School me on Fireplaces

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

During the ATX freeze two years ago the thing barely threw off heat and was a bitch to start and keep much going (despite different wood selections). Same for the subsequent winter days when a fire would have been bad ass. I’d say the firebox is the size of a big microwave oven. I am now doing a remodel and can see the thing has thin walls which don’t seem to retain heat.
 
I grew up in cold parts of east coast where big stone hearths were the shit. Does a bigger fire place with thick walls equal better / easier fires and more heat? I get starting a fire is half the battle and getting steady upward heat is key.
 
TLDR - in Texas are there benefits to investing in a larger fireplace with seemingly thicker walls ?

[TeeDubya 3362]

following to learn more

I know you need adequate inbound air for a wood-burning fireplace, which is why when you have a roaring fire, there's often a draft coming in around doors.  
Make sure your house has a source of outside air (doesn't take much) to feed into the fire. 
Too much wood can result in an incomplete or smoky burn.  Sometimes, you have to slightly tinker with the damper opening to get it just right-too open: heat lost, too closed:  smoke enters the room.  Obviously, it can be a little hot adjusting a damper with an active fire....

need to use fully seasoned/dry hardwood too.  When all else fails, look into a fireback insert to help reflect more heat back.

[High Plains Drifter 11076]

 

A properly installed fireplace should have a little door thingy inside the actual fire pit that you can open to allow air to feed the fire and minimize drafts around the doors and windows.

But a fireplace is just about the worst way to heat a house. Nice and toasty right near the roaring fire, cold every where else, you have to keep poking the fire every so often.

Big stone/brick hearths around the fire pit is good.

Be sure you heat the flue well before lighting the fire.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4980]

Toss some bodark on the fire. That stuff burn hot.

[Gene Parmesan 4027]

My take is a fireplace in Texas or probably pretty much anywhere is for aesthetics than performance.  That and men love playing with fire.  Turn up the thermostat to get warm, start a fire to get your pyro jollies off.

[CooterBrown 18104]

My grandparents’ fireplace had a feature I’ve never seen since. Above the mantle were two small fans recessed in the brick facade. When you turned them on, they blew very hot air if a fire was burning. I think it pulled the hot air from between the brick facade and the chimney pipe which was heated up from the fire. Maybe it’s common in colder climates but they had this feature in south Texas.

[Jerry Callo 8848]

Traditional fireplaces are about the most inefficient method of heating.  I wouldn't spend much money trying to upgrade a fireplace for emergency heat.

[Incredulity 11728]

On 11/8/2022 at 8:03 PM, Axle Hongsnort said:

During the ATX freeze two years ago the thing barely threw off heat and was a bitch to start and keep much going (despite different wood selections). Same for the subsequent winter days when a fire would have been bad ass. I’d say the firebox is the size of a big microwave oven. I am now doing a remodel and can see the thing has thin walls which don’t seem to retain heat.
 
I grew up in cold parts of east coast where big stone hearths were the shit. Does a bigger fire place with thick walls equal better / easier fires and more heat? I get starting a fire is half the battle and getting steady upward heat is key.
 
TLDR - in Texas are there benefits to investing in a larger fireplace with seemingly thicker walls ?

Look into a wood burning fireplace insert with a heatilator.

Basically is a wood stove that fits in the space of the chimney.  The heatilator is the above described fan/blower that circulates cold air intake from near the bottom of the insert and pushes out hot air at the top.

 

[Chewbacca 7807]

Traditional fireplaces are about the most inefficient method of heating.  I wouldn't spend much money trying to upgrade a fireplace for emergency heat.

Gotta get a wood stove if you want real heat from a fire. Total overkill somewhere like TX, though.

[deadshank 24653]

1 hour ago, Jerry Callo said:

Traditional fireplaces are about the most inefficient method of heating.  I wouldn't spend much money trying to upgrade a fireplace for emergency heat.

Most of that is how they are built.  A traditional wood burner in a modern house AND with spray foam insulation will be a disaster without make up air.

There is a place in Boone, NC called The Hound Ears Club.  The HEC has a fireplace by the bar / mingling area in the club that is the most magnificent, old school fireplace that will throw heat out of it like nobody's business.  Whoever built that thing knew what he was doing.

[Born to Run 6591]

Gotta get a wood stove if you want real heat from a fire. Total overkill somewhere like TX, though.

I have one and it can heat my entire house if I set my HVAC to fan only which cost almost nothing to operate. Love it, no regrets, especially when we lose power in winter.

Plenty of upgrade options on traditional fire places including exhaust fans (until it heats up) and blowers that circulate air so it heats a large area.

[WhatTheBuck 28851]

6 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

7 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

Traditional fireplaces are about the most inefficient method of heating.  I wouldn't spend much money trying to upgrade a fireplace for emergency heat.

Gotta get a wood stove if you want real heat from a fire. Total overkill somewhere like TX, though.

When I was a kid I had some friends who lived out in the country and their dad installed a big ol’ wood burning stove in their family room. It was free standing and set out a little bit from the wall. Man, that thing radiated heat.

[Chewbacca 7807]

6 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

When I was a kid I had some friends who lived out in the country and their dad installed a big ol’ wood burning stove in their family room. It was free standing and set out a little bit from the wall. Man, that thing radiated heat.

We have one in our mountain house and I love the shit out of it.  Such gentle, radiating heat.  Definitely keeping it when we remodel, although our architect looked at me a little funny when I told him that.

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

Traditional fireplaces are about the most inefficient method of heating.  I wouldn't spend much money trying to upgrade a fireplace for emergency heat.

Yeah, I brought up the ATX freeze, but I’m not looking for emergency or primary heat source. Just something legit functional that compliments bourbon on a cold night like tonight, Christmas morning, playoff football while cooking, etc. I love the firewood smell in the house.

[Austinvines 318]

The shape matters but I’m not sure it can be retrofitted. A Rumford fireplace is great if you are building new.

A Texas Fireframe is awesome if you are trying to make a current fireplace better.

[url=https://www.texasfireframe.com/]https://www.texasfireframe.com/

My family has used them since the late 70’s early 80’s and they crank out the heat even with a marginal fireplace.

[troph 24929]

On 11/11/2022 at 6:48 PM, Axle Hongsnort said:

Yeah, I brought up the ATX freeze, but I’m not looking for emergency or primary heat source. Just something legit functional that compliments bourbon on a cold night like tonight, Christmas morning, playoff football while cooking, etc. I love the firewood smell in the house.

This is why you have one. Research rumford fireplaces, we have one of that type in our soon to be completed house I’m looking forward to using it. Prior to that I had a 5x3 traditional fire place but it was huge. It was amazing for ambiance and the living room was noticeably more warm, like a warm bath get in your bones warm. It’s inefficient for sure the amount of wood you have to burn for that heat to work well is too much, but sure does look and feel good for the soul to have a fire burning on a cold Saturday night.

[ROFL BOX 6650]

I had a corner fireplace in my South Austin 2 story townhouse.

Converted it to gas (there was already a stub out in the wall, I had to retrofit, etc).  Found out there are two types of gas systems:

(1) for ambiance & pyrotechnics, has a great look.  Doesn't provide a lot of radiant heat to the space.  Quiet.

(1) for good heat, looks good but not as appealing as the one noted above.  & Is noisy AF with a noticeable hiss sound from the gas flow.

Again, 2 story townhouse.  Maybe 500 sq. ft. downstairs / 500 up.  2 BR / 1 bath up & 1/2 bath down with living & kitchen + laundry.  Upstairs would get hot AF from the fireplace to where I could be sweating without even a t-shirt on.

 

YMMV.

[Macanudo 13102]

Um, is this a ROFL BOX siting?

[High Plains Drifter 11076]

On 11/10/2022 at 5:23 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

When I was a kid I had some friends who lived out in the country and their dad installed a big ol’ wood burning stove in their family room. It was free standing and set out a little bit from the wall. Man, that thing radiated heat.

 

our neighbor has a free standing wood burning stove in their living room. Literally in the middle of the room.

It toasts up the living room and kitchen with no problem. They leave their bedroom and bathroom doors open, and they stay warm enough as well. They only use the place as a vacation/weekend house. They have an electric space heater for the bedroom, but they never really use it.

They do burn up a lot of wood when they stay the occasional weekend or holiday. 

[Jkwellborn 6896]

Fireplaces suck ass. If you get one, get an insert with a fan on it.

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

I am now the owner of a new Valcourt fireplace. As mentioned unthread, research indicated the independent external air supply is key for an optimal hearth and our contractor is building in that conductor. About $6 grand all in, mitigated by doing as part of renovation. Fuck the haters, I have a quest for fire and for this to look like that.

[TKthunder2 5040]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:55 AM, CooterBrown said:

My grandparents’ fireplace had a feature I’ve never seen since. Above the mantle were two small fans recessed in the brick facade. When you turned them on, they blew very hot air if a fire was burning. I think it pulled the hot air from between the brick facade and the chimney pipe which was heated up from the fire. Maybe it’s common in colder climates but they had this feature in south Texas.

I have one of these. The fan motors that pushes the air through the vents is busted. Electrician didn’t want to fuck with it, so now it’s on my todo list.

[dcbc 14573]

We converted our wood burner to gas with the starter stub.   We picked up a nicer end ventless setup and just crack the flue.  It heats up the living room well even at low settings.  It's not noiseless, but looks good and heats things up well on cold nights.

[fattyflattie 4639]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:15 PM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Toss some bodark on the fire. That stuff burn hot.

Bois d’arc

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4980]

Osage Orange is the proper common name if you want to get technical.

[fattyflattie 4639]

12 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Osage Orange is the proper common name if you want to get technical.

It just took me a second to put i together last night. I don’t have any idea about the tree other than knowing it’s one; I used to have a client under that moniker.  

[Longhornstampede 3193]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:23 PM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Osage Orange is the proper common name if you want to get technical.

Horse apples

[Jkwellborn 6896]

Or horse shit. Petrified.

[Longhornstampede 3193]

Took the opportunity to fire up this bad boy makes it nice and cozy in the living room. Ha e to sit across the room or it gets too hot.

[Bevo 13659]

I got a quote for two FireplaceX gas fireplaces for $24,000. Anybody have any upscale gas fireplaces that they are happy with? I could go wood but collecting wood up and cleaning fireplaces in the mountains is kind of a pain in the ass. Plus, I get allergies and I don't like smoke even if limited getting in the house.

[otisdog 365]

43 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I got a quote for two FireplaceX gas fireplaces for $24,000. Anybody have any upscale gas fireplaces that they are happy with? I could go wood but collecting wood up and cleaning fireplaces in the mountains is kind of a pain in the ass. Plus, I get allergies and I don't like smoke even if limited getting in the house.

I've got a Fireplace X 36 elite and I love it...about $6K new. As noted above, turn on the HVAC fan and the whole house is warm. The windstorms here provide me with a continuous source of firewood.

[Bevo 13659]

57 minutes ago, otisdog said:

I've got a Fireplace X 36 elite and I love it...about $6K new. As noted above, turn on the HVAC fan and the whole house is warm. The windstorms here provide me with a continuous source of firewood.

Installed?

[troph 24929]

We’re back!!  It’s been 3 years since my last proper fire. Art not up yet some finer decor points still lacking but we have FIRE!!!  No peeing on it allowed in the new house. 
 

Edited January 27, 2023 by troph

[otisdog 365]

10 hours ago, Bevo said:

Installed?

No. It came with the 22 year old house that we bought 2 years ago, so the $6k figure I posted was rather deceiving. I was referring to replacement cost. We're actually going to move it to the next wall over so that it doesn't block our view of the ocean.  I don't know where the PNW architects learned their trade, but they've got some interesting ideas...

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by otisdog

[Bevo 13659]

4 minutes ago, otisdog said:

No. It came with the 22 year old house that we bought 2 years ago, so the $6k figure I posted was rather deceiving. I was referring to replacement cost. We're actually going to move it to the next wall over so that it doesn't block our view of the ocean.  I don't know where the PNW architects learned their trade, but they've got some interesting ideas...

 

Yeah my quote was basically 2X:

4237 Ember-Glo Clean Face GSR2                    60,000 BTU                             7,924.00
FACE, 4237 IRONWORKS CHARCOAL                                                                 2,170.00
Oak Log Set 4237 EG                                                                                           1,036.00
FIREBACK, 4237 BLACK GLASS EG*                                                                   1,146.00
Gas ZC V-Inst... Two Story Pipe, Labor & Final Setup                                        2,322.38

 

For a damn gas fireplace. I could see the masonry work being expensive, but that shit seemed way out of line. $8000 for the unit and $2300 for the install I could see but the $4500 in additional fees (Face, Log set, and Fireback) seemed crazy.

[otisdog 365]

The ironworks face is the 'artisan' upgrade, no?  We've bought that to upgrade our unit after we move it.  Yeah, that's a lot for a gas unit.

 

[troph 24929]

those look like really nice units. we we're pretty close to that for the fireplace, masonry materials and labor - it was probably $12K (and that's excluding the plumbing work for the gas line we added and any final finishes on the exterior).  We've seen intolerable increases in costs the last 2 years.  some costs have come down after spiking but it's still elevated.  labor costs are a major part of that increase.  We're paying $30/hour for skilled but not licensed labor (i.e. masonry, stucco, paint, trim, sheetrock, etc.).  It was below $20/hour 2 years ago.  That alone is over a 33% increase.

Edited January 27, 2023 by troph

[WhatTheBuck 28851]

On 1/24/2023 at 9:14 PM, Longhornstampede said:

Took the opportunity to fire up this bad boy makes it nice and cozy in the living room. Ha e to sit across the room or it gets too hot.

Great place for a lamp.

[Bevo 13659]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Great place for a lamp.

Maybe (FAFO), but I think it's the rug that really ties the room together.

 

BTW, troph, if you look at the quote above, the $15000 per fireplace does not include masonry. I am looking at some other brands such as Medota and Astria. Memdota has some "Bentley" doors that give it the rustic lodge feel similar to the FireplaceX. I'm hoping to come in at around $20K for the two fireplaces.

My roofing and siding are my main concerns, though. Those 2 quotes came in crazy high. Brava synthetic cedar shakes with metal roof accents and installation of cedar siding came in at first quote of $114K and $60K respectively. Quite frankly, I thought they would come in at about $20K each for a 2800sft mountain home. I need to go to the bank next week and I won't do it with those numbers. I've got to get the final price down for the complete build to 6 figures anyway. I'm about 50K minimum too high right now.

What were your construction prices like?

[troph 24929]

They were stupid high and my wife is the GC so we had full visibility. The only saving grace for us was 20-25% off with no GC fee. She’s a spec builder so she’s not building now it’s too expensive/too risky. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by troph

[Post Oak 20357]

On 1/26/2023 at 8:47 PM, troph said:

We’re back!!  It’s been 3 years since my last proper fire. Art not up yet some finer decor points still lacking but we have FIRE!!!  No peeing on it allowed in the new house. 
 

Really nice Troph.  Well done.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Post Oak

[Longhornstampede 3193]

7 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Great place for a lamp.

That lamp could have been a post in the stupid shit wives, etc.... Thread

[BottleRocket 647]

Wood burner at my wife's ranch house.

[Bevo 13659]

4 hours ago, BottleRocket said:

Wood burner at my wife's ranch house.

Wouldn't that be your ranch house?

[Chewbacca 7807]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:41 AM, troph said:

those look like really nice units. we we're pretty close to that for the fireplace, masonry materials and labor - it was probably $12K (and that's excluding the plumbing work for the gas line we added and any final finishes on the exterior).  We've seen intolerable increases in costs the last 2 years.  some costs have come down after spiking but it's still elevated.  labor costs are a major part of that increase.  We're paying $30/hour for skilled but not licensed labor (i.e. masonry, stucco, paint, trim, sheetrock, etc.).  It was below $20/hour 2 years ago.  That alone is over a 33% increase.

Have gotten similar news from our GC in the mountains.  Said materials are pretty much back at pre-pandemic prices but labor has doubled in the past couple of years.  Said framing crews that used to be $25/hr are now $65/hr.  Gotta love paying $600/sf for a remodel (not even a whole new house).

[Chewbacca 7807]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:57 PM, Bevo said:

Maybe (FAFO), but I think it's the rug that really ties the room together.

 

BTW, troph, if you look at the quote above, the $15000 per fireplace does not include masonry. I am looking at some other brands such as Medota and Astria. Memdota has some "Bentley" doors that give it the rustic lodge feel similar to the FireplaceX. I'm hoping to come in at around $20K for the two fireplaces.

My roofing and siding are my main concerns, though. Those 2 quotes came in crazy high. Brava synthetic cedar shakes with metal roof accents and installation of cedar siding came in at first quote of $114K and $60K respectively. Quite frankly, I thought they would come in at about $20K each for a 2800sft mountain home. I need to go to the bank next week and I won't do it with those numbers. I've got to get the final price down for the complete build to 6 figures anyway. I'm about 50K minimum too high right now.

What were your construction prices like?

Where in the mountains are you building?  We are looking at just over $1.5 million for a 2800sf remodel.  If I could get that under a million, I'd do backflips, but it's not happening.  We already did all the VE with the GC.  Initial estimate was almost $2 million.

And to stay on topic, we will have 2 fireplaces when done.  One wood stove inside and a gas fireplace on the patio.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Chewbacca

[Bevo 13659]

7 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Where in the mountains are you building?  We are looking at just over $1.5 million for a 2800sf remodel.  If I could get that under a million, I'd do backflips, but it's not happening.  We already did all the VE with the GC.  Initial estimate was almost $2 million.

And to stay on topic, we will have 2 fireplaces when done.  One wood stove inside and a gas fireplace on the patio.

Yeah, I should probably be happy - The builder says that it will be worth much, much more when completed. But, the prices are somewhat of a shock. My family owns a beautiful 4000sf home in the prestigious part of Santa Fe and they built it for $600-700K 20 years ago. And our house in Austin was $300K 7 years ago and $800K now. Prices are just kind of messed up - like how many people can afford million dollar homes. Shit, I don't think I could build a home in fucking Pflugerville or Buda for less than $700K. The price is the labor and material price, not the lot.

[Chewbacca 7807]

14 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Yeah, I should probably be happy - The builder says that it will be worth much, much more when completed. But, the prices are somewhat of a shock. My family owns a beautiful 4000sf home in the prestigious part of Santa Fe and they built it for $600-700K 20 years ago. And our house in Austin was $300K 7 years ago and $800K now. Prices are just kind of messed up - like how many people can afford million dollar homes. Shit, I don't think I could build a home in fucking Pflugerville or Buda for less than $700K. The price is the labor and material price, not the lot.

Yeah, I'll still be in good shape after the remodel since I bought the property for the right price 8 years ago, but the costs are just through the roof and not coming down.

[Bevo 13659]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, I'll still be in good shape after the remodel since I bought the property for the right price 8 years ago, but the costs are just through the roof and not coming down.

I kind of feel sorry for kids today. Our starter home in Cali is in the neighborhood of $1.9M now. It will be a long time before a young couple can afford that.

[fattyflattie 4639]

This is how it’s done.