Formula 1 2023

[wood 11240]

 

[G650 14273]

As much as I don't like Daddy Stroll I would love to see Aston bring the heat.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

[utee94 15852]

Please let Andretti buy it oh please oh please....

 

[PittsburghTiger 6195]

I find it so amusing that Lance can’t even not wreck while riding a bike.

Put Sebastian in the car for the first few races and then see how Lanny is doing.

[PittsburghTiger 6195]

14 hours ago, wood said:

 

I would love to see Aston make some noise, in a good way. The same for McLaren. I’ve always had a bit of a soft spot for them. My brother even used to do their trademark work in Asia.

Like I have said, a million times, I want more competition. I want Ferrari to do well. I want Mercedes to do well (although I am no fan of British drivers). I think the last British driver I liked was Mansell. It would be wicked cool if Williams didn’t totally suck. It’d be fun if Alpine was good, although that would make driving in France even more hectic because then they would all think back that they are Alain Prost.

I just want more cars up front, racing for spots on the podium.

[Lidig8r 1874]

Fascinating ... at least for me.

This almost 10 minute video goes into the mental health of F1 drivers and specifically ...

Valtteri Bottas, who opens up about his eating disorder from years ago.

 

[wood 11240]

 

[G650 14273]

23 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I think the last British driver I liked was Mansell.

Wait, what? You don't like British drivers but you liked Nigell fucking Mansell? Lol.

[utee94 15852]

And I'm not sure how anyone really dislikes Jenson Button?  He's certainly not my favorite driver of all time or anything, but I'd never consider him to be unlikable.

 

[PittsburghTiger 6195]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

Wait, what? You don't like British drivers but you liked Nigell fucking Mansell? Lol.

 

31 minutes ago, utee94 said:

And I'm not sure how anyone really dislikes Jenson Button?  He's certainly not my favorite driver of all time or anything, but I'd never consider him to be unlikable.

 

Yes, I am a walking contradiction.

I root for German drivers/cars. That is why I so wanted Schumacher to do well. It's why I wanted Porsche/RedBull in there. I will root for Audi.

But I have trouble with Mercedes and their current lineup.

Mansell, I thought, was just like a big fish out of water in F1, and that's sort of why I liked him. I don't dislike Button but, I am not for him. 

In the end though, I will root for Ford. I still have my old Ford Cosworth T-shirt. Hell, my old Goodyear F1 T-shirt still fits.

I reckon I should just say, "hell, I'm old"

[G650 14273]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

And I'm not sure how anyone really dislikes Jenson Button?  He's certainly not my favorite driver of all time or anything, but I'd never consider him to be unlikable.

 

 

For reals.

 

1 hour ago, PittsburghTiger said:

 

Yes, I am a walking contradiction.

I root for German drivers/cars. That is why I so wanted Schumacher to do well. It's why I wanted Porsche/RedBull in there. I will root for Audi.

But I have trouble with Mercedes and their current lineup.

Mansell, I thought, was just like a big fish out of water in F1, and that's sort of why I liked him. I don't dislike Button but, I am not for him. 

In the end though, I will root for Ford. I still have my old Ford Cosworth T-shirt. Hell, my old Goodyear F1 T-shirt still fits.

I reckon I should just say, "hell, I'm old"

 

I mean, I'm with you, Cosworth for life. But Nigell Mansell may be the biggest cock head in F1 history, which is a pretty fucking steep competition.

[ChickenSandwich 9849]

Second source I've seen speculating that testing went too smoothly and should be reduced or removed. Ridiculous 

Could get on board with tiered time limits based on prior season’s results

 

”Which, considering that this was the second time in three years that only three days of winter running were deemed necessary, should perhaps spark a debate over the necessity for pre-season testing.”

 

https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-2023-testing-conclusions/

Edited February 26, 2023 by ChickenSandwich

[wood 11240]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Second source I've seen speculating that testing went too smoothly and should be reduced or removed. Ridiculous 

Could get on board with tiered time limits based on prior season’s results

 

”Which, considering that this was the second time in three years that only three days of winter running were deemed necessary, should perhaps spark a debate over the necessity for pre-season testing.”

 

https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-2023-testing-conclusions/

Three days were only deemed necessary by some of the teams. Some, however, would love to still be out there running today. The top teams love the idea of restricting testing even more, because it would hurt the little fish more than it would hurt them, thus further entrenching their advantage.

[wood 11240]

Rivals pushing to triple Andretti F1 entry fee to $600m https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rivals-pushing-to-triple-andretti-f1-entry-fee-to-600m/10436874/

These fuckin' guys ...

So now that someone's willing to pay the $200M, they don't wanna play by the very rule they demanded. And now apparently AT is possibly for sale again, so maybe Andretti could get back into talks to buy it. Andretti approached them early on in this process, and RB wasn't interested in selling at the time. I've been thinking it's gone very quiet on both sides of this. Could be a good sign for Andretti. 

[wood 11240]

Andretti's Honda ties might make this make a lot of sense. It also gives F1 and the teams an out to backtrack on Andretti and save a little bit of face after all of their ridiculous assholishness.

[utee94 15852]

Andretti-Cadillac-Honda Motorsport, brought to you by Goody's Headache Powder and Wonder Bread.

[PittsburghTiger 6195]

13 hours ago, wood said:

Rivals pushing to triple Andretti F1 entry fee to $600m https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rivals-pushing-to-triple-andretti-f1-entry-fee-to-600m/10436874/

These fuckin' guys ...

So now that someone's willing to pay the $200M, they don't wanna play by the very rule they demanded. And now apparently AT is possibly for sale again, so maybe Andretti could get back into talks to buy it. Andretti approached them early on in this process, and RB wasn't interested in selling at the time. I've been thinking it's gone very quiet on both sides of this. Could be a good sign for Andretti. 

That's fucking bullshit. These fucking guys would cut off their own dicks if it gave them an advantage. Someone needs to tell them to shut up.

[Dutch 4474]

14 hours ago, wood said:

Rivals pushing to triple Andretti F1 entry fee to $600m https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rivals-pushing-to-triple-andretti-f1-entry-fee-to-600m/10436874/

These fuckin' guys ...

So now that someone's willing to pay the $200M, they don't wanna play by the very rule they demanded. And now apparently AT is possibly for sale again, so maybe Andretti could get back into talks to buy it. Andretti approached them early on in this process, and RB wasn't interested in selling at the time. I've been thinking it's gone very quiet on both sides of this. Could be a good sign for Andretti. 

 

14 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

That's fucking bullshit. These fucking guys would cut off their own dicks if it gave them an advantage. Someone needs to tell them to shut up.

Is a case of "let's get as much money as we possibly can," or are they concerned Andretti might have his shit together, field a team capable of running in the midfield, and compete for the allegiance of US fans (unlike Haas)?

[NoName 16369]

Race Week!

comparison to last year's if anyone is interested
 

Spoiler

differences: 1.5psi less at the front and 2 at the back.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/27/andretti-confirm-official-fia-entry-bid/

Andretti confirm official FIA entry bid

Spoiler

Andretti Autosport has officially confirmed it has submitted its Expression of Interest bid documentation to the FIA to enter the running to become a new team on the F1 grid.

In early February, motorsport’s world governing body formally opened the process to attract new teams.

That was based on what FIA President Mohammed Ben Sulayem described as “the growth and appeal” of Formula 1 being “at unprecedented levels”.

Michael Andretti had previously long made clear his desire to join F1, going so far as to join forces with American manufacturing giant GM and its Cadillac brand in order to get his bid over the line.

The formalities, however, are still required, with Andretti ticking the first box.

A GM spokesperson told Speedcafe: “Andretti Cadillac has submitted our Expression of Interest with the FIA.

“We feel strongly that our combined deep racing competencies form a distinctly American team that will heighten enthusiasm for F1 racing, globally.

“We appreciate the FIA’s transparent and fair process in their evaluation of expanding the F1 grid.”

Andretti is expected to be joined by two other entries in Panthera and Hitech.

As reported by Speedcafe, however, there are moves behind the scenes by the 10 current teams to prevent the addition of an 11th team.

F1 anti-dilution fee hike?

At present, the primary route is to increase the current anti-dilution fee from US$200million ($297m) to US$600m ($891m).

The fee is paid by a potential new team to secure a place on the grid, with the proceeds split between the 10 teams to protect it against an initial dilution of revenues.

F1’s soaring popularity, however, has led to discussions between the tri-partite members of the Concorde Agreement – F1, the FIA, and the teams – to amend the document and implement a 200 percent price hike.

Although the current Concorde Agreement does not expire until the end of 2025, Speedcafe understands there is provision within its framework for changes to be made accordingly dependent on certain situations, rather than waiting for the new deal from 2026 to take effect.

The F1 teams are determined to protect their interests and a rise of the anti-dilution fee to at least $600m is viewed as a deterrent, believing few, if any organisations would be willing to pay.

Speedcafe has learned that should Andretti be forced to withdraw from the process should it prove unwilling, or unable, to pay any new fee, then GM would still be open to pursuing its current interest in F1 by joining forces with another team.

Intriguingly, it has recently emerged that AlphaTauri could potentially be for sale and another option for Andretti who failed at the end of 2021 to purchase Sauber.

 

 

[Burt Macklin 19038]

Demanding $600 million as an entry fee is absurd. Audi paid that for Sauber and Sauber has full F1 facilities, including a wind tunnel.  Those assets are worth hundreds of millions. I think this all boils down to the teams not wanting a true American team like Andretti because it will drastically cut into their sponsorships and fans.  They were more than happy to let Porsche or Audi join.  

[BigDHornfan 6549]

2 hours ago, utee94 said:

Andretti-Cadillac-Honda Motorsport, brought to you by Goody's Headache Powder and Wonder Bread.

and Big Red gum. 

[Guest]

Just now, BigDHornfan said:

and Big Red gum. 

If you don't chew Big Red, then fuck you!

[Guest]

About halfway through DTS. It's... ok?

There seems to be a lot about HAAS and Guenther. I like Guenther, but I don't need so much of him or HAAS. They are a low-ranking team that I just don't have a lot of interest in. The stuff with Ferrari/Mattia has been great.

By far the highlight so far was the team principal's meeting with Toto complaining about porpoising and Horner yelling at him to change his fucking car.

[wood 11240]

1 hour ago, Dutch said:

 

Is a case of "let's get as much money as we possibly can," or are they concerned Andretti might have his shit together, field a team capable of running in the midfield, and compete for the allegiance of US fans (unlike Haas)?

Both, imho. They said they wanted the $200M entry rule to compensate the teams for a diluted prize money payout structure caused by the addition of another team - and this was a specific response to the pandemic. Now when someone is willing to pay, they say that that fee isn't enough to compensate them properly, which is complete fucking nonsense. They know Haas is no threat and is just happy to be there, and they also know that Andretti is a serious, well-funded racing organization run by serious people. Andretti wouldn't even nhave to be in the top 3 to upset the apple cart re: the political structure in F1, and imho that's what they fear the most. In other words,they're pussies, and the Competition - which used to be welcomed with open arms in F1 - has been thrown under the F1 bus.

[wood 11240]

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

Demanding $600 million as an entry fee is absurd. Audi paid that for Sauber and Sauber has full F1 facilities, including a wind tunnel.  Those assets are worth hundreds of millions. I think this all boils down to the teams not wanting a true American team like Andretti because it will drastically cut into their sponsorships and fans.  They were more than happy to let Porsche or Audi join.  

This is another component of it, imho ... with the US market opening up for F1, imho they (like Burt says) see Andretti as a threat to gobble up all of those new American sponsors. Again, money over Competition. It's all about their bottom lines now. And re: that last bit, they were also happy to let a shit team like Haas join, too, because they're no threat and because they needed them. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by wood

[wood 11240]

46 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

By far the highlight so far was the team principal's meeting with Toto complaining about porpoising and Horner yelling at him to change his fucking car.

Este. And that's exactly what he should tell him. I thought The Torger was gonna cry.

[G650 14273]

I will say now that Merc has show a chink in the armor I will cackle if Andretti gets in and starts running with them in a couple years. Hope Aston can make some noise this year.

[TonyTexas 10524]

Toto and Christian could be cast in a remake of The Great Escape. Wolff, of course, in the role of the Nazi commandant and Horner playing the British scrounger, Ives. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by TonyTexas

[wood 11240]

This is interesting imho ...

 

[Burt Macklin 19038]

26 minutes ago, wood said:

This is interesting imho ...

 

Dan Fallows is the technical director for AM. He was Newey’s right hand man before that, so I would assume he knows some wizardry with the floor and/or suspension from Newey that he’s brought to Aston. Newey worked on ground effect cars in the 80s for Williams, so not only is he one of the best technical people ever in F1, but he also has more experience than just about anyone currently in F1 with these types of cars. So the AM gains could be fairly real if they and RB have figured something out that no one else on the grid has. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Burt Macklin

[wood 11240]

1 minute ago, Burt Macklin said:

Dan Fallows is the technical director for AM. He was Newey’s right hand man before that, so I would assume he knows some wizardry with the floor and/or suspension from Newey that he’s brought to Aston. Newey worked on ground effect cars in the 80s for Williams, so not only is he one of the best technical people ever in F1, but he also has more experience than just about anyone with these types of cars. So the AM gains could be fairly real if they and RB have figured something out that no one else on the grid has. 

Yep. Who knows. Fallows is exactly the reason I so looked forward to see the new AM that Fernando will be driving. Ready for this weekend. Fuck the offseason.

[Burt Macklin 19038]

5 minutes ago, wood said:

Yep. Who knows. Fallows is exactly the reason I so looked forward to see the new AM that Fernando will be driving. Ready for this weekend. Fuck the offseason.

I’m really curious if their ability to ride low is the floor or suspension. Ferrari tried very low rode heights on Day 1 of testing, but it wasn’t working for them and they had to raise it. It seems obvious they were trying to ride as low as RB but can’t and obviously Merc can’t either. Merc supplies almost everything possible to AM, so that might help Merc identify what part of the car is making the difference. 

[Guest]

As a fairly new fan, seeing Alonso in a competitive car seems like it would be a hell of a lot of fun.

[G650 14273]

2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I’m really curious if their ability to ride low is the floor or suspension. Ferrari tried very low rode heights on Day 1 of testing, but it wasn’t working for them and they had to raise it. It seems obvious they were trying to ride as low as RB but can’t and obviously Merc can’t either. Merc supplies almost everything possible to AM, so that might help Merc identify what part of the car is making the difference. 

 

I think the front parts responsible are actually one thing Merc doesn't supply

[wood 11240]

RacingNews365: Analysis: F1 could risk EU lawsuit with entry fee increase

https://racingnews365.com/analysis-f1-risks-eu-lawsuit-with-entry-fee-increase/?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter&utm_medium=sharing

Quote

 

While the fee is ‘justified’ by its proponents as being a ‘franchise fee’, it is actually anything but: A franchise fee is paid by an entity (franchisee) to the holder of whatever intellectual property (the franchisor) for the right to use said goods or services.

The McDonalds franchise provides a perfect example: a new restaurant (franchisee) pays McDonalds (the franchisor) an agreed fee to buy into its menus, branding, reputation, etc., - with all fees accruing to the franchisor, but not in compensation to existing Big M outlets. Just imagine if ten McD restaurants clubbed together to prevent an 11th (or 12th) franchise joining the fray to prevent loss of business.

Using the same example, certain F1 teams are attempting to hoodwink the media by suggesting that the anti-dilution fee is, in fact, a franchise fee, demanding that new entrants pay THEM (as franchisees) compensation for perceived loss of business – yet, crucially, not a single dime of the $200m goes to F1 commercial rights holder Liberty Media (the de facto franchisor) for IP rights as per the McD example.

Thus, their arguments are arguably anti-competitive by stifling competition through both strengthening existing teams and weakening any newcomer(s). Only a very brave lawyer would defend this before the EU in this regard – particularly as Brussels has form when it comes to dealing with US-based behemoths such as Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple and Google.

 

 

[VABuckeye 2472]

3 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

As a fairly new fan, seeing Alonso in a competitive car seems like it would be a hell of a lot of fun.

It might be an opportunity to see exactly how much of an asshole he really is.  Don't get me wrong I love to see Alonso drive but his reputation precedes him.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

It might be an opportunity to see exactly how much of an asshole he really is.  Don't get me wrong I love to see Alonso drive but his reputation precedes him.

Is he? That was my first impression. Didn't care anything for him for a couple of years. Now he's slowly grown on me for some reason. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

A lot of them have grown on me.  Hamilton is one for sure as I have been impressed by how he's conducted himself when the team has clearly had issues with the car.

[wood 11240]

Alonso catches all kinds of hell for things that pretty much every F1 driver ever is guilty of ... but I do love seeing him embrace the 'Bad Boy' role in that DTS episode. 

On that note, boy, did Otmar ever come out of that looking like a prick and a dipshit.

Two of the best things about watching Alonso, imho:

- Seeing just how much he still enjoys what he's doing, and being so open about it.

- Watching the way he can so comprehensively track & manage a race while racing in it himself. It's really spectacular imho.

Edited February 27, 2023 by wood

[Mittens 8298]

Dumb Question Amnesty, por favor...  What does AMuS or #AMuS mean/stand for?  

 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Mittens said:

Dumb Question Amnesty, por favor...  What does AMuS or #AMuS mean/stand for?  

 

Dumb answer amnesty: Aston Martin under Stroll

[wood 11240]

Ha! But seriously, it's Auto, Motor, und Sport - a well-respected German racing website.

[Goofyboy 3294]

Alonso catches all kinds of hell for things that pretty much every F1 driver ever is guilty of ... but I do love seeing him embrace the 'Bad Boy' role in that DTS episode. 
On that note, boy, did Otmar ever come out of that looking like a prick and a dipshit.
Two of the best things about watching Alonso, imho:
- Seeing just how much he still enjoys what he's doing, and being so open about it.
- Watching the way he can so comprehensively track & manage a race while racing in it himself. It's really spectacular imho.

Seriously? Otmar was pissed Alonso bailed and Oscar screwed them. Did you want him to wish them well?

[Paper_jam 831]

If anything I came out of this season of DtS liking, or at least sympathizing, with Otmar more than before. Of course it's DtS so I'm not saying it's an accurate portrayal of everything going on. I also came out of this season liking Zak Brown less so than before.

Horner seems like someone who is good at their job but I wouldn't want to hang out with.

 

 

[Hawndoh 2386]

Most of the really good F1 drivers and team principals are assholes.

It's a tough sport to be a nice guy in.

[Goofyboy 3294]

Has Horner ever admitted they broke the rules? DTS just had him spouting off every dodge, excuse and “yeah, but” he could manage.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Has Horner ever admitted they broke the rules? DTS just had him spouting off every dodge, excuse and “yeah, but” he could manage.

He kinda had an “oops, lol” thing for a few seconds.

[elfenix 34331]

You know you've watched a lot of F1 when you look at this pic and know exactly where it is

[wood 11240]

8 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

Seriously? Otmar was pissed Alonso bailed and Oscar screwed them. Did you want him to wish them well?

Alonso didn't bail, and Oscar didn't screw Otmar either. Alonso wanted to resign with Alpine and had been trying to get a contract done, and Piastri was more than ready to drive for them as well. Alpine, Otmar, and Rossi dragged their feet all summer on both guys, leaving them in limbo as to what their statuses would be for this year.

You can see Alonso and Otmar talking on DTS, with Alonso trying to pin Otmar down on a signing date after Otmar had pushed it back. Alonso also wanted a 2 year contract, but Alpine was trying to keep him with just a 1-year offer.  So then Stroll, who's been chasing Alonso since before he went to Alpine, made him a 2+1-year offer and probably told him about the new car's wind tunnel numbers, Fallows, Blandin, etc. That reliable Merc PU probably looked pretty good, too, esp after last year's shitshow in the Alpine. He'd have been crazy to say no.

Piastri has been waiting in the wings and didn't want to sit another year behind Alonso. It turned out that Alpine had left Piastri free to roam, essentially a free agent, but they expected him to just sit around, unsigned, out of loyalty, waiting for them to remove the thumbs from their asses. Then McLaren offered up Dan's seat to him. With no confirmed seat at Alpine, he would also have been crazy to say no. These guys have to look out for themselves, too, or they'll be left without a seat when the music stops.

Otmar and Rossi painted themselves into a corner when they extended Ocon way too early, limiting their options. Then they fucked around, trying to string along the two drivers they really should have prioritized ... and they found out, losing them both.

Fuck Otmar. He's also the POS who fucked Perez after he basically saved that team from extinction.

Edited February 28, 2023 by wood