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Formula 1 2023

Anton Chigurh

By Anton Chigurh
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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7730

Posted
Posted
Just now, wood said:

I think so, yeah. They wanna run the race at night to show off the Strip. Understandable, and it would generally look pretty shit in the daytime anyway, but they could accomplish that starting even 3 or 4 hours earlier this time of year. They say F1 needs this race to be a success to crack the US market, but they didn't set those times with the US market in mind. IMHO that's for the casinos to markey Vegas to Europe. If the casinos don't want this race, it does not happen.

Yeah, that's what I figured.  ~6-8pm local time would be a much better time slot, but not for the folks across the pond.

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PittsburghTiger
PittsburghTiger

So, we ran a few errands here, outside the Black Forest and got back to the house and I started thinking (usually dangerous) “I think I will look again for tickets for Sunday”, And I’ll be damned. Fuc

elfenix
elfenix

Next special livery for the Williams https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-reveal-special-gulf-livery-chosen-by-f1-fan-vote/10494807/

Mittens
Mittens

So people can see w/o clicking:  

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6137

Posted
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44 minutes ago, wood said:

Yep & I think the weight of the new cars would hinder them even more than the size. These current cars are pigs in slow corners, which is what that old track overwhelmingly was composed of, and they excel in medium to high-speed corners, which that old track has very little to none of. I think on that track, the old cars just might win. Maybe even easily.

I think even in the early 2000s, maybe to just before 2010 the cars were still weighing in at about 600 kg.

 

https://www.racefans.net/2023/07/28/fia-targets-significant-reduction-in-size-and-weight-of-f1-cars-in-2026/

 

Here is the graph for weights.

 

You were being nice by saying pigs, rather than hippos.

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wood

wood 11186

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, utee94 said:

Current Las Vegas mood:

 

image.png.9b319b744929ed782c8ea21e20c32013.png

 

From loki on the Autosport thread: 
 

Quote

That’s the closure for warm and hot track.  Starts at 5pm ends at 2am Thurs-Sat.  The difference being during warm track (when track is secured but no cars on track) the Flamingo/Koval bridge is open to all.  Hot track they close the bridge to credentialed users and those that can prove they are staying or attending something in that area. 

 

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6137

Posted
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25 minutes ago, wood said:

What ... you don't like Mr. Roboto?

Nope.

21 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Come on, is it fair to judge several decades of work, by the absolute worst song a band ever made?

I'm looking at you, almost every "Wings" song ever recorded.

I always hated them, Foreigner, Journey, and REO Speedwagon

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Mittens

Mittens 8177

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Why are they doing the race so fucking late?  Is it so Europeans can watch during the day?

I think they are doing it because it's Vegas and it goes along w/ the idea of partying in Vegas.  But also, yes - midnight in Vegas is 8am London, 9 am Western Europe.

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pops

pops 6974

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Max and Ham switch cars this season. Same results?

Yes IMO

No. Redbull has a cheat code. Mercedes is still playing ketchup. I'm not saying Lewis is a better driver at this point, but Max's car is so much better than anything else on the track, it isn't close. Even checco is jealous of Max's car. 

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Guest

Posted
Posted

Look at this fucking clown show. The "opening ceremony" of the Las Vegas GP:
 

One reason I love F1 is that it is void of so much of the American sports bullshit. This is the antithesis of that. 

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-felt-like-a-clown-at-glitzy-las-vegas-f1-opening-ceremony/10546914/

"Along with a drone show and musical performances, the event included a section during which the drivers emerged from giant boxes on the pit straight and were introduced to the crowd.

Verstappen, who also opted to miss a later VIP event at the Wynn’s hotel complex that F1 boss Stefano Domenicali asked all the drivers to attend, made it clear that he is not enjoying the Las Vegas experience thus far.

"For me you can all skip these things," the Red Bull driver said when asked about the ceremony. "It's not about the singer, it's just standing up there, you look like a clown."

Asked to what degree the Las Vegas weekend was a show, he said: "99% show, and 1% sporting event." The triple world champion continued: "Not a lot of emotions, to be honest. I just like to always focus on the performance side of things. "I don't like all the things around it, anyway. I know, of course, in some places they are part of it, but let's say it's not in my interest."

 

My one regret is that Kimi can't be part of the race to show how much he hates it.

 

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NoName

NoName 16326

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

It's just as dark this time of year at 8 as it is at 11.

yeah but the timeline is off in Europe for a race at that time.

8p in Vegas is 4a in London and 5a in Paris/Rome/Berlin.

meanwhile 11p in Vegas is 7a in London and 8a in Paris/Rome/Berlin while also being mid afternoon in China.

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1 minute ago, NoName said:

yeah but the timeline is off in Europe for a race at that time.

8p in Vegas is 4a in London and 5a in Paris/Rome/Berlin.

meanwhile 11p in Vegas is 7a in London and 8a in Paris/Rome/Berlin while also being mid afternoon in China.

Then have an F1 race in London, Paris, Rome, Berlin or in the middle of the afternoon in China.

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NoName

NoName 16326

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13 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Then have an F1 race in London, Paris, Rome, Berlin or in the middle of the afternoon in China.

you are preaching to the choir on this front man.

correct me here if i am wrong @wood but the discussion is that the goal is to have a race in vegas on the strip in part to try and market vegas to that european crowd.

they DGAF about making Americans or the Chinese get up early to watch a race but are against it happening in Europe.

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wood

wood 11186

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, pops said:

No. Redbull has a cheat code. Mercedes is still playing ketchup. I'm not saying Lewis is a better driver at this point, but Max's car is so much better than anything else on the track, it isn't close. Even checco is jealous of Max's car. 

Yeah any top driver in Max's car right now is gonna win. Just like Mercedes before them, and Red Bull before them. They just have to beat their teammate.

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wood

wood 11186

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Look at this fucking clown show. The "opening ceremony" of the Las Vegas GP:
One reason I love F1 is that it is was void of so much of the American sports bullshit. This is the antithesis of that.

Fixed. Yeah that was turrible.

There's a hot thread over on Autosport about whether or not there's too much Americanization of F1 going on. I've argued that while I hate the direction it's headed and that I was drawn to F1 because it was very different than what it is now, it hasn't been Americanized so much as commercialized and corporatized. Last night made it harder to argue that, I think. 

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Mittens

Mittens 8177

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Column: F1 learns it overestimated fan demand for Las Vegas, the most expensive race of the year

There is no such thing as a flawless first-year event, so go ahead and accept that there will be bumps and bruises in Formula One’s $500 million Las Vegas Grand Prix.

The warning signs were as bright as The Sphere when early pricing opened for this week’s extravaganza, the most expensive grand prix to attend on this year’s 24-race calendar.

With multimillion-dollar hospitality packages, exorbitant hotel rates and an initial average “get-in price” of about $2,000, this race was never about attracting new fans to the global motorsports series or growing the American audience. F1 owner Liberty Media clearly viewed a race in Las Vegas as an international showstopper for the highest of the high rollers.

Renee Wilm, CEO of the grand prix, vowed “we will be sold out by the time of the event” on a Nov. 3 earnings call by Formula One Group.

Well, the big race has finally arrived and tickets are still available, both directly and on a dramatically reduced secondary market. Hotel prices along the Strip have plummeted and all signs suggest first-time F1 race promoter Liberty appears to have grossly overshot the price point for drawing in new fans and spenders.

Ticket prices slashed as much as 60% for some of the days ahead of Saturday night’s race are only a small part of the behind-the-scenes heartburn. Locals were infuriated by the daily disruptions caused by construction of the 3.85-mile (6.2 kilometer) street circuit that utilizes a large portion of the Strip while highlighting several Las Vegas landmarks with a 17-turn layout that’s been likened to a " flying pig.”

There were early reports that F1 was demanding exorbitant licensing fees from any business that had a view of the track. F1 eventually relaxed its fees, but not before reportedly threatening to erect structures that would block the views. There are fresh concerns as to how casino employees will get to work once the Strip is closed so Max Verstappen can win another race in a season where he long ago clinched the championship.

The Caesars Palace Grand Prix ran in 1981 and 1982 on another mocked course, that time because it utilized a huge chunk of parking lot. This race has had almost two years of hype; this is F1’s baby, backed by Liberty, which spent $240 million to purchase property at the end of the Strip for construction of the paddock area and a permanent pit building.

That investment was included in one-time costs Greg Maffei, president and CEO of Liberty, highlighted when Ben Swinburne of Morgan Stanley asked on the earnings call “are you guys still expecting this sort of approaching $500 million of revenue?”

“I think those revenue numbers approaching that (are) still a reasonable estimate on profitability,” Maffei replied. “We’ve seen some one-time and start-up costs that may have been larger than anticipated. But remembering how this is impactful to us, not only directly, but indirectly, this is a very profitable race for us. Once we get past some of these initial start-up costs ... it will increase. Let’s be clear, this year, we optimize for being there, being on time and having a great race.

“That’s not to say we won’t have some of (those) objectives next year, but I think we’ll be able to optimize on other variables as well and increase profitability.”

F1 and Liberty want Las Vegas to become a long-term fixture on the F1 schedule.

This week will be deemed a success by its promoters when all is said and done because F1’s return to Las Vegas after 41 years is a star-studded entertainment event. When the race was announced in early 2022, Liberty was clearly chasing the Netflix-driven, newfound popularity of F1 within the United States.

Las Vegas’ addition to the 2023 calendar is the third stop in the U.S – more than any other country – and fifth in North America. Before the behind-the-scenes “Drive to Survive” docudrama that exploded at the height of the pandemic, Austin, Texas, was the home of the lone F1 stop in the U.S. until Miami was added in 2022. The U.S. last hosted three F1 races in one season in 1982.

But nothing about this weekend is targeted toward the new American fan, starting with the pricing or when cars are even on the track. The Saturday night race itself isn’t scheduled to begin until 10 p.m. local — it is meant to be televised in Europe during the Sunday morning hours — and as such Las Vegas’ nighttime temperatures are expected to make for the coldest race in series history.

There is plenty to do while waiting for the actual racing. The parties and special events run all week and feature “The Netflix Cup,” a live event that will pit drivers from “Drive to Survive” and golfers from “Full Swing” in a match-play tournament.

Verstappen, who clinched a third consecutive world championship with six races remaining and has won 17 of 20 races this season, is unimpressed.

“First of all, I think we are there more for the show than the racing itself if you look at the layout of the track,” Verstappen said. “But you know, I’m actually not that into it. I’m more like, ‘I’ll go there and do my thing and be gone again.’”

And that’s the other problem with this ballyhooed event. Barring a complete disaster, Verstappen and Red Bull should win again this weekend and American racing fans don’t find his dominance all that appealing. Viewership on ESPN this season is down 8% from last year, but his Nov. 5 win in Brazil was still the most-watched show that day on the sports network and averaged a larger audience in 18-to-34 demographic than the NASCAR championship finale, according to SportsMedia Watch.

F1 is still hitting high marks with its global audience, which appreciates the nuances of the racing series and understands the best competition isn’t usually for the win. F1 President Stefano Domenicali touched on that with investors.

“The other teams are still competing firstly, with tight battles all the way down the field at every event,” Domenicali said on the earnings call. He noted that six different teams have scored podium finishes this season, and Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes have improved.

“We have more battles left to witness for the remainder of the season, even with the number of teams shifting focus to their 2024 cars,” Domenicali said. “With gaps in performance appearing to be closing over recent events, we hope for a real challenge for Max next year.”
 

 

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utee94

utee94 15746

Posted
Posted

Finally finished watching all of that "Opening Ceremony."  It was hideously perfect for Las Vegas.

Agree with the commercialization of the sport but that's not something that can be blamed on Americans.  Is there any bit of a car that doesn't have some advertising on it?  What about the driving suits?  Helmets?  None of this is our fault.

However, Las Vegas, yeah, you can blame that directly on us yanks.  Sorry for partying.

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wood

wood 11186

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, NoName said:

you are preaching to the choir on this front man.

correct me here if i am wrong @wood but the discussion is that the goal is to have a race in vegas on the strip in part to try and market vegas to that european crowd.

they DGAF about making Americans or the Chinese get up early to watch a race but are against it happening in Europe.

That's the weird bit. F1/Liberty stresses that this race is a linchpin of securing the and growing the American market for F1, but then they clearly set the start times for the Euros, which imho is being done to market the Strip to the European audience. 

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wood

wood 11186

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Posted (edited)

Who was that chick that absolutely murdered/screamed Come Together, and who was the Blondie/Stefani wannabe chick that couldn't sing at all? Jared Leto in a racing suit that didn't fit was funny AF. I guess even racing suits don't come in size "6 foot, Extra Scarecrow". 

The best part was J. Balvin in the huge firesuit. Love his music and sense of humor.

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Blotto

Blotto 23434

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Posted

Just out of curiosity, I checked priceline for a bundle of flights + hotel leaving Austin tomorrow and spending 3 nights, flying back monday. Flying Delta direct both ways you can stay in the MGM for $775, Mandalay Bay for $863, NYNY $900, Aria $1200. Those prices were for one person, if you have two people splitting the hotel its even cheaper. Not nearly as expensive as I would have guessed. Shit you can stay in the crappy hotels luke Luxor for $542 lulz. Thats with RT direct flights on Delta. Thats about as cheap as you ever see it, so I'm believing that article above when it says Vegas seriously overestimated the allure of the event. 

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wood

wood 11186

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Just out of curiosity, I checked priceline for a bundle of flights + hotel leaving Austin tomorrow and spending 3 nights, flying back monday. Flying Delta direct both ways you can stay in the MGM for $775, Mandalay Bay for $863, NYNY $900, Aria $1200. Those prices were for one person, if you have two people splitting the hotel its even cheaper. Not nearly as expensive as I would have guessed. Shit you can stay in the crappy hotels luke Luxor for $542 lulz. Thats with RT direct flights on Delta. Thats about as cheap as you ever see it, so I'm believing that article above when it says Vegas seriously overestimated the allure of the event. 

Yep, and overestimated, as did COTA, how many people would pay insane prices. The ticket price fall is pretty much mimicking COTA's this year. I've been saying for a while that the COVID/Netflix bubble is bursting, at least in the US. Yesterday a Vegas article pretty much confirmed that.

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/as-vegas-f1-race-approaches-questions-loom-over-lofty-economic-projections

"But dwindling prices may not be an isolated incident. 

Andrew Balfour, a writer who runs the website F1 Destinations and who has tracked F1 ticket prices for years, told The Nevada Independent earlier this year that in-person ticket costs have increased across the board at Formula One races in 2022, amid a surge of fan interest for grandstands that had been limited or closed entirely during pandemic-affected seasons in 2020 and 2021. 

But in 2023, Balfour said fans have soured on rising costs. That was particularly acute in Miami and Austin — two of the most expensive races on the calendar, alongside Las Vegas, Monaco and Mexico City — where tickets were ultimately discounted amid lower-than-expected demand.

“These races haven't sold out this year, and I think people are more price sensitive,” he said."

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7730

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, NoName said:

yeah but the timeline is off in Europe for a race at that time.

8p in Vegas is 4a in London and 5a in Paris/Rome/Berlin.

meanwhile 11p in Vegas is 7a in London and 8a in Paris/Rome/Berlin while also being mid afternoon in China.

Right, that's my point.  Fuck an 11pm start.  That's just stupid.  This race is going to go over like a fart in church.  It'll be good for the viewers in Europe, but who wants to go to a sporting event that starts at 11?

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