USMNT 2023

[alincoln 2364]

Gregg makes less than $1.5 million while LVG makes almost $3 million for the Netherlands.  Jesse Marsch makes more than $3.5 million for Leeds while the big club managers make over $10 million.  

 

[alincoln 2364]

3 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Its some Podcaster "suggesting" it, not some stone cold fact.   I'd bet anything if there is a cap, its because USSF is cheap.

No question but it is a very convenience justification for keeping greggg or hiring some MLS coach.  "We can't afford the names everyone wants"

[Juicy 722]

yeah I am all for equality if it makes sense, but if we started paying WNBA players the same as NBA players, there just wouldn't be a WNBA because no one wants to operate an under water league at more of a deficit. 

Ultimately TV deals are what is going to pay for all of this. There isn't much of a market for womens concacaf 9pm tuesday night games. So IMO paying them the same as the men who have multiple networks vying for the deal was a bit short sighted. 

IF and Huge IF, this is true we shot ourselves in the foot by agreeing to equal pay. 

[Ted Lange 15975]

Here is the CBA.  As I figured, there is nothing about having the pay the Mens and Womens coach the same.

 

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2022/05/ussf-womens-and-mens-national-team-unions-agree-to-historic-collective-bargaining-agreements

[WBT 20376]

The women made more from this WC than they ever have in their own WC.  Good on the men for being willing to share I guess.

[Juicy 722]

6 minutes ago, WBT said:

The women made more from this WC than they ever have in their own WC.  Good on the men for being willing to share I guess.

So how does this work? If you were on the last Women's WC team you get a share of this one as well? Or is it who is currently on the team right now? Seems like it could be manipulated if it wasn't WC to WC. 

[Napoleon 8589]

1 minute ago, Juicy said:

So how does this work? If you were on the last Women's WC team you get a share of this one as well? Or is it who is currently on the team right now? Seems like it could be manipulated if it wasn't WC to WC. 

It goes into the USWNT coffers so that they can pay the women X when they play. 
 

50 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Gregg makes less than $1.5 million while LVG makes almost $3 million for the Netherlands.  Jesse Marsch makes more than $3.5 million for Leeds while the big club managers make over $10 million.  

 

I have identified another problem…

…in addition to Christian taking all of the set pieces and Jedi Robinson being given the task to pump in crosses when he can’t cross for shit and we don’t have a target striker. 

[Ted Lange 15975]

9 minutes ago, Juicy said:

So how does this work? If you were on the last Women's WC team you get a share of this one as well? Or is it who is currently on the team right now? Seems like it could be manipulated if it wasn't WC to WC. 

Thats 2 things.   There was a class action lawsuit that was settled.   "In settling the suit, the players will receive a lump sum payment of $22 million. This amount will be distributed in a manner proposed by the USWNT players and approved by the District Court. U.S. Soccer will also pay an additional $2 million into an account to benefit the USWNT players in their post-career goals and charitable efforts related to women's and girls' soccer. Each player will be able to apply for up to $50,000 from this fund."

 

Then there is the new CBA.   If you go to this link https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2022/05/ussf-womens-and-mens-national-team-unions-agree-to-historic-collective-bargaining-agreements then click on the fact sheet, it breaks it down in pretty graphs.

Basically all prize money (going forward) across all competitions is pooled, then equally distributed.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ted Lange

[Ted Lange 15975]

I also found this interesting from the fact sheet, it is how much players get paid per game.

 

 

All players invited into training camp and participating in the camp will receive an Appearance Fee. Players named to the roster for the match will receive the Appearance Fee + Game Bonus.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ted Lange

[Captain Ron 12770]

33 minutes ago, tokamak said:

There's not serious discussion happening about keeping Berhalter, is there? Even before the Gio stuff blew up, I mean. I thought one WC cycle was pretty much the standard in international soccer, unless the team just massively overachieves or the coach is a legend or something.

We looked unimpressive throughout qualifying and warm-up friendlies, squeaked through an average group, and got stomped in the round of 16. That's pretty much the baseline or a small underachievement if you ask me. That same result in 2026 would be downright disappointing. Even setting aside anything with Gio, roster management, subs, tactics, etc - what possible reason would there be for keeping him on?

Addressing this in pieces ...

Quote

There's not serious discussion happening about keeping Berhalter, is there?

Maybe? I mean I would not be shocked to see that USSF said "We made it out of the group stage, let's give him an extension!" @alincoln is right that the information we really have is kind of sparse and appears to be what Gregg's supporters are saying. When you really read the articles out and about, like:
https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states-usa/story/4827699/usmnt-boss-gregg-berhalter-interested-in-european-club-options-amid-new-contract-talk-sources
They all have vague phrases like:
"United States men's national team manager Gregg Berhalter is set to begin discussions on a new contract with the U.S. Soccer Federation, sources have told ESPN."
That doesn't mean anything. It just means that one or both sides might want to talk in the future.

Quote

 

I thought one WC cycle was pretty much the standard in international soccer, unless the team just massively overachieves or the coach is a legend or something.

 

Yes, but some countries are starting to view the role differently.

Going into this WC there are 7 coaches that have been the head coach from before the 2018 WC, with a few teams (EX: Germany) looking to keep their coaches beyond this cycle. The coaches are on cycle to cycle contracts (2 or 4 years), but they appear to want to have continuity. I mean when you look at some of these guys, they weren't yet legendary (Deschamps is a good example, he wouldn't win for a few cycles).

BTW, find the coaches and start of current contract for each team. 

Spoiler

Qatar - Felix Sanchez* (2017)
Brazil - Tite (2016**)
Belgium - Roberto Martinez* (2016**)
France - Didier Deschamps (2012**)
Argentina - Lionel Scaloni (2018)
England - Gareth Southgate (2016**)
Spain - Luis Enrique (2019)
Portugal - Fernando Santos (2014**)
Mexico - Gerardo Martino* (2019)
Netherlands - Louis van Gaal (2021)
Denmark - Kasper Hjulmand (2020)
Germany - Hansi Flick (2021**)
Uruguay - Diego Alonso (2021)
Switzerland - Murat Yakin (2021)
United States - Gregg Berhalter (2018)
Croatia - Zlatko Dalic (2017**)
Senegal - Aliou Cisse (2015**)
Iran - Carlos Queiroz* (2022)
Japan - Hajime Moriyasu (2018)
Morocco - Walid Regragui (2022)
Serbia - Dragan Stojkovic (2021)
Poland - Czeslaw Michewicz (2022)
South Korea - Paulo Bento* (2018)
Tunisia - Jalel Kadri (2022)
Cameroon - Rigobert Song (2022)
Canada - John Herdman* (2018)
Ecuador - Gustavo Alfaro* (2020)
Saudi Arabia - Herve Renard* (2019)
Ghana - Otto Addo (2022)
Wales - Rob Page (2020)
Costa Rica - Luis Fernado Suarez* (2021)
Australia - Graham Arnold (2018)

Key: * - coach from different country ** - coaching more than one cycle past or future

And your last question

Quote

what possible reason would there be for keeping him on?

You aren't wrong that he's underwhelmed. But he is a throwback to the old MLS tied in regime. Read the twitter thread that was posted by Buzzrock:

It gives a good bunch of details as to the how and why he got the job. It also makes clear why he might have been able to retain the job (Before the Gio thing blew up).

[Napoleon 8589]

According to USMNT alums who have had issues with Gregg’s player selection & tactics, and who have never wanted him to return, Gregg earned a lot of respect from the team for not putting up with Gio’s shit.

I wish that Gio had better parents and wasn’t raised to be such a douche. 

[SimonBolivar 10890]

30 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

According to USMNT alums who have had issues with Gregg’s player selection & tactics, and who have never wanted him to return, Gregg earned a lot of respect from the team for not putting up with Gio’s shit.

I wish that Gio had better parents and wasn’t raised to be such a douche. 

Is this uniquely an American thing to try to teach a player a lesson in a WC vs a friendly or Nations League or whatever? Would Argentina keep out a really talented top 2 or 3 on the squad guy to teach him a lesson in a WC and instead play a River Plate guy? I'm genuinely asking as I don't know the answer to that.

[NoName 16265]

49 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

According to USMNT alums who have had issues with Gregg’s player selection & tactics, and who have never wanted him to return, Gregg earned a lot of respect from the team for not putting up with Gio’s shit.

I wish that Gio had better parents and wasn’t raised to be such a douche. 

to be fair, a lot of 20 year olds are douchebags. add in 20 year olds that are that talented and making a ton of money - sprinkle in entitlement and you have Gio. doesn't mean he can't grow out of it - and equally doesn't mean he plays another second for the USMNT in a world cup game.

I like In Soccer We Trust and Davies specifically.

[Napoleon 8589]

39 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Is this uniquely an American thing to try to teach a player a lesson in a WC vs a friendly or Nations League or whatever? Would Argentina keep out a really talented top 2 or 3 on the squad guy to teach him a lesson in a WC and instead play a River Plate guy? I'm genuinely asking as I don't know the answer to that.

Carlos Tevez was dropped from the 2010 qualifiers because he was becoming insufferable due to his jealousy of Messi. He was likely the second most talented player on the team behind Messi. He could play the second striker or the #10, but wouldn’t return the ball on Messi’s Barcelona-esque give-and-go runs to the middle of the box. Tevez would receive the pass and then turn to look for an open player on the other side of the field. 

A manager was fired, Diego Maradona was brought in, Tevez was dropped, Argentina barely qualified for the World Cup, and then Tevez was brought back into the fold. 

Argentina started winning, but after giving up a goal against Germany near the start of the Quarterfinals, they collapsed without veteran leadership on the pitch and a clueless Maradona on the touch line.

Then in 2018 qualifiers and the World Cup, Mauro Icardi was a top European striker and a much better choice than a fat Higuaín, but Icardi had started fucking & then marrying the wife/former wife* of one of Messi’s good friends, so Icardi was never called into a camp that Messi was called into. (Remember, Messi retired from the national team for a bit after the 2016 Copa America Centenario so Icardi got a few sniffs.)

Real soccer countries always have omissions  that are head scratchers due to team dynamic or manager/player personality clashes.

And sometimes the manager keeps out older players so that younger players can grow into leaders.

 

*Wanda Nara Icardi pics

Spoiler

WICKED WANDA 

 

NSFW PICS

http://scandalplanet.com/wanda-nara/

 

[Captain Ron 12770]

41 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Is this uniquely an American thing to try to teach a player a lesson in a WC vs a friendly or Nations League or whatever? Would Argentina keep out a really talented top 2 or 3 on the squad guy to teach him a lesson in a WC and instead play a River Plate guy? I'm genuinely asking as I don't know the answer to that.

Benzema comes to mind. I mean that's something very different. I'm sure I could come up with other examples.

[The Dog 43716]

 

[Captain Ron 12770]

Congrats England, you achieved the bare minimum.

 

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:42 AM, Captain Ron said:

Benzema comes to mind. I mean that's something very different. I'm sure I could come up with other examples.

Benz was the first to come to mind.  Cantona was also left off Euro 96 and subsequently the 98 team.  He ended up being replaced by some rapidly balding young dude whose career was pretty uneventful.

[The Dog 43716]

1 hour ago, Kringelbert Fishtybuns said:

Benz was the first to come to mind.  Cantona was also left off Euro 96 and subsequently the 98 team.  He ended up being replaced by some rapidly balding young dude whose career was pretty uneventful.

 

[Ted Lange 15975]

20 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Congrats England, you achieved the bare minimum.

 

Guess the police were busy arresting the gays when this took place

 

[WBT 20376]

I agree that the Qatari police were too busy to make arrests in Tenerife.

 

[The Dog 43716]

 

[Captain Ron 12770]

Congrats Gergg. Even the Spanish think you suck. 
 

https://amp.marca.com/en/world-cup/2022/12/15/639b79c0ca4741946e8b45fa.html

[shnsajax 3589]

 

Would be a nice move for him!

[Captain Ron 12770]

Forlan running his mouth

I think it goes both ways. 

CONCACAF needs the CONMEBOL teams to bring up tournament quality.

CONMEBOL needs the CONCACAF teams to bring more eyes and money.

 In the end they both need each other to begin to rival UEFA. 

[Napoleon 8589]

23 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Forlan running his mouth

I think it goes both ways. 

CONCACAF needs the CONMEBOL teams to bring up tournament quality.

CONMEBOL needs the CONCACAF teams to bring more eyes and money.

 In the end they both need each other to begin to rival UEFA. 

Max Bretos has been saying the same for a while. (And he’s not “running his mouth.”)

CONCACAF, and especially the USA with Canada #2, need CONMEBOL to improve their game, the game of soccer’s awareness in their countries, and to show kids what is possible.(It’s already the #1 game in Mexico and CONMEBOL has invited Mexico to their Club & National competitions because Mexico is inferior and will always be inferior.)

CONMEBOL nations need Mexico and now the USA because of money. Canada pays a lot-per-household, but there are so few households and soccer is barely on the radar in most that Canada can be taken or left.

But the TV dollars, the corporate sponsors, and the ticket sales from Mexico and now the USA is now vital.

On a much smaller scale, exposure in Mexico and now the MLS has provided opportunities for South Americans, especially Argentines followed by Colombians, to move abroad and earn much more than they were earning back home. And those checks always arrive and cash when they are supposed to.

The one thing that the MLS, and not México or anywhere else in CONCACAF has provided is for smaller individuals from South America to come and show that they can handle the physicality that they could/would encounter in Europe. In distinct cases, showing this in the MLS could be the difference between playing in Europe or not.

Forlán was so good that he never needed the MLS, but did have to show out in Spain before getting a big move to ManU… where he didn’t excel, before returning to Spain.

All that is to say, on a national level, Forlán is 100% correct, but it is slightly more nuanced on an individual level.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Napoleon

[tokamak 6346]

I was just looking the other day and surprised at how many South Americans are playing in Liga MX.

[Captain Ron 12770]

These are just friendlies, but ..

 

 

[NoName 16265]

49 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

These are just friendlies, but ..

 

 

Good thing he was left behind for Jordan fucking Morris and Haji Wright

[Napoleon 8589]

33 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

These are just friendlies, but ..

 

 

I can’t get over how shitty Berhalter is. 

For a guy who played the game in Europe for well over a decade and who considers himself a student of the game, he’s a fucking moron!

I know that Haji Wright somehow scored a once in a lifetime moonshot, but he and Jesús Ferreira offered almost nothing. 

Wright had one play, header near post, in one of the games that actually should have registered an xG. (I don’t care what anyone says, his actual goal shouldn’t have even had a 0.01 xG.)

Jesús played like someone’s kid brother was brought along to even the numbers. 
 

Wright, Ferreira, Morris, Roldan, and an injured Luca de la Torre should not have been on the squad. That is over 20% of the outfield players. 

Personalities may not mesh and moody punks like Gio need to be handled so that they either change their attitude or are off the team, but bringing dead weight when you need help from pretty much every outfield player due to the short turnaround of the games was absolutely insane. 

This World Cup should be seen as a blown opportunity due to managerial incompetence. 

[The Dog 43716]

[ztejas 43193]

On 12/23/2022 at 9:08 AM, NoName said:

Good thing he was left behind for Jordan fucking Morris and Haji Wright

No one in those (utterly meaningless) clips was beating the Netherlands for us. I mean one of the guys you mentioned actually scored in our ro16 match. 

Your argument is, what - that Pepi or Pefok was fucking hat-tricking against the Dutch? 

Some of y’all need to take some deep breaths and let some (or a lot of) shit go. 

Let's worry about what we can do in 2026. Our 2022 pool was never making a serious run at the title. Get over it. 

[ztejas 43193]

On 12/23/2022 at 9:27 AM, Napoleon said:

This World Cup should be seen as a blown opportunity due to managerial incompetence. 

Nope. Managerial incompetence abounds but the pool wasn't ready to do anything but make a fluke quarterfinal run. 

I'm of course not thrilled at the prospect of the same shitty management continuing through the next cycle. 

 

 

I mean - hate to ruin y'all's shit-on-everything party here. 

Edited December 25, 2022 by ztejas

[Napoleon 8589]

4 hours ago, ztejas said:

Nope. Managerial incompetence abounds but the pool wasn't ready to do anything but make a fluke quarterfinal run. 

I'm of course not thrilled at the prospect of the same shitty management continuing through the next cycle. 

 

 

I mean - hate to ruin y'all's shit-on-everything party here. 

I’m the mother-fucking Campeón del Mundo, boludo, you ain’t rainin’ on shit!!

Check out the third star ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ already up above the door at the AFA headquarters right near the Supreme Court building in Buenos Aires. 
C A M - P E -Ó N !!

 

As for my U.S. team, barely making it to the level that the team was expected to reach and then going out like naive freshman who don’t even look like they understand how the game is supposed to be played is a failure. 

The way the U.S. looked against the Netherlands was conformation that Group B was the weakest group in the tournament. 

[The Dog 43716]

 

[goatsaag 279]

19 hours ago, Napoleon said:

The way the U.S. looked against the Netherlands was conformation that Group B was the weakest group in the tournament. 

It blows my mind that people out there really think the US looked bad against the Netherlands.

[The_Great_Hornsby 3319]

5 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

It blows my mind that people out there really think the US looked bad against the Netherlands.

We certainly didnt look in control of that game. We were outclassed and the gap was evident. 

[goatsaag 279]

10 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

We certainly didnt look in control of that game. We were outclassed and the gap was evident. 

The Netherlands were the better team and won the game by finishing their chances but outclassed isn’t the right word to describe what happened.

 

[Napoleon 8589]

1 hour ago, goatsaag said:

The Netherlands were the better team and won the game by finishing their chances but outclassed isn’t the right word to describe what happened.

 

Gregg & the USMNT were naive as fuck. 

Plus, Gregg’s poor substitution pattern and carrying of dead weight left the USMNT exhausted.

See: 2010 World Cup Germany vs Argentina

Horrible manager, ball possession with weak attack, ass raping by people who speak with lots of phlegm flying. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Napoleon

[dieucla98 2923]

1 hour ago, goatsaag said:

It blows my mind that people out there really think the US looked bad against the Netherlands.

We were a complete clown show. Our tactics were exactly what LVG expected and he exploited our tendencies (aggressive wings and fullbacks) and baited us into our weaknesses (crosses to no one) which played into their strength (giant fucking CBs that are world class). All that to put his attacking players in a position succeed (counters up defenseless, over extended wings) against our weakest position (center backs).

Gregg's quote that was basically "we were the better team, they had one chance and scored on their one chance" was so braindead. It's baffling he didn't see how horribly he was being played. That, of course, was confirmed by LVG's post game quote saying the US never made any adjustments. 

LVG made us look like that Gatorade commercial where Trevor Lawrence is playing football with a bunch of middle schoolers. He's just having fun, letting them think they're all on a level playing field. 

Completely outclassed. That game underscored how meaningless percent of possession can be.

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by dieucla98

[Captain Ron 12770]

8 hours ago, goatsaag said:

It blows my mind that people out there really think the US looked bad against the Netherlands.

It blows my mind how many people don’t understand how a team can do what they want and still get dominated in a game.

What was more troubling was that one of them was the coach of the team. 

[WBT 20376]

9 hours ago, The Dog said:

.

Too old.  In a real footballing country, that kid would be out doing Cruyff turns in the snow

[shnsajax 3589]

Tim Ream with a blast for a goal.

[shnsajax 3589]

Looks like Musah has been given a value of $40m for teams looking to buy.

[NoName 16265]

On 12/24/2022 at 10:51 PM, ztejas said:

No one in those (utterly meaningless) clips was beating the Netherlands for us. I mean one of the guys you mentioned actually scored in our ro16 match. 

Your argument is, what - that Pepi or Pefok was fucking hat-tricking against the Dutch? 

Some of y’all need to take some deep breaths and let some (or a lot of) shit go. 

Let's worry about what we can do in 2026. Our 2022 pool was never making a serious run at the title. Get over it. 

Didn't expect a serious run but when it comes to world cups I want to see us being out best team. I want to see coaches use the best strategy at their fingertips and put those players in a position to do well.

I think there is clearly an argument that GGG didn't bring the best team, had subpar strategy and didn't play his best players in their best positions. 

[Mittens 8126]

6 minutes ago, NoName said:

I think there is clearly an argument that GGG didn't bring the best team, had subpar strategy and didn't play his best players in their best positions. 

Not sure there's any argument at all.

[NoName 16265]

Just now, Mittens said:

Not sure there's any argument at all.

I was trying to be nice. Idk how anyone can look at GGG and his performance in the world cup and say "this is THE guy for 2026"

[Captain Ron 12770]

5 minutes ago, NoName said:

I was trying to be nice. Idk how anyone can look at GGG and his performance in the world cup and say "this is THE guy for 2026"

There is zero need to be nice. This is a job and one which he is clearly in over his head on. He had his cycle, we move on. 

[Napoleon 8589]

1 hour ago, shnsajax said:

Tim Ream with a blast for a goal.
 

And Tim Ream almost wasn’t selected for the World Cup. 

Can you imagine if Lionel Scaloni had thought it might be best to move on from his 35 year-old because he’d like Argentina to be a really young team in Qatar?

Ream wasn’t just our best center back, he was the best defender on the entire team!

That would be like Diego Armando Maradona not choosing Javier Zanetti, captain of the reigning Serie A & UEFA Champions League champions Inter Milan because he’s a little long in the tooth even though he would be the albiceleste’s best defender….

Oh, what? You mean he didn’t take Zanetti? And he brought his current squeeze’s best friend’s boyfriend instead?? That would be like bringing Cristian Roldan & Jordan Morris!

…still bitter about 2010 and 2022,

[shnsajax 3589]

Really an entire year of being robbed and wasted chances to be with the team.