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Formula 1 2023

Anton Chigurh

By Anton Chigurh
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PittsburghTiger
PittsburghTiger

So, we ran a few errands here, outside the Black Forest and got back to the house and I started thinking (usually dangerous) “I think I will look again for tickets for Sunday”, And I’ll be damned. Fuc

elfenix
elfenix

Next special livery for the Williams https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-reveal-special-gulf-livery-chosen-by-f1-fan-vote/10494807/

Mittens
Mittens

So people can see w/o clicking:  

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utee94

utee94 16065

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8 hours ago, deft said:

Pretty big yawn so far on this one.

Big lulz at Toto having to cheer on lulu and remind him that he is actually fast instead of bitching

Yeah that was really weird.  Not sure what's going on in that dude's head but this is not a good sign for him.

Anyway, congrats to Max and RBR.  What a just unbelievably dominating season.  

 

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dieucla98

dieucla98 2954

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Not enough care to give to verify, but was LeClerc trying to thread the needle so he'd finish above Perez but Perez in front of George after the penalty? 

I assume that was the only scenario that Ferrari jumps Merc - if Perez splits the two and otherwise, Merc wins. Commend the effort but quite the task.

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Goofyboy

Goofyboy 3428

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Not enough care to give to verify, but was LeClerc trying to thread the needle so he'd finish above Perez but Perez in front of George after the penalty? 
I assume that was the only scenario that Ferrari jumps Merc - if Perez splits the two and otherwise, Merc wins. Commend the effort but quite the task.

Basically.
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VABuckeye

VABuckeye 2481

Posted
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9 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

Not enough care to give to verify, but was LeClerc trying to thread the needle so he'd finish above Perez but Perez in front of George after the penalty? 

I assume that was the only scenario that Ferrari jumps Merc - if Perez splits the two and otherwise, Merc wins. Commend the effort but quite the task.

Russell gave LeClerc credit in his post race interview for playing it fairly and not backing him up once Perez passed LeClerc.

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NoName

NoName 17105

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are they really going to bring Sargent back after getting shut out in quali and winning the world destruction championship?

4jhrhvczaw2c1.png

more reddit shit - this guy put together an awesome chart of the entire season a bunch of different ways: https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/mateusz.karmalski/viz/F1ResultsTracker/Results

this is why they can't roll with Checo next year:

z7m5t7rf5v2c1.png?width=960&crop=smart&a

median quali position of 9 - behind VER, HAM, ALO, LEC, NOR, SAI, RUS and just barely ahead of PIA. and that includes quali in the top 3 in 4 of the first 5 races.

another cool graph:

8ubzrxqf5v2c1.png?width=960&crop=smart&a

look at the FER drivers dropping 1.7 spots on avg between quali and race.

stroll maybe just sucks at quali and is a better race driver than we give him credit for. OCO and GAS show what we all know, which is GAS is better at quali and better in race. wonder how big the gap would be if he didn't get fucked multiple times by his own team's strategy...

f07krxqf5v2c1.png?width=960&crop=smart&a

another reason SAR is probably toast. 17x out in Q3. Zhou better be glad he brings the $$$ because he was out 15x. 9 podiums for Checho in the RB19 is is absolutely pathetic - 4 in the first 5 races and 4 in the next 17 and 1 in the last 8 races of the year?! Norris had 7 in a car that was objectively a shitbox for like a third of the season.

---

dude points out that sprint races had 0 impact on WDC and WCC: https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/184xwbs/sprint_had_zero_effect_on_drivers_and/
 

Quote

 

If you substract all the points gained from Sprint races, all 10 teams and 22 drivers end up in the exact same standings at the end of the season. Top 5 teams and top 10 drivers got 92% of the points.

There are some changes in the points that don't affect the standings, like Alonso being ahead of Leclerc not just on countback, and McLaren being even with Aston (but Lando having more 2nd places than Alonso). But besides that, Max is still winning the WDC by himself with more than double the points ahead of Checo, Ferrari still had a chance to cinch P2 in Abu Dhabi (although a smaller one), Logan still finished 21st and all other talking points of the season are unchanged.

There's been vague talk about changing the format for the next year, and I really hope they put some actual thought into it.

 

ztx9v901lu2c1.png?width=796&format=png&a

 

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7827

Posted
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5 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Russell gave LeClerc credit in his post race interview for playing it fairly and not backing him up once Perez passed LeClerc.

They talked about that on the cool down couch.  LeClerc said he was afraid he would lose too much time to Checo and lose P2 if he played games trying to back George up.  So he just let Checo through and hoped he could pull 5 seconds on George.

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faps

faps 818

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Posted (edited)

Would be funny if they don't bring Sargeant back considering how supportive and adamant Vowles has been saying he is def coming back next year.

And about the Max laps led record, I suppose there is always next year. Not sure if I can handle another Max domination tour.

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NoName

NoName 17105

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15 minutes ago, faps said:

Would be funny if they don't bring Sargeant back considering how supportive and adamant Vowles has been saying he is def coming back next year.

And about the Max laps led record, I suppose there is always next year. Not sure if I can handle another Max domination tour.

he had every opportunity in the post race interview to confirm, buxton (i think) directly asked him and he choose to not confirm.

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faps

faps 818

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Posted
7 minutes ago, NoName said:

he had every opportunity in the post race interview to confirm, buxton (i think) directly asked him and he choose to not confirm.

He had a whole season to show what he could do. I guess he improved along the way, but not enough, imo, to get another year. Too many other good young drivers that could be promoted from F2 or wherever.

Speaking of, how the hell does HAAS roll with their two guys? You'd think they'd want some youth in at least one of the seats.

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NoName

NoName 17105

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6 minutes ago, faps said:

Speaking of, how the hell does HAAS roll with their two guys? You'd think they'd want some youth in at least one of the seats.

the rest of F1 to Haas:

Serious Brian Cox GIF by SuccessionHBO

i think they have fewer points in the last 4 full years than they had in the one season 5 years ago.

just not serious about anything

 

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Anton Chigurh

Anton Chigurh 3332

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He had a whole season to show what he could do. I guess he improved along the way, but not enough, imo, to get another year. Too many other good young drivers that could be promoted from F2 or wherever.
Speaking of, how the hell does HAAS roll with their two guys? You'd think they'd want some youth in at least one of the seats.


Since there’s not really another Charles/Russell/Lando/Albon in the F2 ranks currently, teams probably aren’t willing to risk a new driver going through a steep learning curve again unless/until they have to.

Even then, getting on top of these cars and especially these tires can take a little while.

Oscar Piastri, who by all accounts is pretty damn good, hasn’t really even come close to getting on top of race tire management yet.
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elfenix

elfenix 34658

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so, you pay a shit ton of money to sit on the start/finish line at abu dhabi.  there's like two things to actually witness if you're there: the start and the finish.  the start you see just fine.  but the finish?  obscured by a fuck ton of fireworks and smoke. 

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wood

wood 11747

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11 hours ago, faps said:

He had a whole season to show what he could do. I guess he improved along the way, but not enough, imo, to get another year. Too many other good young drivers that could be promoted from F2 or wherever.

Speaking of, how the hell does HAAS roll with their two guys? You'd think they'd want some youth in at least one of the seats.

See post above this one.^

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wood

wood 11747

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Good read with some great points, from TheDrive.com:

Toto Wolff Is Running Out of Excuses to Oppose Andretti Cadillac’s F1 Entry: GM-backed Andretti has the money, Cadillac’s name, and true intent. Why can’t F1’s top brass see the value in that https://www.thedrive.com/news/toto-wolff-is-running-out-of-excuses-to-oppose-andretti-cadillacs-f1-entry

Quote

Now, obviously, Wolff has been far from the only prominent individual in the sport vocally opposed to Andretti's entry. Aston Martin's Lawrence Stroll has said a lot, though his rationale tends to boil down to not fixing what isn't broke, and erroneous comparisons to other professional sporting leagues. "The right way to come in if you want to enter the NFL today, NHL hockey or any great sports franchise is that you've got to buy a team," he recently told ESPN on the paddock in Las Vegas. It's clear Stroll hasn't spent a wealth of time in Sin City over the last few years, nor watched much hockey, or he just might've heard of the Golden Knights.

Exactly. Yeah, Big Stroll, that's because the NHL is currently full, after a recent expansion where teams were allowed in without buying existing teams. So hilarious that he said that in Vegas, home of one of the most recent expansion teams in the NHL. F1, however, is not currently full-up. There are a couple of vacancies.

The teams don't really have a leg to stand on anyway re: "lost winnings". The truth is that they've benefitted greatly from extra winnings collected due to running a partial grid with winning shares based only on that partial grid. Some have said that winning shares should be based on a full grid, not on 10 teams in the first place, and imho that's spot on. What the teams are truly arguing is that they should continue receiving extra payment, not full payment. In fact, if Andretti entered today and the winnings were then split 11 ways, they would all still be getting extra payment, just not as much extra payment.

How long until they figure out that they could take an even bigger share of the money with even fewer teams on the grid? Better watch your cornholes, Haas, Sauber, Williams, etc.

Re: the dilution fee, Stroll should also note that the most recent fee paid by an NHL expansion team worked out to about $20M per existing team, which is what F1 is asking and what Andretti is willing to pay. Sounds to me like the existing teams would be getting a helluva deal, and they wouldn't even have to make any of their talent available to the new team the way existing NHL teams do when the new team enters.

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NoName

NoName 17105

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14 minutes ago, wood said:

Good read with some great points, from TheDrive.com:

Toto Wolff Is Running Out of Excuses to Oppose Andretti Cadillac’s F1 Entry: GM-backed Andretti has the money, Cadillac’s name, and true intent. Why can’t F1’s top brass see the value in that https://www.thedrive.com/news/toto-wolff-is-running-out-of-excuses-to-oppose-andretti-cadillacs-f1-entry

Exactly. Yeah, Big Stroll, that's because the NHL is currently full, after a recent expansion where teams were allowed in without buying existing teams. So hilarious that he said that in Vegas, home of one of the most recent expansion teams in the NHL. F1, however, is not currently full-up. There are a couple of vacancies.

The teams don't really have a leg to stand on anyway re: "lost winnings". The truth is that they've benefitted greatly from extra winnings collected due to running a partial grid with winning shares based only on that partial grid. Some have said that winning shares should be based on a full grid, not on 10 teams in the first place, and imho that's spot on. What the teams are truly arguing is that they should continue receiving extra payment, not full payment. In fact, if Andretti entered today and the winnings were then split 11 ways, they would all still be getting extra payment, just not as much extra payment.

How long until they figure out that they could take an even bigger share of the money with even fewer teams on the grid? Better watch your cornholes, Haas, Sauber, Williams, etc.

Re: the dilution fee, Stroll should also note that the most recent fee paid by an NHL expansion team worked out to about $20M per existing team, which is what F1 is asking and what Andretti is willing to pay. Sounds to me like the existing teams would be getting a helluva deal, and they wouldn't even have to make any of their talent available to the new team the way existing NHL teams do when the new team enters.

if they wanted to limit it to 10 teams...they have had a decade to limit it to 10 teams oficially or to make the buy in amount astronomical.

but they haven't.

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wood

wood 11747

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Yep. Anyone coming from out of town better get their hotel rooms now. But Bobby loves that overlap. Helps keep those waters muddy.

OBTW I loved the caption under the flyover. Something like "F1 Sustainable Flyover by Qatar Airways" - after banning military flyovers to reduce carbon emissions - as a massive commercial jet and 7 small jets fly past. Too funny, just like all the burnouts at the end of the sustainable racing season. LOL. Good stuff. And to be clear, I have no problem with it not being sustainable. It's the pretense ....

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wood

wood 11747

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Wow I just realized ... there's the 4-week summer break, then 4 races, then a 4-week gap, then a triple header starting at COTA, a 3-week break, and then - you guessed it - triple header. In a 24-race calendar from Feb to Dec. Seems like some or all of those triple headers could have been avoided.

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NoName

NoName 17105

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https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/mph-f1-team-mate-battles-which-drivers-were-quicker-in-2023/
 

Quote

 

Here’s how the comparison has been compiled. For each driver pair, only times from the same session have been included. So if one gets through to Q2 and the other goes out in Q1, we only compare their Q1 times, so the comparison is not skewed by track evolution.

All wet qualifying sessions have been taken out. There is way too much random variance on any wet or even damp circuit. According to when you cross the line to begin the lap, the track could be 1sec or more faster/slower than when your team mate did, so invalidating any comparison.

 

image.thumb.png.4179a232ffab2a69c639d809ff5d5270.png

 

 

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VABuckeye

VABuckeye 2481

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As per a report in the Business F1 magazine, at the 2022 Singapore GP Toto Wolff received confidential info from within the FIA and leaked 2021 cost cap results to the media before any team including Red Bull had seen the results It was later revealed that Shaila Ann Rao (FIA Interim Secretary General) at the time leaked the information to Toto Wolff. Team Principals are also concerned that Toto has access to confidential information since Susie Wolff is employed by the Formula 1 Group A former team principal said: "Imagine that Geri Horner or Raquell Stroll were appointed to head up F2 or get a job at Liberty...." [Business F1]
 
quote:
The report also explains why these discussions have been suddenly sparked: At the last meeting Toto Wolff had advanced information about a topic that came up which surprised a number of team principals. According to a person in the meeting, Toto Wolff immediately realised that he 'overspoke' and his 'uncomfortable' body language immediately aroused suspicion.


 

Things might get interesting in the off-season. 

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