers.  It's not like Chas is a black hole, and I still have hope for a truly healthy Meyer.  Figure out the backup C situation and go into this year with what we've got.

 

This!  We just won a World Series with pitching and we've already lost one starter.  We've also already upgraded the lineup.  I wouldn't move another starter because we don't have a need great enough to justify it.  

We're the favorite in 2023 if we don't make another move.  In my opinion, we should be very judicious about what else we do this offseason, keeping in mind that trading chips may be needed at the deadline to fix unexpected problems due to injury or whatever.

[rvm96 1643]

6 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

It is unforgiveable hubris to seriously discuss trading ANY of our starting pitchers.  It's not like Chas is a black hole, and I still have hope for a truly healthy Meyer.  Figure out the backup C situation and go into this year with what we've got.

It's not like one of them almost got dealt at the trade deadline last season.

[Murfdogg21 4577]

3 hours ago, texashorne said:

I'm going to continue to be optimistic even though the Vasquez miss is frustrating. Maybe there's confidence in our farm catchers. 

Korey Lee - 2023 WS MVP?

[tx 3 putt 78759]

 

keep them coming !

Edited December 13, 2022 by tx 3 putt

[tx 3 putt 78759]

4 hours ago, uoftorange said:

I don't understand at all what the A's were doing with Sean Murphy.  They basically traded him for a guy with no control (on his pitches) and two mid level prospects.  Just weird 

 

joke of a franchise. 

 

[tx 3 putt 78759]

good stuff 

 

[UTHornFan014 755]

We really couldn't beat 3 years-30mil for Vazquez? That frustrates me

[Mstrat 16]

We really couldn't beat 3 years-30mil for Vazquez? That frustrates me

I think it means we couldn’t promise the playing time behind the plate.

[formermav43 4631]

3/30 is an overpay according to fangraphs projections both in AAV and years (2/16). Of course, the free agent market has gone insane in just the few weeks since that was published. But it seems to me that the Astros are not going to budge from what they think a player should be worth and are content to let others overpay. It’s the sort of thinking that has built the organization, and it’s proved to be wise in the past for competing over a long period of time.

The potential danger right now is if EVERYONE is behaving irrationally to the point there are no players left, do you have to play the same game to compete? But they’re in a strong enough position as is they can afford to sit back and wait and see what happens and adjust if needed (or not when/if the competition is saddled with aging, expensive players in a few years).

[tx 3 putt 78759]

1 hour ago, UTHornFan014 said:

We really couldn't beat 3 years-30mil for Vazquez? That frustrates me

 

they want to let the young catchers show what they have. 

[Pimphand 6380]

4 hours ago, Mstrat said:

I think it means we couldn’t promise the playing time behind the plate.

Which is the dumbest shit of all time

[Rockethorn1978 6206]

Im fine staying where we are for now. We can make moves at the deadline if we need too.

[Murfdogg21 4577]

15 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

Figure out the backup C situation and go into this year with what we've got.

We have a good backup catcher. Need to find a starter. 

[Snake Diggity 4720]

7 hours ago, formermav43 said:

3/30 is an overpay according to fangraphs projections both in AAV and years (2/16). Of course, the free agent market has gone insane in just the few weeks since that was published. But it seems to me that the Astros are not going to budge from what they think a player should be worth and are content to let others overpay. It’s the sort of thinking that has built the organization, and it’s proved to be wise in the past for competing over a long period of time.

The potential danger right now is if EVERYONE is behaving irrationally to the point there are no players left, do you have to play the same game to compete? But they’re in a strong enough position as is they can afford to sit back and wait and see what happens and adjust if needed (or not when/if the competition is saddled with aging, expensive players in a few years).

In a vacuum the logical move would be to sell off players for cash in this overvalued environment and save it for when prices come back down, which could take years.  But the Astros can’t do that because the rules prevent it (and because they are firmly in a contending window).  So the next best thing is to focus on the trade market (particularly on acquiring unproven yet unheralded young players who you can quickly enhance), since all players’ values are appreciating together.  In a world where Chris Bassitt is getting $60M+, Luis García or Jose Urquidy should carry a shit ton of value.  My move would be to try to flip one of those guys for an underrated catcher or OF.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Snake Diggity

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

16 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

My move would be to try to flip one of those guys for an underrated catcher or OF.

If the plan was to avoid the FA market and trade a SP for bats, wouldn't the smart move have been to pay JV (you aren't using the money anyway) and then trade from your SP depth for a guy like Varsho? Not spending money and trading away a SP after losing JV seems like the least optimal move. 

[TonyTexas 10786]

23 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

, Luis García or Jose Urquidy should carry a shit ton of value.  My move would be to try to flip one of those guys for an underrated catcher or OF.

Thus the interest in Varsho. He would add  a ton of flexibility to the lineup and has 4 years of club control. He’ll cost a lot but is worth a lot. I wouldn’t give up Brown or Javier but definitely would include Garcia or Urquidy. 

[texashorne 1195]

I would not trade Urquidy or LFG. I think they provide more value than the disparity of talent between Chas and Varsho. They are reliable regular season arms that have a ton of playoff experience and success.  Plus, the 6 man rotation is gone..and it's a legit 6 man rotation with proven starters and not some bs with 1 or 2 AAAA guys. 

IMO wanting to trade Urquidy/LFG for somebody like Varso is like my 7 year old wanting the cheap plastic dump truck from wal mart when he has several good Tonka's already in his closet. 

I'm all for bringing in Varsho, but just for the right price and package and not guys responsible for hauling in the hardware. 

 

[TonyTexas 10786]

7 minutes ago, texashorne said:

I think they provide more value than the disparity of talent between Chas and Varsho.

I don’t think people realize that Varsho is just as much a catcher as an outfielder. What are our two biggest needs currently? C and outfielder. Viola! BOGO

Edited December 13, 2022 by TonyTexas

[Wulaw Horn 19599]

11 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I don’t think people realize that Varsho is just as much a catcher as an outfielder. What are our two biggest needs currently? C and outfielder. Viola! BOGO

Something like Urquidy, Paredes, Lee and a couple of our other top 10 prospects (they won’t be OF) would be doable to me. 
I would probably do Abreu as a substitute for Urquidy in that deal. 
I would probably trade then Garcia straight up for them. 
I might even take back Madison Baugardner in the deal (2/32 left) if it significantly lowered the prospect price (like Urquidy for Varsho and MadBum straight up). 
I would laugh at them if they insisted on Brown. I would be kind of Angry if they insisted on Javier. 

[texashorne 1195]

28 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I don’t think people realize that Varsho is just as much a catcher as an outfielder. What are our two biggest needs currently? C and outfielder. Viola! BOGO

True, but for the right package lets do it. 2022 Starting pitchers and BP are off the table if I'm GM. 

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I might even take back Madison Baugardner in the deal (2/32 left) if it significantly lowered the prospect price (like Urquidy for Varsho and MadBum straight up). 

This is the only deal I would be happy with. I wouldn't trade them Javier, Brown, or Abreu.  

[The Dog 44865]

9 hours ago, formermav43 said:

3/30 is an overpay according to fangraphs projections both in AAV and years (2/16). Of course, the free agent market has gone insane in just the few weeks since that was published. But it seems to me that the Astros are not going to budge from what they think a player should be worth and are content to let others overpay. It’s the sort of thinking that has built the organization, and it’s proved to be wise in the past for competing over a long period of time.

The potential danger right now is if EVERYONE is behaving irrationally to the point there are no players left, do you have to play the same game to compete? But they’re in a strong enough position as is they can afford to sit back and wait and see what happens and adjust if needed (or not when/if the competition is saddled with aging, expensive players in a few years).

This market is in response to what the Astros are - the defending champions with tons of cheap players under team control.

If you are a big market team and feel this is your time to compete then you have to spend big because the Astros aren't going anywhere any time soon. 

These idiots are going to be stuck with a crapload of albatross contracts what will handcuff their franchises for years (what the hell are the Rangers doing anyway?)

And it's not like we haven't done anything. We just signed Jose Abreu for $58.5 million and Rafael Monetro for $34.5 million. 

I think Crane and co. are being smart about this. 

[Ojo Rojo 2061]

If the season started tomorrow, who the fuck are our left fielder and backup catcher?  Yordan is your every day LF and Lee is our backup C?  I don't love either of those.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ojo Rojo

[Wulaw Horn 19599]

4 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

If the season started tomorrow, who the fuck are our left fielder and backup catcher?  Yordan is your every day LF and Lee is our backup C?  I don't love either of those.

Y Diaz or JJ M as DH with Yordan in left and Lee as backup catcher would be my bet if the season started today. That’s obviously very sub optimal. 

[The Dog 44865]

5 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Y Diaz or JJ M as DH with Yordan in left and Lee as backup catcher would be my bet if the season started today. That’s obviously very sub optimal. 

"sub optimal" in a vacuum.

let's say we roll with that.

Who wins the AL?