Jump to content

Ivy League, Public Ivy, take aim at USN&WR

Satchel

By Satchel
in Cloak Room

 Share

Recommended Posts

Satchel

Satchel 6908

Posted
Posted

This is a positive development. The USN&WR rankings are a sham:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/top-ranked-law-school-joins-yale-harvard-withdrawing/story?id=93499835

Yale and Harvard universities and the University of California, Berkeley, this week withdrew from U.S. News & World Report's rankings of the country's best law schools, with all three institutions citing conflicts between the annual list and their "values."

All three universities' law schools are in the top 10 of the ranking. Yale has been No. 1 since the rankings began.

U.S. News maintains that its rankings are of value to students, their primary audience.

"In recent years, we have invested significant energy and capital in important initiatives that make our law school a better place but perversely work to lower our scores," Yale Law School Dean Heather K. Gerken said in a statement on Wednesday, the day that her school and Harvard's announced they would leave the rankings, which require each school to submit information via a survey.

Berkeley said on Thursday that it wouldn't participate either, following the two Ivy League schools.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Not sure why CR.  I mean -- just another example of Joe Biden's America where traditions and norms are tossed aside.

In all seriousness, this is kind of interesting to play out. Because right now if you pull out of the rankings, you are in the company of Yale, Harvard, and Cal. Or do you stay in and move up three spots? I imagine there are bonuses for admins tied to rankings.

Any why just law? Why not drop out of all the rankings?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

How do you drop out of a ranking that's bestowed by somebody else?  If I rank my 10 best baseball players right now, can Mike Trout call me up and say "I'm dropping out of your rankings, loser?"  I'd laugh at him. I'd say the only way to drop out of my top 10 is to have a miserable season.

They rely on data from the universities (e.g. how many admits versus how many applicants). If the university doesn't provide that, then USNWR can't use it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5307

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

How do you drop out of a ranking that's bestowed by somebody else?  If I rank my 10 best baseball players right now, can Mike Trout call me up and say "I'm dropping out of your rankings, loser?"  I'd laugh at him. I'd say the only way to drop out of my top 10 is to have a miserable season.

The east way is to not provide them data.  It’s a real double edged sword.  The rankings are important for not top 10 privates because it’s how they get better students to apply (and pay).

Northeastern, Tulane, Vandy, U Chicago, Williams are the types of schools I am talking about.  You could even throw Rice in there as they are right around top 10.

Stanford, MIT, and the ivies don’t need any fucking rankings.  They can pick who they want and still have leftover 4.0 valedictorians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Satchel

Satchel 6908

Posted
  • Author
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

The east way is to not provide them data.  It’s a real double edged sword.  The rankings are important for not top 10 privates because it’s how they get better students to apply (and pay).

Northeastern, Tulane, Vandy, U Chicago, Williams are the types of schools I am talking about.  You could even throw Rice in there as they are right around top 10.

Stanford, MIT, and the ivies don’t need any fucking rankings.  They can pick who they want and still have leftover 4.0 valedictorians.

True, except I don’t think they’re important for non Ivy schools. USN asks competing schools to rank one another based on reputation. That alone should invalidate any credibility this money making scam has with the public.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Does one really need a ranking to know the value of a given school?

The schools playing hard to get is bullshit, of course, so fuck them too; but damn, it's not as if someone bought USN&WR and it dawned on them, "oh fuck, I never thought of Rice/ Vandy/ Northwestern as a great school..."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45560

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, slorch said:

Does one really need a ranking to know the value of a given school?

The schools playing hard to get is bullshit, of course, so fuck them too; but damn, it's not as if someone bought USN&WR and it dawned on them, "oh fuck, I never thought of Rice/ Vandy/ Northwestern as a great school..."

Actually, it would be great to have information about which schools are meeting future employers' expectations, which schools are feeding top grad schools, which schools have students who feel like they are getting their money's worth.  Not every kid is bound for the obvious choices -- Stanford, Northwestern, Cal Berkeley.  It would be great to know if (for instance) University of Illinois offers 95% of the education for 60% of the cost and 30% of the hassle to get admitted.

USN&WR has all kinds of screwed up metrics.

Hey to Joel Goodman.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17449

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hefeweizen said:

The east way is to not provide them data.  It’s a real double edged sword.  The rankings are important for not top 10 privates because it’s how they get better students to apply (and pay).

Northeastern, Tulane, Vandy, U Chicago, Williams are the types of schools I am talking about.  You could even throw Rice in there as they are right around top 10.

Stanford, MIT, and the ivies don’t need any fucking rankings.  They can pick who they want and still have leftover 4.0 valedictorians.

I don't think University of Chicago belongs in your first list (it has been regarded as a very tip top law school forever). In fact, I think the rankings are frankly more important for the mid and lower ranked schools than the well known national and regional brands. Texas is going to be Texas regardless of where it ranks in US News. Baylor, SMU, hell, Tech, and others are much more dependent upon a boost in ranking resulting in a boost in enrollment. 

Edited by Dahobbs
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25898

Posted
Posted
Just now, Gil Bang said:
1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

Fuck the R voters in this state. Californians pay less in taxes than Texans, and they have a public ivy to show for their investment.

Start ranking voters by state. 

Edit button not working.  CA doesn't have "a" public ivy, it has at least 3 depending on your yardstick.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5307

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Edit button not working.  CA doesn't have "a" public ivy, it has at least 3 depending on your yardstick.

UCLA/CAL are public 1/2.  UCSD is almost at that level.  UCSD or UCSB are tied for the most badass location for a public university that I’ve visited.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4968

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

I agree US News rankings are shambolic and it would be nice if people stopped paying attention to them, but the reason these schools are pulling out is because they want to quit requiring the LSAT for applicants as part of their strategy to maintain diversity after affirmative action most likely gets taken down by the Supreme Court, and it’s going to hurt their rankings because the average student LSAT is a big part of the rankings.

I think the LSAT is one of the few worthwhile things in the rankings, and law schools not requiring the LSAT or any equivalent standardized test is lunacy.  So, I have mixed feelings.  

For what it’s worth, I think Berkeley is actually still in favor of the LSAT and just wants to stick it to US News, but Harvard and Yale are pretty clear they’re removing standardized testing requirements and that’s why they’re pulling out of the rankings.  They are trying to claim it’s a principled stand against US News, but let’s be real, we all know if it’s because they don’t want to be on the list if they aren’t going to be at the top.

The requirements to get into a school are obviously a big component of how they are traditionally ranked, but they really don't tell you much about how well a school does at preparing a student for life. Do the rankings take into account any sort of differential of how strict their admissions policies are versus how well their students turn out? I mean, I would like to know about any schools as a parent that can take an idiot kid and transform them into a genius professional just from a cost benefit analysis perspective. Not that any of my kids are known to be idiots yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Satchel

Satchel 6908

Posted
  • Author
Posted
8 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

UCLA/CAL are public 1/2.  UCSD is almost at that level.  UCSD or UCSB are tied for the most badass location for a public university that I’ve visited.

UC Davis is ranked 38th among national universities. They do higher Ed well in California. I’d love to see the USN&WR rankings go the way of the hoola hoop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
  • Popular Post
Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5307

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
On 11/23/2022 at 4:35 AM, Hefeweizen said:

UCLA/CAL are public 1/2.  UCSD is almost at that level.  UCSD or UCSB are tied for the most badass location for a public university that I’ve visited.

And necro bump time.  Son is accepted at SD and is going there.  I can’t wait to go visit because I haven’t been to La Jolla in a few years.  Plus looks like my daughter is planning to go there for grad school.  Life is good right now.

  • Hook 'Em 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites
troph

troph 24563

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

And necro bump time.  Son is accepted at SD and is going there.  I can’t wait to go visit because I haven’t been to La Jolla in a few years.  Plus looks like my daughter is planning to go there for grad school.  Life is good right now.

Rhyming Leonardo Dicaprio GIF

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...