USMNT 2023

[eljinca 279]

2 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

MLS is great for identifying talent and getting it started down the path of development.

But the MLS is not going to get talent to the level that is going to be competitive at the international level. Canada is another great example of this too.

Agreed, Canada benefits tremendously as well.

[Bateshorn 9927]

2 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Oh, c'mon.

What's wrong with rolling out an entirely new formation--one the players haven't even deployed in a friendly--in an away World Cup qualifier, only to find yourself down 1-0 at the half before switching ack to what the players are familiar with on your way to winning 4-1?

In Gergg's eye, he's brilliant because he recognized his mistake and made the change. But a smart--or at least halfway decent manager--would not resort to a fuckup of that magnitude in the first place.

My son and I have started using this for young “brilliant” American football coaches that decide to do stupid things just because they are contrarian (4th and inches? We don’t sneak, we try a deep pass with no play action!):

We are too smart to do smart things. 
 

I don’t think Gregg is all that smart, and definitely not as smart as he thinks he is. But he doesn’t know that. And that’s a problem. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Bateshorn

[eljinca 279]

Look, as this is now a recap of the 2022 USMNT thread, this team achieved what anyone could reasonably expect -getting out of the group - and, if this core group continues to improve and grow, should be a springboard for making a deeper run in 26 as the hosts.

We do still now have the depth, talent or experience to compete with the soccer blue bloods (of which the Dutch are a part).

If we continue and  can find a center forward and depth and quality in defense, we should expect a quarter final (or further) run at home.

[Juicy 725]

Those squads have had results. That's different. 

The federation is likely to look at the cups won in the last year and qualifying as results. That is what scares me.

This team has actually accomplished a lot. Most of it because they play in concacaf. They just blew it in the World Cup.

I definitely want Gregg gone but the usmnt has had a hell of an 18 months that ended today.

Should he be gone, absolutely, but my gut tells me they are going to keep him around. Especially since we don’t need to qualify for 26

[berlinerbaer 670]

5 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

If we're talking about 2026, it starts with a manager that truly understands soccer at an international level. Pellegrino Matarazzo is available. I suggest him because USSF is hellbent on having an American manager. Matarazzo has lived in Germany since 2000 and was most recently managing Stuttgart. I believe he is 45, so maybe he could be the manager for at least two World Cup cycles to help build a better infrastructure with continuity.

We need a manager that wants the USMNT to play more friendly matches. These matches need to be away versus top European and South American sides. USSF wants to make money so to throw them a bone, invite African (e.g., Morocco, Senegal) and Asian teams (e.g., Japan, South Korea) for home friendly matches. Those home friendlies don't all have to be in Kansas City or Columbus, either. Play in cities that aren't USMNT strongholds to mentally toughen up the USMNT players.

The above is extremely crucial because there is no guarantee that the USMNT gets invited to the next Copa America and playing CONCACAF opponents is just not good preparation for the World Cup.

I'm still bummed Klinsmann didn't work out. He checked a lot of your boxes circa 2011.

[Ted Lange 16082]

Pretty drunk.  Will get mad online soon.  

[Captain Ron 12862]

 

Just a reminder of how our system doesn't fit our team.

[eljinca 279]

No, it doesn’t fit our team at all.

[Captain Ron 12862]

 

#2 NAILS IT

Edited December 4, 2022 by Captain Ron

[Rudiger 1160]

3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

My son and I have started using this for young “brilliant” American football coaches that decide to do stupid things just because they are contrarian (4th and inches? We don’t sneak, we try a deep pass with no play action!):

We are too smart to do smart things. 
 

I don’t think Gregg is all that smart, and definitely not as smart as he thinks he is. But he doesn’t know that. And that’s a problem. 

In other words, game theory for idiots. 

[shnsajax 3591]

I'm still bummed Klinsmann didn't work out. He checked a lot of your boxes circa 2011.

Was just thinking I would take Klinnsman again for the next 4 years.

[UDontKnow 10439]

11 minutes ago, shnsajax said:

Was just thinking I would take Klinnsman again for the next 4 years.

If you compare World Cup performances of Klinsmann and Berhalter head-to-head, Klinsmann smokes Berhalter harder than a fat doobie.

In 2014, Klinsmann got the USMNT out of a tougher group and then the USMNT lost to Belgium in the first knockout round after extra time. That 2014 team did not have anywhere close to the same talent level that this 2022 USMNT team possessed. If you look at Berhalter, everything about him in the World Cup was mediocre at best.

But Klinsmann was also at the helm of that 2018 team that failed to qualify. Sure Bruce Arena gets some of the blame as well too. So I respectfully disagree about bringing Klinsmann back as manager. Fresh blood at the manager position would probably be better.

Edited December 4, 2022 by UDontKnow

[Captain Ron 12862]

Klinsmann is not a good coach. He was serviceable at best, but he wasn't good. He had great ideas and frankly, he would be great working at USSF. But as a coach - he was pretty meh.

[kingkoopa6 8344]

Croatias coach would be dope. 

no idea who it is. But they seem to be there at the end 

[Captain Ron 12862]

5 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Klinsmann is not a good coach. He was serviceable at best, but he wasn't good. He had great ideas and frankly, he would be great working at USSF. But as a coach - he was pretty meh.

Oh wanted to add ...

There is a reason he was only Germany's coach for 1 cycle, his pro stops were few, far between and very short and his tenure with the US was cut short.

 

Also 2018 was on Arena a lot more than JK. JK lost 2 games to the best teams that cycle. Arena had more than enough runway to get in the cup and still failed to do so - 8 games and he went 3-3-2. That's on Arena.

[UDontKnow 10439]

In modern times, has the US ever had a foreign manager? Klinsmann was the closest to being a foreign manager - but he's a naturalized citizen as far as I am aware.

Is there anything out there that is suggestive of the USSF being open to hiring a foreign manager (I'm all for it)? If not, the options for American managers is woefully limited and the USSF will waste this generation of talent.

[goatsaag 279]

Klinsmann is the worst coach we’ve had in the last 20 years. We should stop talking about him.

Berhalter is perfectly fine as a coach and I wouldn’t mind giving him a short extension while we do a coaching search, but the national team job should be a 4 year gig. We need new ideas.

Infinitely more important than the coach is having the talent keep developing. The growth of MLS academies has been huge there. We really need a two deep roster on the level of our current top 8-10 players if we want to make a deep run in 2026.

Anyone who thinks this World Cup was a failure is a dumbass. We were in a group with two teams around our level we were slight favorites over and one team better. We advanced and were arguably the best team in each game. Then we played another better team and lost, but if you think we looked like we didn’t belong on the field, I’m not sure what game people were watching. We’re just not good quite enough yet.

[Captain Ron 12862]

If you eliminate Klinsmann because he is now a citizen, the US has not had a foreign manager since Bora way back for the 1994 cycle.

[dieucla98 2942]

Roberto Martinez. Pretty sure he has some free time on his hands these days.

That being said, a national team coach has to be modest and flexible - it's not about them and their system, it's about the best Americans and what system they play and are most comfortable with. And then you, as a coach, have to develop something that suits your players - not the other way around.

Both Klinsmann and GGG had a system and tried to shoe horn our players into it. Both failed similarly. Louis Van Gaal just embarrassed us because he understands this.

Maybe Marsch is the answer, but only because his style fits our current team. I don't think he fits the description above (most club coaches don't, to be fair) so when our strengths change, would he adapt? I don't know. 

 

[WBT 20559]

32 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Oh wanted to add ...

There is a reason he was only Germany's coach for 1 cycle, his pro stops were few, far between and very short and his tenure with the US was cut short.

 

Also 2018 was on Arena a lot more than JK. JK lost 2 games to the best teams that cycle. Arena had more than enough runway to get in the cup and still failed to do so - 8 games and he went 3-3-2. That's on Arena.

I think Klinsmann would have qualified.  I didn't mind the firing but when Arena was named...if that was the alternative we should have stuck with JK.

[WBT 20559]

33 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

In modern times, has the US ever had a foreign manager? Klinsmann was the closest to being a foreign manager - but he's a naturalized citizen as far as I am aware.

Is there anything out there that is suggestive of the USSF being open to hiring a foreign manager (I'm all for it)? If not, the options for American managers is woefully limited and the USSF will waste this generation of talent.

I'm afraid being American is going to be a requirement for the home WC.

[InkaUtexas 25853]

5 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

MLS is great for identifying talent and getting it started down the path of development.

But the MLS is not going to get talent to the level that is going to be competitive at the international level. Canada is another great example of this too.

yeah, agree.. We play a different club game than the EU clubs do. Argentina, Brazil, France, England, etc have a national identity on how the game is played. We don't. Our league is good players at the club, but it does not translate to a national approach. 

We need a national approach. What are the strengths? Two tall dudes in the back field? A mid field that can pass? A front that can attack? 

Why not find a tall dude who can strike? Hmmm..... We are not Mexico. We are not England. We are the US. Mottos be damned, time to build an identity and run with it. Holding back and passing to the keeper does not work at this level. Might vs. the Central Americans, and we lose against them with our current philosophy. We cannot put our faith in one persons leg or want. We have to build our identity. Fucking Australia went as far as we did and they are how many people? FUCK. 

Team played well today. Disjointed, but the boys earned their 300+K. 

 

16 minutes ago, WBT said:

I'm afraid being American is going to be a requirement for the home WC.

call Reyna.   

[shadow_operative 15932]

[Captain Ron 12862]

9 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

yeah, agree.. We play a different club game than the EU clubs do. Argentina, Brazil, France, England...   

If we're talking about the MLS, it has nothing to do with style of play (yet). It's purely speed of the game. Guys like Long, Ferreira and Shaq Moore demonstrated it so clearly in their appearances with this team. When they came in, the game was 1-2 gears faster than they were ready for.

When MLS players get in these games, you can tell they have less time when they receive the ball, they have less space when they have the ball, they have less time to close on players when they need to defend them.

Shaq was making errant passes every touch because the opposing team players were on him much faster than he was ready for. Ferreira has wilted in non-CONCACAF international player because the space he gets in the MLS just isn't there. Etc, etc. Long is the same way.

The MLS will get the skills of players from raw talent to a high level. But until the league improves more, it will not help players hit their real ceiling. Players like Reyna, Pulisic, Aaronson, McKinnie and Adams would absolutely dominate the MLS right now, but their skills would either diminish and/or not continue to grow.

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

11 hours ago, goatsaag said:

Klinsmann is the worst coach we’ve had in the last 20 years. We should stop talking about him.

Berhalter is perfectly fine as a coach and I wouldn’t mind giving him a short extension while we do a coaching search, but the national team job should be a 4 year gig. We need new ideas.

Infinitely more important than the coach is having the talent keep developing. The growth of MLS academies has been huge there. We really need a two deep roster on the level of our current top 8-10 players if we want to make a deep run in 2026.

Anyone who thinks this World Cup was a failure is a dumbass. 

Wasn't a disappointment in terms of results but Gregg's strategy was to turtle in the 2nd halfs against Wales and Iran and then got destroyed by the Netherlands. Would like a coach that's actually trying to make a deep run and not just turtle and hope to make it out of the group.

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

11 hours ago, goatsaag said:

Berhalter is perfectly fine as a coach and I wouldn’t mind giving him a short extension while we do a coaching search

[SimonBolivar 10957]

Marsch will be fired sooner or later, seems like the type of coach the federation would snatch up.

 

 

[UDontKnow 10439]

37 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Marsch will be fired sooner or later, seems like the type of coach the federation would snatch up.

 

 

Hate to be rooting for Marsch to fail at Leeds. Hopefully he would be the manager that is willing to adjust his system of play to make the various talents on the pitch gel together in success. But given that Leeds is flirting with a possible relegation battle in the Premiership, that might not be the case.

Need a manager that understands that it's best to deploy players at the positions they play for their clubs. It's the surefire method to quickly build chemistry.

[Captain Ron 12862]

It is too important for Marsch to succeed at Leeds for the sake of US coaching.  Plus I don’t want him putting his career on hold for the USMNT. 

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

When all else fails, get an Argentine manager not named Tata.

Pipe dream is that Poch is tired of Europe.  Maybe get Gallardo from River Plate.

 

[TexArcher 37761]

14 hours ago, goatsaag said:

Berhalter is perfectly fine as a coach and I wouldn’t mind giving him a short extension while we do a coaching search

 

[Captain Ron 12862]

14 hours ago, goatsaag said:

Berhalter is perfectly fine as a coach…

[kingkoopa6 8344]

if we had haaland I’d be ok with Greg 

Edited December 5, 2022 by kingkoopa6
if

[Captain Ron 12862]

43 minutes ago, kingkoopa6 said:

I’d we had haaland I’d be ok with Greg 

No and 

 

 

[kingkoopa6 8344]

^^ bruh them comments funny. And sad at same time 

[The Dog 44017]

Good thread:

 

[Napoleon 8658]

2 hours ago, The Dog said:

Good thread:

Bryan Reynolds (RB) seems to have fallen off the list.

Also, they have Justin Che listed as “RB/CB” and then call him “tall”…

”WRONG” gif 

Che was only about 5’10” to 5’11”, so they moved him over to RB after he returned to FC Dallas from his loan to some German youth level. And he was NOT a RB. He was a CB who was too short to play CB.

Now he magically grew to 1.85 meters (6’1”) from 18 to 19… (highly doubtful)… which is that height in Europe that says I now the height that should be considered “tall”.

CR7- 1.85

Cavani- 1.85

Mckennie- 1.85 at Juventus (after being ~1.78 at Schalke)

Hopefully we have a good U-20 World Cup next year and a good Olympic squad in 2024 in Paris. 

No 2022 World Cup players should play in the 2023 Gold Cup. It should be a training tournament for our 2024 Olympic team. 

[LonghornSean 3989]

I hope we can get some legit, non Gold Cup, competitive games in the next cycle. As Grant Wahl was saying today, USSF should be begging to enter (or host) the 2024 Copa America.

[Napoleon 8658]

2 hours ago, LonghornSean said:

I hope we can get some legit, non Gold Cup, competitive games in the next cycle. As Grant Wahl was saying today, USSF should be begging to enter (or host) the 2024 Copa America.

We should try to reinstate the Confederations Cup. And if FIFA isn’t on board, then AB InBev, NIKE, Frito-Lay and… ????? need to get together and pony up the money in 2025 to get North America excited for 2026. 

…because I said so.

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

I miss the Confed Cup. It was the only thing giving the Gold Cup any meaning outside of pride.

[Napoleon 8658]

3 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I miss the Confed Cup. It was the only thing giving the Gold Cup any meaning outside of pride.

 

E X A C T L Y !!

 

[joe dirt 285]

i said this on some other thread, but we need to convince some enterprising billionaire to buy a pl team and transfer over the entire usmnt senior team over. they’ll get the consistency they need while my real plan comes to fruition. the real plan is for 20 of us surlites to impregnate 20 women at the same time, then send all 20 male heirs to live in brazil. we’ll bring them all home in time for 2042 WC. this will kickstart a 3 cycle WC run. 

[dieucla98 2942]

1 hour ago, joe dirt said:

i said this on some other thread, but we need to convince some enterprising billionaire to buy a pl team and transfer over the entire usmnt senior team over. they’ll get the consistency they need while my real plan comes to fruition. the real plan is for 20 of us surlites to impregnate 20 women at the same time, then send all 20 male heirs to live in brazil. we’ll bring them all home in time for 2042 WC. this will kickstart a 3 cycle WC run. 

[Napoleon 8658]

2 hours ago, joe dirt said:

i said this on some other thread, but we need to convince some enterprising billionaire to buy a pl team and transfer over the entire usmnt senior team over. they’ll get the consistency they need while my real plan comes to fruition. the real plan is for 20 of us surlites to impregnate 20 women at the same time, then send all 20 male heirs to live in brazil. we’ll bring them all home in time for 2042 WC. this will kickstart a 3 cycle WC run. 

It would be better for 20 to 50 of the most athletic, coordinated, quick twitch guys with swivel samba hips of various sizes go to Brazil, Argentina, Spain, France, the Netherlands, Atlantic & Western Mediterranean Africa, Norway, Denmark, Germany, and Croatia and spread their seeds like an old person throwing out bread crumbs to pigeons in a plaza and then sign birth certificates like Messi & Neymar sign autographs. (The kids don’t need to be born in the USA.)

And then get all of those kids into futsal all over the world and start selecting kids to come to a central training camp at about the age of 15 for occasional camps. 

And this should be done over the next 10 to 25 years. 
 

I volunteer to start, I just need a billionaire’s backing. 💰😎💰

Edited December 6, 2022 by Napoleon

[Captain Ron 12862]

3 hours ago, joe dirt said:

i said this on some other thread, but we need to convince some enterprising billionaire to buy a pl team and transfer over the entire usmnt senior team over. they’ll get the consistency they need while my real plan comes to fruition. the real plan is for 20 of us surlites to impregnate 20 women at the same time, then send all 20 male heirs to live in brazil. we’ll bring them all home in time for 2042 WC. this will kickstart a 3 cycle WC run. 

 

 

[Captain Ron 12862]

BTW, I just gotta ask, have we fired this sack of shit yet?

 

 

[shnsajax 3591]

Bryan Reynolds (RB) seems to have fallen off the list.
Also, they have Justin Che listed as “RB/CB” and then call him “tall”…
”WRONG” gif 
Che was only about 5’10” to 5’11”, so they moved him over to RB after he returned to FC Dallas from his loan to some German youth level. And he was NOT a RB. He was a CB who was too short to play CB.
Now he magically grew to 1.85 meters (6’1”) from 18 to 19… (highly doubtful)… which is that height in Europe that says I now the height that should be considered “tall”.
CR7- 1.85
Cavani- 1.85
Mckennie- 1.85 at Juventus (after being ~1.78 at Schalke)
Hopefully we have a good U-20 World Cup next year and a good Olympic squad in 2024 in Paris. 
No 2022 World Cup players should play in the 2023 Gold Cup. It should be a training tournament for our 2024 Olympic team. 

I still want to see us send Gio to the Olympics along with Pulisic, Aaronson, and Adams.

[goatsaag 279]

10 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

BTW, I just gotta ask, have we fired this sack of shit yet?

Is there a point in firing someone whose contract ends at the end of the World Cup?

[Napoleon 8658]

27 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

BTW, I just gotta ask, have we fired this sack of shit yet?

 

You talkin’ ‘bout Popeye?

 

24 minutes ago, shnsajax said:

I still want to see us send Gio to the Olympics along with Pulisic, Aaronson, and Adams.

You know, teams don’t have to let their players play in the Olympics. 

It is highly doubtful that any of those players will be available to play in the Olympics unless it was agreed upon in advance of the player signing a contract with their current team. 

[TexasMan 10891]

Fuck yeah. Going would be great. Hosting would be sublime.