Depression, OCD, and whatever else ails you between the ears

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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Well crap man, some of this thread makes me feel lucky to just have ass cancer.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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I've been doing my reading on recovery from eating disorders, with special emphasis on the reasons for failure (the vast majority of people never fully recover). Looks to me like this really is an example of an alien thought pattern taking hold in a person's mind. Call it a demon, call it a dementor, call it whatever you want to, but it's like someone else is in control of her thoughts. I told her last night during visiting hours that I am just now beginning to understand how I need to deal with her. Yes, I'm going to be paying minute attention to detail when it comes to her nutritional intake when she gets home, but more than that, I'm going to have a running argument with that thought pattern she is stuck in that tells her that weighing over 100 pounds makes her "fat". Jesus, she's got a BMI of 16. The "normal" weight at her height doesn't even show up on the chart until 18. No one who is scientifically categorized as "emaciated" is fat. I told her in as calm a manner as I could, when she said "I'll take vitamins, but I am not going to get fat!" that I love her and respect her, but that I will argue with her for as long as it takes to win. I'm guessing that it's going to be a long time.

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Honestly, it's not about comparisons to other girls. She thinks they're all thinner than they really are. It's one of the tricks of the trade I'm going to use, actually, is showing her pictures of people and asking her to guess their weight. I then get to show her how bad she is at making estimates.

Same thing with food; she undercounts the calories that other people take in, and overcounts the calories that she takes in. A 250 calorie muffin is a 750 calorie muffin if she's the one eating it, and only a 150 calorie muffin if one of her friends eats it. It's enough to drive you mad, really. Her perception of reality is just fine when it comes to literally anything other than her weight.

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Yeah the distorted body image and associated distortions seem to be the crux of the deal. There seem to be some parallels to the distorted thoughts addicts have.

Best of luck to you and her.

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Therein lies some of the good news. She and I have talked about it, and while she's not ready to give up her addiction to these thoughts, she has admitted that it's an addiction, and that it is very much like the addiction to alcohol that I had to deal with (and which I suspect was probably the progenitor of all her mess, if I'm being honest). There's unquestionably still a long slog ahead, but I flatter myself that we've already toppled the hardest task, because the number of people who never admit that it's an addiction is fairly overwhelming. And she just might take my advice, since she's seen me conquer that particular battle on a regular basis.

I'm grateful for this thread on a regular basis, actually. It's a nice touchstone in the middle of the day, if I hit one of those emotional valleys where it's hard to stay focused.

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Yesterday was our 25th wedding anniversary. Held a brunch with a bunch of friends; felt good. Mimosas, breakfast tacos, and a good turnout in the garden can do that.

Was weird celebrating it while our daughter is in the hosptial, though. Probably for the best, since there was more food on hand than she would have been able to tolerate seeing. She's moving to an out-patient basis tomorrow; feel kinda guilty about how much like a vacation it has seemed, with her tension taken out of the house for a week. Not sure what we're getting back, but it's got to be done.

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Brutha, if you ever need someone to talk to about this, get in touch with me. I pretty much know all of the reputable doctors and counselors in Dallas and Houston who specialize in eating disorders. I can so relate to each and every point you have mentioned.

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Wildest damned month I remember spending in a while.

Just an update, for those who are curious. Our daughter had withdrawn from high school as a junior, which we went along with because she was on the verge of major depression at that point, and we were desperate to just keep her alive.

Fast forward a year, she still hadn't completed the GED like she'd told us she was going to, and she has her major depressive episode that we finally hospitalized her for.

Well, she's out now, and in a special high school campus CSISD opened specifically for people who are college track but do not want the distractions of "the big campus" with all the extracurriculars and such. She had a choice of regular classes, or self-paced computer classes, and based on her areas of proficiency and interest, she chose a blend of the two, which means she will graduate in May and be fully qualified to go to the college of her choice. Her parents, by the way, are going to have a heavy influence on that choice.

We're at something of a crossroads, personally, frankly. We'd be more than happy retiring where we are and being buried in the yard. But College Station is NOT the town for a sensitive artistic soul to find her way in.

So... Mrs. Ponderer and I are in the process of finding like-minded individuals with whom to buy up 50 or so acres of land in Eastern Oregon or Washington to form an "intentional living" community, where we'll do pretty much what we do here, only in close proximity to colleges where "art" means something more than just pictures of Kyle field. I'm going to consider this whole experience to be the best thing that could possibly have happened, in true Taoist fashion. I don't think there is any other way to look at it that wouldn't simply drive me mad. Easy choice.

 

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Are you asking us to join your cult??

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Only if you meet certain prequalifications. A strong desire to have the curtains closed when naked would be one of those requirements.

We've actually already got a couple of families signed on, and we're making a good go at ethnic, religious, political, and educational diversity even with that small sample size. All we have to do now is go slow and make sure we're financially responsible crazy fools.

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Best of luck to you and your daughter. You seem sufficiently wise and aware that this is probably thought through and in any event what you may have done anyway. Nonetheless, I feel duty-bound to remind you to carefully consider making huge life changes to "accommodate" your daughters's travails.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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Just got back from a week long Peruvian Ayahuasca journey. What an experience. Still processing what happened and it has been a little hectic coming back to a flooded truck at the Houston airport 4 days after I was scheduled to arrive back in Houston. However, I am convinced that Ayahuasca is the most effective and maybe only way to drill down and eliminate the effects of deep seeded trauma that you know of and also things you may not even realize you have, even after extensive testing and a year + of psychotherapy therapy. 

I became good friends with a clinical psychologist from Sydney who was back for his third journey. He put it best. Childhood trauma effects the way you see and experience the world in a negative way. Psychotherapy helps you identify this trauma and through extensive therapy you can work on identifying your distorted thinking and work to change it. But you will likely still see the world in that same manner but choose to override your programming to make your life better. 

Ayahuasca actually changes your worldview without you even realizing it, so there is no processing or decision making, you just see the world and experience it in a healthy way. This is the experience he had and he came back to keep drilling deeper. Over the coming months I hope to experience the same, time will tell. I do know that you can't walk away from that experience not being changed. There is a whole spiritual world out there that western cultural has stamped out of us (I think a lot has been occult-ed away intentionally by the powers that be...). 

Btw I had never done any psychedelic (unless you consider weed a psychedelic) before this experience and was not a religious or woo-woo spiritual person besides basically believing that there was something after this world, but I was not sure what. After this experience you cannot help but becoming much more spiritual and have no doubt there is something else beyond this realm (although I still don't know what)... but am humbled by how little I know about my current world and whatever else there is. 

Ayahuasca is not a "fun" experience. Every ceremony (we did 5) was the scariest thing I had every done. It rips you open emotionally and each experience is totally different than the last, so you are never comfortable or in control... the key is apparently to fully trust and let the "medicine" do its thing... I still had not done this after 5 ceremonies. This is why a lot of people go back multiple times. There was a guy in our group of 30 that left after the first ceremony. He was a cocksure body builder type. My Australian friend figured he would have a hard time. Ayahuasca strips your ego away and the larger ego you have the harder it is. 

Beyond the Ayahuasca experience, the people there were maybe the best part. I figured it would be mostly Americans, wrong. There were probably 6 Americans, 8 Russians, 3 Canadians, 2 Australians, 3 from the UK, and 4 from EU countries. Being around such diverse people that all are there to work on things in their lives and who had to make major effort and monetary sacrifices just to get to this remote place in the Peruvian Amazon was awesome. 

I apologize, this post has gotten longer than I wanted, but I will say that don't do Ayahuasca unless you are fully committed. Most people say they are "called" to do it and I would kind of agree. I heard about it 6 years ago on the Joe Rogan Experience and thought that is something I wanted to do one day. My issues I have dealt with over the last 1.5 years just pushed me over the edge. It is just too damn scary and hard for half-measures. Also, there are a lot of hucksters out there that claim they are "Shamans" but are not. And this realm you have access to with these intense psychedelics is serious business (other people I had met that had done a lot of other psychedelics said they would never do any others again without supervision and guidance, after doing Ayahuasca). I would honestly only ever do it with the lodge I went to. They were absolutely professional in every way. PM me for more information.

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Yeah, its a DMT experience. The Ayahuasca vine actually doesn't contain DMT it is a MAOI inhibitor. Our stomachs produce an enzyme that destroys DMT right away, so you would feel no effects without the MAOI inhibitor. The DMT actually comes from another plant, chacruna leaves. You cook them together and you have a disgusting tasting cocktail of DMT that you can absorb. The only other way to do DMT is to smoke it. Smoking it apparently you only have a few minute trip. Our Ayahuasca ceremonies lasted 3 intense hours and then an hour "landing" where they turned back on some lights and played some peaceful music and stuff. 

Everyone experiences it different and all 5 trips for me were different. Ayahuasca (the actual vine) is a purgative, so you normally experience some kind of purging. Most people hear about the puking or rocket diarrhea but I had neither. Other types of purging are laughing, yawning, crying, and getting really hot or cold. 

Most nights it took 30 minutes for me to start feeling something. I would usually first see all kinds of geometric figures spinning all around me. This was with my eyes closed (think rubbing your eyes closed 100X). If I opened my eyes usually the geometric figures would go away, but the room was often distorted in some way. The music and chants/signing (called "icaros") the Shamans did would cause me to see vibrations in the air, almost like I was seeing the sound waves. 

Then I would usually start seeing visions. The first night it was hardcore stuff. Seeing myself as child being scared. Seeing myself as a tiny baby not being loved. And then this intense feeling of being alone. I then opened my eyes because I was so alone I just wanted to see other next to me but when I did I literally saw all the mats with people on them around me move away to where I could barely see them. I then started crying a lot (which is something I simply can't do, even if there have been times when I probably needed a good cry). I wasn't sobbing, just tears streaming down my face. I hallucinated that my shirt was soaking wet from all the tears... it wasn't, but it sure felt like it. It was more intense than 1.5 years of psychotherapy sessions combined. The next day I just felt split open. That second night I cut back the dose some because I just couldn't do that again and needed time to process. It was a much chiller experience, but probably not as productive. I went there to try and dig down into a lot of childhood shit and it obviously went straight there the first night. You try and set intentions for your trip and each ceremony. Sometimes your experience seems to match your intentions, sometimes it will throw you curve balls. 

The third night I went back up in dose. Had another really intense experience and then shit flipped and it was the best feeling of my life. Just euphoric and full of love that I have never felt nor knew existed in life. I have many journal pages filled with everything that happened. Could probably write a few thousand words on each night. 

If you just want a trip I would say find some DMT to smoke or do some shrooms. I would only do Ayahuasca if you are trying to work on stuff.

I honestly feel a little dirty trying to explain this in words, because I really can't. You are in a different world and it sure as hell doesn't just feel like a total figment of your imagination.

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I think this is the most overlooked and disregarded part of the pharmaceutical world. I'm going to lump Ayahuasca into that catchall for lack of a better term. 
The part about the tearing away off the ego is what takes years sometimes in standard therapy. We are by default protective of our wounds, even to the point of blocking it out. The heavier psychedelics won't let you hide from yourself. You get a drilled down look at you. That can be scary. 

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I agree. The clinical psychologist from Sydney that I referenced in my first post said that after his first trip down to Peru he had a bit of a crisis of conscience when it came to his practice. He saw people work through more things in a week than he could do with them in 3 years. Also, he is convinced that there are areas Ayahuasca reaches that the current western model simply can't. 

It is a real shame all these "medicinal" psychedelics are schedule one in the states. Ram Dass and Timothy Leary were on the right track at Harvard in the 60's but once LSD and the like started being abused recreationally Team America was for sure going to crack down. Under controlled and safe environments with a professional this could bring a lot of profound results for those suffering for a wide range of mental 

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Yeah, I have had the same thought. Being in the middle of the amazonian rain-forest and the shamans really made a huge impact on the experience. It was amazing how the energy of the room could be dialed up and down by the shamans. Typically, everyone purged all at the same time and then there was silence. 

I guess my thought is that something is better than nothing and that the mental health field has hopefully grown some since those rather harsh experiments. According to my psychologist friend I met there, there have been some recent double-blind studies with Ayahuasca that show favorable results for treating depression. One group was given Aya and the other a nasty tasting dark liquid. 

So much of my experience was spiritual, which I doubt you would get in a laboratory setting. At least not to the same extent.

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by cactusflinthead

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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Losing my mutt of 16 years hasn't been easy. No kids or wife/gf so she was my only companion. Thought I was doing pretty well until I got a sympathy card from the vet, which I appreciated, but man did it bring back the grief. I guess it wasn't really gone. It's been 9 days, and I should be getting her remains sometime this week.

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There are no mutts, only family. I'm sorry brother.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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So later this week I'm going to see my PCP and the thought occurred to me that maybe I need to think about an antidepressant.

All sorts of stuff has been hitting me at once - and I'm not known for dealing well with things, hell, I'm a recovered alcoholic and I have to attend a lot of meetings and I spend a lot of time working with the "new guys" in order to preserve my sobriety.

It's been 6 years since I last took any antidepressants, and I've been maintaining pretty well. . .but for some reason lately I've just been in a funk. Ironically, I'm always the one that is resistant to medications, so I'm definitely going to consider it a short-term things, I'm thinking about a year or so.

Elderly parents are going through health problems and I'm having to do some estate planning stuff with them, daughter is about to graduate from HS and it's my responsibility to put her through college, my office is destroyed due to the Hurricane and won't be operational until Feb 2018 or so. . .I just feel beat down. I don't have any real anxiety, anger, or unresolved issues, I've pretty much spent the last 6 years in constant introspection and self inventory, and my participation and commitment level to my church has increased. . .I'm just not getting enjoyment, and I seem paralyzed by life at the moment. . .just dysthymia that I can't seem to shake. . .I just need some "wins"

What are the "milder" antidepressants these days? It's been years since I've taken any.

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Probably depends on what your definition of "mild" is. I've cycled through a number of them through the last five years, but my symptoms appear much more acute than what your describing. If you're looking to avoid SSRIs (like Prozac and Zoloft), you might ask about something more along the lines of Brintellix. It can cause some drowsiness, though it didn't present any of the more dramatic side effects that SSRIs presented, at least in my case.

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OK so my good friend who also cuts my hair (no homo) talked me into seeing a Psychiatrist rather than just going to my primary doc for pills. The best psychiatrist in town is private pay no insurance, and in high demand - historically, it's taken about 4 months to get in with her for an initial visit. He does her hair as well, so he called her and called in a favor and got that timetable cut to about 45 days, so I have an appointment for the middle of November.

Short term, I go to my primary doc for my annual, blood/pee test, and flu shot, and I tell him what's going on. We discuss all the different classes of antidepressants and decide on the starter dose of 150Mg of Wellbutrin XR to see if that shakes me loose from this funk in the near term. Worst case, I go to the new doc already knowing whether Wellbutrin is helping.

So here we go. First time on any psychotropic drugs since the summer of 2011.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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I'm a 27, soon to be 28 year old virgin, for no reason other than I have overwhelming anxiety about the subject. It's pathetic. It's disgusting. It's laughable. It's whatever adjective you want to use to describe it. My anxiety has been the main thing holding me back for most of my life, and a this point, it's only gotten worse. When it gets ramped up, i'm barely a fully functional human being. I start to sweat profusely, I start to stutter, I can't think clearly. I'm a reasonably good looking guy with a decent paying job, but I have absolutely no "game" and any and all attempts at flirting come off as awkward as fuck if not borderline creepy. It honestly amazes me how naturally this comes for most people. It's almost like this part of my brain doesn't even exist. And in the rare instances where i do get past that initial hurdle, that's where my anxiety will really start to ramp up. 

I've attempted to have sex 3 times, but I couldn't keep it up. I'm sure it was a combination of being afraid to perform (ie being exposed for not knowing what the fuck I'm doing), and watching porn almost every day, but at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. I haven't even kissed a girl in over two years. For most of my life I felt like my "time would come" but at this point, I just don't see it happening. I have things in my life that I don't like about myself, but the one thing that makes me want to kill myself every day is the fact that I don't think I can get past this. It's unacceptable to have no sexual experience as a 27 year old in 2017. You're expected to at the very least have an idea of what the fuck you're doing. 

For me, I almost compare it to a job application. You may be a decent candidate, but if you don't have the required amount of experience, they're just going to have to find a new candidate. There are no more entry level positions once you get past a certain age. I've gone to therapy, I've tried xanny's, nothing works. I used to be religious, but I don't believe anymore for a number of different reasons, this being one of the reasons. And just to be clear, this isn't just about losing my virginity. It's more about just having the confidence in myself to know that it's possible, as ridiculous as that sounds. The confidence in knowing that if I did ever really have a connection with a girl, I would be able to at the very least be able to meet her average sexual needs. It's also about having the confidence in knowing that I won't be alone forever, or I won't have to settle for the first reasonably attractive women that shows any type of affection towards me (i'm not sure which scenario is worse). 

Im not looking for sympathy, but I don't know where else to turn to at this point. This topic is borderline impossible to talk about with my friends because it always turns into 
"You're putting the pussy no a pedestal" or "Just be yourself man, everyone likes being around you." And jesus fucking christ, don't let this topic come up around a group of people that don't know me very well. That is grounds for dropping any and all previous conversations, focusing all your attention on me, and trying to figure out how the fuck this is even possible. And rightfully so. How the fuck is this even possible? How have I let myself get to this point? If anybody out there has a similar life experience, and things changed, how exactly did they change? How did you change? What clicked for you? I'm begging for any kind of direction, or advice, because I swear this is going to drive me to suicide. It's just a matter of time. And I've never actually admitted that to anybody before, but I had to get it off my chest.

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The truth is, the problem more than likely has nothing directly to do with sex. There has never been a single issue more prone, in all of human emotional history, to overblown obsession, than sex. 99% of the time, when we have a "problem with sex," we really have a problem with something else, that we don't want to think, talk, expostulate upon, or otherwise admit in any way, shape, or form, exists.

I recommend finding a therapist who makes you uncomfortable. If you find somebody who doesn't make you cry in every session, move on, because they aren't helping. Dive into the pain (whatever it might be about) and don't stop diving until you're sure you've emoted the fuck out of whatever that personal inner demon is.

No shame in it at all. I'm here to tell you, the more vulnerable you get on a shrink's couch, the more heroic I, personally, consider it. Go forth and fall apart, my good man.

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 I'd rather be in your shoes than mine, for what it's worth. I started messing around with girls when I was way too young and it took away from the time that I should have spent learning how to adult. I fooled around with the 15 year old cheerleader down the street when I was 12 and I thought it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. It wasn't til many decades later that I realized that episode actually harmed me.

My next statement is based on something in your post -

 

and watching porn almost every day

PIED (Porn-Induced Erectile Dysfunction) really exists and is something worth your consideration. I would imagine many shagsters have an unhealthy relationship with porn. We've got an "I'm an alcoholic" thread, but nobody has the guts to start the "I'm a Porn Addict" thread. Some of reddit's most popular subreddits are r/nofap and r/pornfree.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have waited to have sex until I was at least 18, and I would have casually dated many more women without the agenda of getting them into bed just as fast as they'd say yes. Also, alcohol = impaired decision making.

tl;dr - knock off the porn, date casually, and don't worry about sex, it'll happen when it happens. And if your wang doesn't work right, get your doc to give you some Cialis. That's the medication that makes us 45 year olds perform like we're 21.

 

Personally, alcohol has helped me relax to where keeping it up is not an issue. I don't drink often before sex but it has helped relieve the anxiety at times. It could also be something that leads to sex anyway.

Smoking weed has intensified the sensation but made me last longer. I'm not suggesting you to do drugs but I just wanted to give you a full disclosure on how it has enhanced my sex life at times. 

I also have similar feelings as you leading up to sex. Heart beating really fast, sweaty palms, stuttering, and sometimes it's hard getting erect initially because I'm so freaking nervous. 

I think for me, it is due to my wife rarely ever wanting to have sex. So when I finally do convince her i'm so anxious and excited that it can be hard to be ready. I've noticed that if you get some lube and apply liberally to your junk before you start, it'll help you penetrate even if you're not fully erect. Once you're in there I promise you that the sensation will wake that guy up and you'll be full staff in seconds.

I hate putting this out there about myself. My friends read this shit too but I don't care dude. I'm sure plenty of guys go through this and few are afraid to seek help like you're trying to do. And I hate that it has frustrated you to the point that you contemplate suicide. 

 

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That is a very brave post. I don't think you are as special as you think you are. In my experience, men that boast about sex around other men regularly ("locker room talk") tend to be the most insecure and unfulfilled in real life. You could say the same for message board assholes. Now, this is not intended to be a blanket statement so no one get their feathers ruffled. But, I'm sure everyone knows at least one dude that fits the description. Women do this as well.
Have you every tried CBT with a therapist? You may have had an experience during your development that is causing your anxiety that you need to root out. It sucks. It's hard work. It is not fun and can make it worse before it gets better. It requires homework. It requires you to be vulnerable, but I'd bet that the boogey man causing this anxiety is nothing that many other people have experienced and it not shameful. By posting this, you've shown that you have the strength to be vulnerable. Take it to the next level.
When you're comfortable in your own skin, things will happen naturally. You'll meet a woman that wants to be with you as much as you want to be with her. She will be patient with you in whatever you need and will not judge you for any perceived inadequacies. 
Be kind to yourself. You deserve it and there is a woman out there that needs you. You'll find her when the time is right. Right now, you need to take it easy on yourself and get to work.

Get out, go to some bars, get drunk a few times, go out with some friends and tell them to invite lady friends. Once you get the alcohol flowing maybe you'll be less awkward around the ladies because you're not over-thinking it. I realize that suggesting drugs and alcohol is terrible and only reveals issues with myself but I just wanted to put that out there as a suggestion for you to get your foot in the door. That doesn't mean you have to rely on these methods just like I don't have to either, but they have helped in the past.

Co-sign on the stop watching too much porn. I probably frequent porn hub every other day so i'm sure it's contributed to the problems I've experienced.

Edited April 1, 2018 by cactusflinthead

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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This is going to be a brave post to share but I'm learning to let my guard down and committed to personal development, learning from the latest shell shock event of my life. 

My best friend and love of 5 years left me in August for a MARRIED co-worker with a child out of a somewhat long-distance relationship. Women cheat for different reasons than men and she confessed she fell out of love with me in the summer, becoming emotionally available. She and this guy met in Dallas at a convention in their hotel, and she ended up spending the night with him.

She hid all of this from me and one week later, I proposed to her on our 5th Anniversary, which she happily accepted. The following week, she had an incentive trip to Spain and I had a work trip to Australia. When I returned to expense International calls, I noticed his number on her cell phone bill for a 90-minute call when she was in Spain. I got the background on him and confronted her about it, to which she confessed they were talking, but at the time was only "emotional support." I asked why she couldn't get that from me, and at that point she started growing distant.

Keeping her on the line was the hardest thing over the weeks that followed, not knowing what was going on in the background. She started acting strange, was spending nights at a girlfriend's home, and telling me she wanted me to "pursue" and "date her again." I had a series of concerts planned with dinners and knew she was moody, but I always felt I had the capacity to cheer her up at any time.

Over the week she spent at her girlfriend's home, he drove up to Dallas and they had dinner. That's when her mind was made up about continuing to see him. She responded to me by saying she needs more time apart, despite the fact we lived together and all her possessions were in my home. 

Over the week that followed, this guy's phone was discovered by his wife at home. She snapped pics of their conversations and E-mails, then reached out to me to inform me they were seeing (and $#@!ing) each other. My heart collapsed and head started ringing. I couldn't sleep and all I could think of is getting her back, or hoping she'd quickly change her mind. I had one more opportunity to confront her over all of this and she came over to cook dinner for me, confessing to everything. 

I later discovered they planned to spend ACL weekend together, and that gutted me. The guy's wife and I thought that might be our last chance to win our spouses back, and they ignored us. That weekend was her turning point, where she committed herself to him and started the motions of breaking up with me. Her narrative to me was that I didn't satisfy her, she wasn't emotionally fulfilled and she felt like a roommate with me. 

I've since been VERY introspective, identifying my flaws and times where I put my needs or work ahead of her. I treated her very well though and received many "I love yous," all through August, but the wedge was inserted in September and she fully moved out in October.

They have been together every weekend since, with him in Dallas over at her friend's place or her driving to Houston to spend in his apartment. The guy is a grade-A coward and hasn't 

The four years leading up to this were a blessing to me. I had never before enjoyed so much chemistry with a woman, someone who was so dedicated and giving to me. I believe she just snapped, felt exhausted by me in the relationship and I dragged my feet far too long to propose. She threw in the towel without telling me and walked off to the first guy to put his hands on her. 

I've been a complete mess since. The very first thing I did was find a fantastic, supportive therapist (CBT). Then I found a local Psych to start treatment with Lexapro and Wellbutrin. The meds are really helping and have eased some of my anxiety, helped retain concentration and kept me about as happy as I can be. Time alone is still rough, I'm still uncomfortable at home and have trouble sleeping. I feel an immense weight over me of guilt for failing to see the signs and failing to keep her. I just turned 39 and am a bit wary of the dating scene, as it's going to take time to find someone who could get close to the quality of relationship I had with my ex.

The worst part is I'm left with two narratives-- hers first, about how she felt unfulfilled by me, how she made herself available to someone else, and that she wishes she ended things more firmly before finding this new guy. My narrative is her communication wasn't effective enough and if she truly wanted change in me, all she had to do was break things off for 6 weeks and check back in. 

She and I still talk, but only about formalities of exchanging possessions. She's not sharing details of her affair with friends and family, and I've ratted her out to most of our closest friends, a terrible mistake on my part. I'm not even angry at her, just deeply depressed and regretful for the 5 years and future wasted. 

I'm confident this fling she has won't work out and she'll experience pain later when he goes back to his wife, but not before a tug-o-war from her, as she's risked everything for this new relationship. She will become a changed woman after the fling and has told her friends she's completely moved on from me, in just one brief month.

I'm trying to practice "no contact" through Thanksgiving to get me back on my feet. I didn't realize the "no contact period" allowed her to further put me away and explore this guy further, but my battle was already futile. As strange as all this sounds, I want her back, but only if I can restore the quality of life we once enjoyed together. I'm committing to my personality changes, identifying with women's needs and suppressing the depression and anxiety that have plagued my relationships for nearly a decade. Despite all this, I don't believe my ex will be interested in seeing my changes after this blows up in her face. She needs to deal with her feelings at some point and may be hurt, but it will be easier if she just moves on to the next guy.

The pieces I'm left with are $#@!ing daggers. It's affected my weight, my sleep, my job and quality of life. I'm trying to get myself out there to date again and can apply separation when I do meet girls, but deep inside, I don't have a heart (or $#@!) to give. My libido has been destroyed over her affair and the Lexapro. I'm still finding myself comparing girls to my ex and doubting anyone else can match the interests and mannerisms we once shared. I'm recognizing I lost my best friend AND love through this, and the whole thing is just a waste.

I hate throwing away 5 years and such chemistry over my depression, ways I didn't satisfy her, her selfish decision and all the fallout. I have to find a way to manage the guilt, and her narrative still rings far louder than my own. The Lexapro is supposed to be a 6-month treatment but unless I can find a way to confidently move on sooner, find comfort in being single again and enjoy dating QUALITY women, I'm going to be a headcase for a while. It's amazing that something like this can knock a man's confidence so low, but it probably feels worse to a guy who's spouse cheated on him for her emotional and sexual needs, where men cheat just to get a different flavor in the sack, retaining emotional connection to their wife and can return to the relationship.

Managing the pain and remorse are the most difficult things now. I'm unsure if I should ask for any different medication or just stick it out through the holidays and try to keep busy with work. I've made so many important changes for myself that I know I'll be better for the future and can more confidently break myself down in front of others. Picking up the pieces and managing contact with my ex (and our common friends) will be the most difficult tasks ahead. I still want her in my life but have to carefully navigate that course to re-gain trust. I need to show her I'm doing just fine and can hopefully demonstrate positive qualities she's been missing, then press on until her affair blows up. It's all I can do.

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Sorry to hear all that man, heartbreak sucks. Here are some things that you probably won’t believe but that are almost certainly true:

Trying to salvage any part of your relationship with this girl would be betting on extremely long odds.

You are dramatically overrating this girl and dramatically underrating yourself.

No one will be able to force you to move on, only you have the power to do that. 

My advice:

Stay on the meds and therapy until you’re sure you’re out of crisis; do what your therapist says

Exercise constantly

Eat right, avoid caffeine and alcohol (and other recreational drugs)

Do not leave any personal time open; hobbies, extra work, dating...keep busy

Many many people have been in your shoes, and the vast majority of th

em ended up better off than they were before the heartbreak. You are becoming a more complete person. Hang in there. Good luck.

 

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Man, that’s rough. You already know what the answer is: You have to move on. Ask yourself honestly “What is my ideal scenario right now?” Judging from your post, you are still in love with her. So I would take a guess that having her end things with the other guy and come running back you and begging for forgiveness to start the healing process would be your first inclination. But, would that really make you happy? Perhaps in the beginning, but there is no doubt that you will resent her for what she did and will have trust issues going forward. That’s going to do nothing except ignite arguments that will drive a further wedge in your intimacy. It is hard to change behavior and it sounds like you both have your warts with emotional considerations. Can you honestly say that you aren’t going to question every work trip or girl’s outing that comes up for the foreseeable future? The thing with cheaters is this: They always victimize themselves. They have a sense of extreme guilt and remorse for their actions but never seem to fully grasp that trust and forgiveness isn’t a timetable that they get to set. When they start to get impatient, the temptation to repeat their patterns is formed. All of those romantic scenarios that you are playing in your head if she would just come to her senses are pure fantasy. Plain and simple, the dynamic of your relationship has been irretrievably altered. The silver lining is that you didn’t have to go through the marriage process before finding out what she would have eventually done anyway.

As for you, don’t be the martyr. Everyone has the “If only I did this” or “If she would just change that” aspect of their relationship…even in solid marriages. If she was unhappy, the adult thing to do is to talk to you, attempt to salvage the relationship and then decide if it’s still worth fighting for. If not, then she needed to make a mature break. Cheating is never the correct answer. She wasn’t covering her tracks like an Indian about it either, so most likely she wanted to get caught. It was her way of emotionally detaching herself from you without having to feel the pain of being the instigator of the break-up. 

Lexapro and therapy are great aids but there are no magic pills and talking to a therapist isn’t going to change her mind in any way. The only real solution is time, which sucks. Every time you allow her to dominate your thoughts or control your actions in a vain attempt to win her back just hits the reset button on the healing. 

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go easy on yourself. you'll relapse and send her a text and then hate on yourself for doing it. don't hate yourself. you'll cry and wonder why the $#@! are you crying. don't wonder why, you know why. you think about your ex on a date, don't tell yourself not to, it happens. all the advice you'll get is great and all but the reality is when your heart is broken, it's broken. it will take time, maybe lots of it. lean into the sadness and feel it. do a self-inventory, absolutely. you do want to see how you can be better for your next person. get enough sleep, don't go on benders, hookers and blow is a bad, bad idea. exercise if you can, but in every instance where you "blow it" go easy on yourself. therapy is awesome, highly recommend it. keep at it, you'll be okay, I promise.

moving on will happen. it really will. I promise. I was married to my only love for 20 years. She stood with me for 15 as we came to terms with my identity. how it ended and what happened is not for public consumption but it destroyed me. I thought I would die. I thought I could never love someone like I loved her again. a few years have passed since that destruction and now my divorce and I can say, life goes on, and you will find your footing. the question is how kind are you going to be to yourself while you find your footing because that's where the real change happens. be good to you and you'll learn how to be good to the next her that comes into your life.

for me? I'm thrilled to be in a sustained long term relationship with someone that I love. she's amazing and she's really good for me. proof you to will move on given enough time to heal.

be kind to yourself, that's all I offer for advice.

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$#@!ing hell, Spanky... that was brutal to read but the honest truth. I still have some ideal of letting her go, finally getting over her and then taking a call from her in the future with remorse about ending things the way she did or actually waiting on my change. That's not my problem, however.

It really isn't fair that I've had to burden all the pain in her decision. The idea she wanted to get caught has merit, and fleeing to her affair partner made it far easier to get over me with minimal pain.

I'm now subtly awaiting for karma to do its thing. I have ideas how it may happen but it sucks I have to wait so long to heal and for her to experience the fallout from her decisions.

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All that bull$#@! she's feeding you about her being "unfulfilled" by you, wanting you to court her, etc., is just her putting her $#@!ty cheating garbage-person decision on you. $#@! that. She knew what she was doing. She knows she's a piece of $#@!. And she's trying to rationalize it. $#@! that. And $#@! her. 

Do not consider trying to win over someone that would cheat on you in the manner that she did. She will do it again. And she will do it to this new dude. Becuase she's the one with the problem.

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We did spend a ton of quality time together-- many vacations, concerts and adventure experiences together. We went to Cabo in the spring and enjoyed the hell out of it. Nashville in the summer was rough and I didn't realize why. Normally our trips are amazing.

She works for a fine wine distributor and occasionally gets incentive trips to tour the estates. I'm consulting to an entertainment outfit based in Australia and regularly visit for project updates. Our separate travel was just coincidental.

She and this guy met at a local annual convention and I can only imagine their conversations quickly meshed over their dissatisfaction in our relationships. I later discovered this guy has been complaining about his wife behind her back for weeks without ever confronting her. He still hasn't communicated his intentions with his wife. She and I now talk weekly and she's a pretty amazing woman.

 

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Sooooooooooo.... when're ya gonna bang this dude's wife?

I've heard a few choice ideas before, and all I can say is I'm hoping to make a friend for a long while out of this experience. She's a great girl and her husband is a piece of human garbage. He's the one I want to see $#@!ed over, but he's already done enough damage to himself along his journey. Unfortunately I have to leave it up to my ex-fiancee to discover those compromises for herself. 

My ideal is if I'm strong enough, I can retain presence in her life (we have many mutual friends) and some day soon, I'll get to hear about the fallout. It will be glorious.

 

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Sorry to hear your situation. It's clear you love(d) her, but at this point you need to recognize that she's gone and you neither want, nor need her back. That doesn't make your pain any less but hopefully can shield you from future pain related to her. She is a bad person for you and you need to remove any "fantasy" about her realizing the error of her ways or getting turned out by the scumbag and coming running back to you. Not to say y'all never had anything worthwhile, but THAT IS GONE.

None of what she did in cheating on you over an extended period of time and lying when confronted is or was your fault. Take whatever measure of solace you can in knowing that she is with a douchebag and you are no longer with a lying, cheating whore.

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At this point, I'm just content telling myself I want her back but I don't need her back. It's a really sad situation of watching someone you loved so dearly walk off for the intent of self-harm. It's all a selfish act.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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What did one codependent say to the other right after they had sex?





It was good for You, how was it for me?


What's the first thing a codependent says to his/her partner upon awakening?

How am I doing today?

BearSchlong shoots and scores

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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I've just been really dragging lately and figured I'd come over here to vent/seek advice.

I'm 47, going through a divorce to an alcoholic (bear and twice may recall my ramblings from another thread about being the SO of an alcoholic), have two teenage kids that I have half time and see plenty due to coaching their sports, taking to school, etc. Not as much as I'd like but I'm definitely involved.

I just have no real interest in getting back into the dating pool or doing much of anything. It just seems like too much effort. We separated in August of last year so I figured I'd be raring to go by now. I've had a few quick hitters since then but they were just meh. I'm very confident this is not me pining for my ex, this needed to happen and truthfully I should have and would have done it ten years ago if not for the kids.

I'm narrowing it down to some possibilities

1. Seasonal affective disorder- I'm way north and the days are short as hell. I've got my sunlight lamp on as I type this (just started today) so hopefully this helps. I imagine this is at least part of it, as I've definitely felt lower the last few weeks as the days got shorter, but doesn't explain the fact I had no desire to get out there last summer when the days are long as hell up here.

2. Low T- I had a test done at my last physical and it was in the normal ranges for my age, I forget what exactly but the doc said I don't qualify for replacement therapy. I still lift weights regularly and am probably stronger than I was most of my life except when I was really hitting the weights in my late teens. I could afford to lose 10-20 pounds to get back to my fighting weight but overall muscle amount is fine, which leads me to believe it's not low T, though I wouldn't mind getting back to the level in my 20s.

3. Just generally bored as $#@!- I retired about 2 and a half years ago. Not with "F you I'll be on the yacht" money but with enough to live a pretty comfortable middle class life. I've always been frugal and had pretty simple tastes so I figured it was time to get off the legal merry go round and spend more time with my kids who were 10 and 12 at the time. Looking back, it's pretty obvious trying to make things work with the ex was also a consideration at the time I was just too dumb to see it. Of course, with the assets cut in half I'll need to go back to work soon, and I did do some part time consulting for my ex employer last year but I'm really just not doing much of anything right now.

I think I might have said this a long time ago in this thread or a similar one, but for most my life since about age 15, my consuming interests were one or two of chasing tail, making money or raising kids. Now I'm struggling to find a reason to get moving.

Feel free to add anything I'm missing, shag. And no, MIA, I'm pretty sure I'm not gay NTTIAWWT.

 

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So last year this time thing pretty much sucked. It was a bad 4-5 yr run. On top of formative years that as I shared might not have been the healthiest. 

I honestly would never have been able to imagine how different things are today. Things aren't are perfect, Harvey did some damage and that's nowhere close to fixed. My sister is still dying, my mother is still crazy and the creditors won't stop calling. Not even on Christmas eve. But that stuff was here a year ago. And a year later so am I , still here.



All in all, things are better, I am grateful for that and those of you that listened and reached out on here. Keep hope alive, make it to tommorow, and enjoy this day and each one that follows.

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Usually pretty blue on Christmas night, but for some reason tonight I'm not as much.

For some reason tonight I'm very conscious of the fact that I am loved and I'm grateful for that. It's a good feeling. 

Be well, y'all. You are loved. Whether you know it or not.

 

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Not a big deal but my diabetic kid goes to this camp for diabetics and it’s, no $#@!, right near the top of things I’ve appreciated in my life. It’s magical for him. They got thirty kids to a cabin and do all their stuff together. One kid - a type one diabetic dealing that crap all the time - died over the holidays. Not because of diabetes but to the flu.

I’ve been alive 41 years and only read news stories about kids actually dying from the flu. My boy knows but is too young to really understand. But for that kid’s parents? I can’t even imagine. The $#@!ing flu, for a type one kid. Just the worst.

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Was an incredibly, very $#@!ty December for the most part for so many reasons. A full realization of the permanence of death. And then, this year started out horrendously bad on the business front. Was spiraling hard.

And then ... something I have been waiting for, happened. A foil appeared. My Moriarty, my Mr. Badger. A person too stupid to understand that a corporate position does not shield him from all wrongdoing.

All the hate, anger, grief, rage within me finally has an outlet ... a more tangible, immediate place to be directed, against a person as careless as he is heartless, to be destroyed. As always, he was offered an honorable solution. He chose to reject it. And now to take those feelings, to control them, to use them in the best possible way.

Yes, I will continue with the Foundation. And now in addition...

"I'll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom and round perdition's flames before I give him up."

That is my counseling boys. That is my prescription drug.

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I finally read this entire thread and have received some great insight and information, along with a great deal of sympathy for the $#@! some of you are dealing with and have dealt with throughout your lives.

I have a 20 yr. old son that is, and has been, in a pretty bad place. He has been diagnosed with mild Asperger's, severe depression and anxiety. We noticed that he started changing when he was around 12 but we didn't think much about it until a few years later when he pretty much withdrew from everything.

Unlike some of you who seemed to have been able to stay somewhat motivated and finish college and start careers, he has gone off the rails and can't seem to motivate himself at all. He failed some classes in high school but graduated, and tried a year of college last year which was a disaster, failed pretty much all his classes. He stayed home this past semester and went to the local JC but again failed almost all of his classes. The thing is, he is extremely intelligent, very high IQ, but just can't seem to motivate himself to do any work.

He spends about 80 to 90% of his time in his room. If there is a positive, it's that he hasn't gotten into drugs or alcohol. But, he has no friends and absolutely no social life. 

My wife and I have struggled with this for years and it has put a ton of strain on both of us and our marriage. We are trying to get him into some counseling again, but it seems like quite the crap shoot with finding the right help. Also, he's not exactly receptive to counseling, but he has done some and has been put on meds in the past, which he says haven't done anything for him. Unfortunately, we live in a smaller town in Texas and don't have access to the mental health care available in the bigger cities in the state. We are willing to go somewhere else for help, but I'm not sure how practical it would be if he needed to go to weekly counseling (we live in west Texas, it's not close to $#@!).

I talked to an outpatient facility that has branches in Dallas and Austin that sounded like something that might work for him, until I found out that they didn't take insurance and for the type treatment that my son would likely require, it would cost around $50,000. Anyway, I'm not sure I expect any answers, just incredibly frustrated at how hard it is to navigate through getting any good help with mental health issues, especially if you don't live in a decent sized city.

A year one poster with 58 posts. 

 

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What are his hobbies? I mean, you said he is in his room 80-90% of the time....does he like to watch/follow sports? 

20 is still very young. You said he is not exactly receptive to counseling, but has tried meds that he claims do not do anything for him - so does that mean he is open about these issues with yall? If so, and given that he is intelligent, it would seem that you could probably make a lot of strides by simply discussing how young he still is and how happy he can still be. 

I know that is a tall order to play the role of counselor yourself when you are straining about it yourself daily, but I think if you try to open his mind to some notions that he may not have considered in his young life, such as how people as old as 40 or 50 pick themselves up and change their outlook and attitude completely, it could help. Sounds simple and cliché, but man, 20 is so young! 

Also, putting graduating college on the back burner until he figures out the happiness/motivation side of things might help, as well as clarifying to him how plausible it is to work full time without a degree and plan to get one in the future.

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Yes, we have talked to him at length about how young he is and how he has his entire life in front of him. We have also talked to him about working for a while and not going to college until he is really ready. 

I think he is caught up looking around at all the kids he grew up with that are moving on with their lives and seemingly doing well. He feels like he is being left behind. He has 0 confidence and just won't put himself out there to do anything about it. I don't know if that's the anxiety or depression, or a combination of both. 

He really doesn't have many hobbies. He reads a fair amount and watches some sports. He was actually a pretty good athlete when he was playing sports in grade school, but he has never been very competitive. He likes movies and knows quite a bit about the industry in terms of the nuts and bolts and various directors and their styles, etc.. We have encouraged him to pursue something in the film industry, but he has to make an effort at college to be able to really pursue that industry.

As far as the Asperger's goes, he doesn't have any repetitive behaviors or anything outwardly that would make you think he was on the spectrum, other than being quiet and socially awkward. Actually, it seems like a bit of a gray area on diagnosing if he actually does have it. That's the thing with mental health issues, it can be fairly nebulous on how people are diagnosed and treated, it's not like treating a broken arm. 

Again, he has to want to change and do something about his situation and he says he does, but he just won't take any action to move forward. He says he feels trapped. I think CBT might be the best approach for him, if we can find someone decent to work with him. Thanks for all of the responses. I really do appreciate it

 

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I have a friend my age (40s) who stumbled through high school (failed a few classes but finished on schedule), then enrolled in college to become a PE teacher, on the second or third year quit and spent the next several years doing low paying jobs such as hauling cement bags and attending convenience stores. After I don't know how many years of that, something clicked for him and he enrolled in college again to study biology. He recently finished his PhD. Another acquaintance has two sons. Son #1 finished high school with a bunch of college credit hours already, yada yada yada, he is now a PhD. Son #2 barely finished high school, took some job somewhere herding goats or whatever. I'm also a parent in a similar situation: my youngest kid, in my estimation, has a 50% chance of finishing high school. I don't have too much of a point to make other than people can be very different, and unfortunately the education system is rigid. Let's say you have a kid who is not college material at all, but could probably be a good cook, welder, etc.; well, tough $#@!, public school is just one track, bunch of academics to prepare you for college.

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I'm going to venture a guess that you have already put " CBT Midland" into the Google box. 
Unfortunately there is no way of knowing how you are going to click with someone until you sit down and talk. I have literally gone down the list until I got one that fit. It took a while. But, he has to want to go. All the good advice in the world won't make a damn if we don't want to hear it.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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Recently got promoted to a position that will be paying roughly $8k/year more than I was making before (with the a better/easier to obtain bonus structure). I'm starting this morning, actually. It's been a few months since I've posted in here, but I've been riding a wave of positive momentum lately. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but a lot of that momentum started from venting in this thread. So I just wanted to come back and say I really appreciate all the feedback you guys gave me a few months ago. Like I said earlier in the thread, it's always been hard for me to talk about my lack of sexual experience with anybody I know personally. Getting some unbiased feedback from you guys, IMO, helped lift some of the weight off my shoulders. I've been seeing an intimacy coach as well, and I feel like that's helped drastically with my confidence.

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So how much of a cut of that $8k a year can I expect?

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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This past November I was a couple of weeks away from getting a full year of sobriety, would have been the longest amount of sober time since I was 17. Due to me not following my program, letting family issuesget to me, and not asking for help, I threw it all away. Along with my first book deal that was set to publish now paired with the dream girl and new life and everything I could have wanted at the time. Chose to post this not as a search for pity but rather to help the people who haven't went the sober route because I kicked heroin and I can argue that's the toughest out there. Lastly, to remind people that do have sober time that the relapse can and will happen when we don't think it will and a strong support group/program is really what will keep you safe. 

Oh yeah, will also post more on my book when it gets up and going again so hopefully I can get a few shag supporters

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sending positive vibes to everyone in this thread! 

I haven't seen it posted elsewhere, and I know a lot of you aren't current students....but if you or someone you know is a UT student, they recently reduced the cost of counseling and psychiatric services provided by the UT Health Center. (https://president.utexas.edu/message...&utm_campaign=) This is a great step forward in helping to provide mental health services to even more students. 

I just wanted to help spread the UT price change and to let others know that campus health centers are a good resource if you need them. (I personally have benefited from the affordable SMU counseling/psychiatric services as a law student)

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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Okay, time to be brave and share my story.

I had a breakdown in November that caused me to change some things in my life. I quit drinking (11 weeks sober, it'll be 12 on Wednesday), got put on an SSRI, but I struggle to like the person I am now, despite the fact that I know he is superior to the person I was. I know at the end of each day I've worked harder at work, been better to my girlfriend, friends, and family, but I continue to let my negative thinking get the best of me. I'm still too fat, too poor, doing worse than my peers, etc. I no longer find happiness in things I used to enjoy (I can't remember the last time I played my guitars, videogames feel like a chore, and even going to eat barbecue seems like more trouble than it is worth). I've never been much of a social person, but I've withdrawn from the few social interactions I once participated in. I know things could always be worse, but I'm starting to wonder if they'll ever get better. I've been applying for new jobs, but so far there have been no knocks on my door. I've talked with my boss about continuously having to cover other people's work, and we'll see if that yields any changes. Oh and the white guilt factor has been cranked up lately when every sexual harasser and mass shooter turns out to be a white guy; it makes me wonder if that's how everyone else sees me. I also feel like a burden on others for describing my frustrations. Thank you for reading this far, and if you want to neg me off Shaggy for writing this, I would understand completely.

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Thanks to everyone for the kind words. Today improved after I wrote what I wrote. I went for a walk with the dogs (the weather was so nice today), then ate a burrito from Freebirds and took a nap that I just woke up from. Tomorrow will be the big test though, specifically going back to work and trying harder than ever before to let that place bring me down.
 

 

 Originally Posted by Ragnar Danneskjöld 

Hang in there. I don’t understand the part about “white guilt”. I mean, what does it have to do with you?

Guilt by association I guess. I look like them, therefore I must be like them.

Oh and TBone, I do still have that Strat. I'll get back to it in time. Again, it's not the nicest Strat by far ($400, made in China), but it does say Fender (not Squier), and it is mine, and it works, and that is enough for me. I'd probably feel unworthy of a nicer guitar anyway.

 

 

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and even going to eat barbecue seems like more trouble than it is worth

my god

 

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

 

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Recently got promoted to a position that will be paying roughly $8k/year more than I was making before (with the a better/easier to obtain bonus structure). I'm starting this morning, actually. It's been a few months since I've posted in here, but I've been riding a wave of positive momentum lately. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but a lot of that momentum started from venting in this thread. So I just wanted to come back and say I really appreciate all the feedback you guys gave me a few months ago. Like I said earlier in the thread, it's always been hard for me to talk about my lack of sexual experience with anybody I know personally. Getting some unbiased feedback from you guys, IMO, helped lift some of the weight off my shoulders. I've been seeing an intimacy coach as well, and I feel like that's helped drastically with my confidence.

I can relate to your story. 

I'm currently 26 and am still a virgin as well. I've actually never had a girlfriend or hell even kissed a girl. No I'm not gay fwiw. The few times I've tried to get a girl they were already interested in someone else so I just let them go. I'm just chilling and not making a big deal about it. If I find someone that's great but I've learned not to make it a priority in my life right now. I'm busy with work and other hobbies.

Sorry you felt like $#@! for your shortcomings but it's okay man I'm going through same thing just not as intense as your experience.

It does kinda suck seeing everyone my age getting married and having kids. Sometimes I want that too but another part says why would you? I grew up in a very religious setting and sex before marriage is frowned upon. I don't necessarily just want to have sex but maybe just companionship. The problem is that effort is involved and I'm damn lazy or maybe just don't care. 

Also I've had a porn addiction since I was about 9. I've tried to quit but I keep going back. I used to watch everyday but now it's every other day maybe every couple days. I hate doing it because life is passing by and I'm stuck doing this $#@!. The time I spend watching I could be going out and meeting new people or improving myself. Makes me feel like a loser. Like a pervert. 

I'm really not like this once you get to know me. You would never know I do that stuff. I hate living a double life. But I'm just used to it. If I stop I get withdrawals and any little thing like seeing a hot chick or something on social media just triggers me to satisfy that urge.

17 years doing this. 17. It's $#@!ed me up and I know it. I can't even pray because of this. How could I? I would be a huge hypocrite. But I have to make a change. I'm 26 damn years old and enough is enough. I'm letting time slip past and I haven't accomplished a damn thing with my life.

 

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If fapping to porn every day is wrong, then I don't wanna be right.
Go to a scrip club and get some lap dances. $#@!, even tell the dancer of your choice that you're a virgin. Professionals will understand and treat you accordingly.

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You said it in your post if you read it back to yourself. The root of your unhappiness is your addiction to porn. Have you sought treatment for that? If you want to get better, that's where you start. And, it doesn't matter that other people can handle porn and you can't. It's no different than some people not being able to handle alcohol. They have to seek help to deal with their addiction and you may have to seek help to deal with yours. I hope you seek help and don't try to do it yourself because you have a lot of life years left and you should not spend them unhappy.

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Probably one of the best posts ever on the shag. Nobody wants to admit being addicted to porn, but as a recovered alcoholic, I have obsessed over porn, food, and spending money. It all boils down to my inability to accept life on life's terms, and some primordial need to change the way that I feel i.e. dopamine. Quitting drinking was easy compared to quitting porn, that $#@!'s powerful. I see porn as an epidemic analagous to opioids, it's just altering reality for so many young people.

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by cactusflinthead

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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I'm scrolling thru my page tonight lying in bed and see another young girl from Sammie's school died by taking her own life and the chills just shook me. I cried like it was Sammie all over again since it is the hell I live in. I don't know how well this young girl and Sam knew each other but they were in the same grade. While a lot of people are so wrapped up playing $#@!ing politics there is a whole generation out there in pain. And that pain grows every time we lose a young life. I still have plenty of days and times that I wish I weren't here anymore either but I'm fighting. You may not see it, I probably won't let you see it but I'm fighting. But I'm tired, I'm tired of seeing political bull$#@! and it is bull$#@!. Trump this, Obama that, Hillary such and such, guess what none of those asshats in DC give a rats ass about you or your situation but by all means keep thinking your making a difference somehow when the people you can make a difference to are on your street, in your neighborhood, in school with your kids, those are the ones we should concentrate on. Mental illness is a cold hearted bitch, when are we going to wake up and fight that instead of fighting the crap were fighting now. I don't know the girl, I don't know her family, I don't know the situation and she may well have been at Sammie's funeral. To them I'm sorry. Peace be with you and with your daughter. To everyone if you ever think of taking or ending your life pick up the phone, call someone, talk or text one of the hotlines, this has to stop.

Of all the posts by the man this one really stands out. I'm reluctant to move every post of yours over here, it felt too much like picking at a wound, but this one..well, it's pretty damn important. 

 

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This times a brazillion. I have really been struggling for about 6 weeks ... but expectations keep growing. I am on a number of closed groups on Facebook regarding eating disorders. Two days ago, a mother had to "pull the plug" on her 22 year old daughter who was in a coma after a seizure stopped her heart which had been damaged from 7 years of eating disorders. Everyone was reaching out to the mom in the group. For some reason, the words would not come to me regarding the mom. So, I wrote this on that wall and addressed it to the now, dead daughter: 

My dear Maggie... by now you have undoubtedly met my beloved daughter, Morgan. She preceded you by about 16 months. So some words of advice.... Maggie, watch out for Morgan's backgammon game skills. She is incredible at that game! Don't test her on her Game of Thrones knowledge either. She knows it all. So by now, she would have found all of the best restaurants and worst bars in heaven. And that advice you can take! But also know that Morgan can be in your face and irreverent as hell. And yet, her capacity to love others knows no boundaries. Maggie, I have a feeling that you are like that as well. Now Maggie, don't think for a moment that it is your time to rest! To the contrary, you have joined an ever growing family, an Army of Warrior Angels. Your initial job will be to look out for your family. They are in such pain right now. Second guessing everything. A hurt that goes so deep to their heart and soul and they wonder if they will ever even remotely find a place of peace. Just know that right now, they are in shock... and they will be going through a wide range of emotions over the coming months and years ahead. Find a way of sending them a sign that you are ok, that you are now strong. A small sign. One candle in their darkness. Maggie, find a way to have your incredible soul inspire them to dare mighty things, to achieve glorious triumphs in your name. Change is coming in the eating disorder industry. It surely must. My dear Maggie, your parents had the dearest, most costly gift of all taken from them. And it will not be in vain. Our strength, our resolve grows ever stronger as you and Morgan and the so many others, inspire us to fight, to grow. And we will save lives.... one precious life at a time. Yours, S.

I don't know where those words came from. I don't hardly remember writing them. I didn't think about it beforehand. The words just seemed to appear. I don't know if it was the right thing to say especially since I am in a particularly dark place. 

I do know that good Lord, the eating disorder industry is a mess, it is stuck in complacency, ineptitude and treatments that haven't been show to medically work efficiently. I don't know much boys. Other than hug your wife if you have one, tell you children you love them each and every day and embrace the joy of life and substance to the soul that your children give.

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by cactusflinthead

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

Thanks, Cactus.  This was easily one of the most important threads on the old site; it continues to deliver here in the new digs.

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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I just accepted a new position which will mean more money, but more importantly I will be rid of one the worst bosses I have ever had in my life. That $#@! sucker was the source of 75% of my stress, all of it completely unnecessary and only served to inflate his own ego. I wish I could tell him to $#@! himself as I walk out the door, but I am still within the same agency. 
It's a celebration bitches!

this still makes me lulz

 

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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My heart truly goes out to any psych worker. That is such an important, and exhausting job. One of the reasons why I've been so hesitant to go to a psych worker is because I don't want to share my burdens with another person; we all have enough to deal with on our own, and even though I'm paying them for their service, it still seems wrong to pass all of the things weighing me down onto someone else.

On a brighter note, I just got done with those three interviews. The first one didn't go so well, but that's okay. I didn't beat myself up about it, and simply moved onto the next one. The other two were both today (about an hour apart), and those both went a lot better. Even if none of these interviews turn into job offers, I can be proud of the ambition I showed in applying, preparing, and interviewing, and know that other people see my value in the professional setting (even if I don't always see it in myself, or feel like my current coworkers do). 

Thank you again for reading my words here, and offering advice and encouragement. Also, I'm thirteen weeks sober as of today.

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Not to bash you unduly, but the foregoing is a classic rationalization exhibiting distorted thinking. There are plenty of people, professionals and otherwise, ready, willing, and able to help.

There are a fair number of psych-type workers that may need more help than they give, but many or most of them have learned to cope with the pressures of their jobs, just like everyone else.

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No worries at all, and thank you for clearing that up. I'm definitely a lot more willing to talk to a professional now, if I can find a good one that I can afford in my provider network.

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Still chuckling at the 1995 version of me. . ."Oh, she's a LPC who likes to smoke weed and screw? I'm gonna wife that up and have kids immediately, what could possibly go wrong??" Then when I was an "insider" I learned that mental health pros were usually the ones with the worst problems.

(Wall of text redacted)

Therapists and psychiatrists can be useful. Over the last 4 months my underlying depression/dysthymia has been effectively treated with a low dose of Wellbutrin XR. I like my psychiatrist, mainly because she has experienced 12 step recovery and thus is enlightened. It helps that I'm honest with her. She can't help treat what she can't see.

I'm grateful that my experience includes having my own human resources and self reliance fail me completely - humility, service work, prayer and meditation can solve all my problems.

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Congratulations on the sobriety.

One of the tenants of my own recovery is that God made me just like he made every single human, and I'm no better, and no worse, and that the most I'll ever be is human. Look at it this way - how dare you deny the mental health professional the chance to be of service to you? That's awfully arrogant, that you'd project your own self-loathing into that situation. You think you know better than God? What if God put them in your life to say the one thing that might click in your psyche and unveil a happy, sober, meaningful life?

I'm sorta joking, but not really. One of the reasons I love TwiceHorn is that he and I usually say the same thing in different ways. I'm more in your face, while he's more professorial.

Reminds me of that old joke about the guy in a flood.

Water starts rising, guy in a big truck says "get in, I'll get you to high ground" Guy says "Nope, God'll save me."
Water keeps rising, guy in a boat comes by and says "get in, water's still rising, I'll get you to safety." guy replies "nope, God'll save me"
By now he's on his roof, helicopter comes by, pilot says over a loudspeaker "water's still rising and will soon completely inundate the area. I'll send a basket down an fly you to safety." Guy replies "God's got this, he'll save me"
Guy drowns. Goes to heaven. Asks God why he didn't save him.
God says "you $#@!ing idiot, I sent a truck, a boat, and a helicopter."

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Finally found what I wanted to share with you -

"Thinking you're the greatest and thinking you're the worst are the opposite sides of the same coin of self-centeredness" - Georgia, from AA

The point is that we need help, even though pride and ego tell us we can handle it by ourselves.

Another thing I noted from a similar talk -

"Just do the stitching and leave the pattern up to God. Don't worry if it's a shirt, or pants, or whatever. Just do the stitches."

I took that to mean that if we put one foot in front of the other, and try to be honest and transparent in our daily efforts, and if we're willing to accept the outcome even if it's not exactly what we want, then the bigger picture will eventually materialize.

The last item I had was something I realized when I was about a month sober, flat out busted and broke and at rock bottom - "God hasn't abandoned me, so what rational reason makes me think he's about to start now?"

By God I mean my higher power, which I often describe as the totality of human consciousness, cosmic universal energy, or Karma.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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So the new job has been going great so far. They’ve sent me to Houston permanently, and I’m loving it here. I’ve worked out 5x a week for probably the last 5 months or so, and i look like I’m in the best shape of my life. With that being said, I’d be lying to you if I said I’m happier now. When i checked in last time, there was a lot of untapped possibilities floating around in my head. Now, it has reverted back to “none of this $#@! matters if you can’t become more confident both talking to women and in the bedroom.â€

I’ve tried to stop watching porn all together, but I’m a lot more addicted to it than i thought. I’m probably more addicted to porn than anything I’ve ever been addicted to in my life, as sad as that is to admit. But i have an honest question for those who have cut back on porn, or for those that say that’s what needs to stop all together. How? I feel like most of the people saying this didn’t grow up with unlimited online porn from an early age. Ideally, I would like to be able to go to my “spank bank†and relive some past sexual experiences that I’ve had, but i don’t have a good sexual experience to turn to. Not one. If porn isn’t on, i can’t even maintain an erection long enough to finish. In fact, I even made the mistake of hiring an escort to “get the first one out of the wayâ€, and I still couldn’t get it up and/or maintain. 

When I moved to Houston, I met this girl through one of my work friends. She was clearly attracted to me from the very beginning, and she even made it clear to our friend. We went out one night for our mutual friends older sister’s 30th birthday and the chemistry was there all night. We were making out for a while (first time that’s happened in years) and she asks if i wanted to go back to my place. We get back to my place and as the night progresses, it becomes more and more obvious that I have no idea what the $#@! I’m doing. Even when it comes to simple $#@! like cuddling, i feel like a lost cause. It never goes smoothly for me. At this point, I felt like my best bet was just be honest with her about your lack of experience, hoping that would ease my anxiety. I told her straight up, I’ve never really done this before. Big mistake. As a 25 year old woman, she just couldn’t get past the fact that a reasonably good looking 28 year old man would have so little experience. Now, suddenly she “remembers†that she hasn’t let out her dog, and she lyfts home. Haven’t heard from her since that night. I’ve texted her once or twice (probably long winded desperate texts, because I’m terrible at this $#@!) but I know that ship has sailed at this point. There’s a big part of me that just $#@!ing despises her for how she just ghosted me, but then I take a step back and realize I’d probably do the same thing if I were somehow in her shoes. 

I’ve recently started seeing a sex therapist, but man, I’m going to need to see some results for me to think this is worth it (because holy $#@! it’s a lot more expensive than I thought). I’ve started meditating, hoping that down the road i can get good enough at getting out of my head and “into my body†when the time comes again. But $#@!, man. I hate that I feel this boxed in, but i don’t see any way I’ll be happy until I can get over this. Problem is, i don’t even know what it would take for me to feel like I’ve actually gotten over it. I’ve put way too much thought, and effort into this part of my life to have nothing to show for. It’s a hopeless feeling.

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That’s rough. $#@! her for ghosting you. And $#@! her for bailing after you were honest about intimate stuff like that. 


That being said, you need to just jump in with both feet and get some experience. That may mean low hanging fruit or whores.

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All I can think of to say is women can be bitches and it takes a while to find a keeper. It's better to fail early and move on to the next. 

Sounds like you are making progress.

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In terms of the porn thing, no idle time. Don't even allow the opportunity for it to creep it. Take up a new hobby/read/volunteer/work more etc. I'm on week 3 'porn-purge' and admittedly wasn't cursed with addictive genes, but after you break that first 10 days you realize how much better and more productive you are resulting from a convergence of self confidence/empowerment, general energy, and wanting to accomplish more stuff (partly in attempt to keep occupied).

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Bro I haven't even kissed a girl or even had a gf and I'm getting closer to your age.

You're way ahead of me at this point lol. Then again these aren't priorities in my life.

I

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’m a big fan of the idea that an experience is void of meaning until you give it one. So if you decide that this experience was a negative one then boom! Negative experience it was. Sounds to me like you met some chick and flirted/impressed enough to get her back to your place. I would count that as a huge mother$#@! ydfu win.

 

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Bro I haven't even kissed a girl or even had a gf and I'm getting closer to your age.

You're way ahead of me at this point lol. Then again these aren't priorities in my life.

This is strange to me. I’ve been with my wife for 22 of the 41 years of my life and I still stick a hand down her pants all the time, in private and sometimes public, because the residual 14 year old in me just has to know what’s going on down there and what it feels like.

 

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Hey, i havent read all the responses to you but I think what happened is you shared too early. The next time you get into a situation of mutual attraction, tell the gal that you really dig her and want to go slow on the physical part. Blame it on religion or not feeling comfortable with promiscuous encounters. Then start with the cuddling and foreplay stuff. Get some oil and message her back. Just enjoy the feel of her without putting pressure on yourself to perform. Then after she gets to know you you can share your lack of experience but your eagerness to learn. If the gal is mature and compasionate, she might be willing to bring you along. 
Another idea is to hit a cougar bar and hit on hot older women who might like $#@!ing with a young dude who needs the patience and understanding that you do. The main thing is to hold on to sharing too much info right away and start slowly towards physical intimacy. It sounds like you have ED maybe due to porn but mostly through performance anxiety. Be more gental with yourself. It might not hurt to see a $#@! doctor about ED and they can help you get that fixed. I don't have a $#@! so i don't know what it is like to have this problem but I feel that this is something that can be treated with the right professionals helping you. Get that help because you are worth it.

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by cactusflinthead

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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Hi! Can I join? I just need to vent. 

Mom died in November. It was sudden and not expected. Since then, we have been going through hell with our son at school. He’s super smart and awesome to be around outside of school. In school, he can’t deal. He’s been evaluated and we can now get help. That took almost 3 months and his official plan won’t be in place for another two weeks. 

We now have other parents calling the school calling my kid a bully, a perp and a bad kid. I understand they are frustrated because my kid can shut down the classroom with his outbursts. I just don’t understand the lack of thought / understanding from other people. We’ve been called $#@!ty parents, as though we haven’t been seeing a therapist for two years. They don’t see the giant improvements at home. They also don’t see the little, small improvements at school. If we aren’t beating his ass, we are $#@! parents. 

I’ve woken up angry almost everyday for the past 4 days, as this stuff has really started to blow up. We can’t do anything, as we have to go by the book, same as the school. It’s not like we aren’t trying. This $#@! is bringing me down and all I want to do is talk to my mom. She was a real rock for us.

Anyway- tldr: kid has issues at school, other parents suck, moms dead and I’m angry / sad.

 

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They won't see things from your point of view because that's a lost art. Hang in there. It sucks that Vogons are in charge of psych services, but if you persist, things will get better. Until then...? You will learn which other parents never to trust.

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Good luck and stick by your kid. At the end of the day, he's the one your going to need to change your diaper, not the other parents.

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Man the PTA women can DIAGF. I can’t stand them. Got caught up once in a convo with them at a bday party. Yeah never again. Give me the moms that work and have a messy life.

Coping with our own idiosyncrasies is bad enough, adding a loss of a family member like a grandmother unexpectedly is awful. Those moms know better. Grrr.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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Not sleeping well at all. Only getting about 3 hous each night. No problem falling asleep. Just staying asleep. Feel like it’s caused by work related stress. Plan on seeing a doctor soon as this has been going on for a couple months. Anyone go through something similar?

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Yes, it's the worst.

Try this:
1) stop drinking
2) Take ZMA (zinc/magnesium supplement, available on amazon or GNC) about an hour before bedtime
3) if you wake up 3-4 hours after going to sleep, don't beat yourself up or think about how you need to sleep. Get out of bed and read a book on the couch. Do NOT check phone or watch TV. When/if you get sleepy, go back to bed. If not, keep reading until it's time to get up.

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So everyone has their way but I’m finally on the diet and exercise makes a huge difference bandwagon. Sunlight too. Food and exercise isn’t everything but it really can reset the baseline lows a tad higher. I’m at 60 days and I’ve had 1-2 bouts with some lows, one really low but even those coincided with sugar/bad carb derails. I hope I keep this going as a lifestyle.

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Pick up the newish book 'why we sleep', incredibly indepth/interesting and, very surprisingly, fun read.

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Sleep is incredibly important to every aspect of your well being from impulse control to locking in memories from the day to fighting disease/cancer to creative thinking. And not just sleep where you pop a Benadryl or ambien as those don't really allow the body to reach the deep sleep stages.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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I've read this thread pretty much since the beginning. I'm not sure why I haven't posted in here. Denial maybe? My depression/dark thoughts began when I kind of felt pressured by my wife to start thinking about having a child. I'm from an upper-middle class family, no debt aside from a mortgage, have a great job that I really like, have a healthy relationship with my wife, everything was going really well. It was the next step right? Have a kid. I felt like I didn't have control over my life anymore as I had to put my child ahead of my own happiness and my wife's happiness. I hated that feeling. I went along with it and after 2 months, found out she was pregnant. It seemed like everyone else was ecstatic that we were having a kid except me.

When she was pregnant, I would have outbursts of sadness followed by angry thoughts that I was no longer important in any way to my family. My wife became the rock that I lived on for a good year (while she was pregnant and after my son was born). I was honestly more scared/terrified of being a bad/irresponsible father than actually realizing that being a good dad is about just being at home and interacting with my new son. I'm not going to lie, I was a pretty miserable human being up until about January 2017 (son was born in May 2016). I was in a bad place mentally and was just too worried about not being a good dad that I was not a good dad for the first 6 months of his life. Something changed around that time that made me realize that my wife and son were relying on me. I'm the kind of person that really succeeds under stressful situations. I literally told myself - "Are you going to sit around and feel bad about yourself as you aren't the number 1 guy anymore? No. Go be the provider you want to be and be the rock of the family that your wife and son need."

The last year or so, I have made dramatic changes on my own mental health. I'm a man of routine and I developed better routines to get by during the day. My son really screwed with my morning and afternoon routines when I would get home from work - through no fault of his own: he's a baby and he didn't know. I think that the threat of change caused me to get in to this funk a few years ago. I found outlets to de-stress that did not include lashing out at the person who loves me the most: my wife. I stopped all drinking at home (although I never was much of a drinker), began taking walks with my dog, and communicating openly with my wife. When I realized that I am the one that my small family depends on to provide not only financial support but emotional support, I realized that I had more meaning in my life - to be the best father and husband I could be. I found it to be more beneficial for me to embrace change.

I hope that my own "organic" depression solving tips can help others who are currently in a bad way:
-Develop a new routine that involves ways to de-stress in a healthy way
-Realize that you are important and not a waste of space
-Communicate with those around you about what's bothering you - it's also important for you to surround yourself with people who care about you

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Good deal. It's ok not to want children, but examining the whys and wherefores of that is worthwhile and may change your outlook on the question. I think the problem here is that your initial decision was not respected and you had to reconcile yourself to being a father after the fact. Glad you have got it sorted.

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I agree. I was more reserved to the "I'm not ready to have kids yet" because I didn't want to change an already good thing my wife and I had going. Marriage is about compromise so I went ahead with it knowing I wasn't ready for it.

Today, I love being around my son and love being a dad. My wife is literally the best mom I could have asked for for my son.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

 

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Has anyone else tried Effexor? I just started 75mg daily.

I was on it for a little over a year but 150mg. it worked but I kept getting these zaps from it (a side effect). I also got really bad night sweats taking it like soaking my sheets so that was annoying. also never just stop taking it because I thought my doctor told me to stop taking it and I went through horrible withdrawals. 

I have battled depression and anxiety for about 3 years now and its really hard at times. I cant figure it out. its like dude your bills are all paid no debt beautiful wife a great daughter and one on the way so why do I get to the point where its hard to get out of bed?

 

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So I went 0 for 3 with those jobs I interviewed for a few weeks ago. I'm trying not to think negatively about that, but damn, that is a challenge. I lost sleep last night over this, and I'm up earlier than usual because of it too. But I'm still here, still fighting. I put on my racing blinders to prevent comparing my professional life to that of other people, and that has helped. Today I am 17 weeks sober (or, 4 months if I need to be counting that way instead), and the bathroom scale says I'm under 200 pounds again. Personally I'm growing, and I'm working to do the same professionally. My time is coming, I just have to wait in line a little longer. Thanks again for all your words after reading mine; y'all kept me out of a dark place.

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Focus on how far you've come. It sounds to me like you are making significant progress. Don't let the job stuff overshadow the other gains you are clearly making.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

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just keep working towards your goals and keep busy at all times. work out clean the garage out ect! that's what always helps me. I live in Michigan and once shoveled 6 neighbors driveways filled with snow.

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I have another interview this week, and then one more on Monday. I also met with two of the people who interviewed me last month and got some solid feedback from them on how to interview better. My mistake was giving concise answers to questions when really everyone is looking for long-winded, thorough answers. They equated that with selling myself short. So, I'm gonna talk some ears off from now on, and make them know what I already know; that I'm the person they need to hire. Also, I learned that even when you interview with people who already know you, act like you've never met them before.

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Great job on getting the feedback! That was really brave. Seriously. 
You are absolutely correct about selling yourself. That is a tough lesson to learn and I'm still working on it. Go get 'em.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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So Friday March the 2nd started off like any other day. I had gone on a 5k jog and lifted weights after and had been smoking a lot of pot at night while I crammed for my test the following Tuesday. I'm 31 and pursuing graduate school for a master's in engineering and I also teach an online course on top of my normal full time job so I don't get much sleep but that hasn't changed since undergraduate days. 

I've always gotten this pain in my heart back to my high school days but very infrequently, maybe once every 6 months or so. It would just be a sharp stabbing pain that if I turned any certain direction it would seem to get a little worse so I'd relax and breath and it would go away after less than a minute. Lately I had noticed that I was getting this pain more often but mainly at night when I was sitting down studying after having smoked. I noticed if I leaned forward for a while hunching over my work I'd get some weird heart palpitations too. It wasn't anything that didn't go away quickly or cause too much pain so I didn't think anything of it. 

Well on this Friday the pain was lasting longer than normal so I decided to walk around to try to walk it off. I started to stress out a little bit because it was lasting somewhere around 5-10 minutes this time even if it wasn't very painful. I told my wife about it and decided to go urinate to kill some time. Immediately as I started to urinate my vision started getting blurry and I started getting the sensation like I wanted to faint so I hurried up and finished and started walking towards my bedroom to get to my wife. I made it to the door when I fainted for a few seconds. I got up with my wife's help and made it to my bed and contemplated if we should call an ambulance. I wasn't feeling all of the other symptoms that come with a heart attack so I decided to wait for a moment to see if I started to feel better. I eventually did and ended up not going to the ER and decided to wait to see my doctor during the week. I know it was a stupid move but I live paycheck to paycheck and paying an ambulance or ER bill has to be a last resort and maybe this qualified for it but it's in the past.

Fast forward to me visiting my doctor and he wasn't too concerned because he thought maybe it was a vasovagal response to the heart pain and maybe I fainted after urinating due to something called micturition syncope where people faint while urinating due to lowered blood pressure at that moment. To be safe he decided to have me wear a heart monitor for 24 hours. Fast forward to the next Friday where we discussed the results. He freaked me out. He told me that my heart rate was very low (Bradycardia) sometimes in the 27 BPM range and that I was experiencing several occasions where my heart pauses for several seconds and then starts beating again with the longest being 7 seconds. He told me that I might need a pacemaker asap. I always knew that I had a low resting heart rate around 50 BPM but I thought it was because I played basketball twice a week and was in decent shape.

He called an electrophysiologist nearby and fortunately was able to schedule me for an appointment that same day that Friday March 9th. The electrophysiologist reviewed the data from the heart monitor and concluded that the data wasn't making sense because in one interpretation of the data set it would say it was at 27 BPM but in another it would say it was at 50 BPM. He didn't think that I needed a pacemaker right then and there but he did say that something is obviously up if I fainted so he has me wearing a different heart monitor for a week this time. 

I'm still getting dull heart pain at random times throughout the day sometimes long lasting but nothing crazy. Unfortunately I think I've started to develop some bad anxiety because of this whole thing because on three separate instances I've felt like my arms get numb and cold and I get this extreme anxiety to where it feels like I'm going to faint. It's happened twice at work in the past two days since I've returned to work from hearing this news. Even if it doesn't get as bad as my arms going numb I still get these waves of anxiety throughout the day. It's hard to find joy in things. I'm short of breath. It seems like if someone is talking to me a lot it starts to happen more. It's like subconsciously I'm feeling like "I don't care what you are telling me right now, it's not important in comparison to how I am feeling right now". 

I think more than anything I'm scared to death of dying and leaving my wife and my 7 year old without a father. Sure they would get a decent sum of money from life insurance but that isn't going to replace me being in my son's life. I'm trying to figure out ways to combat this feeling but it's hard no matter what I try (breathing techniques, going for a walk etc). My doctor initially suggested anti-anxiety meds in case the original heart pain and fainting was related to an anxiety attack and I turned him down because i wanted to see what the cardiologist would find first but since then I've definitely felt the full force of what an anxiety attack feels like on 3 occasions and just general anxiety all day. I've changed my mind and left a message with his office to please prescribe me anything that will help. Any suggestions on dealing with this potential anxiety and tips on any meds in case I get a preference is greatly appreciated!

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I’ve had all these symptoms, minus the low heart rate.
Anxiety all my life.
It would get so bad at times, I couldn’t even walk around the block because I THOUGHT something was wrong with my heart
and I couldn’t breathe properly.

Then, About 3 years ago I went jogging and when I got home, I just couldn’t cool off.
Started feeling weird, then the anxiety kicked in like a mother.
Wife takes me to the ER. Blood work normal, enzymes good.
BP somewhat elevated.


Still didn’t comfort me, (Still having palpitations), went to a Cardiologist.
Stress test, etc. all fine.
Wore a heart monitor for a couple of days. Nothing.

Dr. put me on Bystolic/Beta Blocker.
First dose, way too strong. Lowered my BP too much.
Went back and lowered the dose to the lowest possible.
(I even cut those in 1/2)

Worked like a charm. No more palpatations, less anxiety.
Eventually weened off of them.
Still get palps every now and then. (lack of sleep/hangovers)

Hang in there bud.

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Anxiety and what it does to our thoughts is incredible. Depression too. But the runaway thoughts and the doomsday stuff that’s the hallmark of anxiety is nothing like anything I’ve ever experienced. I’ve got my coping mechanisms and they largely seem to work but holy hell the dare anxiety puts on us is incomparable.

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I think I've had four full blown anxiety attacks since the doctor scared the $#@! out of me thinking I needed a pacemaker right then and there Friday last week. 1 the next day on Saturday, another Monday, Tuesday and then Thursday this week. Oddly enough they always seem to happen sometime after lunch around 1-2 PM and they always start with that sensation of my arms going numb, shortness of breath, feeling anxious, inability to concentrate and my god if someone is trying to make small talk with me while this is happening it makes it 10 times worse. Which is $#@!ty because we have so many small talkers at work. It doesn't help that we've had to interview two candidates this week at work which is so taxing for me right now with all of the back and forth. Trying to walk around at times it feels like I may lose my balance/i'm dizzy/may pass out etc.

Just got back from the doctor today for some blood work and he prescribed Klonopin. I have yet to take one since I'm thinking I only should if I start feeling like one is coming. The side effects or addictive potential on those things (prob any anti anxiety meds) make me think twice about just freely taking it first thing in the morning "just in case". I'm still waiting for the cardiologist to get the ticker checked out and today is the last day i'm wearing my 7 day heart monitor after which I'll review that with the electrophysiologist. 

Oddly enough I don't even think I'm stressing out about my heart condition anymore, I've told myself that worst case scenario if I need the pacemaker it'll be ok but it seems like some anxiety switch has been triggered in my brain now and now any little thing just makes me feel so $#@!ty. What if I get done with all of the heart check outs and they think it all looks fine and I still can't go back to feeling "normal"? I guess we'll have to find out if we get there. 

Rip76, question for you. Was one of the symptoms you'd have also the heart pain? My doctor has had me on a diuretic for high BP for 4 years now and he originally didn't want to put me on a beta blocker because my resting HR was already low and he didn't want it to get lower. I think with my possibly having bradycardia they aren't going to consider beta blockers for me if that is something that might help my heart issues and/or my newly arisen anxiety issues.

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I don’t know if it was “heart”’pain.
But definitely “chest area”pain, due to anxiety making my muscles tense.

I get the dizzy anxiety feeling too.

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Anxiety is a bitch. Last year some family issues triggered a constant feeling of impending doom. I hated that. Got prescribed citalopram, which helped.

Anyway, for anybody dealing with anxiety, I feel your pain. Hope you get better.

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See for me, the anxiety always hits me way after the ordeal.

In the last ten years I’ve gone through a $#@! ton.
And it’s been lingering for a bit.

A stressful job doesn’t help that.

 

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Stressful job helps me. I’m gonna be stressed about something, for years it was work and my personal $#@! now it’s just work and when it’s not work my life goes wacko. Main thing is stay out of the deep end, if I do that I’m okay but the trip and fall into the worry hole happens enough.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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I suppose this will be a stream-of-consciousness thing because I'm using voice to text as I drive along the back roads headed into town. I'm sort of between big jobs right now, puttering along on the small ones to keep my head above water... I won't go into specifics however the wife and I had a bit of a financial setback and on top of that around a month ago I had to pay my mother's property taxes and that's a huge chunk out of pocket. I'm between big jobs right now and I was kind of counting on a decent size one to happen just in the first part of January to maybe start a February and that one looks like it may not happen for a year or two at best depending on how the client changes their need. Here's the big sticker, my mom has a lot of health issues and currently she is in a puddle laid out on the couch at my house and probably should go into the hospital for a few days for a recurring stomach issue that comes up to her about once per year. It's a bit of an internal migraine thing not her head, more her abdomen and other related areas... She was watching the kids for us last night when everything fell apart and I don't know if she should get to the hospital or what. The time it takes to maintain her dog my horses run the kids around 2 baseball, Scouts, do all the work that I need to do driving across central Texas plus my wife working more of a regular schedule so that leaves me to be taxi driver... I imagine I'll get through it all it just takes time and have to face the issues as they come one at a time.

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That said, here is a picture of what I get to look at Daily. All it's really doing right now is making me wish I had the time to go fishing but I haven't put a hook in the water for at least 9 months.

This particular spot looks idyllic, however the reality is the biggest I've ever pulled out of this is approximately 9 inches long and 95% of the time you're simply casting to water. I guess that makes the one you do pull out to be all that more worth the effort. 

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I was in a particularly dark time a few years ago, and got in the habit of taking my shirt off early in the morning and walking the dog on some nearby trails at dawn. I didn’t wear headphones or look at my phone, and we’d walk 4-5 miles, and it did me a world of good- sun on my back and in my ears the sound of birds singing and the wind. It did me a world of good. 

This too shall pass, Rox. Put a line in the water while you can.

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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ROX, I can relate. Been over year since Ive been fishing. Seems like life has beat the hell out of me the last 3 years or so. Started with what later was diagnosed as PTSD...had already been dealing with some depression issues already. then 2 floods in 16 months, the last, Harvey, pissing on me and everything I owned. mix in loosing a close friend and a couple of extended family members,(two-legged) and 3 that were 4 legged. I had a fishing trip planned with my brother who lives in Oklahoma (long story) ever since Harvey blew out of town. We were going to fish Lake Athens for 4 days, just to get my mind off $#@!. Was supposed to be there yesterday. But nooooo, woke up at 0200 with a migraine from Hell. lasted until around 1600 or so. never got out of bed. Got up early this morning and about mid first cup of coffee, anxiety, panic and all manner of PTSD symptoms jump my ass.....made it as far as opening the door to my truck. back inside where ive been holed up all day. I wouldn't wish this $#@! on my worst enemy. But I wish it on my aggy neighbor. Son of a bitch got cross ways with me the first day I moved in. He walked up, said Howdy, noticed my Air Force Retired stcker and pipes up, Oh, a fellow vet. I asked what branch he served in, and the bastard said the corp... I was already in a foul mood that day, and I $#@!ing went off on the $#@!er. He hasn't said $#@! to me since....well time to go take more drugs.....everyone hang in there.

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sorry for your losses. when I suffer panic attacks they last for a couple days and no benzo's really help so I avoid them. sometimes its about taking it 1 day or week at a time and sometimes I just need to make it 10 minutes at a time. hang in there things can and will get better. thank you for your service

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PTSD sucks. Almost got killed 2 years ago next month and that along with all the other $#@! that has been piling up month after month has gotten me having severe anxiety episodes from that $#@!. So bad that thr only thing that calms me is to sit in the car and meditate while listening to music. $#@! just pops up randomly when I'm sleeping too, or every now and then just at a random time during the day. I have zero symptoms just going through the day or sleeping then BAM. 

$#@!'s gotten steadily $#@!ty since September 2015. So bad that this past Christmas when my grandmother died I didnt even feel any sadness. I just felt happy that she got to stop having to deal with this $#@! life after 90 years. Could say I felt kind of envious.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

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Man, we've all shared so much pain and anxiety and provided shoulders to lean on. This is why I love the Shag. It has the worst of the internet and the best of it. I hate that someone will have all this intimate information that we've shared as a way to guide ourselves out of the haze and onto more solid ground. This was a real helpful thread and I've gained so much from all of you. Thanks.

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I have a hard time really putting into words what this thread has done for me. It lets me vent, it gives me hope. I've never met any of you in person but to all of you, thank you, for everything. I don't know how I'll replace this.

 

http://www.surlyhorns.com/board/inde...forum/16-help/

this is the new forum section?

 

 

And that's about it.  18 pages over there. There is quite a bit that was left, but I hope this is a decent rendering of the last year or so. 

Reply With Quote

[cactusflinthead 27628]

14 hours ago, Lidig8r said:

Grief can be so debilitating.  It manifests itself in so many different ways.

I hope you Surly-ites find peace, love and joy on Easter.

http://dadsjourneywithed.blogspot.com/2018/03/grief-easter-hope-and-death.html

 

Bumping this to page 2 so it doesn't get lost

[troph 25242]

You did a great job making these anonymous. Thanks!

[ImGolfn 77]

Thanks for moving everything.

[40acredropout 2911]

 

 

 

.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by 40acredropout
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[PhillyD 1316]

There's a lot to unpack in your post Dropout but I'll pick out a couple of things.  

1.  I'm sure she's a great girl, but don't put it on a pedestal.

2.  For where you came from, getting a college degree and a job is no small accomplishment.  Give yourself some credit for that.

I hope it's not too late to turn around your work situation and I wish you the best.  I'm sure some of the folks in this thread will have a lot more to say.

[cactusflinthead 27628]

Barely have time to reply. 

You took the first step in admitting to yourself that things are not as they should be and you made mistakes. Seeking counsel is also a good one. Take the same approach with them as you did with us. Let it all hang out. It will be different face to face and it might take a while to get to the points you made here. Keep going. 

Some of what you described is common to a lot of people. Anger, resentment, shame, pride, all that stuff is something we have to deal with as human beings. 

Welcome. 

[JustASock 0]

I think I need help.  I feel like I am falling apart - my job is rough, I don’t get along with my wife, my kids are having a rough time. 

I can’t sleep, I can’t concentrate, I am crushed with anxiety. My brain is fucked up and I think about suicide every now and then.  I won’t - but the fact that it is there and considered because I wouldn’t feel like I’m stretch as tight as a piano wire.  

Thanks for listening. 

[JustASock 0]

I’m a regular shaggy poster but I wanted to remain anonymous.

I am in a dark dark place that seems to keep getting worse.

[cactusflinthead 27628]

I am going to treat you the same as anyone else saying this.
Call someone now.
Crisis hotline N Texas.
214 828-1000
If you go to church or temple or wear a colander on your head talk to them too.
You can say what you want here.
Well, other than wishing swam drowns. That's outta bounds.
There are other crisis hotlines, prayer lines, if you have insurance now is a good time to use it.
Don't check out. Stick around. 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by cactusflinthead

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

I'll just add, get to a doctor right away. Psych is best, but if you have to go through a primary care physician first, there's no shame in it. Your brain's chemistry is fucked up, which if you look around is hardly a unique condition. Most of society currently has fucked up brain chemistry. Meds can help.

[BearSchlong 8249]

Sock, Sometimes life just gets too big for us to handle by ourselves.

The beautiful thing is that you're not alone.

I was in the same situation in 2004 and its now a distant memory - but I'll never forget what it felt like at the moment. It fucking hurt and was terrifying.

Most of y'all know what ended up happening, divorce, crash and burn, complete unraveling of my life. Then I quit medicating with alcohol and xanax, admitted that I was powerless over people places things and chemicals.

My particular solution involved 12 step recovery. I had to admit that I was making a huge struggle out of life.

Sock, please don't use a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

It's going to be ok and the future you will look back on this experience as a really valuable asset.

Just get help. Call your company's employee assistance line. Drop the pride and ego if that's what is holding you back.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Sandman 3435]

I'm returning to counseling this week. I last went 2 years ago for my anger issues. I really feel like I've left those behind but they have been replaced with anxiety. I'm almost scared to leave my house sometimes. Driving is almost terrifying. Last night, I felt like there was an immense amount of pressure on me, not physical but emontional. And that's stupid, I don't have any real pressure! Sure, I have the standard suburban Dad BS: mortgage, car payments, ect. but nothing like REAL PRESSURE, like "how will I feed my family" or "I need to steal to afford my kid's medication". I'm in the best place of my adult life, personally and financially. So why do I feel like I'm standing at the bottom of an impending avalanche sometimes?

Edited April 2, 2018 by Sandman

[cactusflinthead 27628]

Sandman, hoping the first sentence in your post helps answer the last one. But, I can tell you the list of unhappy and anxious people that have everything on paper looking great is quite large.
How many times have we heard, "He had it all. What could possibly have been wrong?"

I'm not licensed to do anything except hunt, fish, drive a vehicle, and spray chemicals. That's it. I am going to be the very first one to admit I don't have answers. I won't run off because you are hurt, but the most I can do is some mental first aid. If I am at the car wreck I am getting the hell out of the way when the EMTs roll up. They are equipped with the training and tools to do the job. I am not. I can't fix anyone. I tried. For ten years I tried to fix my ex. I could compel her to go, but I couldn't make her want to. It took me a long time to figure that out. About all I can do is listen and keep pointing you in the direction of professionals.

[Sandman 3435]

17 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Sandman, hoping the first sentence in your post helps answer the last one. But, I can tell you the list of unhappy and anxious people that have everything on paper looking great is quite large.
How many times have we heard, "He had it all. What could possibly have been wrong?"

I'm not licensed to do anything except hunt, fish, drive a vehicle, and spray chemicals. That's it. I am going to be the very first one to admit I don't have answers. I won't run off because you are hurt, but the most I can do is some mental first aid. If I am at the car wreck I am getting the hell out of the way when the EMTs roll up. They are equipped with the training and tools to do the job. I am not. I can't fix anyone. I tried. For ten years I tried to fix my ex. I could compel her to go, but I couldn't make her want to. It took me a long time to figure that out. About all I can do is listen and keep pointing you in the direction of professionals.

I really think it will. I felt like I was in a really good place after I was done with counseling last time. Maybe I'm like a car that just needs a new timing belt every 50k miles or so. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

[troph 25242]

Sock — the people in your life love you — including us and no one wants you gone. and even if that doesn’t move you, know that some days are good days and you don’t want to miss those good days ahead. So get yourself posting on this thread more and go see someone you can talk to. Talk therapy alone will help tremendously and in that context you can figure out if you need anything else. No need to solve all the problems just solve one — finding someone with professional skills who will listen. That’s the only thing you need to focus on right now.

[troph 25242]

Sandman, providing for a family is no small task. Is this all there is to life at middle age is a huge question and it weighs heavily. Please don’t discount that, because if you do you’re basically telling yourself to STFU and that ain’t gonna work and plus most of us carry that crushing weight of making ends meet as well. Good luck with the counselor!

[troph 25242]

I was talking to a friend yesterday about sensitivity.  the ups, downs and the pain of being a highly sensitive person.  don't get me wrong, I have a tough and resilient side and I don't think I could still be standing if I wasn't a tough bitch.  but the cost of engaging seems so effing high sometimes.  the first week of spring (so it felt) was great and now I'm settled back into a grind.  went to the game last night, had a happy hour before that.  I had a great weekend of hiking, tennis, on the lake, good food, cooper's smoked chicken in Llano, bluebonnets everywhere... I should be riding high.  and instead, I sit here working early in the morning and feeling like I just don't want to engage with anyone and that the fight to get ahead, the fight to make a difference and the fight to keep my head uncluttered from negative, depressive or anxious thoughts is too much.  when I smell the roses I wonder if others smell what I smell, but I'd give that up most days to have a clear and uncluttered mind.

[dad 557]

Anxiety is a bitch. It seems to hit at any time and yes long car rides do seem to just call for it. Just this weekend I met up with some of my fraternity brothers at Karbach brewery in Houston and I started feeling anxious on the way there when my friend was catching me up on his life. I mean seriously.. i'm about to have a great time, drink some beer, enjoy the weather ... no stress at all and I start feeling like I would rather be at home in bed alone. I don't know if it's just mental or if it's physical and related to my recent heart issues but I really hope it eventually goes away.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

Nice report card from my therapist yesterday:  "You should consider becoming a peer counselor. You and your wife have overcome ridiculous odds to stay married, and you've been in the system long enough to qualify. Most people who've been in mental health care for more than five years are either so screwed up they're no help to anyone, or else they're feeling better and want nothing to do with other crazy people."

So... yay?

[ImGolfn 77]

My ex step daughter had been having seizures and is struggling getting into a neurologist/endocrinologist.   She texted got an appointment for next week finally.   

Wednesday my new wife's 21 yr old son who had been a junior at UT has been home with us the last 10 days with his GF due to an altercation with his apartment roommate attempted suicide was brought to ER and ran out and has now been involuntarily held at West Oaks in Houston.    Tried to cut himself,  got blood on the wall.  Again I'm forcing myself to be strong for her but inside I just want to f'ing scream.

[burntorangebongos 10826]

Your life sounds pretty damn good, Troph. Maybe these quiet moments of anxiety and doubt make the roses smell sweeter.

[ImGolfn 77]

We were able to speak with him via phone tonight, he is doing well there, wife and his gf have plans to visit him there Sunday so that's one deep exhale I can take.  I do worry for him though, as super intelligent as he is, he has no ability to plan or structure on his own.