Depression, OCD, and whatever else ails you between the ears

[BearSchlong 8083]

I'm just in a pissy mood tonight. Mainly because of yesterday’s election and the fact that I spent all day comforting the women in my life who are feeling disenfranchised and disillusioned.

I watched “The Turnaround” on Netflix - an inspirational 25-minute short that made things dusty and turned my frown upside down. Just thought I would share.

[troph 24781]

 I’m through Xanax withdrawals 25-30 days later.  That was a brutal 45+ days coming off prednisone then Xanax, holy hell. I’ll share more later for now man I’m enjoying a Friday night alone the house is clear, wife at a murder mystery dinner I have no interest in doing and the boys are at the game with the band. 

So it’s me and our pup and some pizza, football, good old school country music going (think Keith Whitley etc) and some all day brewing NA beer to wash it all down. 

about all I can say is “fuck yeah.”

Edited November 9 by troph

[thunderlounge 7813]

There's even sorta-watchable football on tonight, too. Score!

[Kennythetiger 9375]

3 hours ago, troph said:

 I’m through Xanax withdrawals 25-30 days later.  That was a brutal 45+ days coming off prednisone then Xanax, holy hell. I’ll share more later for now man I’m enjoying a Friday night alone the house is clear, wife at a murder mystery dinner I have no interest in doing and the boys are at the game with the band. 

So it’s me and our pup and some pizza, football, good old school country music going (think Keith Whitley etc) and some all day brewing NA beer to wash it all down. 

about all I can say is “fuck yeah.”

Tell Lorrie I love her. 

[troph 24781]

14 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

Tell Lorrie I love her. 

Great song. 

[mchookem 16321]

7 hours ago, troph said:

 I’m through Xanax withdrawals 25-30 days later.  That was a brutal 45+ days coming off prednisone then Xanax, holy hell. I’ll share more later for now man I’m enjoying a Friday night alone the house is clear, wife at a murder mystery dinner I have no interest in doing and the boys are at the game with the band. 

So it’s me and our pup and some pizza, football, good old school country music going (think Keith Whitley etc) and some all day brewing NA beer to wash it all down. 

about all I can say is “fuck yeah.”

sooo...like how quick do you think a xanax dependency can develop? 

i have little bitty 1 mgs that i generally just take half of at a time, and only for what i call 'situational anxiety'. so like 30 pills generally lasts me 6-9 months (hey im retired, no kids, and i live in CO...stress is generally not a big problem since i quit working lol).

but, uh... i've kind of been popping my halves with increased frequency the past 3 days. iykyk 😕

i mean i need to be able to stop weeping during the day and to sleep at night (she says as 1am approaches), but I don't know how long this is sustainable...

[TwiceHorn 31438]

2 hours ago, mchookem said:

sooo...like how quick do you think a xanax dependency can develop? 

i have little bitty 1 mgs that i generally just take half of at a time, and only for what i call 'situational anxiety'. so like 30 pills generally lasts me 6-9 months (hey im retired, no kids, and i live in CO...stress is generally not a big problem since i quit working lol).

but, uh... i've kind of been popping my halves with increased frequency the past 3 days. iykyk 😕

i mean i need to be able to stop weeping during the day and to sleep at night (she says as 1am approaches), but I don't know how long this is sustainable...

Pretty quickly.  Not days, but soon.  Have you tried Benadryl for sleep?

I'm not saying you'll become an addict, but you can build tolerance pretty quickly and tolerance = withdrawal and benzo withdrawal is quite unpleasant.

Because you're aware of it, when you get past this trauma, taper rather than going cold turkey (use it half as often, then half again, etc.).

It's gonna suck for a while, but you'll be ok.  And it's ok to look out for #1 for a bit.  You have to protect yourself from them and Xanax first before you can be of any help to anyone else.

[troph 24781]

I was using .25 mg for overcoming panic attacks and severe anxiety related to sleep and Covid. First it was shortness of breath and then it was sudden jerking awake the moment I would drift off, then it turned into early stage PTSD. 

I only took it at night and I took it about 50 days out of 80-90.

i developed a significant physical dependency. I was never addicted, I took as directed, when needed and when I decided it was time to get off of it I got off of it and did not have a single relapse. But dependency and addiction are separate matters.
 

The problem is Xanax  alters your gaba receptors and they have to heal so diet, exercise and sleep (which becomes hard) all matter tremendously.  That healing process can take a month. 

what were my withdrawal symptoms? Insomnia, intense anxiety and chest pain. I had minor ones too like rando suicidal thoughts - they were never a threat they were just odd - I also had agoraphobia too which was bizarre. 

everyone is different but mine started about day 5 and lasted in an intense way for at least 2 weeks. I noticed improvement at the 23-24 day mark. I’m now 30 days off and I’m certain it’s over.

the hardest part is thinking it will never get better but it will. I focused on the fact that my symptoms were not “me” but “Xanax” which is to say they were very real but not borne out of my organic state. 

I focused on two things - withdrawal is evidence of healing and my body has powerful mechanisms to ensure I get sleep. Those were a huge comfort.

i used a hydroxyzine script out to 100mg for anxiety and sleep to augment. I also took the sleep aid I mentioned above along with magnesium glycate (sp?) and valerian root. 
 

the complicating factor for me was coming off prednisone and coming out of Covid as my insomnia and anxiety and chest pain lasted from July until now and are common symptoms and side effects of Covid, sleep deprivation, prednisone and Xanax withdrawals so I struggled with is this withdrawals or Covid. It was withdrawals.

The rehab content marketing out there is intense and much of it talks about two weeks, I would say 2 weeks of hell and 2 more of getting well, then start from 0 again and rebuild the things you love and need in your life.

I never quit tennis but I was not going even 50% and I wasn’t doing much else but work and I would take hikes in the green belt. 

go slow, use a doctor to help, be gentle and kind and clear out a month to so it tbqh. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26434]

For sleep, I use ZMA + L-Theanine, and sometimes put benadryl on top. 

Edited November 9 by Bozo_Casanova

[troph 24781]

I found all the talk about this and that for sleep especially sleep hygiene was bullshit when I truly needed Xanax and when I was coming off it. And to be clear to heal I had to sleep and it’s the only thing that worked - I tried everything and other meds too. Nothing worked it’s why I had it, and withdrawal insomnia is just something you have to deal with. Thankfully I was mostly healed from post Covid when I came off it.

now it’s definitely back to good sleep hygiene, and I think understanding what your brain needs to sleep is critical. Vitamins and supps can be really helpful if there isn’t a serious issue like withdrawals. 

Edited November 9 by troph

[troph 24781]

I went cold turkey and didn’t realize I could go .125mg and even switch to Valium and taper further. To be honest though I wasn’t exactly everyday and I wanted off. I think I was a low enough dose to be ok but I probably made it a tad rougher on myself. But I’m done. It’s over. 

I won’t say never but I will suffer a lot to avoid needing Xanax again.  And to be clear I was in a fucking sleep deprivation hellscape when I took it to begin with. 

[troph 24781]

38 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

For sleep, I use ZMA + L-Theanine, and sometimes put benadryl on top. 

Hydroxyzine is a better med than Benadryl for sleep - it also has anti anxiety, bronchial dilating, and skeletal muscle relaxing properties -and both are H1 antihistamines the only concern with the H1s is the correlation to dementia. 

Edited November 9 by troph

[TwiceHorn 31438]

45 minutes ago, troph said:

I was using .25 mg for overcoming panic attacks and severe anxiety related to sleep and Covid. First it was shortness of breath and then it was sudden jerking awake the moment I would drift off, then it turned into early stage PTSD. 

I only took it at night and I took it about 50 days out of 80-90.

i developed a significant physical dependency. I was never addicted, I took as directed, when needed and when I decided it was time to get off of it I got off of it and did not have a single relapse. But dependency and addiction are separate matters.
 

The problem is Xanax  alters your gaba receptors and they have to heal so diet, exercise and sleep (which becomes hard) all matter tremendously.  That healing process can take a month. 

what were my withdrawal symptoms? Insomnia, intense anxiety and chest pain. I had minor ones too like rando suicidal thoughts - they were never a threat they were just odd - I also had agoraphobia too which was bizarre. 

everyone is different but mine started about day 5 and lasted in an intense way for at least 2 weeks. I noticed improvement at the 23-24 day mark. I’m now 30 days off and I’m certain it’s over.

the hardest part is thinking it will never get better but it will. I focused on the fact that my symptoms were not “me” but “Xanax” which is to say they were very real but not borne out of my organic state. 

I focused on two things - withdrawal is evidence of healing and my body has powerful mechanisms to ensure I get sleep. Those were a huge comfort.

i used a hydroxyzine script out to 100mg for anxiety and sleep to augment. I also took the sleep aid I mentioned above along with magnesium glycate (sp?) and valerian root. 
 

the complicating factor for me was coming off prednisone and coming out of Covid as my insomnia and anxiety and chest pain lasted from July until now and are common symptoms and side effects of Covid, sleep deprivation, prednisone and Xanax withdrawals so I struggled with is this withdrawals or Covid. It was withdrawals.

The rehab content marketing out there is intense and much of it talks about two weeks, I would say 2 weeks of hell and 2 more of getting well, then start from 0 again and rebuild the things you love and need in your life.

I never quit tennis but I was not going even 50% and I wasn’t doing much else but work and I would take hikes in the green belt. 

go slow, use a doctor to help, be gentle and kind and clear out a month to so it tbqh. 

Also don't forget explosive, uncontrollable diarrhea.  Looks like you missed out on that one, but rehabs nationwide are full of shitty bathrooms and dorm rooms.

[troph 24781]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also don't forget explosive, uncontrollable diarrhea.  Looks like you missed out on that one, but rehabs nationwide are full of shitty bathrooms and dorm rooms.

My system was off a little bit more timing less qualitative change. Yeah it’s called benzo belly. No I didn’t really have that. 

but fuck me the chest pain was legit. 

[mchookem 16321]

thanks guys. i think i'll be ok, it's only been a few days... i'll try skipping it today, and i'll just try a good sleep gummy i like tonight. or hell, just stay up until 4am reading. who cares lol.

i've had this prescription for over 15 years... this is literally the first time i've ever had to take it continuously for any length of time just to kind of function. i didn't even get out of my pjs until yesterday afternoon! (to be fair we've been snowed in for a couple of days so i wasn't going anywhere anyways, but still).

it's really a wonder drug, and im an advocate for someone like me generally... used to take my little half for big presentations, job interviews, major deadlines or difficult professional confrontations and other stressful situations... worked perfectly and exactly what id need for calm and focusness.

but this week has certainly been different 😕 and i figured it could quickly get out of hand. 

[troph 24781]

It was critical to my healing, there is no doubt about it. So I do not criticize it across the board at all. It does alter the physical structure of your gaba receptors though so use judiciously.  
 

I’ve found valerian root 400-600 mg to be really great the last few weeks. I also take 50-100mg of quality hemp oil softgels. 

Edited November 9 by troph

[BearSchlong 8083]

+ on Valerian root. Best dreams ever.

My daughter turned me on to Ashwagandha, one 600mg capsule in the am. It has noticeably reduced my cortisol levels. It does a great job of chilling me out - I would have to make an effort to become stressed.

[troph 24781]

Started CRM therapy about 3-4 weeks ago it’s incredible especially when coupled with ketamine, I’m doing 2 hour sessions on Saturday morning then 45 min ketamine on my own meaning no therapy just sit back and relax. It’s an incredible combo, and actually two stellate ganglion blocks for covid and PTSD/anxiety plus CRM and ketamine have really produced some incredible changes and that’s excluding the straight up benefit of the stellate ganglion block on post Covid physical symptoms for which it is as a miracle.

on the mental health side that triad is money. 

CRM includes a lot of breathing work, to establish a connection to the body, then you do a bunch of imagery work to integrate all your trauma and overwhelming feelings and maladaptive strategies for wellness. It’s a bit hocus pocus but truthfully if folks accept the neurobiological benefits of ketamine I would then say CRM is very similar except it’s more active and harder to achieve the trance like state but once you do the work is transformative. 

it’s designed for complex PTSD, dissociative and attachment disorders. I’m probably officially in the attachment disorder camp with some other trauma / PTSD mixed in. Thankfully I’m highly adaptive and not disabled by it but I’d like a calmer life and this is working really well.

https://comprehensiveresourcemodel.com

Edited November 9 by troph

[mchookem 16321]

lol SNL with the xanax for democrats joke tonight 😆🤪

[wackawacka 177]

Gave up alcohol years ago. Started taking edibles as an alternative given lack of hangover, less impacting health wise, etc.

Damn, I stopped taking edibles and my thinking dramatically improved even when not on them. I am still a fan of legalization but the brain fog for me post edibles even days afterwards was impacting more than I realized.

I think too many push marijuana without the caveat that it can have impacts too. I still think marijuana is way better for health than alcohol but being dependent on any substance is not good.

I know it is obvious but working out is the best medicine even if just 10-15 mins. You don't need to be maxing out your workouts. Just doing any helps physically and mentally.

[Kennythetiger 9375]

On 11/9/2024 at 12:25 PM, troph said:

Started CRM therapy about 3-4 weeks ago it’s incredible especially when coupled with ketamine, I’m doing 2 hour sessions on Saturday morning then 45 min ketamine on my own meaning no therapy just sit back and relax. It’s an incredible combo, and actually two stellate ganglion blocks for covid and PTSD/anxiety plus CRM and ketamine have really produced some incredible changes and that’s excluding the straight up benefit of the stellate ganglion block on post Covid physical symptoms for which it is as a miracle.

on the mental health side that triad is money. 

CRM includes a lot of breathing work, to establish a connection to the body, then you do a bunch of imagery work to integrate all your trauma and overwhelming feelings and maladaptive strategies for wellness. It’s a bit hocus pocus but truthfully if folks accept the neurobiological benefits of ketamine I would then say CRM is very similar except it’s more active and harder to achieve the trance like state but once you do the work is transformative. 

it’s designed for complex PTSD, dissociative and attachment disorders. I’m probably officially in the attachment disorder camp with some other trauma / PTSD mixed in. Thankfully I’m highly adaptive and not disabled by it but I’d like a calmer life and this is working really well.

https://comprehensiveresourcemodel.com

Troph, when my brain gets all wound up tight like yours, I use an app on my phone called “Calm”, and specifically the sleep stories. It’s very rare for me to make it through a complete story, even when I am most anxious. I don’t think I have ever made it through two. 
Of course sometimes I just pick the ones Eva Green narrates and pretend she’s just talking to me. And your own MoC narrates a couple too. All right all right all right. 
They sounded cornier than hell when I started but between the sensory description and the cadence of the reader’s voice, they work like magic for me. 

[troph 24781]

1 hour ago, Kennythetiger said:

Troph, when my brain gets all wound up tight like yours, I use an app on my phone called “Calm”, and specifically the sleep stories. It’s very rare for me to make it through a complete story, even when I am most anxious. I don’t think I have ever made it through two. 
Of course sometimes I just pick the ones Eva Green narrates and pretend she’s just talking to me. And your own MoC narrates a couple too. All right all right all right. 
They sounded cornier than hell when I started but between the sensory description and the cadence of the reader’s voice, they work like magic for me. 

I’ll try that!  5 months ago I slept fine 99% of the time sigh. My wife listens to audio books and podcasts with sleepy sounding voices when she can’t sleep which is sadly too often, I’ve done that the last few months some, spa music too. 

I’m actually banking on tackling the post Covid trauma straight up and just work through it and hoping the other side is my normal baseline.  
 

the good news I’m approaching 7 hours a night, up from 6, and it’s been for 7-8 nights in a row. Previously I would have 1-2 nights a week that were awful. It is still taking more time to fall asleep but I’m getting the rest. Best sleep since the beginning of July. Man oh man.

I’m now starting a taper on hydroxyzine to get off that. Most say there is no need but a vocal minority of patients and providers suggest it might be needed.  So 7 hours per night with help but it’s not the heavy stuff.  

I’ll look at adding calm to my basket of tricks, and one night at a time… 

Edited November 12 by troph

[mchookem 16321]

well i didn't take any xanax all day yesterday and last night, just benadryl and my beta blocker...i kept allllmost drifting off then some horrible thought would pop in my head and i'd be back to wide awake 😳 about 4am i finally got up and took just 1/4.

read today the CO Crisis Lifeline and CO Mental Health lines had a 32% increase in calls last week. and that's in Colorado. fuck.

[PRONG HORN 3135]

2 hours ago, mchookem said:

i kept allllmost drifting off then some horrible thought would pop in my head and i'd be back to wide awake 😳

 

 

This is basically meditation.  You're relaxing there and then a thought pops in.  Try to not attach/interact with, the thought.

The best tool I've found that works for falling asleep with an overactive mind is focus.  It takes focus to not attach to the thought.  Let it go by concentrating on nothing.  Thought pops in, you don't attach, it goes away.  Just like when you're meditating.  

 

Or, you could meditate before sleep.  Sit there, let thoughts pass, when thoughts fade and you start to get really quiet, or you begin to nod off, just go to bed.  

 

One of these

 

I like these much better than zafus or zabutons.  To me it's easier to balance the vertebrae like tea-cups when using a bench.  I like to put a folded sleeping bag under the bench.  

 

 

[troph 24781]

14 hours ago, mchookem said:

well i didn't take any xanax all day yesterday and last night, just benadryl and my beta blocker...i kept allllmost drifting off then some horrible thought would pop in my head and i'd be back to wide awake 😳 about 4am i finally got up and took just 1/4.

read today the CO Crisis Lifeline and CO Mental Health lines had a 32% increase in calls last week. and that's in Colorado. fuck.

Consider valerian root or high dose of hemp. But yeah if Xanax is working and the only thing working then you have a decision to make - entrench Xanax as your sleep aid for the long term and foreseeable future  or suffer in the short term to get off it.  Not sure which to do that’s for you and your doctor.  I chose to stop and it was 30 days of hell. Sleep was sporadic at best. Now that I'm through it, I’m glad I did it. But to be really honest nothing is going to work as well as Xanax if that’s what you’re using as a sleep aid and nothing will work well at all when you’re coming off Xanax. It’s purely a suffer through it situation.
 

Now I just need to finish getting my sleep routine restored but another 6+ hour night last night and that’s 8-9 in a row after 16 weeks of totally destroyed sleep.

baby steps …

Edited November 12 by troph

[Vegas64 673]

On 11/9/2024 at 9:45 AM, mchookem said:

thanks guys. i think i'll be ok, it's only been a few days... i'll try skipping it today, and i'll just try a good sleep gummy i like tonight. or hell, just stay up until 4am reading. who cares lol.

i've had this prescription for over 15 years... this is literally the first time i've ever had to take it continuously for any length of time just to kind of function. i didn't even get out of my pjs until yesterday afternoon! (to be fair we've been snowed in for a couple of days so i wasn't going anywhere anyways, but still).

it's really a wonder drug, and im an advocate for someone like me generally... used to take my little half for big presentations, job interviews, major deadlines or difficult professional confrontations and other stressful situations... worked perfectly and exactly what id need for calm and focusness.

but this week has certainly been different 😕 and i figured it could quickly get out of hand. 

Question for you, because I take a low dose of anti-anxiety medicine (Busiprone) daily and a half a Propenol (what I understand is a much stronger anxiety med) for the situations you called out (big presos, job interviews, etc.).

Are those meds benzos and should I worry? I'm worried now.

[Anastasis 23458]

4 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Question for you, because I take a low dose of anti-anxiety medicine (Busiprone) daily and a half a Propenol (what I understand is a much stronger anxiety med) for the situations you called out (big presos, job interviews, etc.).

Are those meds benzos and should I worry? I'm worried now.

Neither are benzos. Buspirone is non-addictive. Propranolol is a beta blocker, primary a drug used for cardiovascular indications. It tamps down the body's fight or flight response. 

[Vegas64 673]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Neither are benzos. Buspirone is non-addictive. Propranolol is a beta blocker, primary a drug used for cardiovascular indications. It tamps down the body's fight or flight response. 

I take 5mg's of Buspirone daily-- should I maybe NOT do that? It was prescribed for anxiety (like I assume mchorn and the others are talking about why they took xanax). Proporanolol I rarely take-- like once every two or three weeks maybe-- I'm actually not even sure it works or it works taken it so infrequently, but any ill-effects of a beta blocker? (I will now google what a beta blocker is).

[Anastasis 23458]

5 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I take 5mg's of Buspirone daily-- should I maybe NOT do that?

I wouldn't tell you to do or it not do it. If you are worried about addiction with buspar, you should not. BTW, 5mg a day is a very low dose. If you have concerns you should talk with your doc. 

[thunderlounge 7813]

 

[troph 24781]

there is a school of thought that any medicine that crosses the blood brain barrier that is used for a consistent / long period of time does pose withdrawal risks even if the drug is not controlled or considered addictive. People will swear for example that hydroxyzine causes withdrawal symptoms after long periods of use, and all the literature says not possible. You pin down a psychiatrist on it and they’ll kind of admit yeah it’s possible. So I think any drug taken consistently and daily that interacts with neurotransmitters and receptors has at least some withdrawal risk, at least for some. YMMV. 
 

but the gold standard for holy shit withdrawals are alcohol, benzos and narcotics. Maybe in that order. Anything else might be hard but they aren’t going to compare to those three.

Edited November 14 by troph

[totallynotabuttpirate 5395]

The sleep thing is everything. I can't remember a single night of good sleep in my life. Turns out I have severe sleep apnea, just had like my 4th surgery this year, sinuses this time. Hopefully don't need c-pap but prob not bc I also have severe insomnia, so meds are necessary. 

[troph 24781]

8 hours ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

The sleep thing is everything. I can't remember a single night of good sleep in my life. Turns out I have severe sleep apnea, just had like my 4th surgery this year, sinuses this time. Hopefully don't need c-pap but prob not bc I also have severe insomnia, so meds are necessary. 

I could not get well without sleep and I was getting none - not exaggerating I had many nights of zero sleep - a vicious cycle.  Meds have their place 100%. Like I said above articles about good sleep hygiene don’t matter when systemic issues will keep you awake no matter what.  Lack of sleep is no joke.

[thunderlounge 7813]

 

https://mtnops.com/products/slumber

 

Getting cooler out, so why not have some cocoa that knocks you out?

I use this from time to time as needed, works a treat. 

[BearSchlong 8083]

I’m a week into a very high end mattress and adjustable vibrating base and it’s doing wonders for my sleep.

[wackawacka 177]

For sleep, magnesium is non addictive and has strong studies supporting its positive impacts on sleep.

full disclosure, i know their investors.

https://firstday.com/collections/calming-magnesium?srsltid=AfmBOorO-fnNTXsM--4Vh2M3XLDwKIafWc_yzoPAilblX1-_r0yUr6lK

Edited Saturday at 06:19 PM by wackawacka

[UpperWestside 6160]

On 11/6/2024 at 9:49 PM, BearSchlong said:

I'm just in a pissy mood tonight. Mainly because of yesterday’s election and the fact that I spent all day comforting the women in my life who are feeling disenfranchised and disillusioned.

I watched “The Turnaround” on Netflix - an inspirational 25-minute short that made things dusty and turned my frown upside down. Just thought I would share.

I watched Bonhoeffer two days ago. The people who need to see it will not. I enjoyed it even if it was not entirely accurate. Still it resonated with me.

[workswithseed 2088]

On 11/16/2024 at 10:10 AM, wackawacka said:

For sleep, magnesium is non addictive and has strong studies supporting its positive impacts on sleep.

full disclosure, i know their investors.

https://firstday.com/collections/calming-magnesium?srsltid=AfmBOorO-fnNTXsM--4Vh2M3XLDwKIafWc_yzoPAilblX1-_r0yUr6lK

Been buying magnesium since my wife's pregnancy, and she still takes them afterwards.