5 killed 18 injured in colorado springs gay nightclub shooting

[aggie08 21555]

12 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

The people who are against kids going to drag shows were the reason for the shootings until it was shown that he calls himself they/them. Somehow this makes sense, no one has called to kill the people, but to shame them. 

 

Seriously, dude, get fucked. The adults are talking. We're having a mildly condescending, two-sided open discussion with 52-80. No one on either side of the table gives a fuck about your juvenile input.

Edited November 24, 2022 by aggie08

[FartingMonk 3608]

Holy fuck.  Did Westboro Baptist Church just join the conversation?

[workswithseed 2119]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Fine. Let's invest in expanded mental healthcare, better public schools, codified abortion rights so people who have no business having children don't, paid parental leave to solidify the family, etc. Along with reasonable gun control laws and finding ways to take the temperature down on the hateful rhetoric. Most of us are for all of these things. Remind me who opposes them vehemently? Many of the same people spouting anti-LGTBQ bullshit? Oh, that's right.

No one is saying it's one specific thing. You're the one being dishonest.

She was able to have an abortion when he was born. Stop being obtuse. 

 

Just now, Dahobbs said:

There is a 50% chance he will be one of these shooters. He is well on that path. Young. Dumb. Angry. Desperate. 

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Naww, man…you’re just being really cruel and evil here. And you shouldn’t.

Churches have to pay tax because some fuck up shoots a gay bar, but if it's shown that he wasn't a radical Christian then its all hunky dory. 

[Brisketexan 105438]

Why do you say this isn't something you'd take your kids? You a homophobe or something? Why is this homophobic? Are children's drag shows for lgbt+ people? 

You should stop now. You really, really, really should. For your own sake.
And also because that drag show didn’t murder anyone this weekend. But 5 people AT a drag show WERE murdered. By a guy who grew up influenced by a father who sees being gay as worse than being a murderer.
You really need to back the fuck up and realize how evil you are being here.

[ultimaton 2982]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

Why do you say this isn't something you'd take your kids? You a homophobe or something? Why is this homophobic? Are children's drag shows for lgbt+ people? 

He's probably afraid someone like you might show up and shoot them.

[52-80 19263]

6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Fine. Let's invest in expanded mental healthcare, better public schools, codified abortion rights so people who have no business having children don't, paid parental leave to solidify the family, etc. Along with reasonable gun control laws and finding ways to take the temperature down on the hateful rhetoric. Most of us are for all of these things. Remind me who opposes them vehemently? Many of the same people spouting anti-LGTBQ bullshit?

So you’re saying its the evangelical Christian Church thats holding back parental leave?

(ok but seriously) you’re leading the question to political affiliation.  When and how exactly has mental health or parental leave been a political battleground? And what does it mean to take the temperature down on rhetoric, in meaningful/legislative context?

Is there a specific candidate or party thats promising full child leave benefit and to make everyone friendly and schools are better across the board?

Personally i agree with most of the points. But you imply theres a person/party ready to deliver on that and i think thats a pipe dream. 

[fattyflattie 4638]

3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Can y’all explain “Ghost guns” to me?

Are they 3D printed or something else?
 

For the most part, yes.  Made a bunch of waves around here last year because someone printed a few hundred lowers at $4 per or thereabouts, and Harris county bought them back for $250/per during a county buyback.  They caught some heat (embarrassed) so now they won’t take them going forwards. Which sucks because they need to be off the street.  But yeah, basically untraceable guns cobbled together.  

[WhatTheBuck 28806]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

ABC news interviewed a neighbor who claimed to be a close friend. He stated the perp never asked to be referred to as non binary 

Also according to the neighbor, Aldrich expressed his hatred of gay people and minorities and used gay slurs.

https://www.newsy.com/stories/neighbor-of-colorado-shooter-on-aldrich-s-temper-paranoia/

https://meaww.com/club-q-shooting-suspect-anderson-lee-made-hateful-comments-toward-lgbtq-community-says-neighbor

[immamac 43175]

19 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Why do you say this isn't something you'd take your kids? You a homophobe or something? Why is this homophobic? Are children's drag shows for lgbt+ people? 

fuckin' see ya later bitch. 

[mchookem 16408]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You should stop now. You really, really, really should. For your own sake.
And also because that drag show didn’t murder anyone this weekend. But 5 people AT a drag show WERE murdered. By a guy who grew up influenced by a father who sees being gay as worse than being a murderer.
You really need to back the fuck up and realize how evil you are being here.

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

I’m not against Christians, I’m just against them having equal rights and want to lock them in prison. What’s the big issue? 

[CooterBrown 18032]

I’m not against Christians, I’m just against them having equal rights and want to lock them in prison. What’s the big issue? 

[Sawbonz 27596]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

no one has called to kill the people, but to shame them.

You’re a liar and idiot

Get fucked

[ChiTownDoc 21175]

Some of you dumbfucks need to figure out how the fuck you neg works.   Don’t engage a bigot or a troll.  Give a fuck you and move on.  

Edited November 24, 2022 by ChiTownDoc

[Dahobbs 17692]

9 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Some of you dumbfucks need to figure out how the fuck you neg works.   Don’t engage a bigot or a troll.  Give a fuck you and move on.  

Counterpoint: engaging let's them hang themselves and get banned. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

How are these guys not getting the absolute fuck sued out of them? 

[TwiceHorn 31554]

12 hours ago, Foosters said:

California has passed laws restricting the sale of high capacity magazines, banning assault rifles sales to persons under 21, and limiting the ability to conceal and carry.

All proposals have been challenged and fought in court by the gun lobby.

Is that a better lens into reality than message board discussions?

Shit, last week a right wing judge ruled that preventing people with active restraining orders from possessing guns violates the 2nd amendment.

Fuck off with the gaslighting.

I'm not even sure that was a right-wing judge.  A lot of them are finding such holdings unavoidable after Breuer.  They don't like it, but feel compelled to rule that way.

[Gil Bang 26048]

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Preach!

Brand new supergays lol

[Captainant 27826]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

How are these guys not getting the absolute fuck sued out of them? 

[Laughs in qualified immunity]

[Captainant 27826]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

For the most part, yes.  Made a bunch of waves around here last year because someone printed a few hundred lowers at $4 per or thereabouts, and Harris county bought them back for $250/per during a county buyback.  They caught some heat (embarrassed) so now they won’t take them going forwards. Which sucks because they need to be off the street.  But yeah, basically untraceable guns cobbled together.  

Honestly, you shouldn't be able to buy as many parts to an AR through the mail without checks as you can. If you can hate fuck a piece of metal with a drill long enough, you'll get an AR lower and literally anyone with a credit card can buy everything else to make it go bang. 

And it'll go together easily because it was designed to be that way. Its a big part of why I built one - it's a fun toy to take to the range. But I also recognize that it's presence has been uniquely dangerous in our society and that something has GOT to change

Edited November 24, 2022 by Captainant

[Beau Vine 54466]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Why do you say this isn't something you'd take your kids? You a homophobe or something? Why is this homophobic? Are children's drag shows for lgbt+ people? 

 

 

[fattyflattie 4638]

18 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Honestly, you shouldn't be able to buy as many parts to an AR through the mail without checks as you can. If you can hate fuck a piece of metal with a drill long enough, you'll get an AR lower and literally anyone with a credit card can buy everything else to make it go bang. 

And it'll go together easily because it was designed to be that way. Its a big part of why I built one - it's a fun toy to take to the range. But I also recognize that it's presence has been uniquely dangerous in our society and that something has GOT to change

Yeah I never really understood why a stripped lower is the “gun” but you can buy 100 uppers and have them shipped right to the house?  I mean I get that it’s most of the action, but still just kind of an odd breakdown for ARs.  Then again, rechambering a bolt action can be as simple as a rebarrel. And you can certainly have a barrel sent right over. So same, but different. 
 

eta: was at range today shooting in daughters rifle before we head to the ranch. I would guess at least 50% of a VERY packed range were ARs. Loud ass motherfuckers. Need a separate range for those guys. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by fattyflattie

[Captainant 27826]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Then again, rechambering a bolt action can be as simple as a rebarrel. And you can certainly have a barrel sent right over. So same, but different. 

My point is that it takes much more effort to do that with a bolt action. 

 

...

 

And bolt action rifles aren't the star of our regular mass shootings. 

[fattyflattie 4638]

Just now, Captainant said:

My point is that it takes much more effort to do that with a bolt action. 

 

...

 

And bolt action rifles aren't the star of our regular mass shootings. 

It takes a bit more work, sure. Instead of pulling a pin, you unscrew a barrel. And depending on what your trying to change to, some headspace work, etc.  I’ve just never thought of it like that.  Just an observation. 

[Handcruser 2805]

How about making getting a gun as difficult to get as it if for a 16 year old to legally drive on a public road?
In-person gun competency evaluation, safety exam, proof of safe storage, registration, more stringent tests for different 'levels' of firearms
Would barely be a speed bump for responsible gun owners with a respect for firearms.
But it would absolutely weed out the 18 year old who gets teased for a speech impediment, and the mush that is an 18 year-old's brain tells him to go out in a blaze of glory.

I think you just proved my point in my post.

Thank you.

[Handcruser 2805]

With more good guys with guns, duh!  Doesn’t wal-Mart sell firearms?   

I’ve read several of your posts on gun reform/gun control/gun rights. You add nothing to the conversation and I am often dumber after reading your posts.

Your posts are a prime example of why sensible things rarely get implemented or taken seriously.

Imagine, if you can, being on the other side of the table and having to negotiate with you and your attitude towards gun rights and gun reform. It wouldn’t get past the salutation phase.

That’s where we are.

[troph 24912]

6 hours ago, Newdoc said:

I appreciate you not being unhinged in your response because I am aware of your revelations about yourself on this site because I'm not responding to frothing unhinged post. I don't belong to Focus on the Family or utilize any of their resources. 

But the original implication (and now admitted as tongue in cheek) that was the violence perpetrated here was directly responsible by groups that disagree with homosexual marriage/lifestyle. Many posters have now decided to make this a referendum on the evangelical church and their views on homosexuality and marriage. You absolutely can find a lot of hateful rhetoric from mainstream "christians" and there have been many threads on the topic. But that's one of the biggest strawman for this shooting that I've seen on this site outside the CR.  

The original topic was whether the shooter was a member of a Christian organization (or received his violent referendum) that advocated for violence toward the community that visits the nightclub. And that's not the case so far.  There is no ground swell movement within evangelical circles to commit or condone violence. Pew research shows well over half of evangelicals support homosexuality or don't think much about it (live and let live). I'm not accusing you of this but it's intellectual dishonesty to pin this recent shooting on one or two factors of influence.

 

Colorado has laws for this. They weren't followed.

These laws were passed partially in response to Sandy Hook. There is failure in the system. But the shooting was preventable. 

Individual evangelicals might be fine it’s when they get in their groups it becomes an existential threat. The SBC, the Texas Republican Party Platform, the Texas Republican leadership have all targeted trans people and families trying to care for their trans kids. Everyone has a gay cousin now so we kinda look the other way at that, well except the other gays those ones aren’t our cousin so yeah they’ll burn in hell and we should walk back their rights too. And by the way, if half of evangelicals don’t think much about us what the hell do you think the other half think?  
 

we don’t need half the church going population to hate us and half to be luke warm, that’s not really a recipe for success even when success is measured only by obtaining and keeping basic human rights and not being massacred.

[ChiTownDoc 21175]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Counterpoint: engaging let's them hang themselves and get banned. 

Imma was gonna ban his ass regardless.  A whole page of back and forth with the moron makes us all dumber.  

[jimmyjazz 46225]

If these evangelicals are outliers who don't represent the entire movement, why the fuck don't the "mainstream" evangelicals do something about them?

[Neonmoon 38130]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

If these evangelicals are outliers who don't represent the entire movement, why the fuck don't the "mainstream" evangelicals do something about them?

They say the things some mainstream Christians can’t say out loud 

[FartingMonk 3608]

42 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

If these evangelicals are outliers who don't represent the entire movement, why the fuck don't the "mainstream" evangelicals do something about them?

Didn't we say the same thing about Islamists?  But I think seriously some might question themselves if they should feel that way.  

[jimmyjazz 46225]

I'm serious.  Many mainstream Protestant denominations have lost a significant percentage of their membership in recent years over seemingly too-liberal positions taken by the church, including Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Episcopalian churches.  Methodists see it coming. 

Why can't the "mainstream" evangelicals split from, say, the Southern Baptist church?

Because they don't actually disagree with the hatred?  Ah, that's a tricky one.  

[Humble Beast 258]

16 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

Dear old dad fought Rich Franklin back in the day.

 

Wait so the dad was a porn Star, was featured on Intervention and fought MMA? What a prolific son of a bitch. 

[chainsaw 9878]

17 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Clearly she was never told that her kid is non-binary.

Kid was arrested last year and there was no mention of it.

Aldrich was slumped over and barely coherent during the court appearance. Not sure how a gender identity was communicated to his lawyers.

 

He only wanted to be Cobra Kai

[FartingMonk 3608]

33 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm serious.  Many mainstream Protestant denominations have lost a significant percentage of their membership in recent years over seemingly too-liberal positions taken by the church, including Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Episcopalian churches.  Methodists see it coming. 

Why can't the "mainstream" evangelicals split from, say, the Southern Baptist church?

Because they don't actually disagree with the hatred?  Ah, that's a tricky one.  

There was an old movie.  Not without my daughter with Sally Field.  The husband has that jihad with himself.  And I think that might be where a lot of people are.  They see the depravity being told by the media and they may be getting uncomfortable and wondering what their comfort level is 

[royiv 9375]

12 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Imagine, if you can, being on the other side of the table and having to negotiate with you and your attitude towards gun rights and gun reform. It wouldn’t get past the salutation phase.

That’s where we are.

What an incredibly disingenuous statement coming from someone who sells these weapons. Have you ever voted for a politician that supported common sense gun laws? Have you quit the NRA due to their refusal to engage in any sort of discussion about regulations that are supported by the majority of Americans? Have you committed to not voting for politicians that accept money from the NRA? Now do you understand why the “other side” might be just a little frustrated? It’s your side that has gotten us to where we are. If politicians talked about common sense gun laws in the wake of mass shootings instead of saying “it coulda been worse” you might see the other side be more receptive.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2682]

14 hours ago, 52-80 said:

So you’re saying its the evangelical Christian Church thats holding back parental leave?

(ok but seriously) you’re leading the question to political affiliation.  When and how exactly has mental health or parental leave been a political battleground? And what does it mean to take the temperature down on rhetoric, in meaningful/legislative context?

Is there a specific candidate or party thats promising full child leave benefit and to make everyone friendly and schools are better across the board?

Personally i agree with most of the points. But you imply theres a person/party ready to deliver on that and i think thats a pipe dream. 

I don't think there's a legislative means to tone down the rhetoric other than to build anti-discrimination protection and allow the culture to catch up. And there's no "both sides" to the hate problem. The right is very proactive in having operatives come up with culture war issues to spread, starting with wing nut groups presenting to Republican governors' associations, councils, AG's, and such that then promulgate model legislation to spread the latest outrage across the country. All the anti-trans bills and the Chris Rufo CRT crap are obvious examples. Astroturfing is not a left-wing thing. And then the right-wing Murdoch and radio universe spreads the issues to the masses so the rubes see the need for all the negative legislation.

I don't believe there's an equivalent level of organization on the left, in terms of coming up with the next new champion "issue.' The left is reactive by nature -- the whole concept of Antifa exemplifies that -- because they're not the ones on the attack against marginalized groups. It's a hell of a lot easier to destroy and demonize than to solve actual problems and advance freedom without exclusion. 

[aggie08 21555]

12 hours ago, Handcruser said:

I think you just proved my point in my post.

Thank you.

I'm lost. What point was that again?

Hopefully it's not your assertion that gun control lobbyists are completely unreasonable. If asking potential gun owners to go through the same "rigorous" testing as a zit-faced 16 year-old does over a weekend to get his license is too much, perhaps we aren't the ones being unreasonable?

[Macanudo 13017]

15 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

How are these guys not getting the absolute fuck sued out of them? 

I believe the phrase you are looking for is qualified immunity.

[Handcruser 2805]

What an incredibly disingenuous statement coming from someone who sells these weapons. Have you ever voted for a politician that supported common sense gun laws? Have you quit the NRA due to their refusal to engage in any sort of discussion about regulations that are supported by the majority of Americans? Have you committed to not voting for politicians that accept money from the NRA? Now do you understand why the “other side” might be just a little frustrated? It’s your side that has gotten us to where we are. If politicians talked about common sense gun laws in the wake of mass shootings instead of saying “it coulda been worse” you might see the other side be more receptive.

Not really.

Again, you’re approaching the situation like you always do (using “you” generically here). It’s why it isn’t going anywhere.

I’m not a fan of the NRA - Ive said that more than once here.

[Handcruser 2805]

I'm lost. What point was that again?
Hopefully it's not your assertion that gun control lobbyists are completely unreasonable. If asking potential gun owners to go through the same "rigorous" testing as a zit-faced 16 year-old does over a weekend to get his license is too much, perhaps we aren't the ones being unreasonable?

Although not my point- I do think gun control lobbyists are completely unreasonable.

I also think gun rights advocates have been completely unreasonable.

As I said directly above - you are coming at this from the same angle you always do and wondering why you’re not getting any action on your “wants”.

Again, there are things we can do. I’m waiting for someone here that is for many of the control mechanisms wanted to change the way you advocate for those changes. You might be amazed by our (mine, industry) reaction. We actually discuss this often.

Try it. Give it a go. Right here.

[royiv 9375]

4 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Not really.

Again, you’re approaching the situation like you always do (using “you” generically here). It’s why it isn’t going anywhere.

I’m not a fan of the NRA - Ive said that more than once here.

No, I don't use you generically. I'm specifically asking what you have done to advance an agenda for common sense gun laws. You, specifically, can't claim to support those things if you don't do anything to advance the agenda. Instead, you, specifically, continue to sell these weapons while you, specifically, do nothing that would actually advance something that the majority of Americans support. So, in conclusion, you, specifically, are a hypocrite for talking out of one side of your mouth while continuing to sell these weapons and do absolutely nothing meaningful except lip service on a message board. 

[royiv 9375]

4 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Although not my point- I do think gun control lobbyists are completely unreasonable.

I also think gun rights advocates have been completely unreasonable.

As I said directly above - you are coming at this from the same angle you always do and wondering why you’re not getting any action on your “wants”.

Again, there are things we can do. I’m waiting for someone here that is for many of the control mechanisms wanted to change the way you advocate for those changes. You might be amazed by our (mine, industry) reaction. We actually discuss this often.

Try it. Give it a go. Right here.

If that is truly the case, why does your industry continue to support the NRA and politicians that accept money from the NRA. Money talks in this country. Pull funding from the NRA and those politicians and I bet you could find a lot of folks that would support advancing an agenda of common sense gun laws that the vast majority of Americans, gun owners and those who don't own guns, support. Instead, the gun industry continues to feed the beast with large amounts of cash and that makes bridging the divide very difficult.

[jimmyjazz 46225]

10 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Although not my point- I do think gun control lobbyists are completely unreasonable.

Can you please elaborate?

 

Quote

Again, there are things we can do. I’m waiting for someone here that is for many of the control mechanisms wanted to change the way you advocate for those changes. You might be amazed by our (mine, industry) reaction. We actually discuss this often.

Wait . . . is your problem with the way some people express their opinions, or is it with those opinions in general?

This probably isn't what you're asking for, but I'll give it a go:  I don't own guns.  For the most part, I don't care if you own guns.  I believe there is no good reason for the average American citizen to own a high capacity, high firing rate weapon.  Other than that, I don't really give a damn -- handguns, shotguns, low capacity rifles -- but I would like to see beefed up waiting periods, closed loopholes, enforced red flag laws, etc.

Every time I say something like this, I get a bunch of pushback, almost like chaff off a military jet -- "I bet you don't know what AR stands for", "tell me what calibers you're referring to", "you don't know the ballistics", etc.  It's all bullshit.  Reasonable people could come to an agreement based on science and an honest assessment of risk VS reward, but only one side is generally reasonable.  That's a fact.

Edited November 24, 2022 by jimmyjazz

[royiv 9375]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Can you please elaborate?

 

Wait . . . is your problem with the way some people express their opinions, or is it with those opinions in general?

This probably isn't what you're asking for, but I'll give it a go:  I don't own guns.  For the most part, I don't care if you own guns.  I believe there is no good reason for the average American citizen to own a high capacity, high firing rate weapon.  Other than that, I don't really give a damn -- handguns, shotguns, low capacity rifles -- but I would like to see beefed up waiting periods, closed loopholes, enforced red flag laws, etc.

Every time I say something like this, I get a bunch of pushback, almost like chaff off a military jet -- "I bet you don't know what AR stands for", "tell me what calibers you're referring to", "you don't know the ballistics", etc.  It's all bullshit.  Reasonable people could come to an agreement based on science and an honest assessment of risk VS reward, but only one side is generally reasonable.  That's a fact.

I wish I could posrep this post multiple times. Pretty well sums up where I stand on guns in this country.

[Handcruser 2805]

Wait . . . is your problem with the way some people express their opinions, or is it with those opinions in general?
This probably isn't what you're asking for, but I'll give it a go:  I don't own guns.  For the most part, I don't care if you own guns.  I believe there is no good reason for the average American citizen to own a high capacity, high firing rate weapon.  Other than that, I don't really give a damn -- handguns, shotguns, low capacity rifles -- but I would like to see beefed up waiting periods, closed loopholes, enforced red flag laws, etc.
Every time I say something like this, I get a bunch of pushback, almost like chaff off a military jet -- "I bet you don't know what AR stands for", "tell me what calibers you're referring to", "you don't know the ballistics", etc.  It's all bullshit.  Reasonable people could come to an agreement based on science and an honest assessment of risk VS reward, but only one side is generally reasonable.  That's a fact.

Appreciate this post.

I hate the come-backs youve mentioned. I will say that banning an AR but not banning a mini-14 shows how much some are not paying attention.

There are differences in a lot of these things you e mentioned, but not enough to obfuscate the goals that we probably all somewhat share. We probably don’t agree on all of them, or how to get there, but there is common ground there.

[jimmyjazz 46225]

5 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

I hate the come-backs youve mentioned. I will say that banning an AR but not banning a mini-14 shows how much some are not paying attention.

You have to understand, though, the average Joe who isn't a collector is mostly reacting to the overarching popularity of the AR-15 and similar weapons in these mass shootings.  It is not our job to understand the entire taxonomy of available weapons.  It is perfectly reasonable to say "we need legal limits on capacity and firing rate", and then work to structure the legal language so those limits get conforming weapons out of the marketplace, and hopefully off the streets.  

I honestly don't believe there is much on "both sides" that such a limitation would be acceptable.  In fact, I'm dead sure there isn't, and no offense, but those who support gun rights and the NRA and whatnot, while sometimes inclined to ACT like they're happy to negotiate, really aren't.

[Handcruser 2805]

You have to understand, though, the average Joe who isn't a collector is mostly reacting to the overarching popularity of the AR-15 and similar weapons in these mass shootings.  It is not our job to understand the entire taxonomy of available weapons.  It is perfectly reasonable to say "we need legal limits on capacity and firing rate", and then work to structure the legal language so those limits get conforming weapons out of the marketplace, and hopefully off the streets.  
I honestly don't believe there is much on "both sides" that such a limitation would be acceptable.  In fact, I'm dead sure there isn't, and no offense, but those who support gun rights and the NRA and whatnot, while sometimes inclined to ACT like they're happy to negotiate, really aren't.

No offense taken man.

[Brian Fantana 6691]

58 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

No offense taken man.

Thank you for engaging honestly on this topic, despite whatever disagreements we may have.