Conference Championship Games - Discussion

[Wally Pryor 5,263]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

I'm going to laugh my ass off if the Big 12's short-sighted (and dumb) decision to institute a conference championship game in response to 2014 comes back to bite TCU in the ass this weekend and K-State gets revenge on the Froggies.

No shit. 

[C-Man 27,286]

2 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Ohio State has a better schedule than both even after you factor in the 13th game for each (both of which should be easy wins).

There is an argument to be made for 1-loss Michigan and head-to-head mattering.  There is also an argument to be made that Michigan played no one non-con (OSU played ND), and lost to a pretty bad Purdue.

UGA's schedule isn't any better.  Oregon doesn't make up for how bad their in-conference slate is.  But sure, SEC! SEC!

That's the end of the argument. Michigan whipped Ohio State's ass in Columbus last freakin' week. Period. Over. (Oh, and Michigan beat Penn State more handily than the Buckeyes. But the H2H last week trumps all.)

[Texasrocks 2,149]

7 minutes ago, C-Man said:

That's the end of the argument. Michigan whipped Ohio State's ass in Columbus last freakin' week. Period. Over. (Oh, and Michigan beat Penn State more handily than the Buckeyes. But the H2H last week trumps all.)

This. OSU's only chance is if Michigan in undefeated and TCU or USC lose.

[nnm 36,698]

At a minimum, B12 teams should be in favor of TCU making the CFI because of the payout.  The B12 will receive 6 million if TCU makes the CFI (not sure what the distribution is). 

KSU should lay down the way Wisky did in 2019 to the Cardale Jones (we didn't come here to play school) tOSU team. 

KSU gets Sugar either way, and gets more money if they lose because of TCU's CFI inclusion.  They should take the Clayton Williams approach. 

[statsman 5,486]

Amazing that eight of TCU’s 13 games are in DFW. 

[Vertuzzi 1,401]

22 minutes ago, nnm said:

At a minimum, B12 teams should be in favor of TCU making the CFI because of the payout.  The B12 will receive 6 million if TCU makes the CFI (not sure what the distribution is). 

KSU should lay down the way Wisky did in 2019 to the Cardale Jones (we didn't come here to play school) tOSU team. 

KSU gets Sugar either way, and gets more money if they lose because of TCU's CFI inclusion.  They should take the Clayton Williams approach. 

Fuck all of what you just said. Fuck TCU. And fuck this SEC type of thinking. TCU winning doesn’t benefit Texas at all so why would we root for them to make the playoff? 

[nnm 36,698]

1 minute ago, Vertuzzi said:

Fuck all of what you just said. Fuck TCU. And fuck this SEC type of thinking. TCU winning doesn’t benefit Texas at all so why would we root for them to make the playoff? 

Receiving money doesn't benefit UT?  Explain that please.

[JBJ 3,668]

4 minutes ago, nnm said:

Receiving money doesn't benefit UT?  Explain that please.

CFP payout only increases by the expenses of the game itself.  So it is virtually the same regardless of if TCU is in or not.  It's actually a net loss because it's one less bowl payout.

Edited November 30, 2022 by JBJ

[Vertuzzi 1,401]

4 minutes ago, nnm said:

Receiving money doesn't benefit UT?  Explain that please.

Because I believe TCU would receive the  participation bonus for making the CFP. 

[Bevo&Pevo 5,229]

Please stop the math.  Talk more football.

[nnm 36,698]

1 minute ago, Vertuzzi said:

Because I believe TCU would receive the  participation bonus for making the CFP. 

I don't know the payout formula for the B12, but I'm sure one of the geniuses here does.  I'm sure that you're right that TCU will receive a participation bonus (higher percentage of the payout), but there has to be additional payout to the other B12 teams too.  if TCU doesn't get CFP, it gets Cotton (probable) or Alamo.  Cotton is lower payout than CFI, so it's a net loss to the B12 and its payouts.  Including UT.  If TCU gets dropped to the Alamo (unlikely), then that will be a huge net negative to UT.  

7 minutes ago, JBJ said:

CFP payout only increases by the expenses of the game itself.  So it is virtually the same regardless of if TCU is in or not.  It's actually a net loss because it's one less bowl payout.

I think that only applies to the finals.  Inclusion in the CFI is a 6 million payout, according to https://businessofcollegesports.com/college-football-playoff-payouts.  By that logic, the B12 (including UT and KSU) benefit from TCU winning Saturday and making the CFI.  Whether TCU wins the CFI semifinal is immaterial because at that point (your point), there's no benefit to the conference, only to TCU.  Feel free to let your roach hate flow at that point. 

But from a purely Adam Smith, Economic Man perspective, it makes sense for KSU and UT to want TCU to win Saturday.

[JBJ 3,668]

11 minutes ago, nnm said:

I think that only applies to the finals.  Inclusion in the CFI is a 6 million payout, according

This is correct.  My thinking was the title game.  It's a $2MM bonus for the FF, less ~$1MM for having an extra team in a low bowl.  So it is worth more or less $100k to UT itself ($1M to the conference.)

Edited November 30, 2022 by JBJ

[Juicy 727]

2 hours ago, JBJ said:

Ohio State has a better schedule than both even after you factor in the 13th game for each (both of which should be easy wins).

There is an argument to be made for 1-loss Michigan and head-to-head mattering.  There is also an argument to be made that Michigan played no one non-con (OSU played ND), and lost to a pretty bad Purdue.

UGA's schedule isn't any better.  Oregon doesn't make up for how bad their in-conference slate is.  But sure, SEC! SEC!

There is no argument for this. So because Ohio State beat Notre dame, but got stomped at home by Michigan they should be in over Michigan? That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

ND is not as good as Michigan and Ohio State is better than Notre Dame  but Ohio State who didn't win their division and got stomped at home should get in the playoffs over the team that just beat them by over 3 touchdowns at home? 

MIchigan>Ohio State> ND but because Ohio State beat ND put them in.... 

You can't honestly believe that. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Juicy

[Herpa Derpa 6,132]

Why are we talking about Ohio State in a Conference Championship Game thread?

[HRSchenker 2,275]

I really want to see TCU, USC, Michigan, and Georgia win their conference championship games and move onto the playoff but deep down I really want chaos. Not just for shits and giggles but because I know the Sunday rankings for the playoff will direct more anger towards the "committee" and accelerate changes to the playoff format. 

[Juicy 727]

2 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

I really want to see TCU, USC, Michigan, and Georgia win their conference championship games and move onto the playoff but deep down I really want chaos. Not just for shits and giggles but because I know the Sunday rankings for the playoff will direct more anger towards the "committee" and accelerate changes to the playoff format. 

The changes are already made. That said I hope the top 4 all go out Saturday (and Friday) and leave no doubt. I think the top 3 will, but U$C is going to have their work cut out to beat Utah. 

I want to see new blood in, TCU and USC are more exciting to me than Bama and O$U again. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Juicy

[statsman 5,486]

TCU will be destroyed in the playoffs. 

[nnm 36,698]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

TCU will be destroyed in the playoffs. 

The way that VY UT was destroyed by the GOAT USC team led by Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush?  That was a shoo-in also.

[TexArcher 38,081]

4 hours ago, Juicy said:

12-1 is greater than 11-1. Especially when 11-1 lost by over 3 scores at home. 

Not if 11-1 lost to a playoff team and 12-1 lost to Kansas State.

And people are actually rooting for TCU because "we need a Texas team in the playoff"?

This board has lost its god damned mind.

Fuck TCU, fuck the horseshoe up their ass, and fuck the Big 12 refs giving them a bunch of helpful nudges along the way.  I hope K State pounds their fraudulent asses then they both go on to get skullfucked in their bowl games.  This whole conference can eat some shit and I hope we all have the good sense to give the leftover little brothers the finger on our way out.

Edited November 30, 2022 by TexArcher

[Juicy 727]

12 minutes ago, statsman said:

TCU will be destroyed in the playoffs. 

They should be Michigan's first game so I hope so. 

I am in love with this Bully Ball that Michigan has perfected. It is near impossible for other teams to replicate so they can't keep gap integrity unless you stack 8 in the box, and when you do that..... Well Ohio State saw what happens when you do that. 

I am definitely biased but I have never seen a team make every opponent (except Illinois) absolutely quit in the second half. They all just give up. Its amazing to watch as a Michigan fan. Oh close game at half? No big deal we will outscore them 31-3 in the second half. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Juicy

[JBJ 3,668]

22 minutes ago, Juicy said:

MIchigan>Ohio State> ND but because Ohio State beat ND put them in.... 
You can't honestly believe that. 

So do we put Purdue in?  Head-to-head means something more than any other single game, but I'd rather have the team in that had the better overall season, not base it on a single game.

[statsman 5,486]

11 minutes ago, nnm said:

The way that VY UT was destroyed by the GOAT USC team led by Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush?  That was a shoo-in also.

Do you see anyone on TCU that approaches VY? Or Huff? Or Griffin? Or Robison? Or Charles? Not only do they not have a Dave Thomas, in his place they have a Wiley that was cast off by UT. 
 
In 2005, Texas beat two teams that would soundly thrash this TCU team. TCU is more akin to 2005 Colorado than to 2005 UT. 

[Juicy 727]

Just now, JBJ said:

So do we put Purdue in?  Head-to-head means something more than any other single game, but I'd rather have the team in that had the better overall season, not base it on a single game.

12-1 IS the better overall season. Especially, if the best win is against Ohio State. Vs Ohio State's best win as Penn State, which Michigan also Demolished. 

[TexArcher 38,081]

2 minutes ago, Juicy said:

12-1 IS the better overall season. Especially, if the best win is against Ohio State. Vs Ohio State's best win as Penn State, which Michigan also Demolished. 

It's not, though.

Ohio State would wipe their ass with TCU and everyone who's ever seen a football game knows it.

Michigan would wipe their ass with TCU and everyone who's ever seen a football game knows it.

TCU is a 9-3 team with a horseshoe up its ass.

Edited November 30, 2022 by TexArcher

[Juicy 727]

Just now, TexArcher said:

It's not, though.

Ohio State would wipe their ass with TCU and everyone who's ever seen a football game knows it.

We are talking about Michigan over Ohio State if Michigan loses to Purdue.

[4th&Five 41,606]

 

2 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

It's not, though.

Ohio State would wipe their ass with TCU and everyone who's ever seen a football game knows it.

Meh, nothing that OSU did this year looks impressive to me.  They played a 3 game schedule basically and got killed by UM and really struggled with ND and Pedo. I think TCU would score on them.

[TexArcher 38,081]

3 minutes ago, Juicy said:

We are talking about Michigan over Ohio State if Michigan loses to Purdue.

Yeah, I just caught up.  My bad.

I thought you were doing the "TCU should still be in even if they lose" bit.

If Michigan loses, they should still be in over Ohio St.  They won H2H pretty convincingly.

Edited November 30, 2022 by TexArcher

[statsman 5,486]

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Meh, nothing that OSU did this year looks impressive to me.  They played a 3 game schedule basically and got killed by UM and really struggled with ND and Pedo. I think TCU would score on them.

…and…what did TCU do that looked so impressive?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Juicy said:

12-1 is greater than 11-1. Especially when 11-1 lost by over 3 scores at home. 

I’m not even arguing with this. I’m arguing on the side of reality. A 1-loss OSU team is getting in over a 1-loss TCU team. Scores of the losses have nothing to do with it. The brand of the schools do. The committee will push the narrative of OSU losing to the #2 team and TCU losing to the #10 team. OSU otherwise has had a dominant season, etc.  TCU, right or wrong, has no chance.

And my pointing out that reality is controversial and has angered Pilot’s Error to the tune of 4 negs. 

[4th&Five 41,606]

4 minutes ago, statsman said:

…and…what did TCU do that looked so impressive?

12-0

[statsman 5,486]

2 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

12-0

I guess you’re also a fan of 1984 BYU? I’m more impressed by the Buckeyes’ 11-1, given that they clobbered the pedestrian teams they played. TCU barely escaped TT and OSU at home. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by statsman

[Zeus 6,182]

1 hour ago, Vertuzzi said:

Fuck all of what you just said. Fuck TCU. And fuck this SEC type of thinking. TCU winning doesn’t benefit Texas at all so why would we root for them to make the playoff? 

Bingo

Fuck TCU hope they fuck up

[Zeus 6,182]

27 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Not if 11-1 lost to a playoff team and 12-1 lost to Kansas State.

And people are actually rooting for TCU because "we need a Texas team in the playoff"?

This board has lost its god damned mind.

Fuck TCU, fuck the horseshoe up their ass, and fuck the Big 12 refs giving them a bunch of helpful nudges along the way.  I hope K State pounds their fraudulent asses then they both go on to get skullfucked in their bowl games.  This whole conference can eat some shit and I hope we all have the good sense to give the leftover little brothers the finger on our way out.

 

[4th&Five 41,606]

6 minutes ago, statsman said:

I guess you’re also a fan of 1984 BYU? I’m more impressed by the Buckeyes’ 11-1, given that they clobbered the pedestrian teams they played. TCU barely escaped TT and OSU at home. 

Because CFB in 1984 has anything to do with the current format of the sport. I would have been a fan of them being in a 4 team playoff though. 

[JBJ 3,668]

16 minutes ago, statsman said:

…and…what did TCU do that looked so impressive?

TCU has the #1 SOR, so they've done more than any other team being discussed.

[markstanco 12,636]

33 minutes ago, statsman said:

TCU is more akin to 2005 Colorado than to 2005 UT. 

Not the best example, they were a .500 team

[statsman 5,486]

TCU would be a slight dog to Texas at a neutral site (with neutral refs). They are a good-not-great team. Is it an outrage if they make the playoffs? No. Is it an outrage if they don’t? No. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by statsman

[Al_4_ISU 12,509]

On 11/28/2022 at 11:21 AM, Valmy77 said:

The only compelling matchup is the USC-Utah revenge game. Am I wrong to think this? 

KSU/TCU and LSU/Georgia should be entertaining games.  Honestly, the American game is probably fun too.

[nnm 36,698]

38 minutes ago, statsman said:

I guess you’re also a fan of 1984 BYU? I’m more impressed by the Buckeyes’ 11-1, given that they clobbered the pedestrian teams they played. TCU barely escaped TT and OSU at home. 

They had some good games against some bad opponents (B1G is dog excrement top to bottom outside of UM and tOSU), no doubt.  But they also struggled with Maryland and Northwestern.  TCU also destroyed OUsux and ISU, and the B12 overall is a much more difficult schedule than the dog excrement B1G.  

tOSU, UM, and UGA are better on paper than TCU, no doubt, because of recruiting stars and name brand.  But so is UT.

That's why they play the games.  We'll see.  

[Al_4_ISU 12,509]

1 hour ago, HRSchenker said:

I really want to see TCU, USC, Michigan, and Georgia win their conference championship games and move onto the playoff but deep down I really want chaos. Not just for shits and giggles but because I know the Sunday rankings for the playoff will direct more anger towards the "committee" and accelerate changes to the playoff format. 

The changes are a done deal, happening soon enough, and will mitigate much of the committee's bullshit.  I don't know that we need any more reason to hate them.

That said, with their days of unilateral control waning, I could see them going scorched earth and just shoving brands in there with the worst arguments ever as a "fuck you" to people who prefer results and objectivity.

[Valmy77 13,284]

I would have wanted 1984 BYU in the 1984 playoff. Excluding them for some 1 loss team would have been bullshit.

Instead all they had to do was beat a 6-5 Michigan team. That was the problem, not that they were given a chance to win the NC.

And 2022 TCU shouldn't be compared to them anyway. 1984 BYU didn't beat UT and OU.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Valmy77

[TheBryMan81 2,516]

I guess I'll be the only one watching the mighty Sun Belt on Saturday?

(Wife is a Troy grad. We debated heading up there for the game, as it's only a couple of hours from where we are now, but we've got other things already scheduled for Saturday)

Sun Belt has been sneaky good this year with multiple power 5 wins from the middle of the pack teams. Coastal Carolina back in the championship game after another year season, but got thrashed by James Madison last week (ineligible for the championship game as this is their first season since moving up. Don't understand that rule.) And will Grayson McKall play? Head coach on the radio said unless he progresses very quickly, likely will be unable to go.

Troy has been sneaky good and, imo, very underrated. 10-2 season with losses to Ole Miss and at App State on a hail mary. If not for the hail mary, they'd be undefeated in conference and they are riding a 9 game winning streak. Defense has been phenomenal (SP+ ranked 8th I believe). 5'8" Mike backer who was a former walk on now tops the NCAA career tackles list. First year head coach was an assistant at Kentucky last year. Offense, on the other hand, is complete dog shit at times (minus an outstanding sophomore RB, who went for over 200 last game and eclipsed 1000 for the season). If Grayson doesn't play, this defense is certainly good enough to win a 10-7 or 17-10 type game 

[C-Man 27,286]

1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

Not if 11-1 lost to a playoff team and 12-1 lost to Kansas State.

And people are actually rooting for TCU because "we need a Texas team in the playoff"?

This board has lost its god damned mind.

Fuck TCU, fuck the horseshoe up their ass, and fuck the Big 12 refs giving them a bunch of helpful nudges along the way.  I hope K State pounds their fraudulent asses then they both go on to get skullfucked in their bowl games.  This whole conference can eat some shit and I hope we all have the good sense to give the leftover little brothers the finger on our way out.

 

39 minutes ago, statsman said:

I guess you’re also a fan of 1984 BYU? I’m more impressed by the Buckeyes’ 11-1, given that they clobbered the pedestrian teams they played. TCU barely escaped TT and OSU at home. 

However it was that the Frogs did it, they went 12-0 against the deepest conference in college football this year. TCU is not remotely comparable to '84 BYU, who played one ranked team all season -- #3 Pitt in the season opener. BYU won that game 20-14 and Pitt finished ... (checks notes)  3-7-1. BYU beat Wyoming by a field goal, Hawai'i and Air Force by five then faced 6-5 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl. BYU won 24-17.

[Valmy77 13,284]

3 minutes ago, C-Man said:

However it was that the Frogs did it, they went 12-0 against the deepest conference in college football this year. TCU is not remotely comparable to '84 BYU, who played one ranked team all season -- #3 Pitt in the season opener. BYU won that game 20-14 and Pitt finished ... (checks notes)  3-7-1. BYU beat Wyoming by a field goal, Hawai'i and Air Force by five then faced 6-5 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl. BYU won 24-17.

The comp I think of is 2002 Ohio State. They ran through the Big 10 in a very unimpressive fashion and everybody expected Miami to beat them down easily. 

[C-Man 27,286]

9 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I would have wanted 1984 BYU in the 1984 playoff. Excluding them for some 1 loss team would have been bullshit.

Instead all they had to do was beat a 6-5 Michigan team. That was the problem, not that they were given a chance to win the NC.

And 2022 TCU shouldn't be compared to them anyway. 1984 BYU didn't beat UT and OU.

A four-team playoff would've been great in 1984. That season was a mess. And in all fairness to BYU, there were multiple teams who declined invitations to play BYU in the Holiday Bowl, including Washington, who drubbed OU in the Orange Bowl and finished 11-1 and #2. (Washington didn't even win the Pac 10 that season as the Huskies' lone loss was to USC, who won the conference title and went to the Rose Bowl because of that H2H win. In retrospect, Washington should've accepted the Holiday invitation because if they'd beaten BYU they would've been national champions.)

[statsman 5,486]

20 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

The comp I think of is 2002 Ohio State. They ran through the Big 10 in a very unimpressive fashion and everybody expected Miami to beat them down easily. 

What? The 2002 Buckeyes were loaded with NFL talent, except at QB. They are in no way comparable to TCU. 

[Valmy77 13,284]

2 minutes ago, statsman said:

What? The 2002 Buckeyes were loaded with NFL talent, except at QB. They are in no way comparable to TCU. 

Their season was comparable. Besides we don't know who is loaded with NFL talent until the players end up in the NFL a few years later.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Valmy77

[Valmy77 13,284]

21 minutes ago, C-Man said:

A four-team playoff would've been great in 1984. That season was a mess. And in all fairness to BYU, there were multiple teams who declined invitations to play BYU in the Holiday Bowl, including Washington, who drubbed OU in the Orange Bowl and finished 11-1 and #2. (Washington didn't even win the Pac 10 that season as the Huskies' lone loss was to USC, who won the conference title and went to the Rose Bowl because of that H2H win. In retrospect, Washington should've accepted the Holiday invitation because if they'd beaten BYU they would've been national champions.)

In fairness to Washington they were probably given that invite in mid-November or something stupid when they still had hope for the Rose Bowl, this being the most idiotic days of the old Bowl system.

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1,292]

I think the winners end up being Georgia, Michigan, Utah, and Kansas State. The playoff seeding ends up:

1. Georgia

2. Michigan

3. Ohio State

4. Alabama

[Zeus 6,182]

30 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

I think the winners end up being Georgia, Michigan, Utah, and Kansas State. The playoff seeding ends up:

1. Georgia

2. Michigan

3. Ohio State

4. Alabama

As much as I hate Alabama and Ohio St, I also hate the fuck out of TCU and USC, so I'm down for this. 

Make everyone SEETHE by just having it be a Big 10 Championshit and SEC Championshit in the playoff first round, then North vs. South Final.