USMNT 2023

[Buzzrock 14920]

What’s the difference between Nations League and Gold Cup?

[NoName 16351]

9 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Callaghan is also coaching the Gold Cup. Let’s see what he does there. 

Really?

What's GGG even doing then? Not like he has some job to finish somewhere.

[Braff Zacklin 13573]

I'm sure Gergg has a few blow jobs to USSF members that he needs to finish up.

[CooterBrown 18012]

Balogun is so good at forecasting open space in the box.  When he points to the fucking ground, PLACE THE FUCKING BALL THERE.  He could've had 2-3 more goals if we weren't so hesitant to pass to a striker before the open space has developed. 

[pacman 7355]

 

[ztejas 43445]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

What’s the difference between Nations League and Gold Cup?

Nations "League" features mainly group/league games across different levels with the shitty teams fighting to climb the ladder into the top group. Then there's a semifinal between the top 4 (it will be a quarterfinal next iteration).

The size of League A will be increased from 12 to 16 teams, and will now feature a quarter-final round. The 12 lowest-ranked teams in the CONCACAF Rankings of March 2023 will enter the group stage, now using a Swiss-system tournament format. The teams will be divided into two groups of six teams, with each team playing four matches against group opponents (two at home and two away). The top four teams will advance to the quarter-finals, and will be joined by the four top-ranked teams in the CONCACAF Rankings. The teams advancing from the group stage will be drawn into ties against the top-ranked teams, which will be played on a two-legged home-and-away basis.

League B will remain unchanged, featuring sixteen teams divided into four groups of four. Each team will play six matches in a double round-robin home-and-away format (three at home and three away). Following the format change, League C will be reduced from 13 to nine teams and four to three groups. Teams will be divided into three groups of three teams, with each team playing four matches in a double round-robin home-and-away format (two at home and two away).^[9]

Gold cup is just a standard international tournament like the WC or Euro with group games then a 16 team bracket. 

[WBT 20571]

50 minutes ago, NoName said:

Really?

What's GGG even doing then? Not like he has some job to finish somewhere.

They don't want the heat on Gergg or the fed if he comes in and immediately fails to win the gold cup.

Better to have a year of friendlies no one pays attention to and not get exposed until the copa next summer.

[Captain Ron 12876]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

What’s the difference between Nations League and Gold Cup?

Silver vs Gold trophy?

I kid, I kid.

IMHO, the real difference is that the Nations League is a season long tournament (June 2022 - June 2023) vs a self contained tournament in the Gold Cup (June 24-July 16). Think Champions League vs World Cup (excluding the club vs country thing).

 

1 hour ago, NoName said:

Really?

What's GGG even doing then? Not like he has some job to finish somewhere.

Well Callaghan was always going to coach the Gold Cup. The Nations League final and the Gold Cup start are just 6 days apart (our first game is Friday). So getting Ggerg in would be really difficult (given that camps were already setup etc).

More than that, Ggerg's hiring was totally leaked. They ended up announcing it because it got away from them (and they've been called on this for poorly handling this too). The plan had always been, play the Nations League, play Gold Cup, announce Ggerg after that. But the leak messed up their time table.

[ztejas 43445]

https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/juventus-asking-price-usmnt-weston-mckennie-leeds-loan-interest-galatasaray/blt58bc621256d8b881

Quote

 

THE BIGGER PICTURE: With no permanent deal to be done there, Juve are sounding out other potential suitors as they seek to raise funds during the latest widow. Gazzetta dello Sport claims that the Bianconeri are looking to generate around €30 million (£26m/$33m) from any deal involving McKennie.

AND WHAT'S MORE: It is said that Turkish giants Galatasaray are showing interest in McKennie, with it possible that a deal could be done there that allows another new challenge to be taken on by a man that has just formed part of the USMNT’s triumphant CONCACAF Nations League-winning squad.

 

That's a lot of cash. Makes me wonder what TA will go for - granted Leeds is going to be forced to sell him probably so someone might get a bargain. 

[dieucla98 2942]

Surely, no one is so full of themselves that after watching the last two matches of utter domination they would think "my system that got me pseudo fired in the first place will work better than this." At this level, I know everyone has an ego the size of the moon but even still, this has been damning evidence.

[MissingInAction 25076]

 

 

 

fuck mexico

Edited June 19, 2023 by MissingInAction
Fuck mexico

[NoName 16351]

3 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

Surely, no one is so full of themselves that after watching the last two matches of utter domination they would think "my system that got me pseudo fired in the first place will work better than this." At this level, I know everyone has an ego the size of the moon but even still, this has been damning evidence.

excuse me, but have you me this man?

 

[ztejas 43445]

17 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

Surely, no one is so full of themselves that after watching the last two matches of utter domination they would think "my system that got me pseudo fired in the first place will work better than this." At this level, I know everyone has an ego the size of the moon but even still, this has been damning evidence.

This is my hope. There's no way he can go back to the 4-3-3 after this. With or without Gio. I don't like playing CP out of position but him at the 10 with BA and Weah next to him and Balogun or Pepi up front is better than any 4-3-3 look. Or CP at the 7 and BA at the 10. 

As far as "system" goes there hasn't been some fundamental overhaul to the system. These guys are playing like they always have, they're just being put in better positions to display that talent with an actual 9 that can do everything. The interim has admitted to not changing much - just coaching the 4-2-3-1 and putting the right guys out there.

Sometimes it's that simple. Which is why it's such a headache sometimes with Gerg.

[NoName 16351]

22 minutes ago, ztejas said:

This is my hope. There's no way he can go back to the 4-3-3 after this. With or without Gio. I don't like playing CP out of position but him at the 10 with BA and Weah next to him and Balogun or Pepi up front is better than any 4-3-3 look. Or CP at the 7 and BA at the 10. 

As far as "system" goes there hasn't been some fundamental overhaul to the system. These guys are playing like they always have, they're just being put in better positions to display that talent with an actual 9 that can do everything. The interim has admitted to not changing much - just coaching the 4-2-3-1 and putting the right guys out there.

Sometimes it's that simple. Which is why it's such a headache sometimes with Gerg.

that's like half of being a national coach - put your best players in a position to succeed and maximize their talent. Greg struggled with that over the 60 games starting in 2018. he struggled with that all the way through the World Cup. in my eyes, there is very little to make anyone believe he won't struggle with that when we field our most talented team ever in the 2026 world cup.

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by NoName

[Ted Lange 16085]

18 minutes ago, ztejas said:

This is my hope. There's no way he can go back to the 4-3-3 after this. With or without Gio. I don't like playing CP out of position but him at the 10 with BA and Weah next to him and Balogun or Pepi up front is better than any 4-3-3 look. Or CP at the 7 and BA at the 10. 

As far as "system" goes there hasn't been some fundamental overhaul to the system. These guys are playing like they always have, they're just being put in better positions to display that talent with an actual 9 that can do everything. The interim has admitted to not changing much - just coaching the 4-2-3-1 and putting the right guys out there.

Sometimes it's that simple. Which is why it's such a headache sometimes with Gerg.

We played a 433 last night.  Musah was the 6 in the Adams role and Gio and BA were dual 8s 

[ztejas 43445]

15 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

We played a 433 last night.  Musah was the 6 in the Adams role and Gio and BA were dual 8s 

I missed some of the first half - was just going off the lineup card. You can obviously slip back and forth between a 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 - the point is that you have Reyna on as an AM instead of a winger and instead of a true mid like LDT.

[crash_davis 23113]

1 hour ago, MissingInAction said:

 

 

 

fuck mexico

Best.Fans.EVER.

[Saint Austin 745]

This weekend was fun winning another trophy and all, but is there a possibility of a CONCACAF-CONMEBOL merger sometime??

[Zepol87 9186]

Yea it has happened in the past and was a huge success money wise and with Mexico in the shitter USA getting more bandwagon fans they will do it again. It was a fun tournament 

[Saint Austin 745]

I know we've done the Copa before (and will again next year, too, I think?), but I'd love to see a complete merger and have one confederation for the entire Americas. FWIW, that's what they do in FIBA. Playing the Brazils and Argentinas of the world would be so much more fun and better preparation than us playing spares like Guatemala and Guadeloupe.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Saint Austin
punctuation

[Captain Ron 12876]

I think the strategic partnership that was launched in January is about as close as we are going to get for the short term. Given the way FIFA sets up their power structure, I am not sure that either Confederation would give up full control. CONMEBOL has power because they have some of the strongest teams in the World. CONCACAF has power via their size + automatic bids into  the World Cup.

I don't disagree, a merger or at least alliance could make the confederations stronger, but neither want to do that at the expense of what they have.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

All the well founded tactical and in game management stuff/concerns aside how about the good old fashioned organizational chaos this move creates.

Say the division head of the group you work for gets “let go” and then the company spends months evaluating replacements and then they just run it back. Even if you really liked the person how comfortable you feel being part of that group with that person in charge?

Now mix in all the issues going on within USMNT personnel and all I know is Gergg better have found him some fucking Ted Lasso team building skills in his “time off” or that whole side of things is gonna be a shit show.

[A-Tex Devil 2446]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

I missed some of the first half - was just going off the lineup card. You can obviously slip back and forth between a 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 - the point is that you have Reyna on as an AM instead of a winger and instead of a true mid like LDT.

Someone who knows way more about soccer than me said it was less about moving away from GB’s system and much more about putting people in the right position.  The 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 aren’t that different and technically we were probably something more like 4-2-1-2-1. But it’s all fluid.  The key is having the right people on the wings and in the center.  Pulisic is a legend for us already, but plays best on the left.  Weah needs to start.  Gio should never come off the field when healthy and it’s a close game.  Gregg could never figure it out because he didn’t know how to manage egos.   And setting aside Gio’s tantrum, which is on him and he needs to learn from it, it has become apparent that GB was just plain wrong deciding Gio should come off the bench in November.  So GB outsmarting himself tactically led to a crisis we didn’t need to have.  
 

Going forward, breaking up MMA is going to take some experienced ego management that I am not sure he has the stomach/intuition to handle correctly.  We shall see. 

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

5 hours ago, WBT said:

They don't want the heat on Gergg or the fed if he comes in and immediately fails to win the gold cup.

was hearing this last night - either a rumor or that's what they're selling and it's a crying shame that you can't refute it either way - the idea that ANYONE has better things to do than coach a C-side in the meaningless orocopa

[ztejas 43445]

36 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Someone who knows way more about soccer than me said it was less about moving away from GB’s system and much more about putting people in the right position.

Yes. This is what I've been saying since the Mexico game. And having a borderline world-class talent at the 9. 

36 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Going forward, breaking up MMA is going to take some experienced ego management that I am not sure he has the stomach/intuition to handle correctly.  We shall see. 

Stuff like that is his strong suit. The Gio shit is a one-off that wasn't aided by Reyna or his parent's behavior. 

Also, the ego management is easier when you're actually putting the best XI on the pitch (and in the right positions). You run into issues when you have guys that are clearly better watching inferior players take the field. If Gerg can improve in that arena then the rest will handle itself. 

[Captain Ron 12876]

19 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Gregg could never figure it out because he didn’t know how to manage egos.

Going forward, breaking up MMA is going to take some experienced ego management that I am not sure he has the stomach/intuition to handle correctly.  We shall see. 

Thinking about it over the weekend, I realized that this is one of his biggest failings as a coach. And it really baffles me. He's a soccer coach at the highest level of the sport. EVERYONE is going to have egos, not just Gio but CP, Pepi, Dest, etc. This is really a key skill of his fucking job - dealing with egos!!!! How is he bad at it?

Honestly, breaking up MMA at this point is a no brainer, with Adams dinged up and with what we saw over the weekend, that midfield isn't more important than having this front 4. For the best of the team, you have to put your best players out there.

The only ego that will be bruised breaking that up would be Gregg's.

[dieucla98 2942]

39 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Going forward, breaking up MMA is going to take some experienced ego management that I am not sure he has the stomach/intuition to handle correctly.  We shall see. 

Compared to what we saw this weekend, MMA feels like a triple pivot. Gio as the central, attacking figure in the midfield and a true double pivot behind is the correct balanced approach going forward. As much as I hate to say it, I think Weston should be the odd man out and come off the bench but we need depth all around and Weston is some high quality depth for a pivot position. 

Quick look at depth...

9's - Balogun, Pepi

Wings - CP10, Weah

10's - Gio, Aaronson

Pivots - MMA

FB - Jedi, Scally, Dest

CBs - Robinson, Zimmerman, Richards, CCV

We need some help on the wings and one more FB. Tillman perhaps though he plays more centrally. Not sure who the best candidate would be for FB.

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

2 hours ago, Saint Austin said:

I know we've done the Copa before (and will again next year, too, I think?), but I'd love to see a complete merger and have one confederation for the entire Americas. FWIW, that's what they do in FIBA. Playing the Brazils and Argentinas of the world would be so much more fun and better preparation than us playing spares like Guatemala and Guadeloupe.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Ron said:

I think the strategic partnership that was launched in January is about as close as we are going to get for the short term. Given the way FIFA sets up their power structure, I am not sure that either Confederation would give up full control. CONMEBOL has power because they have some of the strongest teams in the World. CONCACAF has power via their size + automatic bids into  the World Cup.

I don't disagree, a merger or at least alliance could make the confederations stronger, but neither want to do that at the expense of what they have.

 

since the increase from 16 to 24 in '82 conmebol has qualified 4 of their 10 members, and since the increase from 24 to 32 in '98, the've qualified five (HALF) on 3 occaisions

this has always been the primary impediment - paraguay, peru and venezuela would always vote against a merger that would see them competing with guatemala and el salvador for the same spot at world cup

HOWEVER now with the expansion to 48 my thinking is things may change after 26

conmebol is going to have to see how it works out for them - how many more spots do they get standing alone? - who do they draw? - how do they fare?

then they can assess what it might look like for them competitively which will allow them to contemplate the $$$$$ tradeoff of getting in to North America tv markets

where before it was unpossible, the increase to 48 might have an unintended side benefit for us

 

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

16 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

CBs - Robinson, Zimmerman, Richards, CCV

+ TRUSTY

situation is fluid, a year is a long time, our biggest concern is forming solid center parirings that get tested against top opposition that cares which will happen maybe twice over the next year

[NoName 16351]

10 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Thinking about it over the weekend, I realized that this is one of his biggest failings as a coach. And it really baffles me. He's a soccer coach at the highest level of the sport. EVERYONE is going to have egos, not just Gio but CP, Pepi, Dest, etc. This is really a key skill of his fucking job - dealing with egos!!!! How is he bad at it?

Honestly, breaking up MMA at this point is a no brainer, with Adams dinged up and with what we saw over the weekend, that midfield isn't more important than having this front 4. For the best of the team, you have to put your best players out there.

The only ego that will be bruised breaking that up would be Gregg's.

ultimately and in my opinion, a lot of what you need to know with his ego management and style is how he handled Pepi and Steffen not making the world cup team.

Pepi:

Quote

“I feel like it can be a question, but after [Berhalter] told me that I wasn’t in the selection, then I just had to listen to what he said and I didn’t really ask any questions,” Pepi added. “I feel like once he told me, I wanted to flip the page as soon as possible"

Steffen:
 

Quote

 

Berhalter, Steffen's former coach at Columbus Crew, said the decision was "heart-breaking" but also hinted that his desire to have an undisputed No.1 in Arsenal's Matt Turner formed part of his thinking.

"I didn't hear about that until a couple of months later," Steffen says. "I heard someone say it but I thought it was a rumour. He and I have a long history and, yeah, I thought it was a little bit different than it was. That was a tough pill to swallow for sure but if that's the way it is then that's the way it is."

 

the whole "undisputed #1" thing is, to me, yet another an ego management thing. either he thinks Steffen couldn't handle being told the #1 was Turner (problematic considering how much he played him and their shared past together) or he didn't tell him at all. either way, GB thought he would keep the USMNT job/be back/wanted to be back and the odds of Steffen not playing another min with the USMNT ever was tiny, so why the poor management of the player? should have known he was or wasn't coming well before the final call - especially because you had a ton of reasons for him not to be the starter or make the team. if he thought we were in a bad enough position to need to play a backup GK and would need to play Sean Johnson with a world cup game on the line over Steffen that says a lot and maybe Steffen shouldn't ever be called up again.

same for Pepi. he was your guy, like Steffen. Pepi started 9 of the 13 qualifying games, including both games against Mexico. if he wasn't the guy why was he starting SO many hex games? he very clearly thought he was traveling to Qatar.

GGG certainly didn't manage those relationships. even if they were the last 2 cuts before making the team, you shouldn't ever shock dudes with a call like that. poor man management.

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

tri fire cocka, jimmy lozano named interim

The Mexican Football Federation (FMF) on Monday officially dropped Diego Cocca as manager of the senior men's national team after a third-place finish in the Concacaf Nations League. In his place, Jaime "Jimmy" Lozano will step in as interim coach.

Cocca, hired in February and fired from his post with a 3-3-1 record, recently fell below expectations last week after Mexico lost 3-0 to the United States in the Nations League and beat Panama 1-0 in an ensuing third place game.

"In the last week, I have found many deficiencies," FMF commissioner president Juan Carlos Rodriguez said in a video on Monday.

"A game against the United States can be lost, there's always that risk because this is football and the win can go one way or the other. What cannot be accepted was the way in which it happened," he said.

"This phase has been flawed by the disorder in decision-making, by the lack of processes, rigor, and transparency in appointments, and by a perfect storm in the bad habits that we've been dragging for so many years.

"The natural thing to do would be to wait for the end of the Gold Cup, but today we don't have time to waste. So I inform you that I've made the decision to terminate the contract of Diego Martin Cocca and the members of his coaching staff," Rodriguez said.

He later added that Rodrigo Ares de Parga would also be dropped as executive director of national teams.

The firing of Cocca and Ares de Parga add to the list of ongoing changes at the FMF since last year.

In the last 11 months, and related to just the men's side, Mexico has made the following changes: The firing of general sporting director Gerardo Torrado and sporting director of national teams Ignacio Hierro; the hiring and eventual exit of Jaime Ordiales as sporting director for men's national teams; the exit of men's coach Gerardo "Tata" Martino; the hiring and firing of Ares de Parga as the executive director of national teams; the hiring of Duilio Davino as sporting director of men's national teams, the hiring and firing of Cocca as the new men's coach; the exit of former FMF president Yon de Luisa and the election of Rodriguez as the new FMF president.

Through a recent FMF restructuring last week, Rodriguez transitioned to commission president, while Ivar Sisniega was given the role of executive president.

Following Sunday's third-place finish in the Nations League, Cocca seemed to foreshadow his future after stating in a post-game conference that "there's a lot of people who want me to leave."

When asked to specify who exactly, the coach didn't give any details.

Before leading Mexico in his first international job, the 51-year-old Argentine made a name for himself through back-to-back Liga MX championships with Atlas in the 2021 Apertura and 2022 Clausura.

Within Liga MX, he also coached Club Tijuana and Tigres, where he left after just a few months in charge to take the role with Mexico in February.

The former defender previously managed teams in Argentina and Colombia as well.

After being hired by Mexico, Cocca replaced fellow countryman Martino, who walked away from the Mexico role last year after his contract ran out.

He coached El Tri to their disappointing exit in the group stage of the 2022 World Cup.

At the upcoming Gold Cup, Lozano will lead Mexico as interim in group stage matches against Honduras (June 25), Haiti (June 29), and Qatar (July 2).

On Sunday, Mexico revealed that Chivas forward Alexis Vega will be unavailable for the tournament due to a knee injury.

Lozano, 44, led El Tri's Olympic squad to a bronze medal at Tokyo 2020.

In Liga MX, he's had experience as manager of Queretaro and Necaxa.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Hagbard Celine
jimmy not chucky

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

1 minute ago, NoName said:

ultimately and in my opinion, a lot of what you need to know with his ego management and style is how he handled Pepi and Steffen not making the world cup team.

Pepi:

Steffen:
 

the whole "undisputed #1" thing is, to me, yet another an ego management thing. either he thinks Steffen couldn't handle being told the #1 was Turner (problematic considering how much he played him and their shared past together) or he didn't tell him at all. either way, GB thought he would keep the USMNT job/be back/wanted to be back and the odds of Steffen not playing another min with the USMNT ever was tiny, so why the poor management of the player? should have known he was or wasn't coming well before the final call - especially because you had a ton of reasons for him not to be the starter or make the team. if he thought we were in a bad enough position to need to play a backup GK and would need to play Sean Johnson with a world cup game on the line over Steffen that says a lot and maybe Steffen shouldn't ever be called up again.

same for Pepi. he was your guy, like Steffen. Pepi started 9 of the 13 qualifying games, including both games against Mexico. if he wasn't the guy why was he starting SO many hex games? he very clearly thought he was traveling to Qatar.

GGG certainly didn't manage those relationships. even if they were the last 2 cuts before making the team, you shouldn't ever shock dudes with a call like that. poor man management.

he took jordan morris over pepi

he is not fit for purpose

[Trey3216 15346]

26 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

he took jordan morris over pepi

he is not fit for purpose

And played Shaq over Scally, made 80th minute subs, Gio ordeal…that’s just at the WC 

[APMP 688]

At full strength, we now have depth. You might only start 2 of Tyler Adams, Musah, and McKinnie in games you're looking to play free flowing. Or maybe you play all 3 against a offensive juggernaut to choke the supply lines, though it's a tough call who sits amongst your attackers (Pulisic, Reyna, Balogol, Weah).

And I've decided the nickname should be Balogol. Argentina had Batigol, we have Balogol.

[Captain Ron 12876]

5 minutes ago, APMP said:

At full strength, we now have depth. You might only start 2 of Tyler Adams, Musah, and McKinnie in games you're looking to play free flowing. Or maybe you play all 3 against a offensive juggernaut to choke the supply lines, though it's a tough call who sits amongst your attackers (Pulisic, Reyna, Balogol, Weah).

And I've decided the nickname should be Balogol. Argentina had Batigol, we have Balogol.
 

Why?

First, the only player to remove that makes sense is Gio at the 10 because he's the only MF of those 4.

But pairing the MMA midfield with a front of Pulisic-Balogun-Weah bogs down both the MF and the front 3 because you now lose some creativity in your actual attack.

 

But that then goes to the two mistakes that Berhalter made over and over, 1. playing too damn defensive. With that attacking front 4, you give Reyna freedom to get the ball to any of 3 players that are lethal in their role. Sure, you have a MF that can choke out the attack, but at the cost of some really good offense.

Bigger IMHO is #2. thinking Reyna can't bring the same to a MF as whoever he replaces in MMA. Does anyone think he can't play defense if he was tasked with that? Frankly I think you get the same as MMA with Reyna in there PLUS the benefit of more transition to attack.

[The Dog 44051]

 

[ztejas 43445]

I've even heard Man U. Sounds like the bids are going to start at 25. 

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

3 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Why?

First, the only player to remove that makes sense is Gio at the 10 because he's the only MF of those 4.

But pairing the MMA midfield with a front of Pulisic-Balogun-Weah bogs down both the MF and the front 3 because you now lose some creativity in your actual attack.

 

But that then goes to the two mistakes that Berhalter made over and over, 1. playing too damn defensive. With that attacking front 4, you give Reyna freedom to get the ball to any of 3 players that are lethal in their role. Sure, you have a MF that can choke out the attack, but at the cost of some really good offense.

Bigger IMHO is #2. thinking Reyna can't bring the same to a MF as whoever he replaces in MMA. Does anyone think he can't play defense if he was tasked with that? Frankly I think you get the same as MMA with Reyna in there PLUS the benefit of more transition to attack.

MMA and Reyna as the real #10 are not compatible and gergg is going to fuck up the reconciliation

CP needs to recognize this and openly advocate for switching numbers with reyna2 who needs to wear the same # as his dad

that will quell any locker room splitting before it has a chance to fester

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

$9.95

Quote

Diego Cocca has been fired.

We all knew we’d be reading that sentence some time this summer, well before Mexico attempted to qualify for the 2024 Copa América this fall. The surprise is not that it happened. It’s not even when it happened, days after a disastrous 3-0 loss to the United States in the semifinal of the Concacaf Nations League.

It’s how it happened.

Juan Carlos “La Bomba” Rodriguez was expected to remove Cocca, to make his own hire in the most fan-facing role in Mexico soccer, that of Mexico men’s national team manager. But even with that expectation, just how emphatically Rodriguez came out and expressed his decision.
    
    

The new commissioner put his stamp on the program and more with Monday’s announcement.

Rodriguez appeared in a video uploaded to the FMF’s social media channels saying he wanted to speak to the fans. He did so for five minutes, issuing scathing criticisms of Cocca.

There were bullet points:

    The way in which Mexico lost vs. the United States is unacceptable

    I’m ending Diego Martin Cocca’s contract

    Jaime Lozano is taking over as interim manager for the Gold Cup

    Soccer is heritage that belongs to the fans

“The team gave up on winning from the first minute with logistical decisions that caused friction in the group. It wasn’t just the game that was lost, ultimately,” Rodriguez said. “The ability to react and leadership on and off the field also were lost, (as were) emotional control, and the sense of wearing with professionalism a shirt that, at least this time, no one felt represented by.”

Rodriguez referenced media reports that players pondered returning to their clubs instead of competing in the Gold Cup.

“I can’t imagine that in the national team there are elements who have forgotten what’s behind them: People who sold their car or took out a mortgage on their house to be with us in Qatar or people who drive hundreds of kilometers to get to any game, happy to see us no matter what match it is,” he said.

But beyond harping on one game, Rodriguez also criticized those who had gone before him.
    
    

“Soccer is more than a business. It’s heritage that belongs to fans, and we’ve all failed them - not just now but for a long time now,” he said. “We need a new way to form relationships, to all look forward.”

“Today we're all responsible. Owners, executives, coaches, players. We’ve failed the fans. What I want to tell them is that we’ll again represent them as they deserve.”

A real change is needed. Fans will only listen when there are results.

Cocca wasn’t the reason Mexico lost to the U.S., and looking at the on-field performances objectively, there’s no reason to think Lozano will wildly outperform what Cocca would’ve done at the Gold Cup. As I wrote Thursday, it could’ve been Cocca, Lozano or Pep Guardiola in the technical area in Las Vegas and the U.S. would’ve been able to get the victory.
�������� No manager needed: USA's semi win over Mexico reflects current reality
        
🇺🇸🇲🇽 No manager needed: USA's semi win over Mexico reflects current reality
Jon Arnold
·
        
Jun 16
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Rodrigo Ares De Parga, the director of national teams, also is out after four months. Especially in a more structural role, was he to blame for any of Mexico’s on-field issues?

No. The fruit of the Mexico national team isn’t sweet right now, but the problem is at the roots.

The grassroots structure isn’t working, players aren’t being sold at the right time for them or the national team, clubs have too much say. Even the players who are making it to Europe from Liga MX are floundering and coming back (Diego Lainez, Eugenio Pizzuto … wait all these guys just go to Tigres?) or weren’t able to perform their best Thursday (Cesar Montes, Edson Alvarez).

Even in this crisis situation, though, there can be questions about whether this is the right move at the right time. On the same day reports in Brazil say Carlo Ancelotti will take the reins in 2024, what’s Mexico’s long-term vision? While Lozano had success with Mexico’s Olympic team, earning the bronze medal, he struggled at club level. Perhaps he’s just the interim and there are other candidates Rodriguez has in mind.

There’s no doubt Mexico needs transformation to reach its goals. Will Rodriguez be able to engineer those changes?

He showed Monday he’s definitely willing to try, sending a message: He’s in charge now.

 

[ztejas 43445]

[APMP 688]

Why?

Standard false 9/overload stuff, but I'm no tactical guru. I think the more important point is that we are multiple deep at more and more positions, and that'll hopefully go a long way towards a successful 2026. I still have very little trust in Berhalter as a chef, but these are mighty fine ingredients.

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

On 6/16/2023 at 10:30 AM, MissingInAction said:

So is mexico the Philadelphia of Latin america?

mexico are 1000% the aggy of international football

[ztejas 43445]

Stuff like this is a lot more important than who the manager is.

That guy^ is playing for the US. A proper, European shithousing, potential CL-club starting 9 talent is playing for our team. 

I feel like a lot of you haven't really let that sink in yet or realized how good this guy is. Sure, Gerg is frustrating. But for anyone actually paying attention to our player pool right now I'm not sure how you can get so upset about who the manager is without realizing that we are slowly becoming one of the most stacked teams in the world.

It isn't a coincidence that when that guy starts next to Reyna, Pulisic and Weah we all of a sudden look better than we potentially ever have in this team's history.

Please - keep bitching about Gerg. It gets old but that's your right as a fan. 

But for fuck's sake realize why this team just kicked the absolute shit out of the two best teams in the fed. It isn't because Gerg's 3rd lackey is some football genius. It's because we are bludgeoning teams over the head with our talent and athleticism when we put our best XI on the pitch at the right positions. 

I get it. Gerg hasn't always made that happen as a coach. But if y'all could at least believe that it's possible that he changes the formation a bit and keeps getting lineups right then I promise you the talent is going to start taking care of the rest. 

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:34 PM, APMP said:

This feels like a monumental fail.

For me it's a simple as this---I'm convinced our 2026 ceiling with Berhalter is nowhere near as high as our 2026 ceiling with a coach with more international experience and success, and I believe such a coach was available to us.

We will be more talented in 2026 than South Korea was in 2002 when Guus the Legendary Mercenary took them all the way to the semi-finals. But with Berhalter it wouldn't be a complete surprise if we crash out in the group stage or round of 16.

... a coach with more experience and success not from MLS

.... a coach with clear understanding and proof of using that understanding of man-management and tactics at very high club levels in the big 5 and *some* national team experience even if not as the manager

we don't know if such a coach was available to us because the Mystery 10 list has likely been burned and the ashes scattered

and in addition "knowing the american player" was a metric by all accounts, which cuts out 90% of the candidates from europe

++++

in 02 korea team fighting was no more talented than the nats as proven by a hard-fought group draw

hiddink didn't work any miracles

but fifa did on their behalf

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:24 PM, USC_TMB said:

I know I’ll get roasted for this, but having grown up in L.A. and attending numerous soccer games from the 80’s - 2000’s, this behavior is par for the course. I don’t claim to know how it is in other areas, but anytime a Mexican team played it was ummm an experience. We knew to sit up high and not cheer any action. I’ve seen fights, you-name-the-object being hurled, live fireworks tossed into opposing teams sections, and God help you if Americas played Chivas. As bad as it was then, it appears to have gotten way out of hand. Weren’t they on like double-secret probation by FIFA or CONCACAF?

the probation was for the puto chant

they have never been disciplined or cited for any behavior on the field or in the stands and it is the shame of the american sports media that they have ignored for the last 25 years

[APMP 688]

hiddink didn't work any miracles
but fifa did on their behalf

Italy and Spain games certainly had...interesting calls. But that home crowd, that ohhhhh kor--ee--yah chant, it was a movement and Guus knew how to line up Park Ji-Sung, Lee Young Po, Ahn, etc. and get out of the way. Sometimes that's all you need, but Berhalter is not gonna be able to help himself...

[Braff Zacklin 13573]

42 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I feel like a lot of you haven't really let that sink in yet or realized how good this guy is. Sure, Gerg is frustrating. But for anyone actually paying attention to our player pool right now I'm not sure how you can get so upset about who the manager is without realizing that we are slowly becoming one of the most stacked teams in the world.

It isn't a coincidence that when that guy starts next to Reyna, Pulisic and Weah we all of a sudden look better than we potentially ever have in this team's history.

Please - keep bitching about Gerg. It gets old but that's your right as a fan. 

But for fuck's sake realize why this team just kicked the absolute shit out of the two best teams in the fed. It isn't because Gerg's 3rd lackey is some football genius. It's because we are bludgeoning teams over the head with our talent and athleticism when we put our best XI on the pitch at the right positions. 

I get it. Gerg hasn't always made that happen as a coach. But if y'all could at least believe that it's possible that he changes the formation a bit and keeps getting lineups right then I promise you the talent is going to start taking care of the rest. 

Objectively, Gergg was a bad hire. He's proven himself a mediocre coach at the MLS level and utterly outclassed at the international level.

To make matters worse, the search for a supposed replacement was handled poorly from start to finish. It makes one wonder if re-upping Gergg was the USSF's aim all along.

So, yeah, we're unhappy. So what?

Our disappointment over Gergg coming back has NO BEARING on how we feel about the athletes. Has one person here stated or implied that this isn't the deepest and most talented USMNT roster ever? There's so much skill, speed and youth that a positional coach could lead this side to a regional tournament win.

Wait ...

Seriously, though, you're asking the wrong question.

It's not, "Do we think Gergg can grow and do better?"

It should be, "Do you genuinely believe Gergg is the best man for the job? Does he have the chops, the acumen, the humility and the insight to get the most out of this potential Golden Generation, or are there maybe thousands of others who could perform at least as well and hundreds who could do a great deal better?"

[Captain Ron 12876]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I feel like a lot of you haven't really let that sink in yet or realized how good this guy is. Sure, Gerg is frustrating. But for anyone actually paying attention to our player pool right now I'm not sure how you can get so upset about who the manager is without realizing that we are slowly becoming one of the most stacked teams in the world.

It isn't a coincidence that when that guy starts next to Reyna, Pulisic and Weah we all of a sudden look better than we potentially ever have in this team's history.

Please - keep bitching about Gerg. It gets old but that's your right as a fan. 

But for fuck's sake realize why this team just kicked the absolute shit out of the two best teams in the fed. It isn't because Gerg's 3rd lackey is some football genius. It's because we are bludgeoning teams over the head with our talent and athleticism when we put our best XI on the pitch at the right positions. 

I get it. Gerg hasn't always made that happen as a coach. But if y'all could at least believe that it's possible that he changes the formation a bit and keeps getting lineups right then I promise you the talent is going to start taking care of the rest. 

Oh we are stoked for this talent. I mean I watch what these guys have done the last 2 games, it’s magic. To see Reyna unleashed. To see a front line that is right there with some of the top teams in the world. Our midfield and our defense. This is what I’ve dreamed of watching the US play for the last 30+ years.

I mean before this we had bits and pieces. But never a complete team. And we have that now. All the pieces. Is it the best? No. But is it there with some of the best in the world? Yes.

You are absolutely right. We have become one of the stacked teams in the world. It’s awesome.

 

 

 

And it’s also the reason we are upset with who the manager is. 

[ztejas 43445]

44 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Objectively, Gergg was a bad hire. He's proven himself a mediocre coach at the MLS level and utterly outclassed at the international level.

To make matters worse, the search for a supposed replacement was handled poorly from start to finish. It makes one wonder if re-upping Gergg was the USSF's aim all along.

So, yeah, we're unhappy. So what?

Our disappointment over Gergg coming back has NO BEARING on how we feel about the athletes. Has one person here stated or implied that this isn't the deepest and most talented USMNT roster ever? There's so much skill, speed and youth that a positional coach could lead this side to a regional tournament win.

Wait ...

Seriously, though, you're asking the wrong question.

It's not, "Do we think Gergg can grow and do better?"

It should be, "Do you genuinely believe Gergg is the best man for the job? Does he have the chops, the acumen, the humility and the insight to get the most out of this potential Golden Generation, or are there maybe thousands of others who could perform at least as well and hundreds who could do a great deal better?"

 

32 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Oh we are stoked for this talent. I mean I watch what these guys have done the last 2 games, it’s magic. To see Reyna unleashed. To see a front line that is right there with some of the top teams in the world. Our midfield and our defense. This is what I’ve dreamed of watching the US play for the last 30+ years.

I mean before this we had bits and pieces. But never a complete team. And we have that now. All the pieces. Is it the best? No. But is it there with some of the best in the world? Yes.

You are absolutely right. We have become one of the stacked teams in the world. It’s awesome.

 

 

 

And it’s also the reason we are upset with who the manager is. 

If y'all keep complaining about Gerg enough maybe they'll hire someone else. 

Honestly we should have two threads: one where people complain about the manager and one where we actually discuss the national team. 

[ztejas 43445]

I bet I'd be hard pressed to find one comment about how incredible Pulisic was over those two games because everyone has to work hard to get the best jab against Berhalter in.

But what the best player on the team does isn't important as long as y'all have something to say about the manager. 

As long as the manager sucks most of you can just glide along talking shit without actually understanding anything about the game being played. Am I right? 

Edited June 20, 2023 by ztejas