Formula 1 2023

[RPM 26,426]

23 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Add to that the fact that it was night with a lit track, and they just seem to disappear.

This. The grandstands were a relatively small crowd, but they were vocal on lead changes. 

[PittsburghTiger 6,239]

That was a lot better than I had expected. The racing was pretty solid.

As others have said, the tackiness of Las Vegas is bad but, it is Las Vegas but, American trash is no more tacky than Euro or Asia trash. 

[Mittens 8,373]

Concur w/ the majority.  Hard to complain about a race w/ that many position changes, especially up front.  Still felt a little weird - like the passes were almost too easy maybe?  I don't know if that holds water at all, it just didn't feel....right?  idk  Kind of dumb to complain about a lot of passing when all you ever whine about is not enough passing.

 

[Levi 2,606]

11 hours ago, Levi said:

Everything leading up to this race has felt manufactured or just simply not executed well and it’s missing that “race feel.” The drivers seem like they want this to be over with already. 

The race definitely made up for the lackluster feeling I had. That was a fun race to watch. Surprise result from Ocon. 

[wood 11,573]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

I enjoyed the race but one thing was notable: where were the fans? You couldn’t see or hear them at all.

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I think in proportion to the track size, there are very few grandstands. Add to that the fact that it was night with a lit track, and they just seem to disappear.

43 minutes ago, RPM said:

This. The grandstands were a relatively small crowd, but they were vocal on lead changes. 

Actually there were like 21-22 grandstands. They were just left dark, next to the extremely brightly lit track and all the other lights. You'd rarely see them at all unless you were looking for them. From the middle of the front straight all the way to just past the Sphere was almost solid grandstands. They held almost all of the 100K people with little to no GA at all.  By comparison, COTA's grandstands for example currently hold about 56K.

[wood 11,573]

1 hour ago, Mittens said:

Concur w/ the majority.  Hard to complain about a race w/ that many position changes, especially up front.  Still felt a little weird - like the passes were almost too easy maybe?  I don't know if that holds water at all, it just didn't feel....right?  idk  Kind of dumb to complain about a lot of passing when all you ever whine about is not enough passing

I really thought the DRS placements were just about right (if we must have DRS at all). My kid was saying it looked like they didn't even really need it. There were some drive-by’s but for the most part the zones enabled cars to get within striking range which, if we must have it, should be exactly what DRS does imho. Some of the drivers also said the low deg allowed them to push like hell, and it showed on the track. They had fun. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by wood

[wood 11,573]

Sainz says the oil spill caused the L1T1 mess.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/11/19/sainz-blames-unacceptable-pre-race-oil-spill-grid-turn-one-crashes/

This was pretty much what me & my kid were thinking. It just looked unnaturally slippery compared to what we had already seen the rest of the weekend. The rear of Alonso's car went around like it was on ice.

[BonzoMontreaux 1,114]

I enjoyed the hell out of that race. LeClerc grabbing P2 on the last lap was fantastic. It almost always makes for a good race when you see the likes of Perez starting outside the top 10. Very tight race all around.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

I enjoyed the hell out of that race. LeClerc grabbing P2 on the last lap was fantastic. It almost always makes for a good race when you see the likes of Perez starting outside the top 10. Very tight race all around.

Lol. That's been... a lot this year. Eight races outside the top 10. Half the races in 9th or worse.

[wood 11,573]

Re: the Vegas grandstands, I was just told by loki that it was 105K actual seats.

Oh and credit where credit is due, that pass by Lulu on (iirc) Piastri there near the end was very nice. There was a lot of good passing that wasn't the typical driveby crap. Fun stuff.

[Guest]

Abu Dhabi is likely just sitting there thinking "Fuck."

I've watched every race this season and after this one, I don't even know if I care about watching Abu Dhabi. There's nothing new or unique to witness, there isn't a battle for anything of consequence. Just seems like a random Lions versus Cardinals NFL game tacked on after the Super Bowl already wrapped up.

[PittsburghTiger 6,239]

21 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Abu Dhabi is likely just sitting there thinking "Fuck."

I've watched every race this season and after this one, I don't even know if I care about watching Abu Dhabi. There's nothing new or unique to witness, there isn't a battle for anything of consequence. Just seems like a random Lions versus Cardinals NFL game tacked on after the Super Bowl already wrapped up.

F1 drivers race camels for double points on Saturday!

Vegas can’t top that!

[aggie08 21,578]

A distinctly European motorsport beginning and ending their season in the Middle East has always made it difficult for me to get into, and I usually check out early. 

At least they don't try to hide who writes their checks, I guess.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

Fun race. I feel LeClerc probably wins if not for that second safety car.  He drove the hell out of those older tires. 
 

US races 

Fuck Vegas

Marry COTA

Kill Miami 

Let Vegas stay and kill that abortion in Miami. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by VABuckeye

[Goofyboy 3,305]

I was not impressed with Vegas. The race was good - but how much of that was due to the early safety car? Lewis moving through the pack twice was cool - but again - safety car got the field bunched up.

[kevwun 15,943]

There's always going to be safety cars if they keep the current track config.

[Prepuce of Doom 21,112]

That race was a lot more fun than I expected it to be when first looking at the track, but I think a significant part of what made it fun (at least for me) was the chaos/shitshow factor like the oil on the track at the start, random crashes, etc., and nothing that anyone actually deserves credit for.

[Armybrat 40,987]

A Las Vegas friend posted on our little Vegas social board these two race pics he took from his seat in front of the Ellis Island casino/hotel. 
He used a pic another friend took (when she was leaving Vegas) to show his location….

 

 

[dieucla98 2,942]

Was entertaining for the chaos but like everything in Vegas, it felt manufactured. Cold night, no rubber, long straights great for easy overtakes. I enjoyed the show but it's not the same kind of race as other tracks.

Austin takes Miami's spot, Vegas takes Austin's, and Miami takes Vegas's. 

I know that's logistically impossible but that would put those three races in ideal slots. 

 

[blacklab 11,994]

You know what I really liked?

Not hearing "Track Limits" once. 

Amazing how the drivers can stay on the track with a wall there.

[wood 11,573]

52 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

Was entertaining for the chaos but like everything in Vegas, it felt manufactured. Cold night, no rubber, long straights great for easy overtakes. I enjoyed the show but it's not the same kind of race as other tracks.

Austin takes Miami's spot, Vegas takes Austin's, and Miami takes Vegas's. 

I know that's logistically impossible but that would put those three races in ideal slots. 

 

I still don't get this. There were a few easy overtakes here and there, but we see that in literally every race. Usually more. At many tracks that's basically ALL we see. There were far more difficult, creative overtakes on this circuit than we've seen at one GP in years. It's like we were watching different races. And if it was the same kind of race we get at other tracks, then they would have failed imho. They need different kinds of racing, not the same kind at every track. 

I'm also not sure how May in Austin is better than October in Austin. Hotter & more humid? Yep. Better? How?

Edited November 20, 2023 by wood

[ConferenceRoom 6,147]

Decent race. Five second penalties are lame. I’d rather go to Singapore. 

[Napoleon 8,710]

11 hours ago, wood said:

Sainz says the oil spill caused the L1T1 mess.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/11/19/sainz-blames-unacceptable-pre-race-oil-spill-grid-turn-one-crashes/

This was pretty much what me & my kid were thinking. It just looked unnaturally slippery compared to what we had already seen the rest of the weekend. The rear of Alonso's car went around like it was on ice.

The old-timey cars need to be retrofitted as electric cars for next year’s race so that none of them piss out oil on the track right before the race.

That colossal fuckup looked like something that I would see in Argentina  🇦🇷 

Just a complete clusterfuck of an error that could have easily been prevented.

 

7 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Fun race. I feel LeClerc probably wins if not for that second safety car.  He drove the hell out of those older tires. 
 

US races 

Fuck Vegas

Marry COTA

Kill Miami 

Let Vegas stay and kill that abortion in Miami. 

1) Sharl LaClair

2) Some F1 guy said before the race that “having races in Miami, Las Vegas, and New York were the kind of cities that F1 deserves.”

 

4 hours ago, Armybrat said:

A Las Vegas friend posted on our little Vegas social board these two race pics he took from his seat in front of the Ellis Island casino/hotel. 
He used a pic another friend took (when she was leaving Vegas) to show his location….

 

 

I didn’t know that there was an “Ellis Island” casino.

I bet that that place reeks of garlic, bad breath, B.O., and AXE body spray.

[ConferenceRoom 6,147]

Bold takes.

[NoName 16,605]

18 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Abu Dhabi is likely just sitting there thinking "Fuck."

I've watched every race this season and after this one, I don't even know if I care about watching Abu Dhabi. There's nothing new or unique to witness, there isn't a battle for anything of consequence. Just seems like a random Lions versus Cardinals NFL game tacked on after the Super Bowl already wrapped up.

4 points between MB and Ferrari for 2nd in WCC

11 between McLaren and Aston Martin

highly doubt that anything else flips there at the bottom.

if you want a real laugh look at how shit Haas has been. Hulk has 3 more points than Danny Ric and has no points since Australia. KMag has 2 more points than Sargent.

the last lap is exactly what Checo is toast. Max drops like a second+ on the last lap to try and help him and he STILL gets passed by a move he never saw coming at the last place a move like that could be made. why wasn't he covering the inside move? if he goes the long way around and beats you then he beats you but come on man.

 

[dieucla98 2,942]

10 hours ago, wood said:

I still don't get this. There were a few easy overtakes here and there, but we see that in literally every race. Usually more. At many tracks that's basically ALL we see. There were far more difficult, creative overtakes on this circuit than we've seen at one GP in years. It's like we were watching different races. And if it was the same kind of race we get at other tracks, then they would have failed imho. They need different kinds of racing, not the same kind at every track. 

I'm also not sure how May in Austin is better than October in Austin. Hotter & more humid? Yep. Better? How?

I don't think long straight overtakes are that interesting. The final sweeping corner had some good overtakes, turn 14 was probably the best but it felt like most were done on the long straight with ease. And most of the "creative" overtakes were because someone was on tires in a bad spot. 

Put Austin earlier in the season for a better track - more meaningful time of the season. Weather isn't going to be much different but that's not the point. 

[NoName 16,605]

21 hours ago, Mittens said:

 Still felt a little weird - like the passes were almost too easy maybe?  I don't know if that holds water at all, it just didn't feel....right?  idk  Kind of dumb to complain about a lot of passing when all you ever whine about is not enough passing.

https://racingpass.net/las-vegas-gp-had-99-overtakes-the-most-in-a-dry-race-since-china-2016-full-data-in-post/

Quote

The 2023 Las Vegas GP had 99 Overtakes, 54 of these were shown in the live broadcast. This is the highest amount of overtakes in a dry race since China 2016 which had 170. Lewis Hamilton did 15 overtakes this race which is the highest amount in a single race this season.

their analysis:

Quote

The 2023 event safely put to bed any fears that the Las Vegas track couldn’t produce much overtaking. Four long ‘straights’ into reasonably heavy braking zones made for plenty of overtaking opportunities this race. A key factor in these producing good racing is that all these passing opportunities were connected making it very difficult to break the tow. The section between T5 and T9 was the only section where a driver could really make a gap. This lead to there being much less field spread than usual so drivers were much more likely to be in competition with eachother. The two safety cars will have helped overtaking particularly the first one which brought drivers caught up in the first corner incident back into the race. The unique challenge of the colder conditions and green track with no support races may have also helped but it wasn’t really that much colder than Silverstone and Nurburgring have been occasionally in the past. 99 overtakes will likely prove to be an outloier but iI’d say the Las Vegas circuit should reliably produce good racing, largely because of the connected overtaking opportunities making it hard to break the tow.

and race by race:

edit - adding in some comments from the reddit discussion:

Quote

Long straights, DRS, minimal tyre management. Half the grid was made up of cars that qualified way out of position for the pace they actually had. A few cars that qualified in the top 10 had worse pace than quite a few of the cars in P11-P20. Sainz had a penalty, Checo had a strategic error, as did the McLarens, AMR were out of position, Ocon was knocked out of Q1 with enough pace for Q2 at least, Hamilton was out of position. Yeah, that would be a recipe for plenty of overtakes.

+

Quote

As Martin repeatedly said, while technically a dry race the track conditions made it seem much more like an intermediate race, which frequently have a ton of overtakes and a lot of excitement.

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by NoName

[Guest]

That left-hander at the end of the Vegas strip -- were there no distance markers there? Seemed like cars couldn't find their brake points at that spot and it led to some great passes and moments. Isn't that where LeClerc went to far and Checo passed and then where LeClerc passed him later?

[kevwun 15,943]

I believe the announcers said it was up to the drivers to pick some kind of reference point for their braking.

[Anton Chigurh 3,321]

I heard that comment too but it was odd, because they definitely did have them. You can see the 200m one here on the right of Charles, counting down to 0.

[Guest]

If a race day ticket was sub-$200, I'd totally fly into Vegas, head out to Zion for a couple of days, drive back in, watch the race, and then catch a red-eye flight back home.

[wood 11,573]

7 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

I don't think long straight overtakes are that interesting. The final sweeping corner had some good overtakes, turn 14 was probably the best but it felt like most were done on the long straight with ease. And most of the "creative" overtakes were because someone was on tires in a bad spot. 

Put Austin earlier in the season for a better track - more meaningful time of the season. Weather isn't going to be much different but that's not the point. 

I don't think the typical long straight DRS overtake is that interesting either, but there was a lot more overtaking in this race than what was done on the straights. I think you must have missed a lot of the overtaking in corners. Even some of the DRS overtakes were close and were only getting done right at the end of the straight. Re: overtaking being done because someone's tires are going off, we see the same thing in every race, and I couldn't care less if that's the reason as long as the overtaking car had to work for it a bit.

Re: moving Austin out of October, Bobby ain't going for that. He likes to be right in the mix with Texas Football, ACL, Halloween, etc because it muddies the economic impact picture just the way he needs it to. 

[wood 11,573]

15 hours ago, Napoleon said:

2) Some F1 guy said before the race that “having races in Miami, Las Vegas, and New York were the kind of cities that F1 deserves.”

Someone representing F1 said that?

[wood 11,573]

7 hours ago, NoName said:

https://racingpass.net/las-vegas-gp-had-99-overtakes-the-most-in-a-dry-race-since-china-2016-full-data-in-post/

their analysis:

and race by race:

edit - adding in some comments from the reddit discussion:

All of that ... and imho one of the biggest reasons: low tire deg allowed the drivers to push like hell all race rather than babying the tires all race.

2 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

I heard that comment too but it was odd, because they definitely did have them. You can see the 200m one here on the right of Charles, counting down to 0.

Yeah I remember hearing that too and then looking up and seeing distance markers. It is hard af to spot the turn-in points and braking points there though, at least partially because of the way runoffs look like a continuation of the track from a distance and how the turns seem to blend in with the rest of the fencing.

[Napoleon 8,710]

42 minutes ago, wood said:

Someone representing F1 said that?

I believe so. 

Either a someone with F1, used to be with F1, or is a car owner.

 I can go back and find it on the build up, but it was someone interviewed down on the track before the race. 

[Chewbacca 7,793]

19 hours ago, blacklab said:

You know what I really liked?

Not hearing "Track Limits" once. 

Amazing how the drivers can stay on the track with a wall there.

Except when Lewis punted the traffic cone.

[Anton Chigurh 3,321]

I believe so. 
Either a someone with F1, used to be with F1, or is a car owner.
 I can go back and find it on the build up, but it was someone interviewed down on the track before the race. 

Pretty sure it was Chase Carey.

[wood 11,573]

1 hour ago, Napoleon said:

I believe so. 

Either a someone with F1, used to be with F1, or is a car owner.

 I can go back and find it on the build up, but it was someone interviewed down on the track before the race. 

 

Quote

Pretty sure it was Chase Carey.

Wow.

Edited November 21, 2023 by wood

[Buzzrock 15,026]

I didn’t know that there was an “Ellis Island” casino.
I bet that that place reeks of garlic, bad breath, B.O., and AXE body spray.

You keep the national treasure that is Ellis Island Casino out yo damn mouth

[Napoleon 8,710]

7 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Pretty sure it was Chase Carey.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/chase-carey-f1-extra-usa-venue#:~:text=“This is what it should,in%2C and Vegas delivered.”

[Napoleon 8,710]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:01 AM, Napoleon said:

I didn’t know that there was an “Ellis Island” casino.

I bet that that place reeks of garlic, bad breath, B.O., and AXE body spray.

Apparently I wasn’t far off. 

…When you need a room for a night that costs less than the minimum bet at blackjack tables on The Strip…

“Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to bet their last dollar.” 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Napoleon

[utee94 15,878]

Watkins Glen NY?  Yes please.

A street race in Manhattan?  Good Lord, no.

 

 

[wood 11,573]

Whatever you might think of Kimmel, this was pretty good. Dude reminds me of my lawn sprinkler guy. I especially liked the part with Casey Affleck. 

 

[RPM 26,426]

 

[ConferenceRoom 6,147]

How the turn tables. 

[wood 11,573]

LMAO at Damon re: Max complaining about things others do, as if he's the only one doing it & it's something new. OK ....

Damon is probably the worst of the lot. Utter waste of a mic.

[wood 11,573]

Toto Wolff raves about ‘really good’ 21-year-old who can’t get on the Formula 1 grid
https://www.f1oversteer.com/news/toto-wolff-raves-about-really-good-21-year-old-who-cant-get-on-the-formula-1-grid/

Quote

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff has said it’s unfortunate that more young drivers can’t get into Formula 1 after Frederik Vesti took part in Free Practice 1 in Abu Dhabi ... "Yeah, it’s unfortunate when you look at some of the guys that drove now in FP1, there’s a few of them that would deserve to be in a Formula 1 car and at the moment there’s a bit of a blockage."

Hmm ... if only there was some way to get another 2 - 4 drivers onto the grid.  Blockage indeed.

Edited November 24, 2023 by wood

[Levi 2,606]

Yuki!

[NoName 16,605]

They can't keep Checo. Just foolish at this point

Quali:

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by NoName

[texas08 1,599]