4 University of Idaho students killed in home - Suspect in Custody

[scottsins 1967]

That’s an odd narrative. So didn’t call the police until several hours later!? Like after 10:00am? That makes no sense. 
 
His blood at the scene and possibly their DNA in his car would be the best evidence. I imagine if he’s pleading NG that he’ll try to explain that away by saying he was a guest at the house that night and fled for his life? Cuz there would be no other way to explain his blood there and their blood or DNA in his car. 
 
I know we have all seen the still pictures LE showed of the car at various points around Moscow (after the crime has taken place) I wonder when his car arrived in Moscow. No doubt they have that footage from their thousands of hours of camera stuff. I wonder how long he was lying in wait for his moment to strike? 

Stop all of the speculation based on him pleading not guilty at this point. What do you expect them to do? Just say “awwww….looks like you got me! Send me to prison for life! No use in trying at all !”

Even those who eventually plead guilty to some sort of deal often begin with a plea of not guilty.

[scottsins 1967]

Ah yes California. The state that released the Dating Game killer guy…and multiple other assholes in the name of rehabilitation. I don’t think that Idaho acknowledges insanity defense!? I’m guessing if he hadn’t left the sheath behind who knows what he will try to claim. Clearly his family and sisters are snowed by their belief that he’s just a vegan virgin loner with OCD not a killer. 

The post you are replying to is speaking to mental competency, not an insanity defense, which are two totally separate different things with different meanings.

[Nicole44 22061]

1 minute ago, scottsins said:

Stop all of the speculation based on him pleading not guilty at this point. What do you expect them to do? Just say “awwww….looks like you got me! Send me to prison for life! No use in trying at all !”

Even those who eventually plead guilty to some sort of deal often begin with a plea of not guilty.

I can speculate all I want. There is a gag order and no more information is going to come out unless he eventually pleads guilty and gives a full confession BTK did in court. He has a very competent PD who has made statements saying they will fight this. She hired investigators who have already been to and photographed the crime scene. It’s not unreasonable to assume this guy will mount a defense because there are a lot of “suspects” a defense atty can point out to drum up reasonable doubt with a jury. Or he could plead NG. I find all this fascinating. Either way, if he’s the perp he’s a POS who can’t die screaming soon enough. I doubt getting caught was part of his master plan and based on statements from his family (seem to believe he’s not the bad guy) I’m guessing he’ll fight.

anyway I don’t make a habit of telling other posters how and when to post. It happens to me a lot. But hey whatever. 

[Nicole44 22061]

Her parents saying they’d wish their daughter and other victims could have life in prison because at least they’d be alive and they could talk to them is so sad. At least they’d be breathing. They’d take that if they could…having their own kids have life in prison and be able to switch places with the unsub.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Nicole44

[scottsins 1967]

I can speculate all I want. There is a gag order and no more information is going to come out unless he eventually pleads guilty and gives a full confession BTK did in court. He has a very competent PD who has made statements saying they will fight this. She hired investigators who have already been to and photographed the crime scene. It’s not unreasonable to assume this guy will mount a defense because there are a lot of “suspects” a defense atty can point out to drum up reasonable doubt with a jury. Or he could plead NG. I find all this fascinating. Either way, if he’s the perp he’s a POS who can’t die screaming soon enough. I doubt getting caught was part of his master plan and based on statements from his family (seem to believe he’s not the bad guy) I’m guessing he’ll fight.
anyway I don’t make a habit of telling other posters how and when to post. It happens to me a lot. But hey whatever. 

All I meant was that it seemed like you were really hung up on the fact that he has pled NG at this point, when in reality, it is the rule and not the exception. It does not mean that his team has anything resembling a plausible defense in mind at this point.

I wasn’t literally commanding you to do anything. It’s a message board. We are assholes.

[Nicole44 22061]

1 minute ago, scottsins said:

All I meant was that it seemed like you were really hung up on the fact that he has pled NG at this point, when in reality, it is the rule and not the exception. It does not mean that his team has anything resembling a plausible defense in mind at this point.

I wasn’t literally commanding you to do anything. It’s a message board. We are assholes.

I just want as rock solid of a case as they can put together. Juries can be dumb. I hope if he mounts a defense it fails if he’s the perp. Thanks! 

[0xdeadbeef 1651]

11 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Why do criminals take cell phones to crime scenes???

Google Maps.  Can't get there without it.

[Nicole44 22061]

Twitter and other “sleuthing” sites are convinced that the surviving roomie DM who saw the perp was in concert with him. That she helped. I don’t want to believe that’s true but the hours that went by before police were called is something that I would assume will be addressed at trial. Anyway the speculation that LE waited so long to arrest BK was bc they were waiting to see if he communicated with anyone else that may have helped him. It’s horrible all around to watch the roomie be slandered all over the place. If she just froze and holed up in her room without access to a phone and was freaked out and scared…she’s a victim too and suffering from survivor’s guilt among a host of other things. SM can be so cruel. I would imagine if anyone else is involved they’ll be charged as well…I just feel bad for DM if she had nothing to do with any of it. Damn…

[shnsajax 3591]

My next door neighbors sons goes to U of I and I have heard nothing of the sorts. His best friend was in the same frat as Ethan Chapin, just cant imagine that person being involved. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

I just want as rock solid of a case as they can put together. Juries can be dumb. I hope if he mounts a defense it fails if he’s the perp. Thanks! 

I have no real dislike for you as a poster, but you can go off the rails in murder cases.

[flatdawgs 1278]

1 hour ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Google Maps.  Can't get there without it.

Well, yeah, the first 11 times.  /no aggy 

[LTtxfan 49245]

3 hours ago, MrBig said:

We know how the investigation went. My question is that if there was no knife sheath with the DNA, would this investigation be strong enough for an arrest based on just the car video surveillance & cell tower records alone without physical evidence tying him to the crime scene?

They most likely have other physical evidence of BK from the scene -- LE just didn't need to mention those facts in today's arrest documents since they already had BK's DNA evidence from the sheath.

[cmontexas 3272]

As someone who has lived in a party house like that, there are plenty of reasonable explanations for why the roommate that woke up didnt call police. Even though shit had obviously gone down in the house, its perfectly logical for someone to shut the door and say NMP. She had no way to know or expect that everyone else in the house was dead, even if she thought they got robbed.

Interesting reading the affidavit that Kohlberger was stopped by police on August 21 at 1137 and his cell phone shows him at the King Rd house until 1135.

[LTtxfan 49245]

2 minutes ago, cmontexas said:

Interesting reading the affidavit that Kohlberger was stopped by police on August 21 at 1137 and his cell phone shows him at the King Rd house until 1135.

I'm curious how accurate the cell tower info is at identifying the exact location of of his cellphone??  

Defense may argue that BK was in the area close by, but not near the King Rd house. 

On one video today, they mentioned there is shopping and businesses nearby the King Rd house (I think they said within a mile or so)

[LTtxfan 49245]

10 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Soon we will see timeline charts of BK's movements/locations just prior to murder and then for next 24/48hrs after the murder...

 

Idaho Murders: complete timeline of events | LiveNOW from FOX

[Nicole44 22061]

4 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

I'm curious how accurate the cell tower info is at identifying the exact location of of his cellphone??  

Defense may argue that BK was in the area close by, but not near the King Rd house. 

On one video today, they mentioned there is shopping and businesses nearby the King Rd house (I think they said within a mile or so)

What’s interesting is that the Moscow LE and Idaho LE had the advantage of the FBI’s tools to track stuff. Far more advanced than what a local PD would get. I watched a program within the last three years and they can isolate all the phones say on a given street/block. See which ones are stagnant and which ones are moving. It’s incredible that the perp was there in June and going up through and just a day after the killings. They also paired that with all the camera stuff and from CCTV which I understand areas around Moscow have. He may have thought he was being clever…and maybe he is when it comes to a potential defense. 
 

I would also imagine that if he had help he would have communicated with this person in some way (many people on SM sites still believe that one of the surviving roommates was involved and now that the PCA came out yesterday feel even more emboldened to accuse DM as she was awake and saw the perp and took no further action other than to lock herself in her room.) that’s also complicated by the fact that the identity of the 911 caller hasn’t been released and why it was reported as an unconscious person. 

[Deej 76830]

7 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I have no real dislike for you as a poster, but you can go off the rails in murder cases.

Surly's own Nancy Grace. 

[Nicole44 22061]

This case in some ways reminds me of the Napa Valley Halloween murders in 2004. 
 

The survivor Lauren was asleep in the downstairs bedroom and her two roommates Adrianne and Leslie had two bedrooms upstairs. Leslie had a BF that had spent the night a few nights prior. Lauren wakes up around 1:30 am bc the security light near the garage went on and woke her dog who was in her bedroom. She tries to go back to sleep and hears someone enter the house but thought it might be Leslie’s BF. Then she hears screaming and opens her door to see the killer run down the stairs. She panics and runs outside to the backyard and can hear the killer fumbling around with the kitchen blinds and eventually leave thru that window.

she goes back inside and tries to call 911 from the landline but it’s dead and then hears Adriane pleading for help. Goes upstairs to find Leslie in a pool of blood stabbed to death and Adriane crouched by her bed but dying from her wounds and bleeding out. She grabs Adriane’s cell phone and calls 911. That call later died so she ran to her car to call 911 again. 
 

Turns out the killer was known to all three roommates. Adriane’s friend Lily was engaged to him but they had broken up prior to Halloween. He blamed Adriane for the breakup. He was caught from DNA he left on Camel Turkish Gold cigarettes outside the house while he waited to make his move. It took a year to catch him because of the 1200 people police swabbed in their investigation they never thought to swab him for whatever reason. It was only when police mentioned that the killer might smoke that Lauren thought of him. 
 

Anyway somewhat similar in terms of the stalking and stabbing and multiple roommates in different rooms and one being targeted. He likely didn’t know Lauren’s room was downstairs as he hadn’t been in the house much. Was after Adriane but entered Leslie’s room first and started stabbing and when Adriane came to her friend’s aid he stabbed her. Left his DNA in the house and on cigarettes outside the house. 
 

In light of that story would like to know more about what DM saw, why she just merely locked her door and did nothing for hours. By her own account she was frozen in fear and merely heard heavy sounds and crying and the perp speaking. I’m just baffled as to why nothing happen for hours…I’m not accusing the roommate it’s just extremely odd. I’m sure we will learn more but by the roomie’s own statements she was frozen in shock when she saw the perp and he walked right past her and then closed her door and locked it and then what…? Nothing for like 6-7 hours plus? 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Nicole44

[Pato del Muerto 52522]

When is your Netflix special?

[smuggs 9353]

11 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Her parents saying they’d wish their daughter and other victims could have life in prison because at least they’d be alive and they could talk to them is so sad. At least they’d be breathing. They’d take that if they could…having their own kids have life in prison and be able to switch places with the unsub.

Have these two issued an apology to the Moscow PD yet? They've been on the cable news circuit since day one bashing the department, calling them cowards, screaming for lawsuits against the detectives to release all evidence and to be held personally liable for dereliction of duty, etc. As far as I know the parents of the other 3 victims stayed fairly tight-lipped throughout. I believe Maddie Mogen's parents actually praised the department's work on the case.

I can't imagine the mental anguish of losing my child to a murderer. And yeah the Moscow PD's messaging in the early stages was confusing at best. But now we know that the cops had eyes on this seemingly random motherfucker less than 2 calendar weeks after the murders, and through great detective work have built what appears to be a solid and damning case against him with a mountain of collected evidence.

I don't know, as a man I think this father should own up to his emotions and at least address some of the real heated shit he's been publicly spewing at these investigators over the last several weeks.

 

 

Edit - From the same interview. "I kind of apologize?"

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by smuggs

[Nicole44 22061]

2 minutes ago, smuggs said:

Have these two issued an apology to the Moscow PD yet? They've been on the cable news circuit since day one bashing the department, calling them cowards, screaming for lawsuits against the detectives to release all evidence and to be held personally liable for dereliction of duty, etc. As far as I know the parents of the other 3 victims stayed fairly tight-lipped throughout. I believe Maddie Mogen's parents actually praised the department's work on the case.

I can't imagine the mental anguish of losing my child to a murderer. And yeah the Moscow PD's messaging in the early stages was confusing at best. But now we know that the cops had eyes on this seemingly random motherfucker less than 2 calendar weeks after the murders, and through great detective work have built what appears to be a solid and damning case against him with a mountain of collected evidence.

I don't know, as a man I think this father should own up to his emotions and at least address some of the real heated shit he's been publicly spewing at these investigators over the last several weeks.

I agree. The Kaylee’s father has been nothing short of a handful. I wonder though if all his public stuff calling the Pad incompetent and such actually helped (in so far as having the killer think they weren’t even close to catching him.) I can’t imagine what he’s going through. He’s a victim too. I try to remember that. I’m no death penalty fan (no CR) but I have nothing against any of the families wanting it for BK. I wouldn’t care if he was put to death. He can’t be rehabilitated. No therapy or pill will fix it (I wouldn’t be shocked to learn he probably had had therapy and counseling and shit for years.) about all we can do is study him but he’d have to be a willing participant. I just hope that the case is a winnable one. That there are no other people involved and that if there are they will be arrested and charged. If BK is guilty I could care less if he suffers every hour every day for the rest of his miserable life. But yeah, the dad was and still is talking way too much. At this point it’s not helpful now that there’s been an arrest. Dad truly believes it was his daughter who was stalked and targeted and that she suffered more sever wounds than the other victims. He’s not going away…hopefully it won’t harm the case or cast aspersions anywhere else. Homicide detectives are used to dealing with parents like him (maybe not such a high profile case or media appearances) but it goes with the territory. Imagine if it took a year to arrest a suspect.

[Pato del Muerto 52522]

10 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Her parents saying they’d wish their daughter and other victims could have life in prison because at least they’d be alive and they could talk to them is so sad. At least they’d be breathing. They’d take that if they could…having their own kids have life in prison and be able to switch places with the unsub.

Serious question, maybe dumb- is that a product placement advertising hat he’s wearing?  

[jdhorn92 1552]

33 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Serious question, maybe dumb- is that a product placement advertising hat he’s wearing?  

IIRC, Hex is like REI.  Gear, backpacks, tack etc..

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by jdhorn92

[TornACL 7698]

1 hour ago, smuggs said:

 

 

To each their own, but I find it really scuzzy when families of victims spend an extended period of time on the bullshit cable news TV circuit.

If I or my family were a victim of a crime or other natural disaster/tragedy, my answer to all these cable vultures would be FUCK OFF.

[statsman 5472]

21 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Why do criminals take cell phones to crime scenes???

Maybe they have to snipe an eBay auction?

[HamsterHookah 112]

8 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

I'm curious how accurate the cell tower info is at identifying the exact location of of his cellphone??  

Defense may argue that BK was in the area close by, but not near the King Rd house. 

On one video today, they mentioned there is shopping and businesses nearby the King Rd house (I think they said within a mile or so)

Wasn't that a big part of the Serial Adan Syned guy's case (who just got exonerated)? Cell phone pings and the accuracy or geofencing accuracy?

That's an interesting point regardless.

[LTtxfan 49245]

Another timeline video if you're interested

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by LTtxfan
messed up

[jdhorn92 1552]

26 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Wasn't that a big part of the Serial Adan Syned guy's case (who just got exonerated)? Cell phone pings and the accuracy or geofencing accuracy?

That's an interesting point regardless.

That, and a classmate placed him in the library about the time he was thought to have been killing/hiding the body or with Jay. The details are fuzzy, but i think the classmate testimony got the process going. @Nicole44 will know.

Edited January 6, 2023 by jdhorn92

[Da Fino 2783]

13 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

“Wait - you left your glasses?….. I mean the K-Bar?

 

( I just realized that 99% of this board is probably too young to understand this reference.   There is a really good movie called Compulsion about the Leopold and Loeb trial of the century. you likely never heard of that either. It’s worth a look if you ever find it.) 

This little inclusion just cost me two hours of work due to reading about Leopold and Loeb, which then caused a wikipedia wormhole into the murder of Stanford White by Harry Thaw and then the history of the Monk Eastman Gang. 

[NorthLoop 14215]

42 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Wasn't that a big part of the Serial Adan Syned guy's case (who just got exonerated)? Cell phone pings and the accuracy or geofencing accuracy?

That's an interesting point regardless.

 

16 minutes ago, jdhorn92 said:

That, and a classmate placed him in the library about the time he was thought to have been killing/hiding the body or with Jay. The details are fuzzy, but i think the classmate testimony got the process going. @Nicole44 will know.

Also I'm sure cell tower ping coverage is a bit better now than 20 years ago 

[OU Sucks 8866]

4 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

In light of that story would like to know more about what DM saw, why she just merely locked her door and did nothing for hours. By her own account she was frozen in fear and merely heard heavy sounds and crying and the perp speaking. I’m just baffled as to why nothing happen for hours…I’m not accusing the roommate it’s just extremely odd. I’m sure we will learn more but by the roomie’s own statements she was frozen in shock when she saw the perp and he walked right past her and then closed her door and locked it and then what…? Nothing for like 6-7 hours plus? 

If you already know that 4 people were stabbed to death, it would be odd behavior, but this is a girl who lives in a college party house, was probably drunk and had been asleep/tired or just woke up from sleep.  Loud noises, crying, talking and random people in the house late at night wouldn't be out of the ordinary.  She might have sensed something was off, but was more annoyed people woke her up.  She locks the door because the guy she sees looks a bit creepy, but doesn't think much more of it and goes back to bed.  Unless she saw him with knife in hand, dripping blood, he saw her and they winked at each other, I don't see this as anything other than a girl who was out of it, had no idea what transpired and just wanted to go back to bed.  If she was in on it, there'd be no reason for her to lock her door.  Of course the sleuthing sites are going to try to continue "investigating", because they were completely wrong about everything and if it's a solved case, they have nothing to talk about.

Edited January 6, 2023 by OU Sucks

[Pato del Muerto 52522]

Can you or she prove she locked her door?????!!!!!

[jdhorn92 1552]

11 hours ago, cmontexas said:

As someone who has lived in a party house like that, there are plenty of reasonable explanations for why the roommate that woke up didnt call police. Even though shit had obviously gone down in the house, its perfectly logical for someone to shut the door and say NMP. She had no way to know or expect that everyone else in the house was dead, even if she thought they got robbed.

Interesting reading the affidavit that Kohlberger was stopped by police on August 21 at 1137 and his cell phone shows him at the King Rd house until 1135.

Totally plausible, couldnt agree more.  I too lived in a party house.  Me and a couple HS buddies right after college. An Aggie, a Poke and Longhorn, Imagine that, ha!  Sounds like the start of a joke.  One of my buddies was at UTSW med school (one of smartest fuckers I ever knew), another the F&B manager at Bent Tree and I worked in Finance.  We had this house right off Greenville Ave in Dallas near the entrance to White Rock bike trail.  We went hard in those early 20's years, girls in and out, buddies crashing on the couch.  Poker mid-week, pool table in the garage, never locked our door, total animal house shit .  Lot of shenanigans going on late night that would have/should have raised a red flag, but you take a lot for granted when you're young and life is easy.

[pops 7002]

Random question. We have the dude making a dozen trips to the house starting last June. Were the girls living there over the summer?   Did they live in the house last school year?   Just part of the timeline that is kind of weird. 

[FartingMonk 3608]

Don't worry Nicole has not posted how she is a quarter sorority or half Idaho on her great grandmas side.  And most of all she hasn't said fuck Brian serial killer yet.  She is still fucking China

[Nicole44 22061]

17 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Don't worry Nicole has not posted how she is a quarter sorority or half Idaho on her great grandmas side.  And most of all she hasn't said fuck Brian serial killer yet.  She is still fucking China

Lmao! 

[4th and 5 4914]

DNA was found on button of snap on sheath of the Kabar.

Safe to assume he opened the snap multiple times before committing this crime

 

[4th and 5 4914]

Also, that is a $140 knife, I'm thinking there's a chance he would not have thrown it away

[ClubWhatever 12144]

10 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

Also, that is a $140 knife, I'm thinking there's a chance he would not have thrown it away

It will get plowed up by a combine this spring in one of the fields along the U shaped long cut he took on the way home

[ChickenSandwich 9843]

1 hour ago, 4th and 5 said:

DNA was found on button of snap on sheath of the Kabar.

Safe to assume he opened the snap multiple times before committing this crime

 

have they said if the found blood on the button?  Or was it sweat.  Seems odd to have a blood spot there randomly.  

[pops 7002]

13 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

have they said if the found blood on the button?  Or was it sweat.  Seems odd to have a blood spot there randomly.  

Look up touch DNA. They are tracking skin cells now. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2678]

Touch DNA is a lot less valuable and reliable for identifying a particular person than blood, semen, etc. A good defense attorney can make some hay out of it if it's only touch DNA.

[Deej 76830]

1 minute ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

Touch DNA is a lot less valuable and reliable for identifying a particular person than blood, semen, etc. A good defense attorney can make some hay out of it if it's only touch DNA.

[pops 7002]

18 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

Touch DNA is a lot less valuable and reliable for identifying a particular person than blood, semen, etc. A good defense attorney can make some hay out of it if it's only touch DNA.

I dont disagree, but in this instance with the knife sheath in the house that's pretty tough for him. Had he ever had a reason to be there or at some place that sells those knives then it could be open to attack. 

[pops 7002]

Honestly,  at the end of the day this cat is either dead or in jail for the rest of his life or dead. If he gets acquitted,  that Gonsalves dad will hunt him down and kill him. Guilty or not. 

[Dbeasy 15068]

19 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I have no real dislike for you as a poster, but you can go off the rails in murder cases.

Why are you giving her permission to go off the rails?

[DixonHur 11338]

Just his actions at his parents' house scream he's guilty.  Who takes their parents' trash out wearing surgical gloves and then puts it in the neighbor's bin?

[conVINCEd 21469]

4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Why are you giving her permission to go off the rails?

Is an observation the same as permission?  If this thing actually goes to trial, we’re gonna get the full Nicole treatment, nothing you or I post on this thread will change that.

[DixonHur 11338]

Moving out the mattresses today.  You can see the blood stains through the white covering.  Spoilered for gruesomeness

Spoiler

  

[NorthLoop 14215]

1 hour ago, pops said:

Honestly,  at the end of the day this cat is either dead or in jail for the rest of his life or dead. If he gets acquitted,  that Gonsalves dad will hunt him down and kill him. Guilty or not. 

So this is probably a topic better suited for it's own thread, but why don't we see this more often? I'm talking about murderers who get off on technicalities and whatnot - not getting taken out later by the victim's dad or close relative. I feel like if someone killed my kid I would be hellbent on killing that fucker if they got off. Maybe the loss of their kid just takes the fire out of them or something, or they realize they have more to live for rather than spending time in prison. I dunno. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by NorthLoop