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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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18 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

The giant holes that seem to appear in the middle of the zone defense are created by design in route configurations by the offenses when we run zone and there isn't much you can do about it.

I don't believe that for second. Sorry man, you're doing the thing where you flex your football IQ brain while explaining away incompetence.

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TornACL
TornACL

1990 UH vibes for this upcoming Saturday night. There is nothing Texas fans love more than stomping on some in state program that's getting a little too big for their britches.

hornian
hornian

Gary Patterson better earn his salary this week. 

Wulaw Horn
Wulaw Horn

So, this is what a road victory looks like?  Huh. Doesn’t seem like it should be that hard. Glad it happened.  In the part of the season now where I don’t really care how it looks, just care if we win

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4815

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11 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I don't believe that for second. Sorry man, you're doing the thing where you flex your football IQ brain while explaining away incompetence.

Don't believe me, go watch the fucking film jackass. What I said is a fucking fact against KSU. I haven't paid attention to those route combos in other games but picked it up in this one. I never claimed to have a high football IQ, stopped playing before I made it to highschool. I have eyes though, go use yours. One thing is slightly true in what you said. We are incompetent when it comes to playing zone defense.

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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3 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Don't believe me, go watch the fucking film jackass. What I said is a fucking fact against KSU. I haven't paid attention to those route combos in other games but picked it up in this one. I never claimed to have a high football IQ, stopped playing before I made it to highschool. I have eyes though, go use yours. One thing is slightly true in what you said. We are incompetent when it comes to playing zone defense.

You mad? Seems like we agree that we are incompetent running zone as opposed to “there is nothing you can possibly do to prevent wide receivers from being wide open”.

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4815

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17 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I don't believe that for second. Sorry man, you're doing the thing where you flex your football IQ brain while explaining away incompetence.

Most call it a Flood, where you flood a zone defense with more receivers than defenders. It is typically done toward the sidelines. That wasn't the case against KSU. They were flooding the middle of the zone where we are weakest because our LBs suck in coverage.

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MirrOlure

MirrOlure 14769

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2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I don’t think our pass defense is fixable. I’m not an X’s and O’s guy, but whatever is going on that results in massive holes in our secondary with guys catching balls with no one even near them is endemic.

I fear the Frogs are going to throw at will all night long.

Seemed to me that Tech had Duggan on the run quite a bit, and it affected him most of the game that I watched.  I didn't see how TCU finally pulled away, and I know that Tech has a 1st Round quality pass rusher....but if we can get a repeat of the DL play we got against KSU, I think there's hope we can hold serve a few times.

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4815

Posted
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1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

You mad? Seems like we agree that we are incompetent running zone as opposed to “there is nothing you can possibly do to prevent wide receivers from being wide open”.

If we are in a zone defense and they "flood" a particular zone, yes, there is nothing you can do about it coverage wise. If the QB has time and a lane to throw, it should be a fairly easy read and completion.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19023

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44 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

The giant holes that seem to appear in the middle of the zone defense are created by design in route configurations by the offenses when we run zone and there isn't much you can do about it. Teams are running middle of thee field route combos, two men in one zone and there will always be one man open. Go rewatch the first half of the KSU game and you will see what they were doing. We didn't run much zone in the second half due to those route combos. It seems it is always on 3rd down. In the second half we rarely ran zone on 3rd down, that is why their conversions dropped considerably from previous opponents. I'm guessing every other opponent has done this to us and we just now made corrections.

 

2 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

If we are in a zone defense and they "flood" a particular zone, yes, there is nothing you can do about it coverage wise. If the QB has time and a lane to throw, it should be a fairly easy read and completion.

This is nonsense. They definitely ran some zone beaters but those plays can still be covered if your defense is well-coached and knows how to execute. It’s also not as simple as flooding a zone. There are plenty of different types of zone coverage calls that can counter a simple flood.
 

 Our problem is poor coaching/poor player recognition, not that certain play calls are just unstoppable in zone. 

31 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

Our defense is 90th in EPA on pad plays and our EPA MARGIN IS 79th on defense. This seems a lot more like what we’ve been watching most weeks than the FEI/SP+ rankings that have us around 25th. I believe the EPA numbers above are unadjusted, but it still seems like those are closer to how we’re playing.

 

Also interesting that our D is 8th in the country in not giving up firsts on 1st or 2nd Don, while TCU’s O is 6th in the country on early down EPA. I think we’ll force them into way more 3rd downs than they’re used to. Whether we can actually get stops is a different question. 

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4815

Posted
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8 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

This is nonsense. They definitely ran some zone beaters but those plays can still be covered if your defense is well-coached and knows how to execute. It’s also not as simple as flooding a zone. There are plenty of different types of zone coverage calls that can counter a simple flood.
 

 Our problem is poor coaching/poor player recognition, not that certain play calls are just unstoppable in zone. 

Let me rephrase so people understand what the fuck I'm saying even though you did hit on it. Yes that play is stoppable and we did eventually eliminate its success. We did that by changing calls and coverages. The defense we were running wasn't going to stop that plays success without an adjustment. One MLB cannot cover two people, it really is that simple. They were putting 2 people in the middle zone on a LB, he would cover one, the other would go the opposite direction. It was easy pitch and catch. Like I said, go watch the film and you will see what I'm talking about. Don't take my word for it. They didn't do it the whole game because we adjusted. It worked multiple times though.

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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17 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Let me rephrase so people understand what the fuck I'm saying even though you did hit on it. Yes that play is stoppable and we did eventually eliminate its success. We did that by changing calls and coverages. The defense we were running wasn't going to stop that plays success without an adjustment. One MLB cannot cover two people, it really is that simple. They were putting 2 people in the middle zone on a LB, he would cover one, the other would go the opposite direction. It was easy pitch and catch. Like I said, go watch the film and you will see what I'm talking about. Don't take my word for it. They didn't do it the whole game because we adjusted. It worked multiple times though.

I'll take your word for it that we adjusted to some specific play you're referring to...meanwhile, we continued to get gashed for 10-25 yard passes right up until the fumble recovery. 

I tend to think we have some talent deficiencies on at LB and DB (that Taaffe dude seeing the field is not good for us), but it doesn't explain away the massive holes in our defense. 

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4815

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8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I'll take your word for it that we adjusted to some specific play you're referring to...meanwhile, we continued to get gashed for 10-25 yard passes right up until the fumble recovery. 

I tend to think we have some talent deficiencies on at LB and DB (that Taaffe dude seeing the field is not good for us), but it doesn't explain away the massive holes in our defense. 

We should be sacking the QB, we had plenty of chances and continued to miss repeatedly until the end. The guys being wide open is almost always in zone defense, we just suck at it. 

Taaeffe isn't the glaring hole on defense people like to pretend he is. People call his name because he is a walk-on. He is playing because he is better than the people behind him(some highly ranked recruits) and honestly we have bigger issues than him with some of the backups. He has been pretty solid for the most part.

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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2 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

We should be sacking the QB, we had plenty of chances and continued to miss repeatedly until the end. The guys being wide open is almost always in zone defense, we just suck at it. 

Taaeffe isn't the glaring hole on defense people like to pretend he is. People call his name because he is a walk-on. He is playing because he is better than the people behind him(some highly ranked recruits) and honestly we have bigger issues than him with some of the backups. He has been pretty solid for the most part.

So yeah, our defensive coaching is atrocious?

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4815

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1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

So yeah, our defensive coaching is atrocious?

Not when it comes to sacking the QB, the players need to make plays, they have been in position just continuously fail to get the QB to the ground. I would say whoever teaches the zone concepts isn't getting it done. Man coverage hasn't been terrible and our top 2 corners have been way better than years past.

If you lead the country(or near the top) at QB pressures is that atrocious defensive coaching? It's definitely coaching that they can't execute a zone Defense, to me that certainly isn't on PK even though everyone wants him fired. The second half leads being lost has just as much to do with shitty second half offense as it does defense. We are in an offensive era of football, the defense is gonna suck a bunch, the offense shouldn't. Especially since the offense has so much talent.

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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11 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Not when it comes to sacking the QB, the players need to make plays, they have been in position just continuously fail to get the QB to the ground. I would say whoever teaches the zone concepts isn't getting it done. Man coverage hasn't been terrible and our top 2 corners have been way better than years past.

If you lead the country(or near the top) at QB pressures is that atrocious defensive coaching? It's definitely coaching that they can't execute a zone Defense, to me that certainly isn't on PK even though everyone wants him fired. The second half leads being lost has just as much to do with shitty second half offense as it does defense. We are in an offensive era of football, the defense is gonna suck a bunch, the offense shouldn't. Especially since the offense has so much talent.

Seems like we have coaching deficiencies on both side of the ball.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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20 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Not when it comes to sacking the QB, the players need to make plays, they have been in position just continuously fail to get the QB to the ground. I would say whoever teaches the zone concepts isn't getting it done. Man coverage hasn't been terrible and our top 2 corners have been way better than years past.

If you lead the country(or near the top) at QB pressures is that atrocious defensive coaching? It's definitely coaching that they can't execute a zone Defense, to me that certainly isn't on PK even though everyone wants him fired. The second half leads being lost has just as much to do with shitty second half offense as it does defense. We are in an offensive era of football, the defense is gonna suck a bunch, the offense shouldn't. Especially since the offense has so much talent.

Counterpoint:

OSU - 72% passing completion vs man coverage at 21 yds per compl,  41.9% vs zone at 10.9 yards per

ISU - 78% vs man at 17.2 yds per compl,  64.7% vs zone at 10.8 yards per compl

WVU - 65% vs man at 10.9 yds per compl,  50% vs zone at 9.2 yards per compl

Tech - 77% vs man at 7.6 yds per compl,  45.8% vs zone at 13.5 yards per compl

I didn't include OU because there was all of like 5 OU passes in that game. And Connelly hasn't released KSU yet. Point is, our man defense is terrible and our opponents have a much higher success rate against it than against our zone. Our zone, statistically at least, is fairly good. But, it also has very painful lapses, particularly on third down. 

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mwaadeeb

mwaadeeb 1210

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5 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

 

 

Not worried about Johnston because we recruited him so hard. It's all the guys we didn't recruit that give us their best game, that circle Texas on the schedule, that have huge chips on their shoulders. He probably doesn't even know who he's playing this week.  1 catch / 6 yards.

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Fico

Fico 1778

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2 hours ago, Longhornlove said:

If we are in a zone defense and they "flood" a particular zone, yes, there is nothing you can do about it coverage wise. If the QB has time and a lane to throw, it should be a fairly easy read and completion.

Lol... that's not how any of this works/gif

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Hookem2147

Hookem2147 21217

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25 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Counterpoint:

OSU - 72% passing completion vs man coverage at 21 yds per compl,  41.9% vs zone at 10.9 yards per

ISU - 78% vs man at 17.2 yds per compl,  64.7% vs zone at 10.8 yards per compl

WVU - 65% vs man at 10.9 yds per compl,  50% vs zone at 9.2 yards per compl

Tech - 77% vs man at 7.6 yds per compl,  45.8% vs zone at 13.5 yards per compl

I didn't include OU because there was all of like 5 OU passes in that game. And Connelly hasn't released KSU yet. Point is, our man defense is terrible and our opponents have a much higher success rate against it than against our zone. Our zone, statistically at least, is fairly good. But, it also has very painful lapses, particularly on third down. 

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Here is KSU. 

 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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9 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Damn, 81% completion rate. 65% success rate and 21% explosive rate vs zone

27% success vs Man. 

Yeah, that is alarming. I thought the KSU game might have played out differently than other games, but to see such a reversal in trend as to man vs zone coverage is still surprising. 

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kwood4408

kwood4408 762

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This is just flat out wrong. We generally get killed when we play man. We’ve been better in zone than man over the course of the year. KSU was one of the few exceptions.
 

Looked like we were getting killed while in some sort of man/zone combo where the corners were in man on the outside with the safeties/LB playing zone. Whatever it was it didn’t work.
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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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7 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

We generally get killed when we play man. 

Question re: this...

Why?

It seems like you get killed in man for either/or:

  • you can't get any pressure on the QB and eventually someone gets open
  • you don't have the athletes to cover folks in space
  • your athletes aren't well coached in the fundamentals of coverage and get beat

 

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Texasrocks

Texasrocks 2134

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8 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Anyone else want to come kick me in the nuts? At least I paid enough attention too the KSU replay to get that one right. So we overall suck at zone and man it appears. Awesome.

kick in nuts GIF

 

I don't mind kicking you in the nuts. Give me a call at 214-799-2827 to let me know when and where.

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Codaxx

Codaxx 5738

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19 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, that is alarming. I thought the KSU game might have played out differently than other games, but to see such a reversal in trend as to man vs zone coverage is still surprising. 

Really odd coming off a bye week. You would think they would be more organized in the back end. 

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Fico

Fico 1778

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41 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Question re: this...

Why?

It seems like you get killed in man for either/or:

  • you can't get any pressure on the QB and eventually someone gets open
  • you don't have the athletes to cover folks in space
  • your athletes aren't well coached in the fundamentals of coverage and get beat

 

Concepts are easy to beat in a vacuum. Nobody just plays man/zone... you can't. You will get roasted by offenses these days. Man beaters, pick plays, bunch formation, motion, ect... all create issues for man coverage. So unless your secondary consist for high caliber future NFL players across the board, amplified with an adequate pass rush, you will get toasted.

You have to be able to play both. For the  LonghornLove guys, when you play zone you shouldn't be covering grass. Zone defense is man to man in an area of the field with simple rules to address flood, smash, 3/4 verticals, etc... Additionally, playing zone helps in the run game as eyes are on the ball. It is difficult to execute at a high-level and in the middle of the field we either lack the athleticism (safety) or the instincts LB to execute efficiently in that arena.

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VaLonghorn99

VaLonghorn99 341

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We will beat TCU, not just to destroy their dreams but that of the Big 12 conference for zebra-ing our season. We could be unbeaten too. Oh well, look what happened to OSU after the zebras' 14-0 record-breaking performance in our game. CFP still kept us ranked, maybe they saw through the BS. 

 

You look over there at karma right there. It's a byotch that scares you to death. 

 

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Darth Tron

Darth Tron 1122

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Zone, man, who gives a fuck.  We can't cover either and our dumbass defenders are gonna fuck it up.

Our only hope is Quinn remembers how to play QB, Worthy finds the ball in the air, and Bijan fucks Sonny Dykes in the ass at midfield in front of 100k screaming fans.

We can win, but we ain't stoppin 'em.

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UTEE97

UTEE97 3521

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6 hours ago, BlakeOfTheYear said:

Im looking for 2 tickets for the game Saturday if anyone is selling any. 214-799-2827. 

Hello Sir, this is John from Mumbai. You have been pre-approved for a personal loan. Just need your social security and bank account info to deposit the money as early as today.

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