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Vote for Augie as most iconic coach in CWS history

Goo Punch

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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1 hour ago, petscii said:

So  the argument against Dedeuax is that his tournaments were easier from the late 40's to mid 70's of winning consistently?   Isn't that like aggy saying our regional was easy while they were included in the regional?  If they were so easy why didn't anyone else win them?

Don't get me wrong, Augie belongs on the Mt Rushmore of college baseball for what he did at Cal State Fullerton alone.  But your argument for him is basically "durr, he coached Texas"

Of course in this era Rod would have been fired in 1967 for being a has been.

Are you serious? jesus the butthurt is strong here. Only one coach has won titles with two programs, and he did it multiple times with each team across four different decades, while the other guy had a great run the deck was factually stacked in his favor compared to Augie's titles. Augie won titles in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and 2000's. HELLO. "durr he coached at Texas" my ass. and calling us "aggy" for voting for Augie? 'fuck outta here.

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n64ra

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5 hours ago, DanRydell said:

Yeah, Dedeaux's titles are gaudy but it's pretty glaring how he only made it to Omaha once after the tournament changed to a regional format in 1975 and USC suddenly had to do more than just beat Cal State LA or Occidental or Portland in a three-game series to win District 8.

That may explain how he made it to the CWS so many times, but it doesn't explain how he won the CWS 11 times.

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TwiceHorn

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On 6/14/2018 at 3:11 PM, Goo Punch said:

Are you serious? jesus the butthurt is strong here. Only one coach has won titles with two programs, and he did it multiple times with each team across four different decades, while the other guy had a great run the deck was factually stacked in his favor compared to Augie's titles. Augie won titles in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and 2000's. HELLO. "durr he coached at Texas" my ass. and calling us "aggy" for voting for Augie? 'fuck outta here.

Petscii is not butthurt.  He's the longest-standing online Texas baseball fan here.  You can have legit arguments about Dedeaux and USC all day long and never arrive at an answer.

 

Dedeaux's accomplishments are remarkable, there is no question, and he is top 2 if not top ever.  But, given what we see with the tournament that draws relatively deeply into the RPI rankings, and what often happens with top 8 seeds on the way to Omaha, I think it's fairly safe to say that Dedeaux's record at the CWS would have been more difficult to attain in the more modern era.  And my analogy of modern top 8 seeds to the 8 teams selected for Omaha pre-tournament is not perfect, either.

 

Quote

That may explain how he made it to the CWS so many times, but it doesn't explain how he won the CWS 11 times.

And this is probably the best criticism of my criticism.  But the old system kind of placed a premium, perhaps as it should be, on RPI type factors like record, SOS, home/away, etc.  But the geographic divisions may have excluded some of the best competition and there was no allowance for "hot" teams, and, as we have seen, teams often outplay their season record in the post-season.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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Petscii's post was the epitome of butthurt. I don't give a shit if he's Cliff Gustafson himself, to say that the argument for Augie boils down to "well he was our coach, durr", and to claim that it was the only argument being made for Augie, is ridiculous. Straight out of the mouth of any aggy troll. I don't know your buddy from Adam, but that was the stupidest post of this entire thread by a mile.

Hell, it reminds me of the postings of the basketball board's worst posters as of late, re: Lebron vs MJ. Someone will make the case for Jordan and they get a, "Oh so LeBron sucks?" reply. No. Nobody said that, or anything approaching that. 

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TwiceHorn

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20 minutes ago, petscii said:

I really hope that isn't true.

 

You've been around a while, amigo.

 

And I disagree that it was "butthurt," whatever that means in this context.  If he were a USC fan, butthurt would make perfect sense, but as a Longhorn fan, it doesn't make much.  I'm sure most of us are pulling our punches in favor of Garrido, subconciously, at least.

 

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clapclapclap

clapclapclap 9000

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On 6/14/2018 at 2:59 PM, Footballpants said:

Done.

Is it me or does the cartoon of Augie look like George W. Bush?

I can see it.

Man, that cartoonist must hate Dedeaux.

Edit:  Some interesting stuff on Dedeaux (if Wikipedia is accurate):

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Dedeaux invested $500 to start a trucking firm, Dart (Dedeaux Automotive Repair and Transit) Enterprises, which he built into a successful regional business.[3][13] When his college coach, Sam Barry, entered the U.S. Navy during World War II,[14] he recommended Dedeaux to take over the team in 1942 for the war's duration. Upon Barry's return in 1946, they served as co-coaches, with Dedeaux running the team each year until Barry finished the basketball season.[15][16] USC won its first national title in 1948, over Yale, captained by first baseman George H. W. Bush.

Throughout his USC career, he accepted a nominal salary of just $1 per year, as his trucking business supplied him with a substantial income.

 

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It’s Rod no doubt. Recency bias and our mob may put Augie on top. I voted for him. But it’s disingenuous. 

Rod won 11 times. Augie won 5. There is no comparison. It’s like saying Coach K was better than Wooden, had Coach K coached UNC in the 80s and won his first 2 of 5 titles there. It doesn’t matter. Wooden won 10, and 7 in a row. Argument over. 

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TrashMaster G

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On 6/19/2018 at 9:25 PM, Rex Kramer said:

It’s Rod no doubt. Recency bias and our mob may put Augie on top. I voted for him. But it’s disingenuous. 

Rod won 11 times. Augie won 5. There is no comparison. It’s like saying Coach K was better than Wooden, had Coach K coached UNC in the 80s and won his first 2 of 5 titles there. It doesn’t matter. Wooden won 10, and 7 in a row. Argument over. 

Sorry, but BS.  It's not at all a clear answer.  

First, I believe Rod won 10 titles as HC, not 11 as the poll claims ('58, '61 '63, '68, '70. '71, '72, '73, '74, '78).  He did it all at a single school from 1958-1978.  It is impressive as hell, particularly the 5 in a row ('70-'74).  He won in three different decades, also impressive.

Augie won 5 titles and two different schools, in 4 different decades.  He won his first in '79, the year after Rod's last.  1979, 1984, 1995, 2002, 2005 - The titles span more than a quarter of a century and also span across the period of greatest change and expansion of the college game.  It went from a sport that could barely get it's national championship on tv to one where the expanded filed and lengthened playoff format got national tv coverage.  It spanned the beginning and end of the gorilla ball era. 

He won at different schools, in different eras and with different games.  None of that can be argued.

I'm not saying there is absolutely a right answer.  I AM saying there is NOT absolutely a right answer.

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23 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

Sorry, but BS.  It's not at all a clear answer.  

First, I believe Rod won 10 titles as HC, not 11 as the poll claims ('58, '61 '63, '68, '70. '71, '72, '73, '74, '78).  He did it all at a single school from 1958-1978.  It is impressive as hell, particularly the 5 in a row ('70-'74).  He won in three different decades, also impressive.

Augie won 5 titles and two different schools, in 4 different decades.  He won his first in '79, the year after Rod's last.  1979, 1984, 1995, 2002, 2005 - The titles span more than a quarter of a century and also span across the period of greatest change and expansion of the college game.  It went from a sport that could barely get it's national championship on tv to one where the expanded filed and lengthened playoff format got national tv coverage.  It spanned the beginning and end of the gorilla ball era. 

He won at different schools, in different eras and with different games.  None of that can be argued.

I'm not saying there is absolutely a right answer.  I AM saying there is NOT absolutely a right answer.

It was 11 and only the biggest homer try to cloud what is a very clear answer. 

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They were co-coaches. Barry was Dedeaux’s coach when he was at USC as player. Barry went to war in ‘42 and Rod took over. In ‘46, they were co-coaches until ‘50 when Barry died. Barry coached hoops if I recall and didn’t coach baseball until late spring every year. 

I’ve never heard Rod not having 11 titles. He won 11, also in 4 different decades. 

Icon is one thing.  Best coach is another. Dedeaux is the most prolific, no question. 

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petscii

petscii 1189

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I voted for Augie, mainly because I realized there is a large group of people who are voting for Bertman over Dedeaux for similar reasons...

Even if you remove the five national championships in a row that RD won,  he still won the remaining six in the 40,50's,60's and 70's...

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Goo Punch

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On 6/19/2018 at 9:25 PM, Rex Kramer said:

It’s Rod no doubt. Recency bias and our mob may put Augie on top. I voted for him. But it’s disingenuous. 

Rod won 11 times. Augie won 5. There is no comparison. It’s like saying Coach K was better than Wooden, had Coach K coached UNC in the 80s and won his first 2 of 5 titles there. It doesn’t matter. Wooden won 10, and 7 in a row. Argument over. 

stupid, and doesn't even address the actual issue. the question isn't who won more, it's who the most iconic coach is. one coach had one unreal run at one school during a time when he didn't even get tested until the title was 2-3 wins away. the other guy did it in four different decades in multiple eras of the sport and tournament, winning multiple titles at two different schools, where no other coach in history won at two different schools period. but dope post kirk bohls.

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7 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

stupid, and doesn't even address the actual issue. the question isn't who won more, it's who the most iconic coach is. one coach had one unreal run at one school during a time when he didn't even get tested until the title was 2-3 wins away. the other guy did it in four different decades in multiple eras of the sport and tournament, winning multiple titles at two different schools, where no other coach in history won at two different schools period. but dope post kirk bohls.

Hey Derka shut the fuck up. 

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28 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

dynamite counter Rex. and thanks for stopping by the baseball board, your contributions are appreciated and valued by everyone. 

You’re arguing the same tired points. Who’s more iconic, which was the poll, yet in your comments you continue to argue why Augie was the best. Rod won in 4 decades too. 

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Goo Punch

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no, my arguments are 100% about who is the most *iconic*. your argument that winning more automatically makes Dadeaux more iconic doesn't even touch on the idea of what makes an icon. who's more iconic, bill russell or michael jordan? mark messier or wayne gretzky? is terry bradshaw more iconic than every qb besides joe montana and tom brady? no. because winning the most does not equate to being "most iconic". augie invented one program which to this day is a national powerhouse, then took over for a legendary coach at a legendary program and went and won multiple titles there. that's why he's the most iconic coach in cws history, even if he's not the winningest.

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13 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

no, my arguments are 100% about who is the most *iconic*. your argument that winning more automatically makes Dadeaux more iconic doesn't even touch on the idea of what makes an icon. who's more iconic, bill russell or michael jordan? mark messier or wayne gretzky? is terry bradshaw more iconic than every qb besides joe montana and tom brady? no. because winning the most does not equate to being "most iconic". augie invented one program which to this day is a national powerhouse, then took over for a legendary coach at a legendary program and went and won multiple titles there. that's why he's the most iconic coach in cws history, even if he's not the winningest.

I don’t necessarily disagree.  I never opined on who I thought was most iconic.   My responses here are directed at individuals that are using arguments that suggest Augie is a better coach (not more iconic) than Rod, and that includes post 79.  Because he is not better than Rod, and it’s frankly indisputable.  

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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17 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

The only thing that's indisputable is that you two could ruin a wet dream

and what exactly did i do to ruin anything in here? you're in here starting shit with derka and rex kramer, without even touching on the thread subject. how would you describe that, genius?

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Goo Punch

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nobody beats lsu baseball fans in matters like this. i remember going to the cws in 04 and i think lsu went 0-2 and their fans were still out there en masse every day partying and tailgating. they love them some baseball. 

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HornStar

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1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

nobody beats lsu baseball fans in matters like this. i remember going to the cws in 04 and i think lsu went 0-2 and their fans were still out there en masse every day partying and tailgating. they love them some baseball. 

It's amazing what happens when you have a huge, engaged fan base, none of whom have jobs.

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