Depression, OCD, and whatever else ails you between the ears

[cactusflinthead 27598]

4 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

How many of you have struggled with discovering your purpose in life? What did you do to figure it all out? 

I've thought about this since I read it. 

The colonel's purpose was to fry chicken.

But, what about Joan of Arc?

 

Edit: @XYZ said it already, but existential angst yo! Hell yes I struggle with it.

Edited November 24, 2020 by cactusflinthead

[TwiceHorn 31457]

4 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

How many of you have struggled with discovering your purpose in life? What did you do to figure it all out? 

This may be particularly applicable only to addicts/alcoholics, but it is also a mainstay of mindfulness, which is a big theme in Buddhism.

But stated cornily, if you have one foot in the past, and one foot in the future, you're pissing all over the present.  Or, all you have is today, the past is over and the future is not guaranteed.  Or, everything is impermanent, all you have got, all that is real is the right here, right now.

When you meaningfully adopt that type of thinking, along with some other things like "be a man for others" and "just do the next right thing," big scary questions like what is my purpose either go away or become meaningless.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

About this time yesterday this thread was at 29440. It's 29519 as of this minute.

Y'all keep on rocking.

[Bogeywon 2519]

On 11/23/2020 at 4:03 PM, cactusflinthead said:

That took some guts to hit post. Congratulations, that's step one.

The deserving part deserves some further discussion. 

Seems like @BearSchlong or was it @Reagan1k had a good handle on this phenomenon.

I'll mark a spot to remind myself to get back here at the house.

 @cactusflinthead 

 

On 11/23/2020 at 4:27 PM, troph said:

I see you. There’s nothing wrong with you. I don’t know you well but I know you are valuable, and your pain is real and ok.

 

On 11/23/2020 at 6:30 PM, Reagan1k said:

You are deserving of good things and love.  Feelings aren’t facts, although at times they can feel as such.

You’ve done the right thing by speaking up and realizing that you “feel” like that, even though that’s not reality.  Just because our mind thinks somethings, that doesn’t make it so-  again- feelings aren’t facts.

There are numerous things that could be firing in your head, life circumstances or imbalances in your body  that might lead to those feelings.

What’s important now is to acknowledge them, understand that it’s not the reality, and seek help to identify what’s causing those feelings.  It could be physiological or psychological causes, but it’s not true that you are undeserving.

A trusted, closed mouth friend at least, and a professional at best would be the important confidants at this point to help deconstruct those feelings and determine the root cause.  From there, you’ll have a pathway forward.

God speed, and I pray you find some comfort soon, along with the necessary assistance to get some relief from the thoughts that are lying to your heart.

Your posting here is proof that your heart knows what your head is doing isn’t factual or the truth. 

Just seeing all this. Still struggling. I wake up at 6am no matter what time I fall asleep. When I wake up the panic attack is in full swing. Normally gets so bad I throw up which weirdly adds some relief. I’m losing weight because the minute I start chewing I feel like I’m going to throw up. Working with 3 therapist right now. Have a video appointment tomorrow and monday. Thanks for all the posts. I’m starting to get mad now. I don’t want to be evicted from my life and happiness anymore. 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

Wow. We're going to be here. I'd give you a big hug if I could.

Hang in there. You're heading in the right direction.

[Reagan1k 3024]

@Bogeywon  this Daily Meditation made me think of you- Applies regardless of who or what your higher power may be.....

“He that has eyes to see, let him see.” To the seeing eye, the world is good. Pray for a seeing eye, to see the purpose of God in everything good. Pray for enough faith to see God’s care in His dealings with you. Try to see how He has brought you safely through your past life so that now you can be of use in the world. With the eyes of faith you can see God’s care and purpose everywhere.

[Bogeywon 2519]

Just wanted to update everyone. Today is the first day since Sunday that I’ve felt good waking up. No attacks. Making thanksgiving dinner today. Feels good to feel good. Had a video call with a new therapist and it went great. It’s still a uphill battle from here but I’m gonna fight this shit so it better pack a lunch  

[TwiceHorn 31457]

On 11/24/2020 at 5:43 PM, TwiceHorn said:

This may be particularly applicable only to addicts/alcoholics, but it is also a mainstay of mindfulness, which is a big theme in Buddhism.

But stated cornily, if you have one foot in the past, and one foot in the future, you're pissing all over the present.  Or, all you have is today, the past is over and the future is not guaranteed.  Or, everything is impermanent, all you have got, all that is real is the right here, right now.

When you meaningfully adopt that type of thinking, along with some other things like "be a man for others" and "just do the next right thing," big scary questions like what is my purpose either go away or become meaningless.

An additional comment on the meaning/purpose of life and existential angst.

At some point, I think everyone feels a bit rudderless in life.  I remember at one point at work looking up at the graduation date on my second diploma and kind of thinking "I lost the thread" after that date.

You settle into your career, your family, and you kind of think "is this it"?  Almost everyone I know has gone through some variety of this.  We spend roughly our first quarter century fulfilling long-term-ish goals:  graduations, athletic achievements, marriage & children, etc. etc.  And at some point, there aren't really long-term goals, or the ones that are there (raising your children, hitting retirement, etc.) are a bit inevitable regardless of what you do, although your actions could have major impact on how well those things go.

So, becoming fully mindful and living in the present may be the ultimate solution and may be too spiritual for many.  But just shortening your focus or outlook and setting smaller, nearer-term goals may be the solution.  "Smaller things."  And, of course, many or most times, those smaller things are the best things.

[troph 24789]

1 hour ago, Bogeywon said:

Just wanted to update everyone. Today is the first day since Sunday that I’ve felt good waking up. No attacks. Making thanksgiving dinner today. Feels good to feel good. Had a video call with a new therapist and it went great. It’s still a uphill battle from here but I’m gonna fight this shit so it better pack a lunch  

Love this.  And if you ever wonder, we need you here. You have a lot to offer us.  So damn straight, we all ought to buckle up because you’re going to be okay.

[XYZ 2154]

How does a person build self-esteem? How do you even help a person understand that they have low self-esteem? I feel like it’s a bit like trying to explain to a blind person what it’s like to see: it may make sense to you, but not at all to the other person.

[BearSchlong 8089]

For me personally, I get self esteem by esteemable acts.

[Reagan1k 3024]

Only my experience but when someone is suffering from what many would call low self esteem what I usually see is an overwhelming focus on self, but through a negative lens. 

If one can focus or be focused on serving others / looking outward, they can’t help but get some relief.

It’s moving that magnifying glass that’s concentrating a hurtful beam of light off of self, and flipping it around so the light spreads evenly and comfortably on to others. 

[YChang 3443]

I hope I’m not being insensitive to share a link to this opinion piece  from the NYTimes: https://nyti.ms/3pXngQt

It’s about the work and life of Philip Brickman, a psychologist known for his work on happiness and his own struggle with depression. Some interesting nuggets in there from his colleagues and family. I don’t know... we all want to be happy right? But true happiness is fleeting and damn hard to come by in my opinion. So is it ok to simply get by with being content more often than not? 

Edited November 28, 2020 by YChang

[troph 24789]

A lot can be said for being content, it may actually be the achievable where happiness in the sense of euphoria or a perpetual state of joy isn’t.

[TwiceHorn 31457]

4 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Only my experience but when someone is suffering from what many would call low self esteem what I usually see is an overwhelming focus on self, but through a negative lens. 

If one can focus or be focused on serving others / looking outward, they can’t help but get some relief.

It’s moving that magnifying glass that’s concentrating a hurtful beam of light off of self, and flipping it around so the light spreads evenly and comfortably on to others. 

Well-stated.

I have used the term inward-dwellingness.  It's not quite the same as selfishness (one can be quite generous and/or considerate of others) or self-centeredness and it doesn't or shouldn't have the ignominy that go with those terms, because it is a condition that is primarily hurtful to the self, and secondarily to others.

[XYZ 2154]

7 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Only my experience but when someone is suffering from what many would call low self esteem what I usually see is an overwhelming focus on self, but through a negative lens. 

If one can focus or be focused on serving others / looking outward, they can’t help but get some relief.

It’s moving that magnifying glass that’s concentrating a hurtful beam of light off of self, and flipping it around so the light spreads evenly and comfortably on to others. 

Thank you.

[TwiceHorn 31457]

13 hours ago, YChang said:

I hope I’m not being insensitive to share a link to this opinion piece  from the NYTimes: https://nyti.ms/3pXngQt

It’s about the work and life of Philip Brickman, a psychologist known for his work on happiness and his own struggle with depression. Some interesting nuggets in there from his colleagues and family. I don’t know... we all want to be happy right? But true happiness is fleeting and damn hard to come by in my opinion. So is it ok to simply get by with being content more often than not? 

Yes, I think that's the answer.  Content, serene, at peace.

[Bogeywon 2519]

14 hours ago, YChang said:

I hope I’m not being insensitive to share a link to this opinion piece  from the NYTimes: https://nyti.ms/3pXngQt

It’s about the work and life of Philip Brickman, a psychologist known for his work on happiness and his own struggle with depression. Some interesting nuggets in there from his colleagues and family. I don’t know... we all want to be happy right? But true happiness is fleeting and damn hard to come by in my opinion. So is it ok to simply get by with being content more often than not? 

Now that I’m seeing clearly my happiness comes  from accepting what is in my life. If that makes sense. For example I embrace my kids (making them breakfast every morning, making them dinner, changing diapers, putting my 5 year old to bed ect). I don’t look at it as work because it makes me feel good to help them and be with them as well as sharing those moments with them. When I’m robbed of these moments because of anxiety attacks and depression that’s what rips my soul out. 

[TwiceHorn 31457]

1 hour ago, Bogeywon said:

Now that I’m seeing clearly my happiness comes  from accepting what is in my life. If that makes sense. For example I embrace my kids (making them breakfast every morning, making them dinner, changing diapers, putting my 5 year old to bed ect). I don’t look at it as work because it makes me feel good to help them and be with them as well as sharing those moments with them. When I’m robbed of these moments because of anxiety attacks and depression that’s what rips my soul out. 

Again, from AA:  Acceptance is the answer.

Quote

unless I accept life completely on life’s terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes.

Perhaps the best thing of all for me is to remember that my serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations. The higher my expectations of…and other people are, the lower is my serenity. I can watch my serenity level rise when I discard my expectations. But then my “rights” try to move in, and they too can force my serenity level down. I have to discard my “rights,” as well as my expectations, by asking myself, How important is it, really?

I must keep my magic magnifying mind on my acceptance and off my expectations, for my serenity is directly proportional to my level of acceptance. When I remember this, I can see I’ve never had it so good.

https://alcoholicsguidetoalcoholism.com/2015/07/02/acceptance-recovery/

Substitute anxiety, depression etc. for alcoholism and it is some good stuff on the nature of the problem, and of the solution.  The amount of quality cognitive behavioral therapy contained in Alcoholics Anonymous (the big book), written in 1939 when I don't think the term even existed, continues to astonish me.

At least partly, anyway.  I am not about to contend that anxiety and depression are solely creatures of "stinkin thinkin," but that is a component of it.  Altering your thought processes will make a difference, but it may not eliminate the need for medication, at least as pertains to depression.  AFAIK, there is no really good medication answer for anxiety.

Edited November 29, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[BearSchlong 8089]

One very helpful slogan that gets me into acceptance is "I have to learn to want what I have."

Let's face it, what I have, where I am, who I'm with, what I do - thats my reality, right? If its reality and I'm not accepting it, (I daresay, even enjoying it) I'm not being present.

Living on a spiritual basis means accepting where God has me at any given time.

Which admittedly sucks sometimes, but I've learned thats just part of life.

[TwiceHorn 31457]

18 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

One very helpful slogan that gets me into acceptance is "I have to learn to want what I have."

Let's face it, what I have, where I am, who I'm with, what I do - thats my reality, right? If its reality and I'm not accepting it, (I daresay, even enjoying it) I'm not being present.

Living on a spiritual basis means accepting where God has me at any given time.

Which admittedly sucks sometimes, but I've learned thats just part of life.


 

That kind of merges acceptance and mindfulness.  I think they are related, but I am kind of slow on this spiritual stuff.

[Dbeasy 15048]

One very helpful slogan that gets me into acceptance is "I have to learn to want what I have."

Let's face it, what I have, where I am, who I'm with, what I do - thats my reality, right? If its reality and I'm not accepting it, (I daresay, even enjoying it) I'm not being present.

Living on a spiritual basis means accepting where God has me at any given time.

Which admittedly sucks sometimes, but I've learned thats just part of life.

And one thing that has always helped me is the realization that no matter how much more one has, we want more. It’s human nature. It’s how we have unhappy billionaires and movie stars.

[BearSchlong 8089]

Exactly. I've had a life of surly 1% luxury, and I've been flat assed broke.

The happiest times are the ones where I have manageability.

[Bogeywon 2519]

2 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Exactly. I've had a life of surly 1% luxury, and I've been flat assed broke.

The happiest times are the ones where I have manageability.

I have a great life. My father has a successful small business that my brother and I run now. I have a nice house a new leased car every 2 years and financial stability that most would really dream of (not a millionaire or anything trust me far from it but for 38 I’m doing above average for sure). Also the wife and my 401k are filled every year. It doesn’t matter unless you just accept yourself and everything that comes with it. I really want for nothing. But man it DOES NOT MATTER. It’s all shit if you don’t love and accept yourself. Sorry I’m ranting 

[troph 24789]

meaning.  wow.  that's a tough one.  I don't think we will solve for it permanently, only temporarily.  and for me depression/anxiety are multi-faceted.  today it's caused by short days, unmet self-imposed expectations, fear tomorrow will be worse, and other times it's for who knows what reason, maybe no real reason. we are plagued with consciousness, many days I wish we were not.  most of us are of an age that we are in the middle of kids, older parents, coming to grips with the beginning of the decline, as long as that decline may be, it's very clear to me I'm not 30 anymore.  There's probably a 5-10 year period that we have to muddle through.  happiness as elusive as it may be is more attainable based on research by those in their empty nest years.  we are still in the trough.

but with all of that, I've thought long and hard about meaning.  for me it started with Jesus. He came with a complete solution set, community, rules, afterlife, something to live for, mission, all of it. amazing really, until it stopped working.  I don't belong there.  then it was marriage, to one woman, unlike every other person in our family. 7 divorces in 8 marriages.  then that didn't work out.

now I'm left wondering what is it, what gives meaning? again.  ugh.

well, I don't have an answer but I know a few things work. 

talking with others.  talking to people, like really talking.  shit's hard yo. COVID sucks yo. No I'm not okay, and I know you aren't either, let's talk about it.  really.  fuck that, did you see the game bullshit.  yes, but then really talk.  maybe that doesn't work for you but it does for me.  break it down all the way, why is it hard, why is that happening and experience the pain and turmoil with someone.  the same for joy and euphoria, share that with someone.

being in nature. I can't explain why but lots of smarter writers can. We are meant to be in and part of nature.  I started figuring that out a few years ago and have been lucky enough to take that to the next level this year during COVID.  I sit here feeling a bit shitty and I wonder why?  in addition to the above, I haven't been on a river casting a line in a while.  hmmmm.  we went to Santa Fe last week and hiked.  I found my self staring at a creek that was just starting to ice over, listening to the water and staring for 15 minutes.  I was lost, my headspace clear.  That stuff works like a champ.  you have to get connected to outside.

exercise. I can't explain this one, it just works.  I think it's part of the moment below and nature too. when our bodies are aligned with the what, when, where and how, it's good.  like talking to someone, when my body has done what it needs to do in order to be functional then I don't have the angst. I don't know that exercise gives meaning, but it sure makes the loud sirens in my head quiet.

loving others. I don't matter to many people but I do love a few and they need me.  feeling needed is a big part of my meaning.  I take great pleasure in carrying water for others. It makes me feel useful, I imagine like a working dog actually.  when I'm actively doing for others, actively loving them, I'm at home and feel easy.

gratitude. being thankful is a secret weapon. I don't use it right now as much as I should because it's easier to throw a pity party for COVID and not being able to go and do and being stuck and having a harder time at work and parenting and all of that.  My list of gripes is a mile fucking long. I'll be honest, right now I don't want to be thankful. hmm, I'm a bit stuck in a mood. wonder why.

being my best. this one is less about meaning and more about avoiding the thing that scares me the most.  dying without being my best, without trying my best, without becoming everything I know I can become.  This one haunts me big time. Drives me to dream, to try, to take risks and to hopefully achieve.  most of it's temporal so it's hard to say it means much, but it surely will make my death easier on me for sure.

in the moment. I'm not much of one for the religions with an identifiable God but the Buddhist idea of nothing really exists but the moment and that we need to practice being in the moment works.  and here is where so many fun things can happen.  uh.... SEX. Yes the freest best way to live in the moment. The suspension of time when getting laid and in the moment is supurb.  Great meals too.  I joke to friends, I'm just here to eat and fuck.  Sounds crass but then think about it!  Before we had time to ponder happiness, what did we do, hunt, eat, procreate.  rinse repeat.  like being in nature.  the moment helps.  competition too, playing tennis does that for me.  if I'm in the moment on the court nothing else matters.  The question is gone, can't be there.  Anywhere we can find that flow, that slow motion in the groove moment we aren't asking the question, what does it all mean? and I would go one step further, any time we are in the moment, we have found immortality for a second.  Because if there is no yesterday and no tomorrow and there is only now, then there is no birth and therefore there is no death. sounds hokey, maybe it is, but I've come to feel this principle when I find those moments.  now I chase the moment.  could be a hug, could be your favorite song, it could be a deep breath, it can be fleeting but it can be often.  be in it. chase it.  the moment is where we live forever.

My armchair thinking is that much of what I've found is really avoidance.  or a shoulder shrug and "so what" to the question.  I honestly don't think being at the threshold screaming "oh god yes, yes, more, fuck me harder" or being in the moment on a river casting the fly or hitting a tennis forehand like a champ gives meaning.  It just feels good and keeps me from asking that question again and again.  if I'm in the moment, I'm not asking "what does it all mean"?  If someone needs my help and I love them, I don't have time to ask the question, I've got work to do.  If I'm done working out I feel good, really good. If I'm zoned out by a creek everything feels aligned and it doesn't matter, that creek will still be there and I'm in my rightful place in the universe. So I think my solutions are really avoidance, but maybe a healthy one.  I dunno.  If you do know, please share.

tl;dr don't care had great sex, you should too.

Edited November 30, 2020 by troph

[Bogeywon 2519]

Can t love the above post enough

[ROFL BOX 6649]

For me personally, I get self esteem by esteemable acts.

As I was walking into HEB this evening (well, yesterday, anyhow... & ¡holy shit!, they were open) I picked up a random piece of paper that was flitting across the parking lot.

Around 10 minutes later, I said to myself "Hey, that was pretty damn selfless."

...But now that I've told y'all, it's almost like I'm trolling for attention.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[troph 24789]

talked to a friend about second guessing and anxiety at or about work (for them), thinking about the comment above about esteemable acts.  We all need to be deliberate in celebrating our work success, down to even just having a productive day - because our work success are esteemable acts.  and we need to triage our second guessing.  there are so few mistakes we really make and yet many of us obsess over those.  we need to have celebration fridays and we need to let go of the obsessive thinking of our errors.  I've been doing this a long time, it works.  of course sometimes I fail to do it and then it doesn't work.  practice makes better...  carry on.

Edited December 4, 2020 by troph

[troph 24789]

9 hours ago, ROFL BOX said:

As I was walking into HEB this evening (well, yesterday, anyhow... & ¡holy shit!, they were open) I picked up a random piece of paper that was flitting across the parking lot.

Around 10 minutes later, I said to myself "Hey, that was pretty damn selfless."

...But now that I've told y'all, it's almost like I'm trolling for attention.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

this is a great example of what I just came to say in my post above.  it's not work, but it should make you feel good, it is esteemable and you should stop and take inventory for yourself.  now if that's all you did, you'd suck, but you and I both know that's far down the list of esteemable acts you engage in even on a daily basis so it should make you feel good.

A lot of you are straight men and have wives, and some of you have wives that don't have a money paying job (though they work for sure).  The fact that you bring home the cash to pay the bills is a set of HUGELY esteemable acts.  You need to be giving yourself kudos ALL THE TIME.  The world won't do it, your kids won't either, your wife sometimes, but the amount of kudos you deserve (and likely need) MUST come from yourself.

I'm not that guy anymore, but I take great pride and satisfaction on a monthly if not weekly basis in carrying that obligation to a large part for two households.  It makes me feel great and I tell myself I'm awesome for doing it all the time.  Keeps me from lashing out and falling trap to the "you don't appreciate what I do" fight which is never productive.

And if your wife makes money, you still deserve kudos and so does she.  Give you yours first, then hers, and maybe she'll turn around and give you yours right back to you.  Appreciating ourselves, not taking ourselves for granted and returning the favor with praise and appreciation of others when our cup is full is very powerful.  You might even get laid.

Edited December 4, 2020 by troph

[ROFL BOX 6649]

I am always picking up rando alum. cans & tossing them into the bed of my truck for recycling collection (00.000$, but I'd rather get paid than have to pay, etc).

I also pick up stuff like the above noted loose paper all the time ("What the hell... I'm already going that way across thisnparking lot anyhow") & if there is something that catches my eye as a visual distraction on my back country drive home, I will eventually stop on the side of the road & collect that.

Ex: there is some sorta red netted bag on Mount Gainor that will probably see me pull over, however it is on the start of a descent (hill) with only 1 spot to get safely off the road. Maybe tomorrow.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Native Horn 3502]

"Do a good turn daily."  Well done, ROFL BOX!

[UpperWestside 6163]

This will go into a fair amount of details, but if this can help anyone reading this thread who feels like life just will not get any better I hope this can be some small comfort to you and I feel completely comfortable sharing this. Before this the only person I shared this with on here was Brisket and I only told him one of the details. 

Around a year ago I hit rock bottom. My girlfriend that I wanted to marry decided she could no longer handle the drinking I partook in almost daily. While I would almost never drink at her apartment or even when we went out to eat, I would go back to my apartment where I had a roommate who enjoyed drinking. Every night after I left my girlfriend's apartment it was straight to the bottle. I never understood fully why I would drink like I did because I have never liked the taste of alcohol. Things came to a head with the drinking and my final night I drank 18 ounces of tequila straight in an hour and a half. Had someone not been on the phone with me that cared more about me than I did myself at that point I likely would have drank, or at least attempted to, the entire liter as fast as possible. That conversation I believe saved my life. I woke up the next morning late for work for the first time in forever. I didn't sober up until 1 or 2 in the afternoon, but thankfully the manager at the restaurant I worked at was an alcoholic so he was too busy to notice. I stopped drinking that day cold turkey and had a long conversation 3 weeks or so later with someone who pointed me in the direction of finishing my degree. I enrolled back in college and just knew I wanted to get a degree in psychology. Then God kept stepping in. If you do not believe in God that is okay and I would never think less of any of you for that. I wound up meeting someone at a protest this summer who was getting their Master's at Columbia and she mentioned her fight against the educational system in NYC. I listened for three hours to hear talk about teaching. I knew this was the direction God was sending me. I had given up on this earlier in life because of a family illness. I did not know how to go about getting a teaching certificate, but once again God was already out front. I met someone and they out of the blue suggested I apply to an organization that would help to get me in the classroom. 

However, before began going down that road I started therapy because a friend had suggested I go. I wound up going up to The Bronx for therapy to the same therapist as a guy I am good friends with and that is when things really opened up. I got my eye opening moment in life when I wanted a meeting with the staff psychiatrist. We spoke at length and let me tell you having to share all of the darkest moments in life with ones that you may find embarrassing or unexplainable is not easy. I decided to put it all out there to finally get a definitive answer on why I am the way I am. My psychiatrist smiled a bit and said "Let me be the first to tell you that you have autism." Honest to God I do not know if I have ever had a happier moment in life than that one. Everything clicked in that moment! I started reading and reading and reading book after book. Many were about autism and others were about people like John Lewis. I found a link between autism and alcoholism and I fully understood for the first time the why of it. The best part was my therapist's son, who is around my age, is also what they call high-functioning. All of the anti-social behavior suddenly made sense. Why I got so quiet and would retreat away from people now made sense. I opened John Bradshaw's book because of a therapy meeting. It is one I mentioned on here before called "Healing the Shame That Binds You". All I could do after reading it is sit down do as he suggested and reach out to my inner child and have a conversation. I saw myself back as a child not knowing why the world didn't make sense to me in the way it did to everyone else. I thought about all the alcohol I had downed in an attempt to slow my mind down. Then I let go of all that pain. You have to let go of the pain. It'll eat you alive and then one day you will just feel like none of this is worth it and maybe you won't have someone there to help you like I did.

The rest of the story currently is I got an interview with an organization that helped people get their teaching license. I went through a lengthy interview process, but the 2 hour interview I had on Zoom with one of the regional directors back in Colorado (They give you a random director) could not have gone better! Yesterday on December 7th, 2020 I was accepted as a Teach for America Corps Member for 2021. I also let them know in the interview process that I wanted to teach in NYC and that my preference was to teach special education at the 1st or 2nd grade level. It appears I will get the opportunity to do just that. Tonight we got a formal welcome to TFA and I was able to be blessed with hearing others who have already gone through what I am about to start as well as a woman by the name of Tanya Ortiz Franklin. She is a Columbia grad who went to Los Angeles to teach some years back, was laid off during the Great Recession and then went back to law school at UCLA (Shoutout to @Sbbruin for this one because she was amazing to hear speak!). She has her law license, but has focused on the educational fight in this country and was just elected to the LAUSD school board. Her first meeting as a member is next Tuesday. So uplifting to hear her speak!

There are still formal interviews to come with principals of schools here (The first is on Thursday with one up in Inwood), but if you had told me that within a year I could go from being a drunk to now being on the cusp of finishing my degree and getting ready to give children the help I never received as a child I would not have believed a word of it. I also joined the choir at my church in The Bronx before COVID stopped everything. As things begin to settle back down I am going to write a book about my life and it will be geared towards those who have autism and perhaps those like me that go through 40 years of life never knowing that was what was different. I know what I want to share and thankfully I can focus on something and accomplish it once I start. I was also able to be blessed with now living in an amazingly big apartment in East Harlem (Where I wanted to live.) by myself and it is all because of God. He gave me the opportunities and I took those blessings and ran with them!

If you made it this far I hope that you realize your life is absolutely invaluable and you are here for a purpose. I found mine and I know that sometimes when you are in the haze of drugs or alcohol or just depression that it all seems pointless. It is not. If you do not feel you mean something to anyone there are people here who value you and would be glad to reach out to you, myself included. One of the gifts that the Good Lord gave me is I can listen to others really well and if any of you just want to send me a PM with stuff you do not want to put on this board I can promise you it will remain confidential. I am willing to help anyone who would like a helping hand who wants nothing in return except to see you feel better.

[Shoxthemonkey 1977]

My Dad's sister, my favorite Aunt, lost her battle with covid last night. A close friend, neighbor lady that treated our kids like her own grandkids, passed from it this morning. My best friend lost his dad 2 weeks ago from covid and just texted me that his brother lost both his mother in law and father in law to covid overnight. He's off to Iowa to handle chores on his brothers farm until things settle down. All of these folks were elderly but goddamnit they would all be here today if not for this shit. I'm not sure why I'm posting other than it feels right to spew something right now.

[troph 24789]

I'm sorry to hear that.  man, I'm not okay with this world and all the death and destruction right now.  These announcements are too frequent, COVID or otherwise, I'm just not up for it.  I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sorry for everyone.  This crap sucks.

[DaysOff 7947]

All pandemics end
All pandemics end
All pandemics end

I try to tell myself this at least once a day. There is light coming and it's not the oncoming train.

[Bogeywon 2519]

4 hours ago, Shoxthemonkey said:

My Dad's sister, my favorite Aunt, lost her battle with covid last night. A close friend, neighbor lady that treated our kids like her own grandkids, passed from it this morning. My best friend lost his dad 2 weeks ago from covid and just texted me that his brother lost both his mother in law and father in law to covid overnight. He's off to Iowa to handle chores on his brothers farm until things settle down. All of these folks were elderly but goddamnit they would all be here today if not for this shit. I'm not sure why I'm posting other than it feels right to spew something right now.

Very sorry to hear about the losses

[workswithseed 2103]

I have what the girlfriend has called the big SAD (seasonal affective disorder) a shitty day at work, and I miss going to church. Just wanted to say hi.

[BearSchlong 8089]

Hi back atya.


thats why I don't move to Portland, even though I'd love to be close to my sister and her family.
[mention=93]troph[/mention], my 12 year old nephew just announced that he might go through what you did. Your posts from the last 9 years or so really gave me a helpful perspective. Wanted to say thanks.

[Snake Diggity 4622]

On 11/29/2020 at 6:40 PM, troph said:

meaning.  wow.  that's a tough one.  I don't think we will solve for it permanently, only temporarily.  and for me depression/anxiety are multi-faceted.  today it's caused by short days, unmet self-imposed expectations, fear tomorrow will be worse, and other times it's for who knows what reason, maybe no real reason. we are plagued with consciousness, many days I wish we were not.  most of us are of an age that we are in the middle of kids, older parents, coming to grips with the beginning of the decline, as long as that decline may be, it's very clear to me I'm not 30 anymore.  There's probably a 5-10 year period that we have to muddle through.  happiness as elusive as it may be is more attainable based on research by those in their empty nest years.  we are still in the trough.

but with all of that, I've thought long and hard about meaning.  for me it started with Jesus. He came with a complete solution set, community, rules, afterlife, something to live for, mission, all of it. amazing really, until it stopped working.  I don't belong there.  then it was marriage, to one woman, unlike every other person in our family. 7 divorces in 8 marriages.  then that didn't work out.

now I'm left wondering what is it, what gives meaning? again.  ugh.

well, I don't have an answer but I know a few things work. 

talking with others.  talking to people, like really talking.  shit's hard yo. COVID sucks yo. No I'm not okay, and I know you aren't either, let's talk about it.  really.  fuck that, did you see the game bullshit.  yes, but then really talk.  maybe that doesn't work for you but it does for me.  break it down all the way, why is it hard, why is that happening and experience the pain and turmoil with someone.  the same for joy and euphoria, share that with someone.

being in nature. I can't explain why but lots of smarter writers can. We are meant to be in and part of nature.  I started figuring that out a few years ago and have been lucky enough to take that to the next level this year during COVID.  I sit here feeling a bit shitty and I wonder why?  in addition to the above, I haven't been on a river casting a line in a while.  hmmmm.  we went to Santa Fe last week and hiked.  I found my self staring at a creek that was just starting to ice over, listening to the water and staring for 15 minutes.  I was lost, my headspace clear.  That stuff works like a champ.  you have to get connected to outside.

exercise. I can't explain this one, it just works.  I think it's part of the moment below and nature too. when our bodies are aligned with the what, when, where and how, it's good.  like talking to someone, when my body has done what it needs to do in order to be functional then I don't have the angst. I don't know that exercise gives meaning, but it sure makes the loud sirens in my head quiet.

loving others. I don't matter to many people but I do love a few and they need me.  feeling needed is a big part of my meaning.  I take great pleasure in carrying water for others. It makes me feel useful, I imagine like a working dog actually.  when I'm actively doing for others, actively loving them, I'm at home and feel easy.

gratitude. being thankful is a secret weapon. I don't use it right now as much as I should because it's easier to throw a pity party for COVID and not being able to go and do and being stuck and having a harder time at work and parenting and all of that.  My list of gripes is a mile fucking long. I'll be honest, right now I don't want to be thankful. hmm, I'm a bit stuck in a mood. wonder why.

being my best. this one is less about meaning and more about avoiding the thing that scares me the most.  dying without being my best, without trying my best, without becoming everything I know I can become.  This one haunts me big time. Drives me to dream, to try, to take risks and to hopefully achieve.  most of it's temporal so it's hard to say it means much, but it surely will make my death easier on me for sure.

in the moment. I'm not much of one for the religions with an identifiable God but the Buddhist idea of nothing really exists but the moment and that we need to practice being in the moment works.  and here is where so many fun things can happen.  uh.... SEX. Yes the freest best way to live in the moment. The suspension of time when getting laid and in the moment is supurb.  Great meals too.  I joke to friends, I'm just here to eat and fuck.  Sounds crass but then think about it!  Before we had time to ponder happiness, what did we do, hunt, eat, procreate.  rinse repeat.  like being in nature.  the moment helps.  competition too, playing tennis does that for me.  if I'm in the moment on the court nothing else matters.  The question is gone, can't be there.  Anywhere we can find that flow, that slow motion in the groove moment we aren't asking the question, what does it all mean? and I would go one step further, any time we are in the moment, we have found immortality for a second.  Because if there is no yesterday and no tomorrow and there is only now, then there is no birth and therefore there is no death. sounds hokey, maybe it is, but I've come to feel this principle when I find those moments.  now I chase the moment.  could be a hug, could be your favorite song, it could be a deep breath, it can be fleeting but it can be often.  be in it. chase it.  the moment is where we live forever.

My armchair thinking is that much of what I've found is really avoidance.  or a shoulder shrug and "so what" to the question.  I honestly don't think being at the threshold screaming "oh god yes, yes, more, fuck me harder" or being in the moment on a river casting the fly or hitting a tennis forehand like a champ gives meaning.  It just feels good and keeps me from asking that question again and again.  if I'm in the moment, I'm not asking "what does it all mean"?  If someone needs my help and I love them, I don't have time to ask the question, I've got work to do.  If I'm done working out I feel good, really good. If I'm zoned out by a creek everything feels aligned and it doesn't matter, that creek will still be there and I'm in my rightful place in the universe. So I think my solutions are really avoidance, but maybe a healthy one.  I dunno.  If you do know, please share.

tl;dr don't care had great sex, you should too.

I had consistent depression and suicidal ideation for almost 2 decades.  I’ve tried every single medication/supplement/treatment (short of electroshock and ketamine) with almost no success (bupropion helped me for a couple months, then just gave me headaches).  I had hundreds of hours of therapy with multiple therapists, no improvement.  This year, I took a different approach, and my suicidal ideation is almost completely gone, and my depression is as shallow as it’s been in over a decade.   I’m not “cured” by any means, but I am mentally healthier than I’ve been in a long, long time.  Some of the improvements could be the result of me just getting older/wiser, realizing how much my kids need me, or from realizing I was just never actually going to go thru with suicide.  But I think a LOT of why I have been able to avoid the darkest holes this year is because of 7 things I now (really try) to do every day:

1. Get at least 7 hours of sleep.

2. Exercise for at least 30 minutes per day.

3. Spend at least 30 minutes per day outdoors.

4. Eat at least 100 g of protein and 30 g of fiber.

5. Spend a moment being grateful.

6. Find something to laugh about.

7. Spend at least 10 minutes talking to someone socially (preferably face to face).

The first 2 are the big ones.  I have found that without proper sleep and exercise, I have no chance of having a great day, and with proper sleep and exercise, there is no chance of me going into a tailspin.

Im no medical professional and my experience  may only be relevant to me.  But I would suggest anyone who is depressed start with that list.  2 weeks of doing all 7 of those things every day can make a big difference.  Note: Obviously anyone in crisis should seek professional help.

In hindsight, it is very surprising (and frustrating) that in all my years of dealing with therapists and psychiatrists, no one ever spoke to in depth me about sleep, diet, or exercise.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Snake Diggity

[workswithseed 2103]

23 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Hi back atya.


thats why I don't move to Portland, even though I'd love to be close to my sister and her family.
[mention=93]troph[/mention], my 12 year old nephew just announced that he might go through what you did. Your posts from the last 9 years or so really gave me a helpful perspective. Wanted to say thanks.
 

I've been here since 2016, and it's pretty, but damn does the winter weather beat you down. The first year was the worse in terms of SAD for obvious reasons. Come in summer, and it's really nice, well maybe not so much of this year with riots and fires. Is your nephew taking any vitamin d?

[UpperWestside 6163]

18 hours ago, workswithseed said:

I have what the girlfriend has called the big SAD (seasonal affective disorder) a shitty day at work, and I miss going to church. Just wanted to say hi.

I feel you on church. I am able to go occasionally to a small Brazilian church because maybe 25 of them show up in a church that can seat 300. I miss my own church. I get on ZOOM with the choir on Sundays and we talk about our lives. 
 

Try to find as many positive aspects of your day as is possible and focus on them. Steer clear of negativity as best you can right now too. If you need to vent do it here or send someone a PM that posts here regularly and I am certain you will get a kind response!

[Bogeywon 2519]

28 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I had consistent depression and suicidal ideation for almost 2 decades.  I’ve tried every single medication/supplement/treatment (short of electroshock and ketamine) with almost no success (bupropion helped me for a couple months, then just gave me headaches).  I had hundreds of hours of therapy with multiple therapists, no improvement.  This year, I took a different approach, and my suicidal ideation is almost completely gone, and my depression is as shallow as it’s been in over a decade.   I’m not “cured” by any means, but I am mentally healthier than I’ve been in a long, long time.  Some of the improvements could be the result of me just getting older/wiser, realizing how much my kids need me, or from realizing I was just never actually going to go thru with suicide.  But I think a LOT of why I have been able to avoid the darkest holes this year is because of 7 things I now (really try) to do every day:

1. Get at least 7 hours of sleep.

2. Exercise for at least 30 minutes per day.

3. Spend at least 30 minutes per day outdoors.

4. Eat at least 100 g of protein and 30 g of fiber.

5. Spend a moment being grateful.

6. Find something to laugh about.

7. Spend at least 10 minutes talking to someone socially (preferably face to face).

The first 2 are the big ones.  I have found that without proper sleep and exercise, I have no chance of having a great day, and with proper sleep and exercise, there is no chance of me going into a tailspin.

Im no medical professional and my experience  may only be relevant to me.  But I would suggest anyone who is depressed start with that list.  2 weeks of doing all 7 of those things every day can make a big difference.  Note: Obviously anyone in crisis should seek professional help.

In hindsight, it is very surprising (and frustrating) that in all my years of dealing with therapists and psychiatrists, no one ever spoke to in depth me about sleep, diet, or exercise.

These points help a ton. Working out and sleep are huge same with eating habits 

[Bogeywon 2519]

18 hours ago, workswithseed said:

I have what the girlfriend has called the big SAD (seasonal affective disorder) a shitty day at work, and I miss going to church. Just wanted to say hi.

I’ve been there to many times to count. We see you! Come by anytime to talk

[troph 24789]

nm.

Edited December 12, 2020 by troph

[troph 24789]

48 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I had consistent depression and suicidal ideation for almost 2 decades.  I’ve tried every single medication/supplement/treatment (short of electroshock and ketamine) with almost no success (bupropion helped me for a couple months, then just gave me headaches).  I had hundreds of hours of therapy with multiple therapists, no improvement.  This year, I took a different approach, and my suicidal ideation is almost completely gone, and my depression is as shallow as it’s been in over a decade.   I’m not “cured” by any means, but I am mentally healthier than I’ve been in a long, long time.  Some of the improvements could be the result of me just getting older/wiser, realizing how much my kids need me, or from realizing I was just never actually going to go thru with suicide.  But I think a LOT of why I have been able to avoid the darkest holes this year is because of 7 things I now (really try) to do every day:

1. Get at least 7 hours of sleep.

2. Exercise for at least 30 minutes per day.

3. Spend at least 30 minutes per day outdoors.

4. Eat at least 100 g of protein and 30 g of fiber.

5. Spend a moment being grateful.

6. Find something to laugh about.

7. Spend at least 10 minutes talking to someone socially (preferably face to face).

The first 2 are the big ones.  I have found that without proper sleep and exercise, I have no chance of having a great day, and with proper sleep and exercise, there is no chance of me going into a tailspin.

Im no medical professional and my experience  may only be relevant to me.  But I would suggest anyone who is depressed start with that list.  2 weeks of doing all 7 of those things every day can make a big difference.  Note: Obviously anyone in crisis should seek professional help.

In hindsight, it is very surprising (and frustrating) that in all my years of dealing with therapists and psychiatrists, no one ever spoke to in depth me about sleep, diet, or exercise.

Good stuff.  Really good stuff.  Agree 100%.

[Pokoloco 1281]

Not sure if I have depression or if I finally just realized that I'm a short, balding, chinless zilch with a big nose and bad teeth.  I've stolen my wife's youth and beauty, my kids don't respect me, I'm never going to be financially secure.  And my college football team will always be second rate.  

[troph 24789]

18 minutes ago, Pokoloco said:

Not sure if I have depression or if I finally just realized that I'm a short, balding, chinless zilch with a big nose and bad teeth.  I've stolen my wife's youth and beauty, my kids don't respect me, I'm never going to be financially secure.  And my college football team will always be second rate.  

Bob Stoops, is that you? We told you not to build that house.  
 

jk

sounds like depression. Welcome to our corner of surly. Pull up a chair and let’s feel better together.

[Pokoloco 1281]

How can I be delusional enough to think I have a purpose?

[troph 24789]

1 minute ago, Pokoloco said:

How can I be delusional enough to think I have a purpose?

I may not be the best person to talk to about purpose, I'm tormented with that question.  At this point I'm comfortable with a modest purpose of taking care of those around me.  the rest of that question I avoid with being in the present in a handful of ways.  chicken and the egg brother, not sure if working out will help or if you aren't able to work out (assuming you don't) because your not feeling well.  Either way, we gotta get you out of the rut.  not sure your kids' age but mine are teens, I'm dumb as a rock right now -- unless we stop and force a real conversation.  I had one last weekend and it was great to connect with them through conflict.  I told them I felt like they took advantage and took me for granted and they stepped up and heard me and we talked all around it.  So even teens can surprise you. 

I'm not a big fan of chemical based help simply because I think our understanding of our brain is severely limited at this point and I don't particularly like the idea of pharma solutions, but I get that it works for a lot of people.  so there's that.  talk therapy is good too.

basically, kinda like a 12-step program, you gotta recognize the problem (you did) and then figure out a way out. 

lay off the bottle if that's your think, go for walks, connect with nature.  start there.  add some physical exercise one day a week, don't over do it.  add a second day a week of physical exercise, camp there for a month.  find a hobby, do it, commit to it.  get better at it.  financial security for all but the .01% is a myth.  find things about your work you like and focus on that.  you gotta start building little pockets of self-satisfaction and you can't run from your own physical biochemistry.  you need adrenaline, endorphins, oxytocin, seratonin and dopamine and you can find those things in your daily life.  and drop the booze if that's your thing, it wrecks the body's natural biochemistry.

[UpperWestside 6163]

7 hours ago, Pokoloco said:

How can I be delusional enough to think I have a purpose?

You are not delusional and you do have a purpose. When you begin the process of coming out of the haze of having lived a life without one you likely aren't going to find it in a day or a week or month. Each day you wake up take stock of yourself and repeat quietly that today you'll be a blessing to someone in some way. When I first stopped drinking I asked God to allow me to be a blessing to at least one person each day. That may have been easier for me because I worked in a restaurant and had many opportunities to interact with people, but each day I can vividly recall meeting someone who needed some joy brought into their life. You can do that too and in turn you'll begin to feel better. 

Eventually you are going to see doors open for your life and those that you love that you never could have imagined were possible. Along the journey you will find your purpose. How you will find it and what it will be is not for me to speculate, but it'll come. When you are willing to help yourself out and do better you put yourself in a position to gain the understanding about your own walk down the road of life. God opened some doors I would have laughed at ever existing just a year ago, but here I am accepting God's blessings. Even if you do not believe in God just believe that there is a purpose for you and you are going to fulfill whatever it is.