Depression, OCD, and whatever else ails you between the ears

[troph 25247]

No contact is the best approach, after years of trying I can confirm divorcing a parent is the right answer. Trans? Divorce? Anxiety or depression? Fucking walk in the park compared to dealing with a narcissistic parent. That shit will turn you sideways forever. Can’t even think about your inner child, she’s perpetually sobbing. All you can hope for is developing coping skills that society rewards, like achievement. Adult relationships can be okay but only if you watch your own back and check your selfishness at the door every single day. Relentless work dealing with it. I hope every untreated narcissistic parent, never mind. Hate is a terrible thing.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

34 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I am not going to holler about Macallan's better half getting it out. Seems like she's earned some latitude. 

@XYZ hope you and yours are hanging in there.

@Patricio Swayze I too might want to hit you up for some art. You have a helluva an eye.

@ImGolfn brother man you are still on the right side of the dirt for a reason. Thank you for checking in.

@Sandman I have not gone to see the father figure for a lot of the same reasons. I don't trust myself to not be an unknown carrier. Sounds like they got to him in time. Ain't nobody beating you up on it. Don't have to do it yourself. 

@OWLVIS I don't know how I missed all of that. I'm glad to hear you are doing better. You hang in there there too. Feisty night birds are necessary. 

@TwiceHorn

I saved you for last on purpose. It's the Karen thread isn't it? 

I'm reluctant to go whole hog here, but I'll say this much and see where it goes. 

Some of the mental problems we as a collective face are not easily mended. Like you've said many times in the AA thread you gotta want it. Narcissistic people don't want to change. I don't want to admit it, but there is a growing body of evidence that we're stuck with a portion of people that are unconvinced that they have a problem. There is a subreddit for the children of narcissistic parents. It's goddamn tragic. Limited contact, no contact, be the gray rock of unemotion and escape while the getting is good. 

Do they also go manic and depressive in between torturing the rest of us?

Sure. 

It would be a lot easier to get some help if they thought they needed it. As it is most of the time it's the rest of us that have to get some therapy for living with them.

I didn't say that it was going to be easy. 

Nevertheless, don't fucking give up. 

I love all y'all. 

 

 

The Karen thread is only the latest.  Laughing at videos on the internet is common.  We do it a lot here.  Some of the time the subjects of the videos are clearly nuts and my empathy thing kicks in.

I don't know where you draw the line on being accountable for your behavior and not accountable because you're sick in the head.

Us alkies rarely absolve one another or ourselves for our behavior while drinking.  But, we do sometimes ask for some understanding from the earth people.

Just something to consider and discuss.

And we don't often talk about the "manic" type disorders.  I know a bunch of bipolars but all are medicated and pretty controlled.  I have encountered some people that are diagnosed borderline personality disorder.  It seems to be trauma-related, particularly various childhood traumas (not necessarily sexual).  I don't really understand it, but they can be a little extra prickly for sure.

Edited July 7, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[cactusflinthead 27628]

I figure if we can't talk about it here then where the hell else can we go?

I'm game. 

 

[XYZ 2154]

What’s this talk about narcissistic parents?

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Maybe worth noting that there still seems to be quite a stigma attached to bipolar and schizoid stuff.  And these are the ones that respond to medication. 

The personality disorders apparently don't respond to medication, or not any that we've discovered.  They tend, as far as I can tell, to be environmentally caused.  But the wild thing is, the environment actually changes the brain.  It seems that cognitive-type therapies can help unfuck the brain some.

But, it seems like most mental illnesses, the illness tells the sufferer that the meds don't help and not to take them.  Bipolars tend to like being manic, and schizoids seem to like being delusional.  The depressed even have a species of this, although I don't think they actually like being depressed.  And therapy can be expensive, time-consuming, and unpleasant hard work.  

Thankfully, for me, AA provides most of the therapy I needed, although I did do some other stuff early in recovery.

Regardless of the type, as we alkies know, mental illness affects the family and friends of the sufferer almost as much as the sufferer.

Edited July 7, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[troph 25247]

Bipolar runs in my fam. None treated. None diagnosed. Bipolar is tricky as hell because how many ways mania can present and the cycle speeds. Heck I don’t even think they’ve fully recognized some of them. Rapid cycle is the newest and that can be super tricky.

I think the other thing is the whole damn lot of them are on a continuum. Clinical levels indicate a bright line of sorts but we all have anxiety, depression, elation going on mania from time to time and some more than others and some to a debilitating extent.

We focus on the debilitating cases but the high functioning or below the threshold cases are maybe just as common and present the more garden variety of silent sufferers.

But in the end it’s up the the person to take responsibility. Own your shit or deal with the consequences. He’s got his, she’s got hers, errybody got theirs.

[troph 25247]

What’s this talk about narcissistic parents?

Me and my siblings haven’t spoken to him in years, won’t go to his funeral and I’m the only one still working through that grief. What else would you like to know?

[Reagan1k 3043]

10 hours ago, troph said:

No contact is the best approach

@troph speaks the truth.  They play by a different set of rules so to speak.  You've lost the game with them before the 1st whistle blows.

It can range from frustrating to downright dangerous but if that trait is there it's not going to be reasoned, pleased, or loved out of the offender no matter how hard we try.  We always lose the war even when there are the occasional battle victories.  It never stops.

It gets even more complicated by the fact that there is often an underlying borderline personality disorder and the narcissism is the coping mechanism for dealing with the deeper lack of self worth.  I'm no expert, but I've come to understand it in my own terms that it is similar to the drink for an alcoholic like me.  The narcissism is a coping mechanism of the deeper disorder, just like my drinking was but a symptom of deeper conditions and causes.

Disengage and detach or proceed at your own risk, knowing you can't win.

 

[cactusflinthead 27628]

10 hours ago, XYZ said:

What’s this talk about narcissistic parents?

https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/

 

[troph 25247]

51 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

@troph speaks the truth.  They play by a different set of rules so to speak.  You've lost the game with them before the 1st whistle blows.

It can range from frustrating to downright dangerous but if that trait is there it's not going to be reasoned, pleased, or loved out of the offender no matter how hard we try.  We always lose the war even when there are the occasional battle victories.  It never stops.

It gets even more complicated by the fact that there is often an underlying borderline personality disorder and the narcissism is the coping mechanism for dealing with the deeper lack of self worth.  I'm no expert, but I've come to understand it in my own terms that it is similar to the drink for an alcoholic like me.  The narcissism is a coping mechanism of the deeper disorder, just like my drinking was but a symptom of deeper conditions and causes.

Disengage and detach or proceed at your own risk, knowing you can't win.

 

the two things I could not deal with were the delusions of grandeur about himself and the inability to see wrong doing.  he would come over for christmas or whatever the event was and the only thing he would do is go on and one about himself.  not ask his kids one single question.  for hours.  plenty of faux apologies (fuck those in the butthole I cannot deal with anyone who fake apologizes - you know the type - I'm such an awful human, I'm sorry I'm your dad, maybe I should just go away and never talk to you again - or some other bs line) and the other response to avoid sincere apologies, rage.  rage can DIAGF goddammit.  the straw that broke the camel's back for me was the religiosity and the anti-LGBTQ propaganda he spouts at me.  someone in his baptist group probably ridiculed him for being initially supportive of me, so he chose their friendship over me.  and if my speculation is wrong, then it's even worse, he simply chose dogma over his family.  fuck, that, bullshit.  you can't drone on and on about yourself, fuck up and not apologize or rage over it if asked, and then blatantly hate on me and expect that I show up to dote on you with hugs and affirmations of how amazing you are.  ain't happening.

and if you don't get out, it only gets worse.  you will die or get so bent, ordinary people who can give and receive love won't be able to be around you because you're so messed up.  it's like they are vampires and they need empathetic people to feed off of and the empath loses themselves and their ability to be in a normal, healthy relationship.

I'm all for mental health but if the narcissist isn't getting help and isn't aware of the depth of their condition and truly broken and working on it then you have to get away or you will shrivel up with a debilitating form of emotional and psychological arthritis for which the only cure is decades of counseling. 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by troph

[TwiceHorn 32104]

My Dad was mildly narcissistic, nothing near as pathological as above.  He also may have been mildly bipolar.

Later in life, after what our best guess is a bout with meningitis or some high-fever condition, he developed a seizure disorder or epilepsy (the theory is the fever or infection damaged a portion of his brain).

The seizures were bad enough, but tolerable.  As he aged, though, he developed what is called post-ictal psychosis, which means psychotic after a seizure.  It's not uncommon. So he'd have seizures, sometimes while doing stuff, and have physical accidents.  Then he'd go kind of bonkers for a few days after a seizure.

Finally, I got him an appointment with a neuropsychiatrist instead of just a neurologist.  He explained that a seizure, being an electrical storm of the brain, is like an ECT treatment.  For reasons we don't understand, ECT temporarily "unwires" the brain, and while it's "rewiring," depression vanishes and is potentially replaced by a very mild mania.  And in some cases, the brain rewires in such a way that depression is reduced or minimized.

Well, if you aren't depressed, that mild mania can be pretty manic, which is what Dad was.  More energy and desire to do things than his aging bod could handle.  He'd stay up all hours while on a walker and go outside and try to do stuff around the house. Sometimes at 2AM. And he had the prior history of having seizures while doing stuff (falling off ladders, once while driving before the whole seizure thing was figured out).  It was nuts.

And he had some vascular dementia, so the mania had some other unusual features (delusions, hallucinations) and stuck around a while.  Because of some of the stuff he said to the shrink in the manic state, he hypothesized that Dad was mildly narcissistic and maybe a little bipolar too before the seizures started and then provoked the mania/psychosis.  He could certainly go on work binges, either at work work or working in the yard, and had a pretty sharp temper at times, which is another mark of bipolar (and narcissism).

And both my parents were perfectionists or had that tendency.

So yeah, they fucked me up a little, but, they didn't know any better and did the best they could so what the hell.

Edited July 7, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[troph 25247]

That’s what I’m saying about below clinical levels or high functioning. A lot of silent sufferers out there and the mental health system has almost no answer for them/us.

[SHOOTER12 8890]

On 6/29/2020 at 10:03 AM, Goofyboy said:

Have you hit up Kewit? Last I heard they were still hiring. Good luck!

Are you meaning "Kiewit", or is it a different company with a similar spelling?

On 6/29/2020 at 10:20 AM, Patricio Swayze said:

Yeah I have. One of their recruiters called me a couple of weeks ago, but radio silence since.

Keep pounding that rock.  If it's Kiewit rather than Kewit I may be able to help.

[SHOOTER12 8890]

On 6/30/2020 at 4:48 PM, M12BH said:

Seriously.  Thanks.  For some reason it really does matter that you assholes are rooting to me.  And yeah, I count Troph's friendship as one of the better things that has occurred via my association with Surly.  

Onward we go....

Add one more asshole rooting for you.  I had lost track and gotten behind on this thread.  Now upon catching up I realize who you are now.

Thoughts, prayers and A Whole Lotta Love coming your way. (See what I did there?).

[Goofyboy 3438]

Keep pounding that rock.  If it's Kiewit rather than Kewit I may be able to help.

That’s them. I messed up the spelling. I have a few friends that got picked up over there.

[SHOOTER12 8890]

4 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

That’s them. I messed up the spelling. I have a few friends that got picked up over there.

DM coming

[SHOOTER12 8890]

22 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

That’s them. I messed up the spelling. I have a few friends that got picked up over there.

They're a good company to work for.  I've known their VP Doug Glaser for around 30 years.  Had a lot of good jobs with them and they are great people.

[Sandman 3435]

On 7/6/2020 at 11:08 PM, troph said:

Bipolar is tricky as hell because how many ways mania can present and the cycle speeds. 

I feel guilty about this but having to deal with my ex-wife and her bi-polar bullshit had made me unsympathetic towards people who claim to be bi-polar. I know that everyone is different and I shouldn't paint with a broad brush but it's a reflex. Honestly, I think I get triggered, as silly as that sounds. I immediately turn cold when I hear or read about someone saying they have it or their mom had it. I just have zero patience or desire to talk to or hear about those people. It's not fair to them, I know.

Also, it always seems to be women that have it, I rarely hear about guys with it. Maybe men don't bother to get diagnosed as much. 

[troph 25247]

51 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I feel guilty about this but having to deal with my ex-wife and her bi-polar bullshit had made me unsympathetic towards people who claim to be bi-polar. I know that everyone is different and I shouldn't paint with a broad brush but it's a reflex. Honestly, I think I get triggered, as silly as that sounds. I immediately turn cold when I hear or read about someone saying they have it or their mom had it. I just have zero patience or desire to talk to or hear about those people. It's not fair to them, I know.

Also, it always seems to be women that have it, I rarely hear about guys with it. Maybe men don't bother to get diagnosed as much. 

like narcissists, if untreated and not seriously working on their shit, then they wear you down and wear you out.  I'd be shocked if you had sympathy for bipolar folks based on having dealt with it in a marriage. 

[XYZ 2154]

9 hours ago, Sandman said:

I feel guilty about this but having to deal with my ex-wife and her bi-polar bullshit had made me unsympathetic towards people who claim to be bi-polar. I know that everyone is different and I shouldn't paint with a broad brush but it's a reflex. Honestly, I think I get triggered, as silly as that sounds. I immediately turn cold when I hear or read about someone saying they have it or their mom had it. I just have zero patience or desire to talk to or hear about those people. It's not fair to them, I know.

Also, it always seems to be women that have it, I rarely hear about guys with it. Maybe men don't bother to get diagnosed as much. 

100% understand how you feel. Getting triggered by this shit doesn’t sound silly to me. Happens to me, too. Like, PTSD and shit.

[Helobious 9825]

On 7/13/2020 at 9:43 PM, Sandman said:

I feel guilty about this but having to deal with my ex-wife and her bi-polar bullshit had made me unsympathetic towards people who claim to be bi-polar. I know that everyone is different and I shouldn't paint with a broad brush but it's a reflex. Honestly, I think I get triggered, as silly as that sounds. I immediately turn cold when I hear or read about someone saying they have it or their mom had it. I just have zero patience or desire to talk to or hear about those people. It's not fair to them, I know.

Also, it always seems to be women that have it, I rarely hear about guys with it. Maybe men don't bother to get diagnosed as much. 

There’s nothing wrong with this attitude, so long as you’re ok with no one taking time to understand or care about your problems. You’d be a hypocrite otherwise.

[cactusflinthead 27628]

Y'all doing ok over here?

@ImGolfn how's your joy level?

 

Parable of the farmer. If we leave no better seeds than that, I think we have done well. 

Grow. 

You don't know what tomorrow brings. I'll stand here and cheer for you. Buy your art. Go gear up for the show.

Keep on rocking. Hurtling through space on a funky rock full of life. 

We're all in this together. 

Keep your stick on the ice. 

[ImGolfn 77]

On 7/17/2020 at 11:23 PM, cactusflinthead said:

Y'all doing ok over here?

@ImGolfn how's your joy level?

 

Parable of the farmer. If we leave no better seeds than that, I think we have done well. 

Grow. 

You don't know what tomorrow brings. I'll stand here and cheer for you. Buy your art. Go gear up for the show.

Keep on rocking. Hurtling through space on a funky rock full of life. 

We're all in this together. 

Keep your stick on the ice. 

I'm hanging in i suppose.  The 30th of this month will mark 4 year anniversary of Sammie's suicide. Trying to work all i can keep me busy.

[troph 25247]

Last night was awful. Yesterday I sat at my desk and stared at the screen for two hours at least. It was the culmination of a week long spiral down. Ending in a “what’s the point” evening last night. I wasted the night until I fell asleep.

My mental health equation is simple really: eat well, play games that require physical exertion (tennis, surf, etc), read even in small increments, be in nature, think, listen to music not watch TV, refrain from alcohol, follow the sun (stop to watch sunsets etc) and be productive at work. I mean something like that I’m sure there’s more to it. But when I fall down in a hole and the way out isn’t knowable I despair and think so many bad things.

This morning I decided to reengage. Listening to Vivaldi, eating well (day 3, losing Covid weight), lots of water, reading and headed to the tennis court for a date with the ball machine. I stumbled on these passages and they resonate so well for me.





Knowing I’m not special, my condition is human, and reading it in an artful, intellectual way that makes me reengage my thoughtful nature might have me on the mend.

The Melancholy parts are the best. I found my self exuberant saying yes!!

It always seems a battle, the self awareness is a double edged sword but I’m not sure I would trade it for ignorance.

Here’s to hoping my solace of being sanely insane brings about an upswing.

Take care of yourselves, I know I’m trying over here.

[tx 3 putt 78739]

go talk with someone, find some support 

[XYZ 2154]

There’s a little book I like titled “The subtle art of not giving a f*ck”. Maybe my favorite chapter is “you’re not special”. I have found comfort in that.

[The Dark Knight 175]

Hope you all are doing well.  A sobering yet helpful article about today’s struggles:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/14/health/young-people-suicidal-ideation-wellness/index.html

[Axle Hongsnort 211]

Can anyone recommend a family counselor in Austin focused on adolescents struggling with real issues, potentially depression?

[TwiceHorn 32104]

7 minutes ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

Can anyone recommend a family counselor in Austin focused on adolescents struggling with real issues, potentially depression?

Curious why you specify "family" counselor?  They tend to be focused on familial and relationship issues among families, whereas an individual therapist helps with issues such as depression.  Granted, depression or other problems in an individual can cause familial problems, I think they're probably best dealt with separately, meaning not completely independently, but most likely with a separate counselor for each.

@KYHorn is a marital counselor, I believe, which probably includes the more general family.  Not sure where he's located (Kentucky?  Lubeville?), but may be able to offer advice.

Edited August 25, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Axle Hongsnort 211]

Curious why you specify "family" counselor?  They tend to be focused on familial and relationship issues among families, whereas an individual therapist helps with issues such as depression.  Granted, depression or other problems in an individual can cause familial problems, I think they're probably best dealt with separately, meaning not completely independently, but most likely with a separate counselor for each.
[mention=1158]KYHorn[/mention] is a marital counselor, I believe, which probably includes the more general family.  Not sure where he's located (Kentucky?  Lubeville?), but may be able to offer advice.

Thanks for the reply. My oldest kid, 14, is having some very tough times. We’re looking for someone that specializes in kids / teens, but tangentially helps the parents through the situation.

[XYZ 2154]

9 hours ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

Can anyone recommend a family counselor in Austin focused on adolescents struggling with real issues, potentially depression?

I wish you good luck. I have a 17 year old who has basically been a nightmare over the past year. All of the behaviors attributed to “troubled” teenagers, my kid did them. I’m very pessimistic about the state of mental health science, and specifically about how it’s set up here in Texas. Psychologists test, but they don’t do therapy or prescribe medication. Therapists do therapy, but they don’t test or prescribe. Psychiatrists prescribe and some do therapy, but they don’t test. Also, good luck finding a psychiatrist who will give you the time of day. The whole prescribing medication for mental health issues is kind of like this: I think you have this disorder, take these pills...(month later)...did they help? No? They made you MORE suicidal? Well then let’s up the dose...It’s throwing shit at a wall to see if anything sticks, sometimes with catastrophic results. My kid attempted suicide while under SSRIs. Be aware that there are countries that have banned the use of SSRIs for teenagers and young adults.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

34 minutes ago, XYZ said:

I wish you good luck. I have a 17 year old who has basically been a nightmare over the past year. All of the behaviors attributed to “troubled” teenagers, my kid did them. I’m very pessimistic about the state of mental health science, and specifically about how it’s set up here in Texas. Psychologists test, but they don’t do therapy or prescribe medication. Therapists do therapy, but they don’t test or prescribe. Psychiatrists prescribe and some do therapy, but they don’t test. Also, good luck finding a psychiatrist who will give you the time of day. The whole prescribing medication for mental health issues is kind of like this: I think you have this disorder, take these pills...(month later)...did they help? No? They made you MORE suicidal? Well then let’s up the dose...It’s throwing shit at a wall to see if anything sticks, sometimes with catastrophic results. My kid attempted suicide while under SSRIs. Be aware that there are countries that have banned the use of SSRIs for teenagers and young adults.

Very true about medications.  It is a game of pin the tail on the donkey.  And since it takes about a month for them to become effective, and also a period of withdrawal, it can take a lot of time and patience.

Something else I have learned along the way.  The so-called personality disorders, borderline, narcissistic, histrionic, aren't yet "treatable" with medications, rather by pretty intense therapy.  And it can be hard to distinguish them from more "organic" brain chemistry disorders that do and in many cases primarily respond to medication.  Anxiety and OCD seem to more or less fall in the "can't treat with medication" bucket, as well.

It's a bitch.  Persist, as they say.  Good luck to all.

[KYHorn 17635]

10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Curious why you specify "family" counselor?  They tend to be focused on familial and relationship issues among families, whereas an individual therapist helps with issues such as depression.  Granted, depression or other problems in an individual can cause familial problems, I think they're probably best dealt with separately, meaning not completely independently, but most likely with a separate counselor for each.

@KYHorn is a marital counselor, I believe, which probably includes the more general family.  Not sure where he's located (Kentucky?  Lubeville?), but may be able to offer advice.

You're correct, by and large. Some LMFTs will have a marriage/family background, but then decide they are also really interested in depression, anxiety, body image, etc and start to specialize in that as well. Same with LPCs- they may decide they have interest in marriage/family and seek training in that area, but it's impractical to change licenses in either case. So there is some overlap that varies by counselor/therapist. I tend to stick to marriage and family- especially couples- issues, but I don't do much clinical stuff anymore. And yes, I'm in Lubeville.

9 hours ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

Thanks for the reply. My oldest kid, 14, is having some very tough times. We’re looking for someone that specializes in kids / teens, but tangentially helps the parents through the situation.

I'll PM you. Don't have too many contacts in Austin anymore, but I know a few. 

[TwiceHorn 32104]

9 hours ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

Thanks for the reply. My oldest kid, 14, is having some very tough times. We’re looking for someone that specializes in kids / teens, but tangentially helps the parents through the situation.

Ah, gotcha.  You can probably get away with a single therapist that specializes in adolescents and occasionally will do a family session to deal with those issues.  That kind of thing is pretty common in substance abuse situations.  Sometimes, though, the family issues are more than just a by-product of the patient's problems, and that might call for more intense family therapy, and more than one therapist.

Be aware, though, that part of the patient-therapist relationship is trust that leads to honesty from the patient.  If the patient feels like the therapist is going to rat them out to mom n dad, that can be a problem and one that renders the therapy almost useless.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

17 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

You're correct, by and large. Some LMFTs will have a marriage/family background, but then decide they are also really interested in depression, anxiety, body image, etc and start to specialize in that as well. Same with LPCs- they may decide they have interest in marriage/family and seek training in that area, but it's impractical to change licenses in either case. So there is some overlap that varies by counselor/therapist. I tend to stick to marriage and family- especially couples- issues, but I don't do much clinical stuff anymore. And yes, I'm in Lubeville.

I'll PM you. Don't have too many contacts in Austin anymore, but I know a few. 

I forgot about the license issue.  It occurs to me that it may be beneficial to run down the licenses for us and what their "specialties" are.

[KYHorn 17635]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I forgot about the license issue.  It occurs to me that it may be beneficial to run down the licenses for us and what their "specialties" are.

It varies by state obviously, and there's a whole lot of overlap in what each can do- especially because each organization is constantly trying to preserve their field and carve out and expand their territory, but the main masters-level licences are:

LPC: these are counselors who are trained more heavily in things like CBT, DBT, psychoanalysis- whatever approach they adopt. It's a more broad field with each counselor usually having a few areas of specialty, including depression, anxiety, drug addiction (note there are some specialized licenses for alcohol and drug counselors), trauma, body image, etc (there are hundreds). 

LMFT: marriage and family therapists who have specialized training in dealing with systems and systemic issues, but could also include child-focused issues, play therapy, etc. Again, they often cross-over with LPCs. My training was in a program where the LPC and LMFT tracks had mostly the same classes, so my background may be unique in that way, but many LMFTs will work with issues that may traditionally fall under the LPC area (depression, anxiety, addiction, trauma, etc) and use the standard (and research-based) modalities to these issues (CBT, psychotherapy, and so on). 

LSW: social worker. I'm not as well versed in this area, but they work more often in govt and non-profit agencies and, among other things, help families navigate complex governmental organizations and regulations to find resources, provide practical tips for using their individual and family resources/strengths to overcome whatever financial, systemic, or psychological hurdles they may be facing. They have some training in basic clinical skills and modalities and many of them do end up specializing in things like trauma or childhood issues, and may even work primarily in a private practice, seeing clients much like LPCs and LMFTs. 

LPP: psychological practitioner. Not as common, and I'm not too familiar with it, but it's basically a masters-level trained psychologist. The skeptic might say this is the psychologists' attempt to expand from PhD/PsyD to masters-level clinical work as well, but they likely take similar classes as an LPC, perhaps with a little more emphasis on psychological research.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

2 hours ago, KYHorn said:

It varies by state obviously, and there's a whole lot of overlap in what each can do- especially because each organization is constantly trying to preserve their field and carve out and expand their territory, but the main masters-level licences are:

LPC: these are counselors who are trained more heavily in things like CBT, DBT, psychoanalysis- whatever approach they adopt. It's a more broad field with each counselor usually having a few areas of specialty, including depression, anxiety, drug addiction (note there are some specialized licenses for alcohol and drug counselors), trauma, body image, etc (there are hundreds). 

LMFT: marriage and family therapists who have specialized training in dealing with systems and systemic issues, but could also include child-focused issues, play therapy, etc. Again, they often cross-over with LPCs. My training was in a program where the LPC and LMFT tracks had mostly the same classes, so my background may be unique in that way, but many LMFTs will work with issues that may traditionally fall under the LPC area (depression, anxiety, addiction, trauma, etc) and use the standard (and research-based) modalities to these issues (CBT, psychotherapy, and so on). 

LSW: social worker. I'm not as well versed in this area, but they work more often in govt and non-profit agencies and, among other things, help families navigate complex governmental organizations and regulations to find resources, provide practical tips for using their individual and family resources/strengths to overcome whatever financial, systemic, or psychological hurdles they may be facing. They have some training in basic clinical skills and modalities and many of them do end up specializing in things like trauma or childhood issues, and may even work primarily in a private practice, seeing clients much like LPCs and LMFTs. 

LPP: psychological practitioner. Not as common, and I'm not too familiar with it, but it's basically a masters-level trained psychologist. The skeptic might say this is the psychologists' attempt to expand from PhD/PsyD to masters-level clinical work as well, but they likely take similar classes as an LPC, perhaps with a little more emphasis on psychological research.

That's good stuff.  Thank you.  I think that adds to the thread.

[ROFL BOX 6655]

Totally fucking stuck today.  S.  T.  U.  C.  K.

& The internet isn't helping.  4 places to go today, don't want to leave the house.

[Helobious 9825]

Im sure it’s like this for all males in all cultures, but I can only speak from my experience as a Latino... seeking mental help/talking about your problems is still very much a sign of weakness. As a man if you’re ever seen crying when you’re not at a funeral or the birth of your child you can forget about anyone around keeping their respect for you. Machismo over everything. I quite literally have not shed a tear in over 8 years, and I have an extremely hard time opening up to and connecting with others, which makes relationships difficult. I used to struggle with anger issues as a youth, punching holes in walls, fighting, etc. I’ve at least eliminated that from my psyche. I also no longer really get into deep depression, with those very real suicidal thoughts I dealt with. But I’ve also seemed to eliminate the highs of joy and happiness I used to feel, along with excitement. I’m afraid I’ve conditioned myself into a perpetual state of numbness. 

[ROFL BOX 6655]

Finally got out, 2 of my 4 needed appointments & barely back home to change into my Scout gear & take Monster to the meeting.

Now it's after midnight & I should be in bed.

Got 3 spots to catch up on tomorrow + 1 parts quote from Depot & a contract to write... I have zero motivation for any of that.

[cactusflinthead 27628]

@KYHorn

That's very helpful on the list of licenses. If you have any kind of connections I'm betting you'll get some DMs if you want it.

When @XYZ was going through it with his daughter I literally hit up the Google machine. It's not like going to find a GP and that's hard enough. I pointed my daughter in the direction of the internet and said, "You pick one. I'm not the one that is going to have to trust them enough to talk." I don't think that's going to work for everyone.

I'm gonna concur with the idea that some mental problems are best dealt with therapy. The problem with that is the same one as the AA thread. Step one is figuring out, accepting, knowing that you have a problem. That's not going to happen under coercion, maybe. I can't sit here and say that at no time has court mandated therapy been effective. But, it's not going to work well without a willing participant. If you get a divorce in Texas you have to attend co-parenting classes if you have minor children. No matter how many dollars you have. It didn't make one iota of difference in how my ex behaved as a parent. I can only hope that a handful of people actually fucking listen and do what they tell you. 

Then sometimes it's ok to get drugs. It works for some people. What works for one person is not necessarily going to work for another. We're talking about the human brain and all of bazillion things that make us who we are. There is no one size fits all method. Trends and tendencies, yeah I'll concede that. But, you and I are each of us on our own paths. I'll help as much as I can, but it's on you friend to seize your own life.

I got some rep from page 1 that I retrieved from TOS during the great migration. 

It never ceases to amaze me.

[cactusflinthead 27628]

On 8/26/2020 at 12:13 AM, ROFL BOX said:

Finally got out, 2 of my 4 needed appointments & barely back home to change into my Scout gear & take Monster to the meeting.

Now it's after midnight & I should be in bed.

Got 3 spots to catch up on tomorrow + 1 parts quote from Depot & a contract to write... I have zero motivation for any of that.

I don't know what gets me out of bed some mornings. It helps that the dog is ready to go pee too.

[KYHorn 17635]

42 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

@KYHorn

That's very helpful on the list of licenses. If you have any kind of connections I'm betting you'll get some DMs if you want it.

When @XYZ was going through it with his daughter I literally hit up the Google machine. It's not like going to find a GP and that's hard enough. I pointed my daughter in the direction of the internet and said, "You pick one. I'm not the one that is going to have to trust them enough to talk." I don't think that's going to work for everyone.

I'm gonna concur with the idea that some mental problems are best dealt with therapy. The problem with that is the same one as the AA thread. Step one is figuring out, accepting, knowing that you have a problem. That's not going to happen under coercion, maybe. I can't sit here and say that at no time has court mandated therapy been effective. But, it's not going to work well without a willing participant. If you get a divorce in Texas you have to attend co-parenting classes if you have minor children. No matter how many dollars you have. It didn't make one iota of difference in how my ex behaved as a parent. I can only hope that a handful of people actually fucking listen and do what they tell you. 

Then sometimes it's ok to get drugs. It works for some people. What works for one person is not necessarily going to work for another. We're talking about the human brain and all of bazillion things that make us who we are. There is no one size fits all method. Trends and tendencies, yeah I'll concede that. But, you and I are each of us on our own paths. I'll help as much as I can, but it's on you friend to seize your own life.

I got some rep from page 1 that I retrieved from TOS during the great migration. 

It never ceases to amaze me.

Happy to help however I can. I know at least a handful of counselors/therapists in all the major Texas cities. I also suggest PsychologyToday. It may take some trial and error to find a person you connect with, trust, and who fits your needs. But asking around for recommendations and checking out their psych today profiles or websites may expedite the process.

Edited August 28, 2020 by KYHorn

[cactusflinthead 27628]

Psychology Today was one of the better hits I found. Guhgreed 

[ROFL BOX 6655]

What really sucks is when you try to explain something to your spouse (or POSSLQ... Look up that term; it's an old one) about maybe getting counseling or therapy - some kind of "outside of the family circle" help & they say "What?  What do you need that for?".

It's like dropping a 2,100 lb. JDAM on the bridge you're trying to build.

[cactusflinthead 27628]

Then you go by yourself. You want to go talk and she doesn't? Fine. Go anyhow 

[Reagan1k 3043]

On 8/31/2020 at 12:55 AM, ROFL BOX said:

What really sucks is when you try to explain something to your spouse (or POSSLQ... Look up that term; it's an old one) about maybe getting counseling or therapy - some kind of "outside of the family circle" help & they say "What?  What do you need that for?".

It's like dropping a 2,100 lb. JDAM on the bridge you're trying to build.

One thought on that matter is that sometimes (often) the...... "What?  What do you need that for?"  response is an emotional reaction due to the other party feeling threatened or trying to sort out what you think is wrong with them.  It is a fear centered question / reaction.  Rarely is someone oblivious to problems in a relationship.

I am guilty as charged when it comes to that as I was approached about my spouse who wanted to go to a counselor during my drinking days.  I reacted with panic- Why, what's wrong, why do you need to do that....on and on.  I wore her out with questions.  It actually caused her to drop the issue and not seek what she needed; further driving a wedge between us until I finally got sober.

Your spouse is probably threatened or worried about what might come from counseling.  Maybe rightfully so and maybe that fear is unfounded....but fear is fear and it causes reactions.

My suggestion would be to go and invite them to attend if they want....but cheerfully go regardless of their attendance.  Most people will, at some point or another, decide they need "representation" if there is a meeting about the family / marriage and will acquiesce. 

The one exception would be a narcissist who has been called out before, or has an inkling that they may be called out in general.  They tend to avoid any outside party that might see things through a clear lens and not agree with their altered perception.

Approach your spouse in a loving way, tell them you are going, you think counselling will strengthen the relationship, and tell them they are free to attend if they want.

Either way you'll get some help....maybe as a couple or maybe as an individual........ but seeking help isn't wrong in this situation.   

Edited September 2, 2020 by Reagan1k

[Rip76 5022]

So this week, all of this shit finally got to me.  
Bad.

 All of it.  My brother passed in May, My mother in law in June, The Covid, The violence on TV, The News, The total abnormality of everything.  

I’m not normally a depressed person.  But it’s almost like I don’t even want to get out of bed most days.  I’ve run out of things to do with my son (who splits every other day with his mother and myself).

I love riding my bike, or working out and don’t even feel like doing that.

Funny, when the first lockdown happened in March, I said to myself “Well if we’re going to be be in this for a while, it’ll be the perfect time to work on my script.”  I think I’ve written 3 paragraphs.   I don’t even feel creative.

Ugh.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2692]

On 9/4/2020 at 7:14 PM, Rip76 said:

So this week, all of this shit finally got to me.  
Bad.

 All of it.  My brother passed in May, My mother in law in June, The Covid, The violence on TV, The News, The total abnormality of everything.  

I’m not normally a depressed person.  But it’s almost like I don’t even want to get out of bed most days.  I’ve run out of things to do with my son (who splits every other day with his mother and myself).

I love riding my bike, or working out and don’t even feel like doing that.

Funny, when the first lockdown happened in March, I said to myself “Well if we’re going to be be in this for a while, it’ll be the perfect time to work on my script.”  I think I’ve written 3 paragraphs.   I don’t even feel creative.

Ugh.

I don't look at this thread ever really, but I saw your post was on Friday and just wondering how you're doing. I can relate to nearly every word. Not doing well but between work, family, and neighbors, seems like you always have to put on your competent face. People talk about others struggling, but seems like that should be reserved for the super hard luck cases who are unemployed, business going under, etc. Anyway, I hear you. 

[Rip76 5022]

On 9/6/2020 at 11:12 PM, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

I don't look at this thread ever really, but I saw your post was on Friday and just wondering how you're doing. I can relate to nearly every word. Not doing well but between work, family, and neighbors, seems like you always have to put on your competent face. People talk about others struggling, but seems like that should be reserved for the super hard luck cases who are unemployed, business going under, etc. Anyway, I hear you. 

Thanks.  

I think for me it's the "Groundhog Day-ness" of the whole thing. 

And added to that, seeing the violence and chaos in the streets, and just a general uncertainty going forward in life.  (Up is down, left is right, etc.)