Qatar World Cup thread of off-the-pitch drama and debauchery

[Skipper 6,135]

7 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

Didn’t want to thread shit on the WC thread but I just can’t bring myself to give a shit about this when it is at the wrong time of the year.  This is when baseball ends and football is king.  Summer is for Olympic sports and futbol.  I tried watching and put it back on music.  I will try again this weekend if there is nothing else to do.

 

I agree with this for the most part.  It definitely feels off.  That being said, I'm really looking forward to waking up to world cup games over the holiday weekend and having it on the side TV during the early football games.  

[52-80 19,159]

World offside cup

[Guest]

Son texts me this morning during NYC commute:  Couldn't figure out why everyone was on their damned phones.  Slow ass walkers just looking at screens everywhere, slowing me down without my coffee yet.  Then I remembered World Cup.

LOLz.  

[Murfdogg21 4,412]

16 hours ago, slorch said:

How would Derrick Henry or Micah Parsons be in Rugby?

 

Our best athletes ain't necessarily on the rugby field.

16 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

That’s their national team vs. ours.  I didn’t realize we get to make our best athletes play a sport against their will.  We’d probably be pretty good after 6 months.

I didn’t see it here and didn’t venture into the game threads with the hardcores, but for once I was on ESPN’s side of a stupid debate. They posted this terrible photoshop with some of the best US athletes and caught shit for disrespecting our USMNT players. Who gives a shit? You know how USMNT could earn some respect? Win some fucking games against good teams, or at least win the games you’re supposed to! And if they feel disrespected, maybe they should use that as “us against the world” fuel instead of being a joke of international competition for 20+ years.

[Hpara759 1,778]

first off: I am not a soccer fan

but the first thing I thought of when I saw the finale USA score, was population:

Wales:  3.1 million

USA:  332 million

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Hpara759

['stache 21,815]

52 minutes ago, Hpara759 said:

first off: I am not a soccer fan

but the first thing I thought of when I saw the finale USA score, was population:

Wales:  3.1 million

USA:  332 million

 

Isn't that addressed above? Soccer is the primary, likely the only truly high level sport for that country, and they've been doing it for centuries. It's around 5th in priority at the pro level here and maybe lower at the high school level. Our best athletes just don't play soccer. It's gaining in popularity but will never eclipse the big three at the pro level.

[huge 3,793]

21 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Isn't that addressed above? Soccer is the primary, likely the only truly high level sport for that country, and they've been doing it for centuries. It's around 5th in priority at the pro level here and maybe lower at the high school level. Our best athletes just don't play soccer. It's gaining in popularity but will never eclipse the big three at the pro level.

Due to population and money sooner or later we are going to be able to make a run in a world cup 

[UTexasFight 9,450]

2 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

 

How is Micah Parsons not in the starting XI? 
Fucking Gergg.

[UTexasFight 9,450]

7 minutes ago, huge said:

Due to population and money sooner or later we are going to be able to make a run in a world cup 

All signs trending towards to later…

i’m willing to bet you could find an oped from the New York Times arguing that same thing from back in the ‘50s.

[YGIFS 19,450]

You take the best "Americans" just starting in college, not even U18 leagues.  At middle infield/CF, guards in hoops, a couple of token hockey players, and skill position/DB's in football.  Let them train together for just a solitary year....they'd wipe the floor with the "football tradition" countries.  Just gotta throw good money at the problem.

Then again, fuck Qatar.  

Edited November 22, 2022 by YGIFS

[Steel Shank 9,425]

9 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

You take the best "Americans" just starting in college, not even U18 leagues.  At middle infield/CF, guards in hoops, a couple of token hockey players, and skill position/DB's in football.  Let them train together for just a solitary year....they'd wipe the floor with the "football tradition" countries.  Just gotta throw good money at the problem.

Then again, fuck Qatar.  

Maybe the Saudi's will fund.

[Hpara759 1,778]

27 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

 a couple of token hockey players

oh, I can just imagine

[Grade of D as in David 13,253]

4 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

I didn’t see it here and didn’t venture into the game threads with the hardcores, but for once I was on ESPN’s side of a stupid debate. They posted this terrible photoshop with some of the best US athletes and caught shit for disrespecting our USMNT players. Who gives a shit? You know how USMNT could earn some respect? Win some fucking games against good teams, or at least win the games you’re supposed to! And if they feel disrespected, maybe they should use that as “us against the world” fuel instead of being a joke of international competition for 20+ years.

Well the basketball players already know how to flop.

[utee94 15,823]

24 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Well the basketball players already know how to flop.

And so do LSU football players.

[conVINCEd 21,469]

9 minutes ago, utee94 said:

And so do LSU football players.

There is a one week moratorium on talking shit about LSU.  Feel free to resume on Sunday.  Geaux Tigers!

[0xdeadbeef 1,651]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

You take the best "Americans" just starting in college, not even U18 leagues.  At middle infield/CF, guards in hoops, a couple of token hockey players, and skill position/DB's in football.  Let them train together for just a solitary year....they'd wipe the floor with the "football tradition" countries.  Just gotta throw good money at the problem.

Then again, fuck Qatar.  

 

The Dominican Republic has the population of about the Chicago Metro area and yet they make up about 10% of MLB players.   

Canada has the population of about Texas and yet they make up 42% of NHL players. (US is only 27% of NHL) 

The common theme there is that those two countries are ALL-IN for their sport.  In large parts of the world they go all-in for soccer. 

The US is never going to make Soccer the National Pastime. We should get more competitive, and we may even win a WC, but we are never going to wipe the floor with countries that live and breathe the sport from the youngest age.

 

If someone suggested to you that China, with 4 times the US population, was going to take their best and "let them train together for just a solitary year" and then was planning on kicking the NFL's ass, what would your reaction be?   

 

And yes, indeed, fuck Qatar.

 

[texasdago 7,573]

 

This is so dumb.  Just because they are kickass athletes in one sport does not mean they would be kickass in soccer.  That tweet was one of the most idiotic American tweets I've seen in a while.  

5'7" Messi is not worried about playing Kevin Durant in soccer.

[conVINCEd 21,469]

Allen Iverson would’ve been  a hell of a soccer player.

[52-80 19,159]

6 hours ago, 'stache said:

Isn't that addressed above? Soccer is the primary, likely the only truly high level sport for that country, and they've been doing it for centuries. It's around 5th in priority at the pro level here and maybe lower at the high school level. Our best athletes just don't play soccer. It's gaining in popularity but will never eclipse the big three at the pro level.

but out of 100 americans kids, even if only 2 of them pursued soccer, that would give the US a 2x demographic advantage. 

in esoteric olympics sports, US takes all the medals (as they statistically should)

dutch and portuguese are also pretty good relative to their size

[conVINCEd 21,469]

38 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

but out of 100 americans kids, even if only 2 of them pursued soccer, that would give the US a 2x demographic advantage. 

in esoteric olympics sports, US takes all the medals (as they statistically should)

dutch and portuguese are also pretty good relative to their size

Statistically shouldn’t China and India win everything?

[52-80 19,159]

34 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Statistically shouldn’t China and India win everything?

Too poor (in aggregate). Less infrastructure support to develop the sport and athletes. 

[F250 28,776]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

but out of 100 americans kids, even if only 2 of them pursued soccer, that would give the US a 2x demographic advantage. 

Would it matter? What is the highest level of subsidized soccer that exists in the U.S.?

Football is subsidized from middle school through college. The sport is free to play and learn for anyone with publicly provided infrastructure up until the professional level. Football is just going to tap into a larger talent pool of athletes with this amount of public support.

Soccer might be more comparable to baseball and basketball where higher competition exists outside of the high school level but I don't think the conduit to College baseball and basketball or the Milb and G league exist for soccer.

 

[CooterBrown 18,012]

Would it matter? What is the highest level of subsidized soccer that exists in the U.S.?
Football is subsidized from middle school through college. The sport is free to play and learn for anyone with publicly provided infrastructure up until the professional level. Football is just going to tap into a larger talent pool of athletes with this amount of public support.
Soccer might be more comparable to baseball and basketball where higher competition exists outside of the high school level but I don't think the conduit to College baseball and basketball or the Milb and G league exist for soccer.
 

If your playing college soccer, you’re probably past your window of being elite. Really elite. Not MLS elite.

We need real soccer academies that take kids away from their parents at 15 to live and breath soccer. If they’re not first team capable by 20, they’re spit out into the street.

Until we have multiple tiers of pro soccer clubs, all with development academies, I don’t know if we will have enough opportunities for our population demographics to matter.

[Parliament 14,260]

So a meat market, just like hockey.

[Sam Lin 3,559]

8 hours ago, huge said:

Due to population and money sooner or later we are going to be able to make a run in a world cup 

You mean sooner or later the US population will all be too fat to play in a World Cup.

[F250 28,776]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

So a meat market, just like hockey.

Or baseball. What was described by Cooter sounds more like the baseball factories in the Caribbean Islands.

[ztejas 43,452]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

but out of 100 americans kids, even if only 2 of them pursued soccer, that would give the US a 2x demographic advantage. 

You only need 15-20 good players for a good international team. 

Honestly not even that... the margins in soccer are very thin. There are a vast amount of players who are good enough to not get totally embarassed on the pitch at an event like the WC. It's fairly easy for a lesser team to tie or win a game. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by ztejas

[Js1 85,338]

2 hours ago, Sam Lin said:

You mean sooner or later the US population will all be too fat to play in a World Cup.

They will make a run

To the bathroom

After they shart themselves 

‘Murica 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Js1

[gsoda3 3,262]

4 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

Statistically shouldn’t China and India win everything?

malnutrition negatively affects probably > 90% of those respective populations.  even the rich in asia don't have the same daily access to protein the poor do in the west.

[conVINCEd 21,469]

21 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

malnutrition negatively affects probably > 90% of those respective populations.  even the rich in asia don't have the same daily access to protein the poor do in the west.

That’s fair, but you would think if they identified talent early they could feed them well.

Edited November 23, 2022 by conVINCEd

[Hermanator 7,050]

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

malnutrition negatively affects probably > 90% of those respective populations.  even the rich in asia don't have the same daily access to protein the poor do in the west.

Have you seen Americans? 

Not the bastion of proper nutrition. 

15 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

I didn’t see it here and didn’t venture into the game threads with the hardcores, but for once I was on ESPN’s side of a stupid debate. They posted this terrible photoshop with some of the best US athletes and caught shit for disrespecting our USMNT players. Who gives a shit? You know how USMNT could earn some respect? Win some fucking games against good teams, or at least win the games you’re supposed to! And if they feel disrespected, maybe they should use that as “us against the world” fuel instead of being a joke of international competition for 20+ years.

Just more dumb American bullshit. Do people think other countries don't have 6'10 guys? Wonder why none of them are in the world cup? 

Durant, LeBron, Adebayo aren't the right body type for the sport. You'd have to use basically all smaller basketball guards and defensive backs/receivers. And none of them know how to do jack shit with their feet other than run. 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Hermanator

[52-80 19,159]

Enter crouchinho

 

 

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

Fuck Qatar. Fuck organized crime. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

7 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Have you seen Americans? 

Not the bastion of proper nutrition. 

 

There's a big difference in improper nutrition and no nutrition. And a poor diet isn't going to slow down an otherwise young and healthy athletic person at 20 years old or so.

[Bateshorn 9,927]

9 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

malnutrition negatively affects probably > 90% of those respective populations.  even the rich in asia don't have the same daily access to protein the poor do in the west.

Tell me you haven’t walked through the Seoul or Hong Kong airport without telling me you haven’t walked through those airports. Rich East Asian travelers are fat as fuck. Like American Midwest Fat. 
 

Soccer is a niche sport for wealthy mostly white suburbanites in this country.  I live in Prince George’s County, MD.  It’s majority minority. Kevin Durant is from Hyattsville.  The DeMatha football and basketball machine is 10 minutes from my house. This county produces an incredible array of athletes, and it’s not poor. But soccer is barely an after thought.  The quality of the fields is appalling.  The coaches are just dads.  There’s barely a travel team infrastructure.  But you go to Howard or Montgomery counties, and it’s soccer complex after soccer complex.  
 

The talent pool we mostly mine is about a dozen wealthy white communities.  We might have 300 million people, but the nation that actually plays soccer past 5th grade is tiny. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Bateshorn

[HenryJames 66,055]

4 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

 We might have 300 million people, but the nation that actually plays soccer past 5th grade is tiny. 

This. 

[DDD Dad 14,339]

SIAP. Got here late (7pages in). 
 

 

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

21 hours ago, 'stache said:

 It's gaining in popularity but will never eclipse the big three at the pro level.

Never is a long time

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

30 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Tell me you haven’t walked through the Seoul or Hong Kong airport without telling me you haven’t walked through those airports. Rich East Asian travelers are fat as fuck. Like American Midwest Fat. 
 

Soccer is a niche sport for wealthy mostly white suburbanites in this country.  I live in Prince George’s County, MD.  It’s majority minority. Kevin Durant is from Hyattsville.  The DeMatha football and basketball machine is 10 minutes from my house. This county produces an incredible array of athletes, and it’s not poor. But soccer is barely an after thought.  The quality of the fields is appalling.  The coaches are just dads.  There’s barely a travel team infrastructure.  But you go to Howard or Montgomery counties, and it’s soccer complex after soccer complex.  
 

The talent pool we mostly mine is about a dozen wealthy white communities.  We might have 300 million people, but the nation that actually plays soccer past 5th grade is tiny. 

My six year old daughter does soccer at the academy level. I'm a classic mostly scotch-irish with a smattering of pretty much every western European white guy, but my wife is Hispanic. Every other girl on her team is Hispanic with the exception of one kid whose dad is British and who played soccer in college over here and now does sports training professionally. The level of talent between our teams and the local public sports teams is a huge and vast chasm. We are developing great soccer players right now, and, at least from a Texas perspective, the vast majority of them are Hispanic. We have a huge nation with tons of people, and we are just now entering the phase where enough of them who were soccer fans growing up are wealthy enough to put their kids in advanced programs at a young age. When this younger generation grows up, we will have the talent pool we need. The real question is whether or not the sport will be popular enough to give it the money it needs to truly develop a professional team at the level that is required to compete on the WC stage.

[52-80 19,159]

So theres a japanese goalkeeper named Daniel Schmidt who was born in the US to a german father.  They call him Danieru Schumitto.

 

pretty neat

[Murfdogg21 4,412]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

My six year old daughter does soccer at the academy level. I'm a classic mostly scotch-irish with a smattering of pretty much every western European white guy, but my wife is Hispanic. Every other girl on her team is Hispanic with the exception of one kid whose dad is British and who played soccer in college over here and now does sports training professionally. The level of talent between our teams and the local public sports teams is a huge and vast chasm. We are developing great soccer players right now, and, at least from a Texas perspective, the vast majority of them are Hispanic. We have a huge nation with tons of people, and we are just now entering the phase where enough of them who were soccer fans growing up are wealthy enough to put their kids in advanced programs at a young age. When this younger generation grows up, we will have the talent pool we need. The real question is whether or not the sport will be popular enough to give it the money it needs to truly develop a professional team at the level that is required to compete on the WC stage.

A dad probably said this on Hornfans in 2001 too. 

[mdmost 43,001]

Danes will probably be standing alone on this

 

[Don Johnson 4,753]

22 hours ago, YGIFS said:

You take the best "Americans" just starting in college, not even U18 leagues.  At middle infield/CF, guards in hoops, a couple of token hockey players, and skill position/DB's in football.  Let them train together for just a solitary year....they'd wipe the floor with the "football tradition" countries.  Just gotta throw good money at the problem.

Then again, fuck Qatar.  

Soccer isn't a sport you just pick up in a year or two, no matter how good of an athlete you are.  Same with baseball and basketball.  

[sidis 9,828]

it is amazing that we have to have this discussion every four years like clockwork but there it is.

no emphasis on the sport whatsoever in the youth.

more importantly, the economic motivation is simply not the same.  average mls salary just went over $350K for the first time this year.  the mls average is half that of the cba bargained minimum salary in the nfl and 10% of the average nfl salary.  the average in the nba is $7.5 million.  the economic driver is simply not there like it is in other countries and that's the end of it.  period.  quite a few texas longhorn football players make more in NIL money as college players than mls professional players make.  atlanta had the biggest wage bill in mls at $20 million and they had a couple of aged super stars.  kevin de bruyne made that by himself at man city last year.  justin verlander made 50% more than that by himself last year.  stephen curry made more than double that by himself last year.

moreover, as alex ferguson said, we haven't given up the delusion/illusion of committing kids to sport in SPITE of education instead of along with it.  "we did not come here to play no damn school" is fully embraced elsewhere for the select few that show that promise.

the classic story of reggie bush or deion sanders or bijan robinson or christian mccaffrey or bo jackson or desean jackson or jaylen waddle and on and on and on playing and receiving the same full on commitment to the sport is tired and trite but is, of course, extremely accurate.  if those guys went through academy from age 5 and were playing league games on the same timeline and with the same coaching as kylian mbappe did, you know how this story would go.  some goober dude from wales ain't shutting that down and limiting them to a single goal...for precisely the same reason that in the all time olympic medal table, the united states has 2,959 medals while the next highest country in the soviet union has 1,204 and the UK has fewer than a thousand.

but they don't...and they won't...so it doesn't matter at all.  sports center tweet, if real, was dumb.

Edited November 23, 2022 by sidis

[52-80 19,159]

15 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Soccer isn't a sport you just pick up in a year or two, no matter how good of an athlete you are.  Same with baseball and basketball.  

Michael Jeffrey Jordan first picked up a basketball and threw it in a peach basket at the age of 24, 3 months before he won the NBA slam dunk contest

[Bateshorn 9,927]

14 minutes ago, sidis said:

moreover, as alex ferguson said, we haven't given up the delusion/illusion of committing kids to sport in SPITE of education instead of along with it.  "we did not come here to play no damn school" is fully embraced elsewhere for the select few that show that promise.

 

This point about the quaint American notion of scholar athletes is so spot on.  Even with baseball and basketball, which have post HS amatuer drafts, we still make the player at least go through the motion of going to school, even if they learn very little.  Soccer does not.  There's no learning going on in those academies outside of soccer.  I think most American's can not wrap their minds about how graft ridden, results oriented, and money driven international soccer is.  We tend to view it through our lightly corrupt professional sports ("Oh, those Astros. Naughty, Naughty!!"  No Coaches Challenges in the last two minutes!!! RIGGED!!). FIFA is just a different world.  The players are used up and tossed out at a young age, bought and sold like property until they become truly international stars.  And soccer oriented nations throw entire armies of young athletes into this system.  The best analogy I can give is the Chinese and gymnastics.  Basically, can you read and do basic addition and subtraction?  You've had enough school. Go play soccer. If you fail, hit the fucking bricks.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Bateshorn

[ABSR 5,312]

15 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

If your playing college soccer, you’re probably past your window of being elite. Really elite. Not MLS elite.

We need real soccer academies that take kids away from their parents at 15 to live and breath soccer. If they’re not first team capable by 20, they’re spit out into the street.

Until we have multiple tiers of pro soccer clubs, all with development academies, I don’t know if we will have enough opportunities for our population demographics to matter.

We do, and have.  This is the one for FC Dallas in DFW area.

"The FC Dallas Academy was launched in 2008 as platform to promote talented youth players into professional soccer. Heralded as the top MLS Academy by many, the program continues to develop pros at a remarkable rate. So far, 34 academy players have been signed to Home Grown contracts since 2009: the most in MLS. Among the FC Dallas Academy alumni are well known international stars Weston McKennie, Kellyn Acosta, Ricardo Pepi, Chris Richards, and Jesus Ferreira. In addition to individual accolades, the FC Dallas Academy has won many international events, Dallas Cups including the U19 Super Group in 2017, and four US Soccer Development Academy championships. In 2016, the FC Dallas Academy won both the U16 and U18 USSDA National Championships in the same year, a feat never replicated.

Today, the FC Dallas Academy plays year-round as a member of MLS Next, the “new elite youth competition platform intended to provide year-round high-level matches for MLS club academy teams and non-MLS academy teams that previously participated in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy.”

 

https://www.fcdallas.com/mlsnext/about

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

45 minutes ago, sidis said:

it is amazing that we have to have this discussion every four years like clockwork but there it is.

no emphasis on the sport whatsoever in the youth.

more importantly, the economic motivation is simply not the same.  average mls salary just went over $350K for the first time this year.  the mls average is half that of the cba bargained minimum salary in the nfl and 10% of the average nfl salary.  the average in the nba is $7.5 million.  the economic driver is simply not there like it is in other countries and that's the end of it.  period.  quite a few texas longhorn football players make more in NIL money as college players than mls professional players make.  atlanta had the biggest wage bill in mls at $20 million and they had a couple of aged super stars.  kevin de bruyne made that by himself at man city last year.  justin verlander made 50% more than that by himself last year.  stephen curry made more than double that by himself last year.

moreover, as alex ferguson said, we haven't given up the delusion/illusion of committing kids to sport in SPITE of education instead of along with it.  "we did not come here to play no damn school" is fully embraced elsewhere for the select few that show that promise.

the classic story of reggie bush or deion sanders or bijan robinson or christian mccaffrey or bo jackson or desean jackson or jaylen waddle and on and on and on playing and receiving the same full on commitment to the sport is tired and trite but is, of course, extremely accurate.  if those guys went through academy from age 5 and were playing league games on the same timeline and with the same coaching as kylian mbappe did, you know how this story would go.  some goober dude from wales ain't shutting that down and limiting them to a single goal...for precisely the same reason that in the all time olympic medal table, the united states has 2,959 medals while the next highest country in the soviet union has 1,204 and the UK has fewer than a thousand.

but they don't...and they won't...so it doesn't matter at all.  sports center tweet, if real, was dumb.

You're right, soccer as a sport does not currently have the popularity it needs to put the money it needs into developing the kind of athletes we need need in the US to compete on an international level at the WC. We have plenty of young talent being developed, but until there is real money involved we won't see that talent develop beyond the high school or college level. As the younger generations grow up, however, the popularity of the sport should increase and eventually has the potential to get there. With our population size soccer doesn't need to be as popular as football in order to get there.

Edited November 23, 2022 by NotActuallyALonghorn

[gsoda3 3,262]

3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Tell me you haven’t walked through the Seoul or Hong Kong airport without telling me you haven’t walked through those airports. Rich East Asian travelers are fat as fuck. Like American Midwest Fat. 

i've been there plenty.  my mom's side are rich hong kongers.  you can't look at a transient population (people in airports...) and glean any type of demographic insight.  generational studies of immigrants and their children keep showing the nutritional benefits of living in the west from birth vs living in developing nations.  it's not something credibly debatable but we're surly so here we are.  

[BrickHorn 18,236]

3 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

My six year old daughter does soccer at the academy level. I'm a classic mostly scotch-irish with a smattering of pretty much every western European white guy, but my wife is Hispanic. Every other girl on her team is Hispanic with the exception of one kid whose dad is British and who played soccer in college over here and now does sports training professionally. The level of talent between our teams and the local public sports teams is a huge and vast chasm. We are developing great soccer players right now, and, at least from a Texas perspective, the vast majority of them are Hispanic. We have a huge nation with tons of people, and we are just now entering the phase where enough of them who were soccer fans growing up are wealthy enough to put their kids in advanced programs at a young age. When this younger generation grows up, we will have the talent pool we need. The real question is whether or not the sport will be popular enough to give it the money it needs to truly develop a professional team at the level that is required to compete on the WC stage.

Good point. It’s possible that one day, the US will finally be able to compete with Mexico in women’s soccer.