The Republican Civil War - it will be because we destroyed ourselves

[Js1 85328]

6 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

they’ll kick it back to the states, and R’s have the majority of state houses 

And please explain how this will happen. 

[tx 3 putt 76951]

17 minutes ago, Js1 said:

And please explain how this will happen. 

they’re going to he much smarter and surgical this time around. they don’t need a win, only an election where no one gets 270. 
 

he doesn’t need to ‘win’ Georgia. He needs enough smoke and chaos that the georgia house has to decide. Repeat for AZ 

Edited March 12 by tx 3 putt

[pacman 7355]

[tx 3 putt 76951]

4 minutes ago, pacman said:

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20398]

Ken Buck is one of the few who has shown any form of backbone.

 

[Js1 85328]

2 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

they’re going to he much smarter and surgical this time around. they don’t need a win, only an election where no one gets 270. 
 

he doesn’t need to ‘win’ Georgia. He needs enough smoke and chaos that the georgia house has to decide. Repeat for AZ 

You should probably look into the reforms of the Electoral Count Act that were passed into law in 2022.  And probably stop spreading conspiracy theories that the House is going to overturn the will of the vote to make Trump the winner. 

Edited March 12 by Js1

[tx 3 putt 76951]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

You should probably look into the reforms of the Electoral Count Act that were passed into law in 2022.  And probably stop spreading conspiracy theories that the House is going to overturn the will of the vote to make Trump the winner. 

state houses, not the house. 

[Chewbacca 7777]

9 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Ken Buck is one of the few who has shown any form of backbone.

 

Not really.  He didn't, then he did.  Then he didn't again, now he's retiring.

[Js1 85328]

13 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Not really.  He didn't, then he did.  Then he didn't again, now he's retiring.

The same backbone Buck who said the GOP was doing nothing productive and then filed a resolution to try and force the cabinet to 25th amendment Biden. Absolute jackass 

[Chewbacca 7777]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The same backbone Buck who said the GOP was doing nothing productive and then filed a resolution to try and force the cabinet to 25th amendment Biden. Absolute jackass 

Yep.  Fuck that guy.

[F250 28774]

5 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

And they would support a former KGB officer turned dictator of Russia over freedom.

I didn't see the Russian flip happening. That really did surprise me.

[Bozo_Casanova 26455]

3 hours ago, pacman said:

That’s a shame

 

1 hour ago, F250 said:

I didn't see the Russian flip happening. That really did surprise me.

IIRC, you used to be a Republican, right? 

[Dnaguy 11960]

7 hours ago, Red Five said:

Imagine a time traveler coming to you 10-15 years ago and telling you that in the future, Donald Trump will take control of the republican party.

[F250 28774]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That’s a shame

 

IIRC, you used to be a Republican, right? 

No.

[Biff Tannen 45683]

7 hours ago, YGIFS said:

I would picture it like Doc asking Marty in BttF, “then tell me something Future Boy!  Who is President in 2017??”

-Uh, Donald Trump.

”Donald Trump?  The gameshow host?!?”  (Slams door)

Then who is Vice President?  Aaron Rodgers?!?!

[YGIFS 19450]

GREAT SCOTT!!!

[Bozo_Casanova 26455]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

No.

Sorry though you were- why is the flip surprising to you?

[F250 28774]

12 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Sorry though you were- why is the flip surprising to you?

Everyone in America over 45 years old has been conditioned to see Russia as the enemy. The Republicans were always the "Nuke Moscow" types and watched Red Dawn on repeat for the last 40 years. Plus they always need an enemy. It was surprising to see people drop a life long hatered because Trump and Putin were in love. Granted, the Democratic party and minority groups are the new enemy, still to see peoples brains switch so quickly was weird.

[conVINCEd 21469]

Just now, F250 said:

Everyone in America over 45 years old has been conditioned to see Russia as the enemy. The Republicans were always the "Nuke Moscow" types and watched Red Dawn on repeat for the last 40 years. Plus they always need an enemy. It was surprising to see people drop a life long hatered because Trump and Putin were in love. Granted, the Democratic party and minority groups are the new enemy, still to see peoples brains switch so quickly was weird.

Co-sign.

[Gatorubet 30238]

John Birch “Missile Gap” - drink!!!!

[atomheartbevo 89661]

6 minutes ago, F250 said:

Republicans were always the "Nuke Moscow" types and watched Red Dawn on repeat for the last 40 years

And those watching S2 of For All Mankind were like

 

and then

[Pato del Muerto 52497]

10 minutes ago, F250 said:

Everyone in America over 45 years old has been conditioned to see Russia as the enemy. The Republicans were always the "Nuke Moscow" types and watched Red Dawn on repeat for the last 40 years. Plus they always need an enemy. It was surprising to see people drop a life long hatered because Trump and Putin were in love. Granted, the Democratic party and minority groups are the new enemy, still to see peoples brains switch so quickly was weird.

When the enemy became democrats, republicans realized that Russia was now aligned with them. It was fait accompli.  

[RDCanecutter 26435]

3 hours ago, F250 said:

I didn't see the Russian flip happening. That really did surprise me.

Well the French and the British didn't come help the Confederacy, maybe the Russians will.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

6 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Ken Buck is one of the few who has shown any form of backbone.

That’s a death sentence in the modern GOP.  

 

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

 

 

 

[tx 3 putt 76951]

7 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

[High Plains Drifter 11049]

7 hours ago, Js1 said:

You should probably look into the reforms of the Electoral Count Act that were passed into law in 2022.  And probably stop spreading conspiracy theories that the House is going to overturn the will of the vote to make Trump the winner. 

 

Given the chance, a R-controlled US House would absolutely overturn the will of the vote. 

 

 

3 hours ago, F250 said:

Everyone in America over 45 years old has been conditioned to see Russia as the enemy. The Republicans were always the "Nuke Moscow" types and watched Red Dawn on repeat for the last 40 years. Plus they always need an enemy. It was surprising to see people drop a life long hatered because Trump and Putin were in love. Granted, the Democratic party and minority groups are the new enemy, still to see peoples brains switch so quickly was weird.

 

It used to be democracy vs communism. Now its woke vs unwoke. Russia is unwoke, therefore they are no longer the enemy. 

 

 

[tx 3 putt 76951]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

 

 

the GoP is sooooooooooo fucked 

[Biff Tannen 45683]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

 

the GoP is sooooooooooo fucked 

Or we all are. 

[mchookem 16334]

19 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

On the one hand it’s funny because the people who opened the leopard cage are getting their faces eaten. 

On the other hand, one of the two major American political parties is now not a political party at all but just a machine to advance the interests of one corrupt man. 

 

43 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

 

the GoP is sooooooooooo fucked 

well. bring on the 21st century Whigs!  

[atomheartbevo 89661]

 

[tx 3 putt 76951]

Let them eat each other 

[NWBuck 8559]

4 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

 

the GoP is sooooooooooo fucked 

Which would make him ineligible for the 2024 election, having won two consecutive terms. 

(sorry. I like to pretend that logic matters to those folks) 

[tx 3 putt 76951]

9 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Which would make him ineligible for the 2024 election, having won two consecutive terms. 

(sorry. I like to pretend that logic matters to those folks) 

[tx 3 putt 76951]

Run up those lines of credit …..

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/make-the-rnc-white-again-gop-ends-minority-outreach-program?ref=home?ref=home

 

Quote

After years of accusations of financial mismanagement, the Republican National Committee is overhauling its 2024 election operations—a full-on MAGA makeover that the RNC claims will curb excessive spending and steer as much money as possible to supporting Donald Trump’s campaign.

But it appears that one of those strategic spending moves may have a profound effect on a successful minority outreach program, which two people with knowledge of the plans characterized as self-defeating, potentially erasing gains with groups of gettable new voters who have cooled on the Democratic Party.

 

Quote

As one of the sources put it to The Daily Beast, the tagline might as well be “Make the RNC White Again.”

The program at issue is an initiative from the 2022 midterms where RNC field staff engaged voters through gatherings and events held at community centers in areas with heavy minority populations, most specifically Latino communities.

 

Quote

In January, The Messenger reported that the RNC had already shuttered most of the nearly two dozen Hispanic Community Centers that served as the base for the program, leaving just five open. (The Messenger’s content vanished when it went out of business shortly thereafter, but the article was captured by the nonprofit Internet Archive.)

At the time, however, the RNC chalked the closures up as a temporary byproduct of its budget cycle. However, the organization also announced that it was preparing to double down on these efforts for 2024, opening 40 new centers in Latino, Black, Asian American, Native American, Jewish, and veteran communities across the country. That would include establishing outposts in key battlegrounds like Las Vegas, Nevada, Tuscon, Arizona, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Allentown, Pennsylvania, The Messenger reported.

 

Spoiler

Jaime Florez, the RNC’s Hispanic communications director, told The Messenger that “Democrats have taken the Hispanic community for granted for far too long” and vowed that the RNC planned to capitalize on those opportunities.

“Republicans will continue to make historic investments in Hispanic voter outreach, from opening more community centers to launching ‘Deposita Tu Voto’, that will further our gains with Hispanic voters and deliver Republican victories in 2024,” Florez said at the time.

But two people with knowledge of the plans told The Daily Beast that the RNC has decided to scrap that effort. Instead, the people said, the community center program now appears to be another casualty of the RNC’s recent restructuring—a bloodbath that has already claimed several dozen jobs, including senior leadership posts, along with the apparent decimation of field operations and other strategic realignments that could come at the cost of Republican candidates across the country not fortunate enough to be named Trump.

Instead of going after minority voters, the RNC apparently plans to remake itself even more in Trump’s image.

While the size and complexity of modern presidential races demands close coordination between the candidate’s campaign and the national party, the unique pressures on Trump and the RNC—external and internal—forced a reckoning that has taken that standard teambuilding exercise to a new realm.

The catalyst for those events is the very real prospect of financial crisis now facing the two groups, thanks to stratospheric personal legal costs on Trump’s part and unsustainable fundraising and spending for both organizations. Coupled with demands for unconditional fealty to the MAGA brand—which have exacerbated fault lines within the party—the RNC found itself at an inflection point coming into 2024.

To resolve the tension, Trump essentially took control of the RNC. He forced out longtime chair Ronna McDaniel, replacing her with a trio of MAGA loyalists—including his own daughter-in-law, Lara Trump—who uprooted some of the RNC’s most experienced staff and welded the two organizations into what amounts to a single-purpose machine designed to fuel Trump’s attempt to reclaim the White House.

While one short-term goal is to minimize costs, the moves could come at great political expense in the long term, especially for down-ballot candidates who depend on the RNC for critical funding and other resources. But there are other intangible losses, like the exodus of talent, a blooming vacuum of institutional knowledge, and sapping momentum from field projects like the community center program.

That project not only had promise, it came at the right time. After ignoring their own “autopsy” of the GOP’s 2012 presidential loss, many Republicans began to court minority voters in the wake of Trump’s 2016 win. As paradoxical as that may seem, given Trump’s rhetoric and policies, those efforts appear to be bearing some fruit.

Today, a sizable portion of minority voters—historically a reliable well of Democratic support—have exhibited a disaffection with the party, particularly in younger demographics, drifting towards Republicans who champion conservative ideologies that have long been culturally ingrained in those communities but had not in themselves inspired voters to change parties.

There are competing explanations for this shift. For instance, some analysts argue it’s more an expression of educational shifts than of racial realignment. But no matter the underlying cause, after Trump’s decisive 2020 defeat in the popular vote, the RNC set about trying to connect with Hispanic groups on the grassroots level.

The community centers were key to that effort. They were viewed as a success and point of pride, sources with knowledge of the project told The Daily Beast. The Messenger described the project’s pitch as “a dream intersection of fun, civic life, candidate recruitment, and GOTV muscle,” reporting that in the midterms the centers hosted events like toy drives, religious services, holiday meals, cultural celebrations—and, for some reason, cryptocurrency workshops.

“Community centers continued to pop up in Hispanic communities and positive headlines continued to flow,” The Messenger reported.

While it’s difficult to measure the cost of these programs, people familiar with the effort shrugged off the expenses as comparatively minimal, especially given the positive preliminary returns. Most of the overhead, they said, would be related to renting space for the centers, along with staffing expenses and incidentals for events.

The RNC previously indicated that the rationalization for temporarily closing the centers was financial, considering the party’s cash woes. But if that’s also the explanation for a permanent shutdown, the savings would be thin.

Federal Election Commission filings show that in 2022, the RNC spent a grand total of just over $2 million on rent, with much of it going to campaigns and state and local parties for joint field work in the midterms. But some outlays give an idea of the cost—such as the $3,500 per month that the RNC paid to “No Limits Community Development” in Georgia. By comparison, around the same time, the RNC agreed to pay $1.6 million to cover Trump’s personal legal costs.

These rent payments also wouldn’t divert a penny of the RNC’s political money. Instead, the rent expenses came out of the party’s “building” account, a specially segregated bank account that can only be tapped for expenses related to buildings and maintenance.

The Daily Beast reached out to an RNC spokesperson for comment, who provided a statement from Trump campaign communications director Steven Cheung. The statement called the criticism of the community center closures “racist” and “complete bullshit,” but did not deny that the program had shut down.

“The racist accusations about the RNC and Trump campaign are complete bullshit, President Trump did more to benefit minority communities during his first term than any other President, especially Crooked Joe Biden, and that’s why he’s polling better with Black and Hispanic Americans,” Cheung said in the statement. (The metric Trump most favors to measure his efficacy as an advocate for the Black community—Black unemployment—reached new record lows under Biden.)

Cheung was apparently referencing a recent New York Times/Siena pollthat put Trump 6 points ahead of President Joe Biden in Hispanic voters—a major shift, but in line with the recent inroads that Trump and the GOP have made in certain Latino communities, like southern Florida.

However, the same poll showed that, while Biden’s support among Black voters has appeared to weaken, he still holds a 66-23 lead in that demographic over Trump, who has repeatedly expressed that his multiple criminal indictments are something he has in common with the Black community.

“I think that’s why the Black people are so much on my side now," Trump told attendees at an event for Black conservatives in South Carolina last month. "Because they see what’s happening to me happens to them.”

“President Trump will only continue to make gains with minority communities, just as he did from 2016 to 2020, no matter what the lowlifes at the Daily Beast report,” Cheung added.

The shuttered community outreach program would certainly be one way to do so. But that program was not an entirely smooth ride. It had its critics even within the GOP, who argued that while the initial effort was commendable, minority outreach works best as a long-term, continual investment, not an election-year burst of interest.

“They tried; we appreciate that,” Daniel Garza, executive director of grassroots Latino outreach group the LIBRE Initiative, told The Messenger in January. “But you have to have people on the inside who can advise you—these are long-term things that need to be backed by resources.”

In fairness, some projects themselves had setbacks. In Oklahoma City, the RNC Hispanic Community Center—which has since shuttered—got off to a rocky start.

At the opening of the site in July of 2022, the RNC honored Jonathan Hernandez, president of the Oklahoma College Republicans and a political operative in the state. But Hernandez was arrested less than a week later on charges of indecent or lewd acts with a minor and forcible oral sodomy. He pleaded guilty, got a five-year suspended sentence, and was ordered to register as a sex offender.

After the charges, he had no further involvement with the community center. Now, no one else will either.

 

[SydneyCarton 48100]

This had me rolling:  

Quote

dreamintersection of fun, civic life, candidate recruitment, and GOTV muscle,” reporting that in the midterms the centers hosted events like toy drives, religious services, holiday meals, cultural celebrations—and, for some reason, cryptocurrency workshops.

 

[Aqua Buddha 14596]

13 hours ago, F250 said:

Everyone in America over 45 years old has been conditioned to see Russia as the enemy. The Republicans were always the "Nuke Moscow" types and watched Red Dawn on repeat for the last 40 years. Plus they always need an enemy. It was surprising to see people drop a life long hatered because Trump and Putin were in love. Granted, the Democratic party and minority groups are the new enemy, still to see peoples brains switch so quickly was weird.

Don't forget the latent homosexuality that emerged when Putin rode a horse without a shirt on.

[TwiceHorn 31464]

21 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

they’re going to he much smarter and surgical this time around. they don’t need a win, only an election where no one gets 270. 
 

he doesn’t need to ‘win’ Georgia. He needs enough smoke and chaos that the georgia house has to decide. Repeat for AZ 

The problem for the GQP, as js1 probably alludes to, is that that will require complicity of the president of the Senate, who will be Kamala Harris. 

Now, what could be a problem is complicit state officials that attempt to certify a bogus set of electors. But I don't think GQP controls swing states where that would matter sufficiently to pull that off. 

[Js1 85328]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Now, what could be a problem is complicit state officials that attempt to certify a bogus set of electors. But I don't think GQP controls swing states where that would matter sufficiently to pull that off 

They cannot accept anything but the official slate of electors and only from the authority as noted in state law. So usually the governor or SOS. And they cannot retroactively change state laws after the election bc they don’t like the result. That’s all been laid out in the Electoral Count Reform Act 

Whatever electors signed and sent by the Arizona SOS (a Dem) is the only one Congress can accept and count, for instance 

They also upped the number of Reps and Senators needed to challenge each state’s electors. And it must be done in writing. There’s a bigger risk involved now than just letting Marge or Ted take the flack and challenge a state 

Edited March 13 by Js1

[Gengs1 2583]

13 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

You have to respect her grift here, she is feeding them what they want to hear and making bank doing it

 

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19416]

17 minutes ago, Gengs1 said:

You have to respect her grift here, she is feeding them what they want to hear and making bank doing it

 

 

You are assuming she isn't getting paid in Trump Bucks? 

[Gengs1 2583]

Just now, Pescado_Rojo said:

You are assuming she isn't getting paid in Trump Bucks? 

That maybe true, she will get paid real $ from the RNC and milk them pretty well. 

[atomheartbevo 89661]

42 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Now, what could be a problem is complicit state officials that attempt to certify a bogus set of electors. But I don't think GQP controls swing states where that would matter sufficiently to pull that off. 

There are bogus electors from 2020 ending up with felony charges/prison time as we speak so a lot of people who might think about that are going to cool their jets.  

Also really digging the RNC merging into the Trump campaign.  Even when he loses, he will still control the RNC and it’s coffers until the day he dies. He will never allow such a profitable venture to leave his grasp.  He’s really going to screw over down ballot candidates. 

[Js1 85328]

Taking over the DNC contributed heavily to Dem losses in 2010/2014 midterms as Obama’s campaign cannibalized most of the DNC resources and really screwed downballot Dems. Trump is doing the same thing 

Edited March 13 by Js1

[TwiceHorn 31464]

55 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

There are bogus electors from 2020 ending up with felony charges/prison time as we speak so a lot of people who might think about that are going to cool their jets.  

Also really digging the RNC merging into the Trump campaign.  Even when he loses, he will still control the RNC and it’s coffers until the day he dies. He will never allow such a profitable venture to leave his grasp.  He’s really going to screw over down ballot candidates. 

What I mean is rather than competing slates of real vs. bogus electors, as we had previously, is either changes to state law or an activist legislature/official that certifies a slate of electors inconsistent with the popular vote. 

That would present legal issues of its own, but different from what we have seen. And I am not sure any states have passed any laws successfully that would give this legal cover. 

[Js1 85328]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

What I mean is rather than competing slates of real vs. bogus electors, as we had previously, is either changes to state law or an activist legislature/official that certifies a slate of electors inconsistent with the popular vote. 

That would present legal issues of its own, but different from what we have seen. And I am not sure any states have passed any laws successfully that would give this legal cover. 

AFAIK, no states have passed laws that would circumvent their current procedures.  The governors currently submit the Certificate of Ascertainment that contains the Electors and their votes to Congress.  This continues unless state law gives someone else that responsibility (i.e., Secretary of State). 

The law also strikes a provision in an old 1845 law that could have been used by legislatures to override the popular vote by declaring a "failed election."  They can't do that, and they didn't do that in 2020. 

A general reminder:

NV - GOP (not super MAGA-y) governor and Dem SOS
AZ - Dem governor and SOS
WI - Dem governor (SOS doesn't have any election responsibility)
MI - Dem governor and SOS
PA - Dem governor
GA - GOP governor who hates Trump

[Dnaguy 11960]

45 minutes ago, Js1 said:

AFAIK, no states have passed laws that would circumvent their current procedures.  The governors currently submit the Certificate of Ascertainment that contains the Electors and their votes to Congress.  This continues unless state law gives someone else that responsibility (i.e., Secretary of State). 

The law also strikes a provision in an old 1845 law that could have been used by legislatures to override the popular vote by declaring a "failed election."  They can't do that, and they didn't do that in 2020. 

A general reminder:

NV - GOP (not super MAGA-y) governor and Dem SOS
AZ - Dem governor and SOS
WI - Dem governor (SOS doesn't have any election responsibility)
MI - Dem governor and SOS
PA - Dem governor
GA - GOP governor who hates Trump

So the cake is baked?

[Js1 85328]

Just now, Dnaguy said:

So the cake is baked?

Wouldn’t go that far but the people screaming that the House GOP and state legislatures in swing states will somehow muck it up enough to make Trump winner are just freaking out about things that can’t and won’t happen 

[tx 3 putt 76951]

😂😂😂😂😂