[OFFICIAL DOOM THREAD]Today Democracy Dies

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

this is what we're up against

 

[wildcat09 29260]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

As I said above, the veto could be subject to override, no?

A veto override requires 2/3rds approval in both the House and Senate.

[yoladu 4067]

5 hours ago, Voldemort86 said:

Dems snake bit it seems. Don’t forget cunningham in North Carolina. Guy would’ve crushed it had he kept his pants on and we would be favored to keep the senate today.

I have most likely senate outcome as 50-50 with dems losing Georgia in run off, but next closest scenario is 51-49 gop. That NC seat would’ve really come in handy today.

since when did keeping your pants on matter?

[jimmyjazz 45560]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

A veto override requires 2/3rds approval in both the House and Senate.

Yeah, that's it, thanks.  Even Manchin and Sinema can't deliver 2/3.  Fuckers.

[tx 3 putt 76404]

❤️👍🏽👍🏽

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

13 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

In hindsight, I'm probably being overly critical of my chihuahua.

I am the unlucky owner of a chihuahua/rat terrier mix that has two different vets and even the place we adopted it from suggest behavioral euthanasia as a possibility.

Not sure one can be overly critical. 

[MeerkatBong 115]

I'll try to give a serious answer. Here is what I think is happening:

 

• People en masse are "stupid" insomuch as large cohorts of people are defined by the greatest common factors (large, big rocks which are "general" or "broad brush") versus a least common denominator which would be more specifically defined and create too much noise. 
• Historically these groups (most commonly two, D's and R's) trade blows via elections and majority favor every 2 years, with the challenger being rewarded for being the critic and the unprovable "I would have done X and then Y would be better (or Z wouldn't have happened, which is bad).
• R's doing well this election cycle, while sad for a lot of people, a) shouldn't really be surprising and b) should give you hope as that means that historically speaking, D's will be better set up for the '24 election
• People on this website specifically suffer from a bias of thinking that our general way of thinking is so absolutely right and naturally, ethically and morally superior that people are evil/stupid/crooks if they don't believe the same. I think this creates expectations, and even entitlements, that are increasingly irreparable at a macro level.

 

I don't think the guy was being literal when he said "today democracy dies" and is just trying to make a point using hyperbole, but I think even that is recency bias.

People have been saying this during times of national crisis (e.g. Great Depression, McCarthyism, Civil Rights era/transformation, cold war crisis, etc.) the last 100 years, I would guess, and I think it's just our turn to experience it and pretend it's unique. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by MeerkatBong

[jimmyjazz 45560]

5 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I am the unlucky owner of a chihuahua/rat terrier mix that has two different vets and even the place we adopted it from suggest behavioral euthanasia as a possibility.

Not sure one can be overly critical. 

It's an interesting "breed".  This dog is absolutely insane, and was that way from the day we brought her home as a puppy.  She went into complete "protection" mode (LOL) before she even got into the house, going berserker on the nice old lady across the street.

It's only been downhill from there.  Cute dog, though.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

6 minutes ago, MeerkatBong said:

I'll try to give a serious answer. Here is what I think is happening:

 

• People en masse are "stupid" insomuch as large cohorts of people are defined by the greatest common factors (large, big rocks which are "general" or "broad brush") versus a least common denominator which would be more specifically defined and create too much noise. 
• Historically these groups (most commonly two, D's and R's) trade blows via elections and majority favor every 2 years, with the challenger being rewarded for being the critic and the unprovable "I would have done X and then Y would be better (or Z wouldn't have happened, which is bad).
• R's doing well this election cycle, while sad for a lot of people, a) shouldn't really be surprising and b) should give you hope as that means that historically speaking, D's will be better set up for the '24 election
• People on this website specifically suffer from a bias of thinking that our general way of thinking is so absolutely right and naturally, ethically and morally superior that people are evil/stupid/crooks if they don't believe the same. I think this creates expectations, and even entitlements, that are increasingly irreparable at a macro level.

 

I don't think the guy was being literal when he said "today democracy dies" and is just trying to make a point using hyperbole, but I think even that is recency bias.

People have been saying this during times of national crisis (e.g. Great Depression, McCarthyism, Civil Rights era/transformation, cold war crisis, etc.) the last 100 years, I would guess, and I think it's just our turn to experience it and pretend it's unique. 

 

Have you not been paying attention?  What do you think it means about our "democracy" when one party has literally dozens of candidates and a good chunk of states prepping to ignore D votes?  I mean, doesn't that strike you as a new paradigm?

For fuck's sake.

[Captainant 27467]

Fuck you @Chrispy aka @DonkeyCigars aka @MonkeyCigarette aka @MeerkatBong for leaving out the massive degree of voter suppression and gerrymandering that's happening at the hands of the right. 

Year over year, fewer voters are getting more seats in the capitol. It's the actual real mechanism by which democracy dies. 

[4th&Five 41461]

28 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

They really do. They had the perfect opportunity to spend the last two years explaining to the American public how all this economic downturn really is on Trump’s policies. They could have spent the better part of the last two years explaining how the yield curve inverted in 2019 (ie pre-pandemic) due to Trump’s trade war and tariffs and all that goofy shit that was known at the time to court a recession (as yield curve inversions always do) in 2-3 years time. They knew all of this and didn’t even bother explaining to potential voters that “no, this pre-dates Biden’s presidency, it pre-dates his announced candidacy and it in fact pre-dates the entire pandemic.” It’s really breathtaking how horribly they fucked this up and put everything on Dobbs and January 6th to carry them through today. They had so many more bullets in that gun and figured firing two  would suffice.

EDIT: and even if the mother of all miracles does happen and the Democrats manage to hold both chambers, two things:

1. it should never have been that close

2. they do not have the sense to put it to use. If they do retain both and somehow grow their senate lead by two, the first order of business on day damn one must be to kill the filibuster and convince Biden to unpack the court. Even if the mother of all miracles happens, I seriously doubt that will happen. 

You're not serious, right?  The same segment of voters that either ignored or were never going to be swayed by the 1/6 hearings are going to listen to a reasoned discussion on economic policy?

[Foosters 17734]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Fuck you @Chrispy aka @DonkeyCigars aka @MonkeyCigarette aka @MeerkatBong for leaving out the massive degree of voter suppression and gerrymandering that's happening at the hands of the right. 

Year over year, fewer voters are getting more seats in the capitol. It's the actual real mechanism by which democracy dies. 

Why do you do this? Do you think the rest of us want to watch you engage with a pack of trolls? Just fucking PM them and have at it.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

I feel compelled to defend chihuahua mixes.  Granted, mine is mostly minpin but damn he's a great dog. I mean like this:

[wildcat09 29260]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

 

Have you not been paying attention?  What do you think it means about our "democracy" when one party has literally dozens of candidates and a good chunk of states prepping to ignore D votes?  I mean, doesn't that strike you as a new paradigm?

For fuck's sake.

His posts make a lot more sense if you realize they're all just him telling us this:

[Captainant 27467]

1 minute ago, Foosters said:

Why do you do this? Do you think the rest of us want to watch you engage with a pack of trolls? Just fucking PM them and have at it.

Well then maybe the site admins should stop allowing frequent fliers to return to the site after getting banned four fucking times? cc: GRUhorn

[Foosters 17734]

Just now, Captainant said:

Well then maybe the site admins should stop allowing frequent fliers to return to the site after getting banned four fucking times? cc: GRUhorn

I don't disagree, but continuing to invite them into disucssions isn't really addressing the problem.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

 

Have you not been paying attention?  What do you think it means about our "democracy" when one party has literally dozens of candidates and a good chunk of states prepping to ignore D votes?  I mean, doesn't that strike you as a new paradigm?

For fuck's sake.

I agree completely, but the issue isn't the paradigm, it's how you combat the new paradigm.  And Dems aren't doing a good job on that.  They are just screeching - new bad paradigm.  They need to sell stuff they do well (economy) and figure out ways to sell stuff they are seen as not being interested in (crime prevention).  And they need to think outside their box -  embrace hunters in the environmental area and responsible gun owners in the gun area.

[C-Man 27058]

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

 

Have you not been paying attention?  What do you think it means about our "democracy" when one party has literally dozens of candidates and a good chunk of states prepping to ignore D votes?  I mean, doesn't that strike you as a new paradigm?

For fuck's sake.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

7 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

You're not serious, right?  The same segment of voters that either ignored or were never going to be swayed by the 1/6 hearings are going to listen to a reasoned discussion on economic policy?

No, but they are going to really engage in a discussion about abortion and how they themselves are a danger to democracy. 

None of this shit gets done on the national level.  If we want to turn shit around it means getting involved in school board elections and dealing face to face with relatives and friends  In the neighborhood, not on twitter.

[Captainant 27467]

5 minutes ago, Foosters said:

I don't disagree, but continuing to invite them into disucssions isn't really addressing the problem.

The joke is that three of those accounts are banned previous incarnations of the same dude I'm talking to. 

The fucking problem is that there cannot be a fucking discussion with these people. They will relentlessly lie, misquote, miscite, and misrepresent information to advance a false narrative, just like how poe so helpfully demonstrated earlier in this thread. Sure, you can take the time to write down why they're wrong and dishonest to frame it that way, but then they're on to the next thing.

Turns out it's easier to smear shit on the walls than it is to clean it up. Too bad we keep letting the shit smearers in.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Captainant

[mchookem 16225]

 

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Fuck you @Chrispy aka @DonkeyCigars aka @MonkeyCigarette aka @MeerkatBong for leaving out the massive degree of voter suppression and gerrymandering that's happening at the hands of the right. 

Year over year, fewer voters are getting more seats in the capitol. It's the actual real mechanism by which democracy dies. 

yeah...it IS literal. literally. 

we are well down the road of the textbook historical fall into authoritarianism. 

people rolling their eyes and claiming melodrama are either not paying attention (i.e. most of America), or are okay with it/think it's no big deal bc your 'team' is the one pulling the fascism levers (i.e. posters on this site).

1 minute ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I agree completely, but the issue isn't the paradigm, it's how you combat the new paradigm.  And Dems aren't doing a good job on that.  They are just screeching - new bad paradigm.  They need to sell stuff they do well (economy) and figure out ways to sell stuff they are seen as not being interested in (crime prevention).  And they need to think outside their box -  embrace hunters in the environmental area and responsible gun owners in the gun area.

...and it's way too late for this lol. choices are evil vs. inept.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

11 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I feel compelled to defend chihuahua mixes.  Granted, mine is mostly minpin but damn he's a great dog. I mean like this:

I'm sure I'm helping derail the thread a bit, but plenty of time for doom.  I have heard good things about minpins and briefly knew one via a neighbor.  I have also heard some people swear that they had great chihhuahas.  But I feel like Jimmy and my family's experience with the breed/mix isn't all that rare.  

Also, I'm biased towards larger breeds but lost the vote on this one.  

[jimmyjazz 45560]

4 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I have also heard some people swear that they had great chihhuahas.  But I feel like Jimmy and my family's experience with the breed/mix isn't all that rare.  

I mean, she's the size of my boot and she thinks she's a bull mastiff.

[hpslugga 4044]

22 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

You're not serious, right?  The same segment of voters that either ignored or were never going to be swayed by the 1/6 hearings are going to listen to a reasoned discussion on economic policy?

No, not the dyed in the wool types. I get that. They’re incurable.

But there’s a very large segment of people who are called swing voters who, in this case, allowed their priorities to be massively shifted towards misguided economic considerations and blaming Biden for same, which is just insane on so many levels. But the Democrats never even attempted to lure them out of that, and that also has the effect of inspiring insufficient turnout.

Just wait and see what turnout happens to be at the end of all this, and consider what’s really at stake here. The issue really was 2020 denialism and all it implies, yet turnout will tell the sorry tale about how this was “just another election year” where the President’s party lost because of misconceptions about the economy.

[wildcat09 29260]

1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

No, not the dyed in the wool types. I get that. They’re incurable.

But there’s a very large segment of people who are called swing voters who, in this case, allowed their priorities to be massively shifted towards misguided economic considerations and blaming Biden for same, which is just insane on so many levels. But the Democrats never even attempted to lure them out of that, and that also has the effect of inspiring insufficient turnout.

Just wait and see what turnout happens to be at the end of all this, and consider what’s really at stake here. The issue really was 2020 denialism and all it implies, yet turnout will tell the sorry tale about how this was “just another election year” where the President’s party lost because of misconceptions about the economy.

But surely there's no explanation for any of it. They trusted the same leadership and the same strategy that has so ably guided them through so many prior elections!

[Your Mom 4797]

27 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The joke is that three of those accounts are banned previous incarnations of the same dude I'm talking to. 

The fucking problem is that there cannot be a fucking discussion with these people. They will relentlessly lie, misquote, miscite, and misrepresent information to advance a false narrative, just like how poe so helpfully demonstrated earlier in this thread. Sure, you can take the time to write down why they're wrong and dishonest to frame it that way, but then they're on to the next thing.

Turns out it's easier to smear shit on the walls than it is to clean it up. Too bad we keep letting the shit smearers in.

You might be taking this message board thing a little too seriously.  Your complaints aren’t wrong but you’re expecting a bit much from this fairly insignificant political board within a football fan site which also has a section called “I’d Pee in Her Butt” which probably gets more traffic than this particular board. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2659]

https://truthout.org/articles/georgias-governor-deputized-gop-vigilantes-to-challenge-149000-voters/

Can someone explain to me like I'm five, how this isn't quite literally about to result in Herschel's coronation? The margin in that race is way slimmer. 

They challenged damn near 150,000 voters with nothing of substance to back it, who have lost their constitutional right to vote in Georgia unless they personally went and proved otherwise?   W. T. F.   How in the fuck does everyone across the country not know about this shit? Should be screamed across the headlines.

[mchookem 16225]

...and people on this very thread are decrying it as over-reaction or melodrama.

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

2 minutes ago, mchookem said:

...and people on this very thread are decrying it as over-reaction or melodrama.

 

Because it's the result they want.  They actively oppose democracy, and support authoritarianism.

Let's put it in simple terms:

If 1 immigrant, non-citizen votes?  THE BIGGEST SCANDAL AND ELECTION THEFT OUR COUNTRY HAS EVER SEEN!!!!  ILLEGALS STEALING MY VOTE!!!!

If 10,000 eligible voters, mostly minorities, have their right to vote taken by a bullshit "challenge?"  THAT'S ON THEM!!!!  IT'S WORTH CANCELLING THOUSANDS OF VOTES TO PROTECT ELECTION INTEGRITY!!!

These people, in short, are anti-American scum.  They are loathsome, you should hate them, and when they eventually commit violence, don't be surprised -- it's the natural end-point of their way of thinking.  Their side MUST win, by any means necessary.  That means "ANY" means they feel are necessary.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

If 1 immigrant, non-citizen votes?  THE BIGGEST SCANDAL AND ELECTION THEFT OUR COUNTRY HAS EVER SEEN!!!!  ILLEGALS STEALING MY VOTE!!!!

If 10,000 eligible voters, mostly minorities, have their right to vote taken by a bullshit "challenge?"  THAT'S ON THEM!!!!  IT'S WORTH CANCELLING THOUSANDS OF VOTES TO PROTECT ELECTION INTEGRITY!!!

That's not it at all.  They fear their impending loss of racial majority status.  That's it.  They aren't worried about a non-citizen voting in the sense that it offends their patriotic sensibilities.  They simply want to gain control for the last time and permanently enshrine that control.

"Immigrant" has nothing to do with it.  "Race" has everything to do with it, and party leadership has played them masterfully to exploit their bigotry.

[Gengs1 2583]

The best part all of this is the people cheering for them will get hurt the most by them and still cheer 

[Humble Beast 258]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

No, not the dyed in the wool types. I get that. They’re incurable.

But there’s a very large segment of people who are called swing voters who, in this case, allowed their priorities to be massively shifted towards misguided economic considerations and blaming Biden for same, which is just insane on so many levels. But the Democrats never even attempted to lure them out of that, and that also has the effect of inspiring insufficient turnout.

Just wait and see what turnout happens to be at the end of all this, and consider what’s really at stake here. The issue really was 2020 denialism and all it implies, yet turnout will tell the sorry tale about how this was “just another election year” where the President’s party lost because of misconceptions about the economy.

Biden’s approval rating with independents in the last NBC news poll was 28%. That’s a jaw dropping number. Yet somehow posters like yourself are going to be surprised or blame messaging and strategy. Not policy or results. Like I said, introspection needed. Get news from other sources beside the coastal progressive elite that disregard numbers like that staring them in the face. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

 Next person to engage Humble Or Meerkat is getting negged for engaging multiple banned trolls 

[mchookem 16225]

yeah i mean he's literally ignoring the entire content of this thread 🙄

[Born to Run 6568]

No, but they are going to really engage in a discussion about abortion and how they themselves are a danger to democracy. 
None of this shit gets done on the national level.  If we want to turn shit around it means getting involved in school board elections and dealing face to face with relatives and friends  In the neighborhood, not on twitter.

Good luck with. I can't even turn my own mother, despite years of effort. Voted straight R (excepting Paxton)

She supports.
Pro choice up to 21 months and for rape
Ar15s banned or restricted
Big fan of Obama care After she got fired and had to get her own insurance
Pro Medicare expansion.
Loves that socialist Social Security.

"What do you like about Republicans?"

Response?

"They let you think for yourself."

Fuck me.

[hobbes2702 12847]

16 minutes ago, Humble Beast said:

Biden’s approval rating with independents in the last NBC news poll was 28%. That’s a jaw dropping number. Yet somehow posters like yourself are going to be surprised or blame messaging and strategy. Not policy or results. Like I said, introspection needed. Get news from other sources beside the coastal progressive elite that disregard numbers like that staring them in the face. 

Shut the fuck up you fucking moron

[tigol 2383]

2 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Good luck with. I can't even turn my own mother, despite years of effort. Voted straight R (excepting Paxton)

She supports.
Pro choice up to 21 months and for rape
Ar15s banned or restricted
Big fan of Obama care After she got fired and had to get her own insurance
Pro Medicare expansion.
Loves that socialist Social Security.

"What do you like about Republicans?"

Response?

"They let you think for yourself."

Fuck me.

What in the actual fuck?

[hobbes2702 12847]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

 Next person to engage Humble Or Meerkat is getting negged for engaging multiple banned trolls 

If only we had someone who was in charge of banning people…

[mchookem 16225]

6 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Good luck with. I can't even turn my own mother, despite years of effort. Voted straight R (excepting Paxton)

She supports.
Pro choice up to 21 months and for rape
Ar15s banned or restricted
Big fan of Obama care After she got fired and had to get her own insurance
Pro Medicare expansion.
Loves that socialist Social Security.

"What do you like about Republicans?"

Response?

"They let you think for yourself."

Fuck me.

fits right in with my late mother who once told me 'Republicans just want to take my money for themselves...Democrats want to give it to other people!' 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Bro, that was literally the platform of the Republican party for the past two years. They lost, so democracy was stolen.

It was pathetic then and only seems less pathetic because of the tenor on the board. 

[Voldemort86 2259]

17 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Good luck with. I can't even turn my own mother, despite years of effort. Voted straight R (excepting Paxton)

She supports.
Pro choice up to 21 months and for rape
Ar15s banned or restricted
Big fan of Obama care After she got fired and had to get her own insurance
Pro Medicare expansion.
Loves that socialist Social Security.

"What do you like about Republicans?"

Response?

"They let you think for yourself."

Fuck me.

Moms friend watches Fox News all the time, but she’s on Obamacare and she loves it. She’s so cheap that whenever they go places she never drives and when they host watch parties for tv shows she never hosts.
 

 

[hpslugga 4044]

55 minutes ago, Humble Beast said:

Get news from other sources beside the coastal progressive elite that disregard numbers like that staring them in the face. 

Comedy gold

[wildcat09 29260]

25 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

It was pathetic then and only seems less pathetic because of the tenor on the board. 

I don't think you even know what you're trying to say here.

[mchookem 16225]

oh, i do...allow me to translate...

lib tears!

 

[Sawbonz 27437]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I mean, she's the size of my boot and she thinks she's a bull mastiff.

[aggie08 21434]

19 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Comedy gold

Dude, GRHorn is telling eveyone to expand their information bubbles. You can't make this shit up. The right may be getting better at comedy after all.

[Goredho 17349]

This thread is a train wreck.  There will never be a final victory or loss of good or evil.  The first Civil War, Adolf Hitler, the Berlin Wall and Apartheid all came and went.  If today is the day America as we thought we knew it dies, then at least our imperative is clear -- we must fight to rebuild something greater atop the ruins.

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

1 hour ago, Born to Run said:

Pro choice up to 21 months and for rape

This could be "interesting".

[Incredulity 11555]

Anyone with teenagers is probably in favor of abortion up to 21 years.

[washparkhorn 9935]

2 hours ago, Gengs1 said:

The best part all of this is the people cheering for them will get hurt the most by them and still cheer