2023 Hall of Fame thread

[Beau Vine 54,340]

9 hours ago, uoftorange said:

he was way better than Jeter on defense

[dcar00 14,321]

On 1/25/2023 at 6:19 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Glad to see Beltran is off to a good start. In that half-season he was an Astro for the first time, he was the best all-around player I'd ever seen for Houston, especially in the playoffs, when he was otherworldly.

Carlos Beltran never led the league in a single offensive category in his 20 years in MLB.

[dcar00 14,321]

I'm looking at soon to be first ballot guys, next 5-8 years.  how the hell is Cabrerra's WAR only 67?

[Fudge Nuggets 19,210]

On 1/25/2023 at 6:19 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Glad to see Beltran is off to a good start. In that half-season he was an Astro for the first time, he was the best all-around player I'd ever seen for Houston, especially in the playoffs, when he was otherworldly.

He wound up holding or being tied for the single postseason HR record for 16 years and did it all by the end of the NLCS.  I don’t think I’ve ever seen a dude that locked in before then.

[YGIFS 19,452]

Yeah, it's a mixed bag in terms of how the HOF voters take into account post-season work.  I didn't grow up with the Astros like many of y'all, but I appreciate what they've done as a body of work.  And Beltran's 2004 post-season was just fucking ridiculous.  20 for 46, 6 steals in 12 games, 8 bombs, 11 XBH, 9 walks, 21 runs scored.  Absolutely stupid..  And against ATL & STL, not exactly garbage pitching staffs.  

Anyway, Rolen deserved to get in given the 3b roster in there already.  Congrats to him and I hate the Cards.  Next year will be much more rich with intrigue and drama.  Here's to it...

Edited January 27, 2023 by YGIFS

[Frank Drebin 5,654]

Guys I think were shorted and should be in -- Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Carlos Beltran, and Kenny Lofton.

I don't think guys like Dick Allen, Lance Berkman or Bobby Abreu should be in.  But they are a hell of a lot better than some of the bums that are in the HOF.

[petscii 1,189]

It's moronic that one of the best pitchers in baseball is not going to be in the Hall of Fame.

[Scraps 13,570]

It's moronic that one of the best pitchers in baseball is not going to be in the Hall of Fame.

I agree Roger Clemens should be in the HOF

[petscii 1,189]

2 minutes ago, Scraps said:

 

 

I agree Roger Clemens should be in the HOF

 

Maybe Lincecum should rape a statue or something...

[formermav43 4,606]

Maybe he should have had more than 2 great seasons.

[Beau Vine 54,340]

 

[DaysOff 7,966]

Ohtani should already be in the red zone.

[Beau Vine 54,340]

5 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

Ohtani should already be in the red zone.

Agreed.  Altuve, too.

[DaysOff 7,966]

I wonder if he'll wear an anvil around his neck for the *cheating* scandal like some steroid era players.

[Beau Vine 54,340]

Holy shit, this is far and away the smallest induction crowd I've ever seen.  

[Scraps 13,570]

Scott Rolen looks like shit

[Beau Vine 54,340]

25 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Scott Rolen looks like shit

Just an incredible speech, though.  "Well, do that then" just destroyed me.

[cochamps 1,879]

6 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Just an incredible speech, though.  "Well, do that then" just destroyed me.

All HOF speeches are pretty much "feel good" stories.  That was hands down the best speech I've heard, and I've heard a bunch of them.  "Well do that then" will be part of my lexicon henceforth.

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

That Scott Rolen is a HOFer and Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds aren’t pretty much undermines the entire concept of the HOF. But whatever—just one more thing the Boomers destroyed.

[Beau Vine 54,340]

1 hour ago, cochamps said:

All HOF speeches are pretty much "feel good" stories.  That was hands down the best speech I've heard, and I've heard a bunch of them.  "Well do that then" will be part of my lexicon henceforth.

I will never forget George Brett's speech.  He was going around thanking everyone in his family.  He got to his brother Ken Brett, and just broke down sobbing, "All I ever wanted was to be as good as you."

[Beau Vine 54,340]

9 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Just an incredible speech, though.  "Well, do that then" just destroyed me.

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Beau Vine

[Mittens 8,293]

As good a thread as any for this pic....  4,507 Home Runs sitting here: 

Frank Thomas, Eddie Murray, Cal Ripken Jr, Larry Walker, Jim Thome, Dave Winfield, Ken Griffey Jr, Fred McGriff, Chipper Jones

[formermav43 4,606]

On 7/23/2023 at 9:40 PM, Ghost of LL said:

That Scott Rolen is a HOFer and Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds aren’t pretty much undermines the entire concept of the HOF. But whatever—just one more thing the Boomers destroyed.

Rolen *should* be in if you compare his numbers to other 3B. He’s a top 10 all-time player at the position. 

[YGIFS 19,452]

Yeah, I'm no Cardinals fan, but Rolen deserved the nod in every way.  There are so many "schools of thought" amongst the voters-longevity, MVP's, rings, best at your position for a given decade, ambassador for the game, personality, off-the-field shit, drugs/no drugs, basic stats v. deep analytics, etc.  But one thing they all seem to agree on is where do you compare to the other HOF'ers at your position and where do you compare to guys who've been left out thus far at your mutual position?  They all seem to take that heavily into account, and rightfully so.  For 150 years, the game has shown us that catchers just don't hit like RF'ers.  3b just don't run like CF'ers.  1b and LF aren't glove positions and 2b come in all shapes and sizes with anywhere from 1 tool to all 5.  

Rolen is easily among the best 3b to ever play the game (both on the field and at the plate).  Not a top 10 player overall, not a top 10 hitter, not a top 10 Cardinal maybe even.  But certainly in that Top 5-10 best 3b overall conversation.  Plus another thing  about that position, which is understandable given the difficulty of the position is a number of HOF 3b didn't play as much 3b as you may remember.  Brett played 23% of his games somewhere other than the hot corner.  Lindstrom-44%, Deacon White-49%, and Paul Molitor-47% (only played 6 full seasons at 3b).     

I understand you gotta go into Cooperstown with one position after your name, and one hat on your head.  But Rolen did what he did 99% of the time at 3b, and 1% as pinch hitter/runner.  Averaged 8 2/3 innings per appearance, 99% of that time at 3b.  Finished 92% of the games he started at 3b.  8 GG's across 3 decades.   Also apparently hit the ball.  

Barry Bonds can rot in baseball hell for eternity for all I give a shit.  Guy fucked up the game so bad, we're still unpacking his shit.  Fuck him.  

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

8 hours ago, formermav43 said:

Rolen *should* be in if you compare his numbers to other 3B. He’s a top 10 all-time player at the position. 

His numbers are very comparable to Buddy Bell.  And Buddy Bell isn't sniffing the HOF.

Scott Rolen can fuck right off.

[YGIFS 19,452]

decent comparison.  And admittedly, I have no idea how they calculate this on baseball-reference, but Hall of Fame Monitor (a very good predictor of who'll get in and who gets shut out) has Rolen at 99 and Bell down at 67.  That's a pretty marked difference.  Nevermind the slugging production differential, baserunning, and pure glove at 3b (Bell was a damn fine fielder when he played there full time).  Bell was also hampered by the fact he played in Texas during an era when most  sportswriters were still not aware we played baseball in Texas.  

[Beau Vine 54,340]

51 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

His numbers are very comparable to Buddy Bell.  And Buddy Bell isn't sniffing the HOF.

Scott Rolen can fuck right off.

I'll say it -- Buddy Bell should be in the HOF.   3Bmen are just criminally underrated for some reason. 

Edit: except for Brooks Robinson, who's a legit HOF, but is still overrated because of one week.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Beau Vine

[Had Enough 2,083]

.  
Barry Bonds can rot in baseball hell for eternity for all I give a shit.  Guy fucked up the game so bad, we're still unpacking his shit.  Fuck him.  

I am curious about this. How’d he mess it up so bad? And what is being unpacked?

He’s the anti-David Ortiz but otherwise what you got against him.

[Guest]

On 7/25/2023 at 9:00 AM, Ghost of LL said:

His numbers are very comparable to Buddy Bell.  And Buddy Bell isn't sniffing the HOF.

Scott Rolen can fuck right off.

He’s very deserving of HOF. His numbers are far superior to Bell’s and I love Buddy. This is a bad take. 

[dcar00 14,321]

If Scott Rolen is in Ken Boyer needs to be in.  They are essentially the same player.  Criminally underrated.  

[dcar00 14,321]

On 7/25/2023 at 9:28 AM, Beau Vine said:

I'll say it -- Buddy Bell should be in the HOF.   3Bmen are just criminally underrated for some reason. 

Edit: except for Brooks Robinson, who's a legit HOF, but is still overrated because of one week.

Brooks Robinson is overrated?

[Beau Vine 54,340]

8 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Brooks Robinson is overrated?

I don't know if he's still overrated, but I used to hear lots of arguments claiming that he was better than Schmidt.

Just looking over his BREF page, and want to see something crazy?  Look at the 1966 MVP voting:

[dcar00 14,321]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I don't know if he's still overrated, but I used to hear lots of arguments claiming that he was better than Schmidt.

Just looking over his BREF page, and want to see something crazy?  Look at the 1966 MVP voting:

crazy.  

anyone saying Robinson is better that schmidt is insane.  Mike Schmidt is the best 3rd baseman ever and IMO it's not close.  Robinson is top 5 IMO

[Fudge Nuggets 19,210]

On 8/9/2023 at 7:01 PM, Beau Vine said:

I don't know if he's still overrated, but I used to hear lots of arguments claiming that he was better than Schmidt.

Just looking over his BREF page, and want to see something crazy?  Look at the 1966 MVP voting:

I never thought Brooks Robinson was overrated, he got into the HOF based 99% on his glove (if not 100%) like Ozzie Smith.  But yeah, if anyone says he was better than Schmidt, they high as fuck.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,210]

On 8/9/2023 at 7:10 PM, dcar00 said:

Mike Schmidt is the best 3rd baseman ever and IMO it's not close. 

This is the correct answer.  The only one halfway close was Eddie Matthews followed by George Brett.

[YGIFS 19,452]

Did not know that Eddie Matthews was from Texas.  Was a great all-around 3b, below Schmidt and Robinson but woefully underrated due to a small market team and not the same great glove.  

Speaking of Texas, was watching "The Sandberg Game" documentary last night after going down a rabbit hole.  It's a great watch in under 45 minutes.  I didn't know for years after I moved to Texas that Keith Moreland, a beloved Cubs player of mine as a kid, played here.  And then to find out that Dave Owen who delivered the walk off hit in that famous game was from Texas and his brother played a little college ball as well-Spike Owen.  But to think about how many Hall of Famers were involved in that game that day.  Harry Caray  from the booth.  Lee Smith, Dennis Eckersley, and Ryne Sandberg for the Cubs.  Bruce Sutter, Whitey Herzog, and Ozzie Smith for the Cards.  And although Costas calls most of the game and does most of the heavy lifting for the documentary, listening to the audio of Harry at the end brought back a lot of memories for me growing up listening to him with my dad at Wrigley or in the car or on WGN.  Anyway, slight HoF adjacent until we start the next argument over who should be in and who shouldn't:

And then I remembered several years back and getting choked up as hell watching this Bud ad for Harry and completely forgot he was implicated in a longtime affair with one of the A-B heiresses.  But this tribute they did to a HoF broadcaster still gets me: