5 killed 18 injured in colorado springs gay nightclub shooting

[Dahobbs 17,812]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

This is a great post.

...now would the people that you typically vote for back any of these?

Let's play nice and sing kumbaya just for a little bit before getting back in the fray. I'd like to enjoy the moment. Also, maybe if we throw in the legalization of prostitution, some of these things can pass. It'll just take a lot of "in kind" donations. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Dahobbs

[FartingMonk 3,608]

9 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

You don’t think certain guns should have striver age restrictions? What about longer wait times?

I'm all for 10 day waiting periods if you don't have a CHL.  I think there is absolutely no reason that you need a gun that bad that you don't need to wait 10 days.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

22 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

This is a great post.

...now would the people that you typically vote for back any of these?

I don’t want to delve into it, but I’d be happier is we had a bunch of folks from #BoThSiDeS that would agree to get this little stuff done first, then tackle the hard ones.  Or concede some of the ones I didnt mention like suppressor/SBR/etc.  Give and take, what it’s all about. I realize there’s one side who’s less about giving than the other.  I’m not happy with the way either is approaching it.  
 

29 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

You don’t think certain guns should have striver age restrictions? What about longer wait times?

For sure. I’m not a pistol guy, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but they are 21+ I believe, while long guns are 18+.   So the precedent is there.   This falls into the whole “doesn’t affect me” category, so…   But yeah, I’m all for level headed restrictions.  

I don’t want to even bring it up because I’ve not said a word about it for a long time now, but there are restrictions you can make to certain, more destructive calibers, etc, and still not paint with such a broad brush on the actual Arm.  (Intentionally vague there).

I’m not sure why wait times can’t be longer, significantly in some cases.   I’d like to think we can find some middle ground between walking out of the store same day with it, and 300+ days like NFA items? 
 

My biggest concern (aside from the violence) is the politicalization of it all.  I don’t want to delve into it here (not right board, and don’t want to visit it in proper board) but it’s very clear the men leading the last 8 years in WH weren’t/aren’t even remotely educated on the subject.   Right, wrong, or indifferent, it’s a major part of America, and it would be nice it if was handled by non-partisan “experts”, or an actual bipartisan board/committee.   

You asked earlier what people (the singular) type can do.  I don’t sell any guns to general people.  It’s a friends and family deal (even then, I just don’t often sell).  I’ve got many I don’t have a need for anymore.  But at the same time, $250 buy back on a 2k rifle is tough to swallow.  So they sit in the back of a safe.   The biggest thing “people” (singular) can do right this moment (without additional legislation) is safely store them, and be extremely particular if you ever decide to sell/trade.  Then again, we aren’t really worried about the sane folks that’s follow the rules. 

[Brian Fantana 6,708]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

You should read @Brian Fantana s homophobic post from 11/20.

What a disgusting excuse for a human.


It was also like by 26 people who are all equally disgusting.

Either quote the post, tag me properly, or both you coward bitch.

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

For sure. I’m not a pistol guy, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but they are 21+ I believe, while long guns are 18+.   So the precedent is there.   This falls into the whole “doesn’t affect me” category, so…   But yeah, I’m all for level headed restrictions.  
I don’t want to even bring it up because I’ve not said a word about it for a long time now, but there are restrictions you can make to certain, more destructive calibers, etc, and still not paint with such a broad brush on the actual Arm.  (Intentionally vague there).
I’m not sure why wait times can’t be longer, significantly in some cases.   I’d like to think we can find some middle ground between walking out of the store same day with it, and 300+ days like NFA items? 
 
My biggest concern (aside from the violence) is the politicalization of it all.  I don’t want to delve into it here (not right board, and don’t want to visit it in proper board) but it’s very clear the men leading the last 8 years in WH weren’t/aren’t even remotely educated on the subject.   Right, wrong, or indifferent, it’s a major part of America, and it would be nice it if was handled by non-partisan “experts”, or an actual bipartisan board/committee.   
You asked earlier what people (the singular) type can do.  I don’t sell any guns to general people.  It’s a friends and family deal (even then, I just don’t often sell).  I’ve got many I don’t have a need for anymore.  But at the same time, $250 buy back on a 2k rifle is tough to swallow.  So they sit in the back of a safe.   The biggest thing “people” (singular) can do right this moment (without additional legislation) is safely store them, and be extremely particular if you ever decide to sell/trade.  Then again, we aren’t really worried about the sane folks that’s follow the rules. 

I appreciate the answer and the discourse. I wish more on the right on this board could do that. I’m a CR amateur, but I know that if you go in there with the intent to discuss things in this manner, no sane person is going to jump all over you.

The thing is, you don’t want it to be politicized, but it is a political issue. As you said, one side doesn’t want to concede anything. Perhaps that is part of the reason some on the far left say things like Beto did out of emotion in the heat of the moment.

It seems like one side of the political spectrum doesn’t want to address or even compromise on things like:

Healthcare (this is vital to getting every citizen the care they need, especially mental health)

Hate speech (and politicians that promote it and support far right rhetoric)

Sensible gun control. I think all your ideas are great. And here is the but…

I doubt you vote for anyone that would support this. Most likely you would have to vote democrat and I highly doubt you would. I’m not trying to single you out. You are worried about some hypothetical slippery slope.

Usually at this point the right says: well, this is just one issue. A cop out to why they won’t change how they vote. This seems like a REALLY important issue.

[Brisketexan 105,580]

Safe storage laws would do more to reduce American firearms deaths than any other legal measure discussed. It would sharply reduce accidental deaths and most importantly, suicides by other members of the household, along with members of the household using a gun in an crime/murder….but it is a non-starter.
The opposition to such laws comes entirely from one side of the political spectrum. And they are incredibly successful at doing so.
Nothing meaningful will ever happen, and it’s entirely attributable to one side of the aisle. Which is insane, because rational gun owners like flattie and me - who vote on different sides of the aisle - support them. But one side/party opposes such laws 100%, no exceptions.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

2 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Perhaps that is part of the reason some on the far left say things like Beto did out of emotion in the heat of the moment.

He did. He was all over the place on the issue, from start to finish.  Now, is it reasonable to change your mind once it “hits home”? Of course.  Do I think he spoke before thinking an actual solution through, yes.  
 

4 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Sensible gun control. I think all your ideas are great. And here is the but…

I doubt you vote for anyone that would support this. Most likely you would have to vote democrat and I highly doubt you would. I’m not trying to single you out. You are worried about some hypothetical slippery slope.

Usually at this point the right says: well, this is just one issue. A cop out to why they won’t change how they vote. This seems like a REALLY important issue.

For sure. But here’s the thing, and I think this would work (keep in mind while this is an important issue, everyone has their pet issue).  The pols need to take their ass to work, and vote on this:

1) week 1 - safe storage law. Blah blah blah, govt will provide a tax credit up to $$$ for those making less than $$$. Must have proof to purchase firearm from FFL or retail. That’s it.  Get that done. Takes 1 week.  Now that’s done and our suicides and child access (school shootings) will drop, likely significantly.  
 

But we aren’t done. 

Following week, let’s vote on the mandatory education class.  Make it doable for everyone, and reasonable and get something passed. Let’s act like we actually want to do something. Even Rs should be onboard because it’s a nothing burger concession.   Now you have a small barrier to purchase, it might help. I dunno. 
 

But what we WILL GET is a bill with 397 pages, a fucking bridge and new hospital in bumfuckville, and some other horseshit. The Rs will bitch because poors are getting a free safe, the Ds will claim it violates the civil rights of BIPOC because it’s difficult to move a gun safe between rental houses, and homeownership is only for wealthy WASPs and we’re back to thisisamerica.gif.  
 

Im far from a polisci guru like some on the board, but I know that tackling small independent tasks add up to change.  Being afraid to tackle Everest keeps you on the ground looking up. 

[FartingMonk 3,608]

The gun control thing is all pretty stupid.  I own guns.  Quite a bit of them.  I own ARs in many calibers.  The high capacity shit is pretty much a non starter with me.  Hey drag around an AR10 with .308s in it with a 30 round mag.  Tell me you're a hunter.  I'm gonna tell you you're a douchebag that is gonna get really tired because shit be heavy.  My shotguns when I hunt ducks.  Man I gotta put stuff in there to limit my bullets to shoot ducks before I have to reload.  My pistols if I get into some sort of weird firefight.  I hope to God I don't have to shoot at you 15 times before I hit you.  Go into a deer stand.  How many shots do you have to pop off before you realize you missed that deer.  I bet it's less than 5

 

 

[FartingMonk 3,608]

But back to the topic.  How did they not notice fat ass roly poly incel walking with a fucking long gun and an cosplay body armor before it was too late 

[Surlymermaid 444]

Yeah, mass murderer, but at least he’s not gay…wtaf

[fattyflattie 4,639]

8 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

But back to the topic.  How did they not notice fat ass roly poly incel walking with a fucking long gun and an cosplay body armor before it was too late 

A club at midnight?   

[fattyflattie 4,639]

5 minutes ago, Surlymermaid said:

Yeah, mass murderer, but at least he’s not gay…wtaf
 

JFC. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,687]

that guy is fucked up out of his mind. The shooter can DIAF but both parents appear to be absolute psychopaths.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Jesus fucking Christ, his father is a piece of garbage and needs his stupid ass beaten.

Can someone please live stream it when he gets the latest news that his son is “claiming” to be non-binary?

[Dahobbs 17,812]

2 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

I came here for the back tracking too lol. Narrative changed quickly once they realized the evil right wing red necks weren’t at fault   They really just need to make guns illegal so no one will own them 

I too am here the back tracking. Please tell us how right wing hatred isn't involved (you too @Poe It Up)

19 minutes ago, Surlymermaid said:

Yeah, mass murderer, but at least he’s not gay…wtaf
 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Dahobbs

[tigol 2,421]

Yeah, mass murderer, but at least he’s not gay…wtaf

Not a bit surprised by this. He would fit right in at my Uncle’s Thanksgiving table.

[Surlymermaid 444]

 

But wait, there’s more!

[aggie08 21,588]

Has anybody corroborated the non-binary angle from his time before being arrested? After seeing that piece of shit speak, color me skeptical.

[Dahobbs 17,812]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Has anybody corroborated the non-binary angle from his time before being arrested? After seeing that piece of shit speak, color me skeptical.

Self-hate tracks too. So, not completely inconsistent. I actually buy it more now having heard the dad speak. 

[aggie08 21,588]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Self-hate tracks too. So, not completely inconsistent. I actually buy it more now having heard the dad speak. 

True that.

There's the prototypical dad for making you feel less than human for being different in literally any way.

[aggie08 21,588]

Also, isn't he a porn star? I'm no expert in the business, but there's no way that dude hasn't had another man's dick in his mouth (at best).

[conVINCEd 21,474]

7 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

True that.

There's the prototypical dad for making you feel less than human for being different in literally any way.

Grandaddy too.

[52-80 19,281]

1 hour ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I doubt you vote for anyone that would support this. Most likely you would have to vote democrat and I highly doubt you would. I’m not trying to single you out.

The great thing about America is people have 4 realistic options when it comes to their vote: democrat; republican; anti-democrat; and anti-republic.  There's a choice for every complex viewpoint!

[Bama Chick 28,596]

And his mom.

The first one was posted the night of the shootings.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

This country is fucking broken.

Fuck that cunt. “No evidence they were Christian”??? Murder it is then!

[52-80 19,281]

1 hour ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

that guy is fucked up out of his mind. The shooter can DIAF but both parents appear to be absolute psychopaths.

 

55 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I too am here the back tracking. Please tell us how right wing hatred isn't involved (you too @Poe It Up)

 

Popular notion:  evangelical protestants (and their RW hatred) are to blame

Ultra unpopular notion: shitty family and absent father (from whom the shooter was estranged) are to blame

both can be simultaneously true... but the crowd respond suggests otherwise.

On 11/21/2022 at 6:09 PM, Poe It Up said:

A good number of them don’t have fathers in the home. The breakdown of the family has caused tremendous damage to our society. 

 

[aggie08 21,588]

6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

This country is fucking broken.
 

 

Fuck that cunt. “No evidence they were Christian”??? Murder it is then!

 

I don't wish death on anyone, but that bitch is fucking pushing it. Your 15 minutes are up you worthless sack of shit. Go away.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Also -

They whipped his ass!!!

[conVINCEd 21,474]

10 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

This country is fucking broken.
 

 

Fuck that cunt. “No evidence they were Christian”??? Murder it is then!

 

Shibboleth.

[Covri 6,271]

5 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

 

 

Popular notion:  evangelical protestants (and their RW hatred) are to blame

Ultra unpopular notion: shitty family and absent father (from whom the shooter was estranged) are to blame

both can be simultaneously true... but the crowd respond suggests otherwise.

 

Great fucking timing dumbass, maybe scroll up and see how big of shithead his dad is and think maybe the kid would  have been better off never even knowing his dad.

[52-80 19,281]

5 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Also -
 

 

They whipped his ass!!!

 

 

[52-80 19,281]

2 minutes ago, Covri said:

Great fucking timing dumbass, maybe scroll up and see how big of shithead his dad is and think maybe the kid would  have been better off never even knowing his dad.

do you not understand what shitty family means?  maybe draw from your own experience?

[Dahobbs 17,812]

Just now, 52-80 said:

do you not understand what shitty family means?  maybe draw from your own experience?

I still don't think an absent father was the problem here. Hate, definitely hate. 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Yeahhhhh

An absent father is better than that piece of trash.

[52-80 19,281]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I still don't think an absent father was the problem here. Hate, definitely hate. 

the overall sentiment is having a good family produces probabilisticly good behavior.  a shitty mother or father or both, or absence of one or both, all constitutes bad parentage.

having a parent thats present but a horrible person doesnt make the parentage/upbringing good.  is that not obvious, or did it need to be said explicitly?

[Zepol87 9,263]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Safe storage laws would do more to reduce American firearms deaths than any other legal measure discussed. It would sharply reduce accidental deaths and most importantly, suicides by other members of the household, along with members of the household using a gun in an crime/murder….but it is a non-starter.
The opposition to such laws comes entirely from one side of the political spectrum. And they are incredibly successful at doing so.
Nothing meaningful will ever happen, and it’s entirely attributable to one side of the aisle. Which is insane, because rational gun owners like flattie and me - who vote on different sides of the aisle - support them. But one side/party opposes such laws 100%, no exceptions.

Yep that is needed. I had a family member commit suicide with a pistol that was kept "hidden", it was on top of kitchen cabinets not exactly hidden. I have some family members who were cops and I remember when I was younger they would just take off their belt and place it on top of a dresser. I was never a gun person especially when younger but damn thinking about it as a n adult that was fucking crazy and probably happens everywhere. 

[CooterBrown 18,091]

[Brisketexan 105,580]

Healthy, sane, well-adjusted people from steady, nurturing, kind families are much less vulnerable to the calls of stochastic terrorism than broken people are. Duh.
That’s why stochastic terrorism is aimed at whipping up violence by broken people who are susceptible to the siren call. That is exactly how this violent, murderous movement is supposed to work.
Looks like there’s a good chance that dad was fed a steady diet of hate, and passed along some of that to his son.
And make no mistake about it: mission accomplished. Just ask Jenna Ellis above. It’s the perfect outcome for her and those like her: more non-Christian queers are dead, that’s a win. Maybe these evil queers will learn that we won’t accept their dirty queerness here. And even better, she has deniability; she didn’t pull the trigger. Some unbalanced, pathetic and susceptible creature influenced by the hate she helps spread did it.

I don’t much believe in heaven and hell. But part of me really hopes there IS a hell, so Jenna Ellis can go there.

[Dahobbs 17,812]

11 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

the overall sentiment is having a good family produces probabilisticly good behavior.  a shitty mother or father or both, or absence of one or both, all constitutes bad parentage.

having a parent thats present but a horrible person doesnt make the parentage/upbringing good.  is that not obvious, or did it need to be said explicitly?

I don't think I'm the one missing the point. Do you think this is just the case of bad family, or perhaps more specifically people driven to hate by hateful speech? Because I don't think daddy dearest, as a good republican, got the idea that being gay was evil and not in keeping with good republicans on his own. 

[Newdoc 3,465]

On 11/20/2022 at 11:33 PM, troph said:

You aren’t getting sympathy from the queers defending focus on the family. They are a hate group. I’ve ignored them for years but in my impressionable years they advocated heavily for conversion therapy for gays and lesbians and claimed scripture supported being transgender was sinful.  Thought they do not advocate gun violence against us they do advocate intolerance. Gross, disgusting organization, worthy of severe criticism. 

I appreciate you not being unhinged in your response because I am aware of your revelations about yourself on this site because I'm not responding to frothing unhinged post. I don't belong to Focus on the Family or utilize any of their resources. 

But the original implication (and now admitted as tongue in cheek) that was the violence perpetrated here was directly responsible by groups that disagree with homosexual marriage/lifestyle. Many posters have now decided to make this a referendum on the evangelical church and their views on homosexuality and marriage. You absolutely can find a lot of hateful rhetoric from mainstream "christians" and there have been many threads on the topic. But that's one of the biggest strawman for this shooting that I've seen on this site outside the CR.  

The original topic was whether the shooter was a member of a Christian organization (or received his violent referendum) that advocated for violence toward the community that visits the nightclub. And that's not the case so far.  There is no ground swell movement within evangelical circles to commit or condone violence. Pew research shows well over half of evangelicals support homosexuality or don't think much about it (live and let live). I'm not accusing you of this but it's intellectual dishonesty to pin this recent shooting on one or two factors of influence.

 

On 11/20/2022 at 11:00 PM, Pancho said:

I’m sorry, but not this wasn’t preventable.

Colorado has laws for this. They weren't followed.

These laws were passed partially in response to Sandy Hook. There is failure in the system. But the shooting was preventable. 

[Brisketexan 105,580]

Colorado has laws for this. They weren't followed.
These laws were passed partially in response to Sandy Hook. There is failure in the system. But the shooting was preventable. 

Why weren’t they followed? Dig a bit deeper.

[Beau Vine 54,878]

4 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

I came here for the back tracking too lol. Narrative changed quickly once they realized the evil right wing red necks weren’t at fault  

 

[Beau Vine 54,878]

 

[Beau Vine 54,878]

Dad was a pron star.

I believe I saw his work in "Latina Slut Academy," so this hits close to home.

 

[conVINCEd 21,474]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

Dad was a pron star.

I believe I saw his work in "Latina Slut Academy," so this hits close to home.

 

He also claimed to be Mormon.  Mormon porn stars would rank pretty high on the shortest books I have ever read list.

[Dahobbs 17,812]

12 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

The original topic was whether the shooter was a member of a Christian organization (or received his violent referendum) that advocated for violence toward the community that visits the nightclub. And that's not the case so far.  There is no ground swell movement within evangelical circles to commit or condone violence. Pew research shows well over half of evangelicals support homosexuality or don't think much about it (live and let live). I'm not accusing you of this but it's intellectual dishonesty to pin this recent shooting on one or two factors of influence.

He was apparently a part of LDS, which has some similar features to Evangelical Christianity. 

Of course, I also disagree with the premise of your post. The point wasn't that this was driven directly by someone from Evangelical faith. But rather that the hateful rhetoric from many of those in that faith, along with hateful rhetoric from other groups, foments violence against those groups. 

Finally, noting that "well over half" support or don't care about homosexuality isn't exactly the ringing endorsement you think it is. The negative implication is that a significant portion are against homosexuality, which, you know, describes a "groundswell" movement. 

[Royalfan5 2,355]

3 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

He also claimed to be Mormon.  Mormon porn stars would rank pretty high on the shortest books I have ever read list.

Maybe male Mormon porn stars, but women raised Mormon and ending up in porn is a time honored cliche 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Has anybody corroborated the non-binary angle from his time before being arrested? After seeing that piece of shit speak, color me skeptical.

I came here to ask the board's opinion on this tack by the perp.  Is Nick "trolling the system" or WTF is the situation.

Cliff notes:  Newscasts this evening about the hearing are saying the perp is claiming to be "Non-binary" and uses pronouns of They/Them and will be addressed as " Nick Aldrich" in the courtroom, not Mr Aldrich.

Edited November 23, 2022 by slorch

[52-80 19,281]

34 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't think I'm the one missing the point. Do you think this is just the case of bad family, or perhaps more specifically people driven to hate by hateful speech? Because I don't think daddy dearest, as a good republican, got the idea that being gay was evil and not in keeping with good republicans on his own. 

Why do you propose as if these are mutually exclusive? The world doesn't operate with 1:1 determinism.

If the rest of the world was in perfect harmony, but his family indoctrinates him with extreme hateful prejudice, he wouldn't have done this?  (Or his parents teaching him the right thing, despite external environment, wouldn't have prevented it?)

My personal opinion is that both contributed to what he did.  I find it funny that you all shouted down Poe for suggesting what was most proximal to the case, but praised the vague damnation to a church denomination/movement of which he was not a member.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Colorado has laws for this. They weren't followed.
These laws were passed partially in response to Sandy Hook. There is failure in the system. But the shooting was preventable. 

Colorado has those laws but the El Paso County Sheriff is one of those Constitutional Sheriffs who claim their authority supersedes state and federal law.

He bragged and campaigned on ignoring the laws of Colorado.





The “failure in the system” you’re deflecting about is rogue MAGA law enforcement.