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Formula 1 2023

Anton Chigurh

By Anton Chigurh
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wood

wood 11225

Posted
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15 hours ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Just discovered something funny, but I wish I knew what specific comment over the years was responsible.

 

Screenshot_20221231-214621_Twitter.jpg

Who knows. It's probably nothing you said. Lando Norris started following me on twitter when he was in F3. He continued to do so until about a year or so ago when he hired someone to run his account for him. VY's old account had me blocked for a little while, then unblocked me. I'm not blocked on his new account. I had hardly interacted with either of them, and only in positive ways. I can't imagine you said anything to piss off a nice guy like diffey, either. /csb

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So, we ran a few errands here, outside the Black Forest and got back to the house and I started thinking (usually dangerous) “I think I will look again for tickets for Sunday”, And I’ll be damned. Fuc

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Next special livery for the Williams https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-reveal-special-gulf-livery-chosen-by-f1-fan-vote/10494807/

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Prepuce of Doom

Prepuce of Doom 21053

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, wood said:

Who knows. It's probably nothing you said. Lando Norris started following me on twitter when he was in F3. He continued to do so until about a year or so ago when he hired someone to run his account for him. VY's old account had me blocked for a little while, then unblocked me. I'm not blocked on his new account. I had hardly interacted with either of them, and only in positive ways. I can't imagine you said anything to piss off a nice guy like diffey, either. /csb

I've definitely been critical of him in the past, especially as the focal point/exemplar of broader NBC motorsports incompetence. 

But it's nothing compared to the vitriol I've lobbed at Rick Allen, who is apparently (and unsurprisingly) not clever enough to have blocked me yet. 

Edit - looks like it was likely one of these two tweets involving him spoiling F1 outcomes during either IndyCar or NASCAR coverage. 

Screenshot_20230101_133416.thumb.jpg.3825b0789558b7e0a3a2b3739b058138.jpg

Screenshot_20230101_133513.thumb.jpg.1e7ebbb9c40335fab4cfad02ca45106f.jpg

Fucking dick. 

Edited by Prepuce of Doom
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utee94

utee94 15805

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

The Buckeyes lost in hearbreaking fashion last night so all of my attention is now on the new F1 season.  Ready for Ferrari to break my heart as the Bucks did last night.

No offense intended, but you're not likely to find any football sympathy on a Texas Longhorns message board... ;)

 

 

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elfenix

elfenix 34223

Posted
Posted (edited)

caddy not supplying engines but providing technical support.  but it's a major company that certainly has the budget to support an F1 team if it wants to.  kinda like red bull aston martin honda.

ofc andretti is now in bed with honda against the caddies in GTP, and is intertwined with honda in indycar.  but i don't think andretti caddy honda F1 would work. 

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19020

Posted
Posted
On 1/5/2023 at 12:54 PM, wood said:

Seems like this development could make it much more difficult for F1 to deny them entry, esp from a legal standpoint, but I'm certainly no lawyer (like 99% of the surl apparently is).

There’s no legal right to enforce for them to get into F1. The $200 million buy in is a requirement but doesn’t actually gain them entry. The teams would still have to vote to allow them in. And if they vote no, There’s no legal recourse for Andretti. 

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wood

wood 11225

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

There’s no legal right to enforce for them to get into F1. The $200 million buy in is a requirement but doesn’t actually gain them entry. The teams would still have to vote to allow them in. And if they vote no, There’s no legal recourse for Andretti. 

Pretty sure the teams don't get a vote, and the only approvals needed are from the FIA and FOM (until 2026).  From 2026 onward FOM's approoval is apparently not required. 

It seems like MBS and the FIA are open to Andretti now, and I would think FOM would be salivating over the prospect of adding an American team with the pedigree and following of Andretti Autosport. It seems to me as if the teams are the only ones opposed (and not all of them at that).

The number of teams is set at 13 max by regulation already so the ball is in the FIA's court not the teams'.

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wood

wood 11225

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Posted
1 hour ago, Lidig8r said:

You boys have any thoughts about the F1 movie being filmed this year during the circuit?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10038015-brad-pitt-formula-1-movie-acquired-by-apple-lewis-hamilton-attached-as-producer

Not really, so far, because Pitt has kept it all very close to his chest afaik. Not a whole lot of info out there about it. (Haven't read this article yet. Thanks for the link)

My main thought is that I hope it's better than the typical racing movie is these days, and that he puts into it the effort that it deserves. I think he will. It's crazy that after all these decades, easily the two best racing movies I can think of are Le Mans and Grand Prix.

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utee94

utee94 15805

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Feeling the itch. Anyone have a classic race I should watch on F1TV?

The 1984 Dallas Grand Prix is worth a watch.  I'm not sure I'd call it a "classic" but then again, perhaps it is, in its own special way.

 

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wood

wood 11225

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Feeling the itch. Anyone have a classic race I should watch on F1TV?

2005 San Marino GP. The race that hooked me on F1 once and for all.

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ConferenceRoom

ConferenceRoom 6141

Posted
Posted
On 1/8/2023 at 10:44 AM, wood said:

Read the article. Looks like this one will have Top Gun and Days of Thunder fingerprints all over it. Hope the story is better than Top Gun's, but the photography in the latest is fantastic.

I would have died happy if Tony Scott had made an F1 movie. Ron Howard gave it his best shot but there's just something off about Rush. 

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19020

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Feeling the itch. Anyone have a classic race I should watch on F1TV?

Not sure how long you've been following F1, but Malaysia 2012 is a great race if you haven't seen it. It was a wild race with a lot of names you'll recognize, and it was cool to see the circuit since F1 hasn't raced there in a while. 

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ConferenceRoom

ConferenceRoom 6141

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Not sure how long you've been following F1, but Malaysia 2012 is a great race if you haven't seen it. It was a wild race with a lot of names you'll recognize, and it was cool to see the circuit since F1 hasn't raced there in a while. 

Good call. 2012 is chock full of good races. 

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19020

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/7/2023 at 10:36 PM, wood said:

Pretty sure the teams don't get a vote, and the only approvals needed are from the FIA and FOM (until 2026).  From 2026 onward FOM's approoval is apparently not required. 

It seems like MBS and the FIA are open to Andretti now, and I would think FOM would be salivating over the prospect of adding an American team with the pedigree and following of Andretti Autosport. It seems to me as if the teams are the only ones opposed (and not all of them at that).

The number of teams is set at 13 max by regulation already so the ball is in the FIA's court not the teams'.

I think it's unclear. Technically, the decision to add a team is FIA's, but F1 and reporters have circulated a quote saying F1 and FIA have to agree before a new team can be joined, and I assume "F1" agreeing would be the teams voting, but I guess it could be Liberty/FOM.  The situation seems murky, but it defintiely looks like FIA and F1 are having a power struggle over this. Ben Sulayem is publicly supporting the bid and saying it's up to FIA, while every team but Alpine (because they will be the engine supplier) seems against it. 

I want to see Andretti/Cadillac join, but I also understand why the teams don't want it. It dilutes their TV revenue (and Andretti would steal current F1 fans from all the teams on the grid, but especially the big 3 and McLaren) without proportionately growing the earnings/adding new fans long term. 

Edited by Burt Macklin
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wood

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1 hour ago, ConferenceRoom said:

I would have died happy if Tony Scott had made an F1 movie. Ron Howard gave it his best shot but there's just something off about Rush. 

Yeah I liked the story well enough in Rush, but Ron Howard sure Ron Howarded up the action sequences.

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wood

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4 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think it's unclear. Technically, the decision to add a team is FIA's, but F1 and reporters have circulated a quote saying F1 and FIA have to agree before a new team can be joined, and I assume "F1" agreeing would be the teams voting, but I guess it could be Liberty/FOM.  The situation seems murky, but it defintiely looks like FIA and F1 are having a power struggle over this. Ben Sulayem is publicly supporting the bid and saying it's up to FIA, while every team but Alpine (because they will be the engine supplier) seems against it. 

Yep, that refers to FOM the company, not the teams. The teams don't have a vote, but can lobby FOM & the FIA, and that's what a couple are doing.

From everything I'm reading, Alpine & McLaren are definitely in the "For' column, with Merc & Ferrari firmly in 'Against' column. Nobody else that I know of has taken a firm stand, but there seems to be some favorable talk from RBR, AT, Williams, & AM. 

The teams' idiotic, purely self-interest-based opposition aside, it's truly mind-boggling that FOM & Liberty would actually be opposed to adding an American team with the pedigree of Andretti and the backing of the likes of General Motors, in the market they admit they so desperately want to develop. The rules say the max is 13 teams, and here we are with 10 teams and potentially the best entrant in decades being rebuffed by some teams, given a lukewarm reaction from FOM, while being welcomed by the FIA as an 11th team.
 
Truly bizarro world. 
 
I can see a scenario where the FIA accepts Andretti/Cadillac and FOM tries to deny them. What an absolute dumpster fire and black eye that would be for F1, especially when they have so frequently stated such a strong desire to "crack the US market".
 
Unreal.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19020

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, wood said:

Yep, that refers to FOM the company, not the teams. The teams don't have a vote, but can lobby FOM & the FIA, and that's what a couple are doing.

From everything I'm reading, Alpine & McLaren are definitely in the "For' column, with Merc & Ferrari firmly in 'Against' column. Nobody else that I know of has taken a firm stand, but there seems to be some favorable talk from RBR, AT, Williams, & AM. 

The teams' idiotic, purely self-interest-based opposition aside, it's truly mind-boggling that FOM & Liberty would actually be opposed to adding an American team with the pedigree of Andretti and the backing of the likes of General Motors, in the market they admit they so desperately want to develop. The rules say the max is 13 teams, and here we are with 10 teams and potentially the best entrant in decades being rebuffed by some teams, given a lukewarm reaction from FOM, while being welcomed by the FIA as an 11th team.
 
Truly bizarro world. 
 
I can see a scenario where the FIA accepts Andretti/Cadillac and FOM tries to deny them. What an absolute dumpster fire and black eye that would be for F1, especially when they have so frequently stated such a strong desire to "crack the US market".
 
Unreal.

I’m not sure where you’re getting all these teams supporting Andretti, but I don’t think that’s the case. Most outlets are saying pretty much every team besides Alpine is against it, which would then make sense why FOM is against it if the teams are that united and adamant they don’t want Andretti. If that’s the case, then everyone’s actions make sense.
 

And I don’t see why any team besides Alpine would want Andretti to join. Even if Andretti add some new fans and grow overall revenue, they’ll steal way more fans and sponsors from teams who currently do well in the US market if they succeed. Especially since they now have a US car maker behind them and will likely bring a US driver too. 
 

 

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wood

wood 11225

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1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

I’m not sure where you’re getting all these teams supporting Andretti, but I don’t think that’s the case. Most outlets are saying pretty much every team besides Alpine is against it, which would then make sense why FOM is against it if the teams are that united and adamant they don’t want Andretti. If that’s the case, then everyone’s actions make sense.
 

And I don’t see why any team besides Alpine would want Andretti to join. Even if Andretti add some new fans and grow overall revenue, they’ll steal way more fans and sponsors from teams who currently do well in the US market if they succeed. Especially since they now have a US car maker behind them and will likely bring a US driver too. 
 

 

I'm getting it from longtime very credible posters on Autosport and elsewhere who are quoting people from this team or that team saying positive things. Like I said above, the only teams that seem to be decidedly and openly against are Merc and Ferrari, and the only teams obviously for are Alpine and McLaren, who both signed the letter in Miami supporting the entry. Everyone else, as far as I can tell, is in the middle. I put RBR, AT, Williams, AM, Haas, and Alfa in the middle, because despite 4 of them saying positive things and iirc Vasseur saying negative things when he was at Alfa, there's no real public indication that any of them have dug their heels in one way or the other.

Re: FOM, they have no responsibility to placate the teams who don't want the competition from a new team. Their responsibility is to the shareholders. If placating the insecure teams fulfills their responsibilities to the shareholders, then so be it, but I can hardly see how that can possibly be the best thing for an F1 that needs more teams, more good teams, more variability and competition and has been looking for a real connection to the American sport fan market other than the joke that is Haas.

Re: Why the teams should want Andretti in F1, they should want it because they want to be  the best by competing against anyone who can put together an entry, the way the guys who built the sport did it ... not run from one of the best entry candidate privateers in the recent (or maybe entire) history of the sport. Instead they make excuses like "not credible", "merely a branding exercise" (as if F1 hasn't had plenty of branding exercises and and still has some today), etc, etc. They're just being such disingenuous, gaping pussies. If they'd just  come out and say that they don't want the competition for sponsors, etc, or the competition in general, at least then people could respect them for being truthful even if they don't like what's being said. 

What the teams want shouldn't even factor into the equation. The teams having a say in almost everything and crying endlessly about everything else is the biggest thing wrong with F1. In the end though, at least in this case, the crying teams just might not get their way.

Edited by wood
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NoName

NoName 16351

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, wood said:

Yep, that refers to FOM the company, not the teams. The teams don't have a vote, but can lobby FOM & the FIA, and that's what a couple are doing.

From everything I'm reading, Alpine & McLaren are definitely in the "For' column, with Merc & Ferrari firmly in 'Against' column. Nobody else that I know of has taken a firm stand, but there seems to be some favorable talk from RBR, AT, Williams, & AM. 

The teams' idiotic, purely self-interest-based opposition aside, it's truly mind-boggling that FOM & Liberty would actually be opposed to adding an American team with the pedigree of Andretti and the backing of the likes of General Motors, in the market they admit they so desperately want to develop. The rules say the max is 13 teams, and here we are with 10 teams and potentially the best entrant in decades being rebuffed by some teams, given a lukewarm reaction from FOM, while being welcomed by the FIA as an 11th team.
 
Truly bizarro world. 
 
I can see a scenario where the FIA accepts Andretti/Cadillac and FOM tries to deny them. What an absolute dumpster fire and black eye that would be for F1, especially when they have so frequently stated such a strong desire to "crack the US market".
 
Unreal.

i keep seeing people compare it to being "only $200m" when NHL teams sold for $650m

article or tweet thread showed how that is a bad comparison, especially with the NHL one:

  • expansion draft to get teams up to speed faster - taking at least a player from the other teams in the league
  • TV revenue split/sharing (exists in F1)
  • additional/ongoing have revenue from hosting games

keep in mind the teams agreed to this $200m entry and 26 maximum grid slots way, way, way back in...2021

if teams wanted the number to be higher - which is reasonable - they should have negotiated it to be higher. correct me if I am wrong but the $200m split amongst the 10 existing teams replaced what existed before which was $0 in prize money in Year 1 and eligibility starting in Year 2?

what the teams clearly want to have happen is some multibillionaire to come in, create a team from scratch, get tired of it and have a new Haas/Williams-level team on the grid who isn't going to really compete in the midfield much less the top teams.

meanwhile, they get someone who knows about motorsports, has committed to an American driver (can Herta get enough points to even drive in 2024 at this point?), has committed to an American "home" and has the backing of GM and they are not adding this team with open arms?

total and complete side note, but F1 signing a 3 year deal for US TV rights in October 2022 only to potentially add an "American" team in 2023 is dumb. maybe it was priced in but with how they are handling this i doubt it. looks like the existing Concorde agreement ends in 2025 so that may have been part of the reason?

here is a question but does it have to be a universal vote or just a majority vote to add the new team?

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Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

Not sure how long you've been following F1, but Malaysia 2012 is a great race if you haven't seen it. It was a wild race with a lot of names you'll recognize, and it was cool to see the circuit since F1 hasn't raced there in a while. 

Started watching last night, finished about half of it (thank god I can fast forward through the red flag).

Just want to say thank god for today's production. For all the complaints, it's light years better. The simple fact that the driver order is all listed at once on the left sidebar is a big improvement over scrolling through them at the bottom in groups of five. It's hard for me to follow exactly who is where on the track.

It's also funny to me that the top 10 in this race are all names I've heard of, followed by 14-16 guys I don't recognize (except DR for Toro Rosso).

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Hawndoh

Hawndoh 2386

Posted
Posted

F1 wants American viewers and money, but they don't want American racing teams or drivers.

It's a bad look and just seems like they're afraid of the competition, or they simply look down on American racing too much to consider an American team.

If it was some rich German or British guy, and if it was Jaguar or BMW instead of Cadillac it wouldn't be any problem.

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elfenix

elfenix 34223

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, NoName said:

i keep seeing people compare it to being "only $200m" when NHL teams sold for $650m

article or tweet thread showed how that is a bad comparison, especially with the NHL one:

  • expansion draft to get teams up to speed faster - taking at least a player from the other teams in the league
  • TV revenue split/sharing (exists in F1)
  • additional/ongoing have revenue from hosting games

keep in mind the teams agreed to this $200m entry and 26 maximum grid slots way, way, way back in...2021

if teams wanted the number to be higher - which is reasonable - they should have negotiated it to be higher. correct me if I am wrong but the $200m split amongst the 10 existing teams replaced what existed before which was $0 in prize money in Year 1 and eligibility starting in Year 2?

what the teams clearly want to have happen is some multibillionaire to come in, create a team from scratch, get tired of it and have a new Haas/Williams-level team on the grid who isn't going to really compete in the midfield much less the top teams.

meanwhile, they get someone who knows about motorsports, has committed to an American driver (can Herta get enough points to even drive in 2024 at this point?), has committed to an American "home" and has the backing of GM and they are not adding this team with open arms?

total and complete side note, but F1 signing a 3 year deal for US TV rights in October 2022 only to potentially add an "American" team in 2023 is dumb. maybe it was priced in but with how they are handling this i doubt it. looks like the existing Concorde agreement ends in 2025 so that may have been part of the reason?

here is a question but does it have to be a universal vote or just a majority vote to add the new team?

they wanted the american franchise sports system without really understanding what it is or how it works.  they just see the dallas cowboys being worth $8 billion and toto's eyes light up.  "we're on tv more weekends than they are"

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