Formula 1 2023

[Fastbreak 3948]

[Dutch 4464]

Hülkenberg stopped on track, technically another red flag. Lulz

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

Shit show

[Hawndoh 2379]

That red flag call was some NASCAR BS. The restart was some IndyCar BS.

Aston and Alpine must be furious.

[Burt Macklin 18988]

2 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

That red flag call was some NASCAR BS. The restart was some IndyCar BS.

Aston and Alpine must be furious.

Yep. That red flag was just like NASCAR and exactly why I don’t watch NASCAR. What a joke. 

[Guest]

Just watched this morning. Thank god I didn't watch live. The red flag shit has to stop. Not every incident needs to be a red flag and you're creating more danger by doing it. A lot of teams that had a great race got hosed. Gasly ran a great race with nothing to show for it. Alonso very nearly had nothing to show for it. 

Also, I started watching post Alonso greatness. Holy shit he is growing on me quickly.

Edited April 2, 2023 by FirstTimeCaller

[Burt Macklin 18988]

I will say though, watching Stroll try to outbrake Sainz and go right in the gravel on that restart was hilarious. I could tell he was going to lose it before it even happened. That clown is going to get thoroughly out-qualified and out-raced all year and still have a decent season on paper. 

[RamjetFDO 10554]

#magicAlonso

[wood 11105]

8 hours ago, Dutch said:

Sainz 5 sec penalty

That one was tough. IMHO it wouldn't have felt right to allow him to finish P3 after giving Alonso nowhere to go and punting him, causing a chain reaction behind him and the last red flag. But on the other hand, it didn't feel right dropping him all the way out of the points. Not sure what else they could do though, as the rules stand. A 5s penalty is the minimum afaik. I've always thought that they should be able to penalize a certain number of positions. Seems like that would have worked much better in this case.

[wood 11105]

11 hours ago, texas08 said:

Whiny ass max

It sounded a bit whiny, but he wasn't wrong. He was ahead and Lewis ran him out of room on exit. You're supposed to leave a car's width in that situation. It was a classic Lewis move , and Lewis would have said the same thing had he been on the receiving end.

I just don't understand why they can't get that shit under control. Forcing people off on exit wasn't always a thing. It's just become accepted the last decade for some reason, and it's bullshit.

Edited April 2, 2023 by wood

[wood 11105]

On a side note, I was a bit disappointed at the end that we didn't get to see the (probably) awesome Alonso vs Hamilton battle that was about to come to a head. Alonso had been pushing Lewis's pace for a long time, making Lewis use his tires, and he was no doubt going to pounce and at least make Lewis defend at the end. Lewis also said Alonso was quicker than him at the end, too, so it would have at least been a good fight.

One amazing thing for me was when ALO spun, he immediately said to his race engineer to check for the restart with him in P3. And to mention Silverstone which was 10 years ago. Oh man, he is a monster. I doubt that many in the AM team were thinking about this possibility at that moment.

Edited April 2, 2023 by wood

[wood 11105]

*Uh, not 10 years ago. Last year. Not sure why my fingers said that.

[G650 13990]

Something has got to give with race control and how they end these things. Jesus

[Burt Macklin 18988]

42 minutes ago, wood said:

That one was tough. IMHO it wouldn't have felt right to allow him to finish P3 after giving Alonso nowhere to go and punting him, causing a chain reaction behind him and the last red flag. But on the other hand, it didn't feel right dropping him all the way out of the points. Not sure what else they could do though, as the rules stand. A 5s penalty is the minimum afaik. I've always thought that they should be able to penalize a certain number of positions. Seems like that would have worked much better in this case.

Yeah, it was going to be a shit show no matter what once they called the BS red flag. At that point, it was just a question of who got shafted by it. Any time you have a restart that late in the race, people will go for crazy moves and chaos will ensue. 
 

 

31 minutes ago, wood said:

On a side note, I was a bit disappointed at the end that we didn't get to see the (probably) awesome Alonso vs Hamilton battle that was about to come to a head. Alonso had been pushing Lewis's pace for a long time, making Lewis use his tires, and he was no doubt going to pounce and at least make Lewis defend at the end. Lewis also said Alonso was quicker than him at the end, too, so it would have at least been a good fight.

One amazing thing for me was when ALO spun, he immediately said to his race engineer to check for the restart with him in P3. And to mention Silverstone which was 10 years ago. Oh man, he is a monster. I doubt that many in the AM team were thinking about this possibility at that moment.

If Alonso actually had more pace, he would’ve got within DRS of Lewis at some point in the race. It was pretty obvious Lewis was managing the gap the whole time and the Mercs were just faster this race. Lewis had more pace left regardless of his radio messages. 

[wood 11105]

1 minute ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, it was going to be a shit show no matter what once they called the BS red flag. At that point, it was just a question of who got shafted by it. Any time you have a restart that late in the race, people will go for crazy moves and chaos will ensue. 

If Alonso actually had more pace, he would’ve got within DRS of Lewis at some point in the race. It was pretty obvious Lewis was managing the gap the whole time and the Mercs were just faster this race. Lewis had more pace left regardless of his radio messages. 

Yeah we don't need a standing restart at the very end of a full GP weekend. I think if we're gonna do standing restarts, maybe there should be a cutoff point beyond which you get a conventional rolling restart. A standing restart with 2 laps to go seems very NASCAR. Say ... last 10 laps, only rolling restarts.

Yeah I don't think Alonso was gonna get by, at least after the first red flag, due mostly to Merc's straightline speed advantage. Alonso could close up on Lewis in the twisty bits, but Lewis could pull back away on the straights. Before the first red flag, though, when people were running their original strategies, Alonso was closing on Lewis more rapidly and was just starting to push. He had more of an advantage then, but then the red flag put everyone on hards, having to try to make them last to the end. Pffft.

[Burt Macklin 18988]

1 hour ago, wood said:

Say ... last 10 laps, only rolling restarts.

Yeah, to me, this would’ve been the most fair. If they really felt like they needed a red flag, then do a rolling start, so you likely avoid most, if not all, of this chaos. That red flag made the previous 56 laps and basically the whole weekend pointless for a big chunk of the field.

[wood 11105]

9 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, to me, this would’ve been the most fair. If they really felt like they needed a red flag, then do a rolling start, so you likely avoid most, if not all, of this chaos. That red flag made the previous 56 laps and basically the whole weekend pointless for a big chunk of the field.

Exactly. A NASCAR-style lottery.

[ConferenceRoom 6123]

Anyone looking for why Lando is better than Lance need only look at this race. It’s called racecraft. 
 

Nice afternoon for Macca. Hopefully the updates streamline the car a bit. 

[Mittens 8147]

 

[Fastbreak 3948]

If Alonso actually had more pace, he would’ve got within DRS of Lewis at some point in the race. It was pretty obvious Lewis was managing the gap the whole time and the Mercs were just faster this race. Lewis had more pace left regardless of his radio messages. 

There was only a few laps left and he was 1.5s back. He wasn’t closing that gap.

[kevwun 15595]

They got it right at the end with the position order, but it's just so damn silly to make the drivers get in the car to run a safety car lap and end the race.

[wood 11105]

27 minutes ago, kevwun said:

They got it right at the end with the position order, but it's just so damn silly to make the drivers get in the car to run a safety car lap and end the race.

IIRC they used to end any race that was red flagged after 90% distance. The old ways are often underappreciated.
 

Edited April 2, 2023 by wood

[Hawndoh 2379]

I only now realized the Astons ended up 3rd and 4th.

I was fast forwarding through the red flags and didn't even bother to see the final lap under SC.

I assumed both Astons were way back after the chaos.

[kevwun 15595]

They were both out of the top 10 and so was Checo.  Would have been a crime to make that the finishing order.  If they had to have that last red flag, the race should have just ended.  A restart with two laps was guaranteed to cause a wreck.

Edited April 2, 2023 by kevwun

[wood 11105]

Like Max or not, he absolutely nailed it here, re: the constant fuckery with the format.

 

[kevwun 15595]

There needs to be a set procedure with no decision making involved.  It’s not that hard to come up with something that covers all the scenarios.  It’s like if the NFL did away with overtime rules and let tge refs decide when a score would end the game.

Edited April 2, 2023 by kevwun

[utee94 15742]

Holeeeschit

Just finished the race, still not sure about what I just watched..  I really can't believe the multiple red flags, especially the one at the end, and how it all ended, but I also think it would have been criminal for Fred NOT to have maintained his position.

Rules, man.  Or, not rules.  Or, whatever that was.

[G650 13990]

16 hours ago, wood said:

The old ways are often underappreciated.

Truth

[NoName 16271]

what's the point of George saying this kind of stuff?

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/04/03/russell-claims-red-bull-embarrassed-to-show-full-f1-potential/
 

Quote

 

“For sure they’re holding back,” Russell said via the BBC’s Chequered Flag podcast. “I think they are almost embarrassed to show their full potential because the faster they seem, the more that the sport is going to try and hold them back somehow.  

“I think realistically they probably have seven-tenths advantage over the rest of the field.  

“I don’t know what the pace difference looks like at the moment but Max has got no reason to be pushing it nor has Red Bull.

“They’ve done a really great job to be fair to them. We can’t take that away, and we clearly have to up our game.” 

 

if he was with literally any other car on the grid it would be one thing but MB absolutely has done this in the past.

[ConferenceRoom 6123]

The driver and his perspective soon parted. 

[Burt Macklin 18988]

35 minutes ago, NoName said:

what's the point of George saying this kind of stuff?

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/04/03/russell-claims-red-bull-embarrassed-to-show-full-f1-potential/
 

if he was with literally any other car on the grid it would be one thing but MB absolutely has done this in the past.

Merc is trying to call out RBs dominance in hopes the FIA/F1 nerf them with a new TD. 

[Mittens 8147]

I know a lot of F1 drama is self-created, but I'm surprised there's been no mention of the Mercedes team not showing up to the podium in support of Lewis.  

 

 

[wood 11105]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

what's the point of George saying this kind of stuff?

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/04/03/russell-claims-red-bull-embarrassed-to-show-full-f1-potential/
 

if he was with literally any other car on the grid it would be one thing but MB absolutely has done this in the past.

He's lobbying, working the refs. Of course Merc did this for a god chunk of this PU era. And others, too. After going to Williams, Paddy Lowe even described how Merc would run the PU at like 80% through Q1 & 2, and the big debate within the team would center around how much they'd turn it up for Q3, because they didn't want to give away how much of a power advantge they really had.

[Guest]

I was disappointed that GR had the engine failure. With his radio call about being attacked by Lewis and then pitting before the red flag, it was getting interesting.

 

[wood 11105]

1 hour ago, Mittens said:

I know a lot of F1 drama is self-created, but I'm surprised there's been no mention of the Mercedes team not showing up to the podium in support of Lewis.  

 

 

Anyone know the story? Where was the team, with George?

[Guest]

19 hours ago, wood said:

Like Max or not, he absolutely nailed it here, re: the constant fuckery with the format.

 

I feel like the only organization that gets this stuff right is The Masters. Every other league/organization is about milking all the money you can until you're degrading the experience. 

[Chewbacca 7727]

4 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I was disappointed that GR had the engine failure. With his radio call about being attacked by Lewis and then pitting before the red flag, it was getting interesting.

 

Lulz.  He wanted team orders that he's not going to get with Lewis being his teammate.  

[NoName 16271]

5 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Lulz.  He wanted team orders that he's not going to get with Lewis being his teammate.  

personally, i love the fact that MB has Lewis as their lead driver. if Lewis stays around for a few more years maybe GR will go elsewhere or will force their hand by beating Lewis in the same car.

if we are lucky we will get a v2 of Lewis/Nico.

[Chewbacca 7727]

4 minutes ago, NoName said:

personally, i love the fact that MB has Lewis as their lead driver. if Lewis stays around for a few more years maybe GR will go elsewhere or will force their hand by beating Lewis in the same car.

if we are lucky we will get a v2 of Lewis/Nico.

Yeah, I love that George is pushing Lewis, for sure.  I just thought his lobbying for team orders in the first few laps of the race was hilarious.

I'm loving seeing Fernando and Lewis get after it, too.  Now if we can just not have a Red Bull disappear into the distance for a race, that would be super.

Also hoping the Gasly/Ocon crash from yesterday heats up their rivalry.  

Edited April 3, 2023 by Chewbacca

[wood 11105]

12 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Lulz.  He wanted team orders that he's not going to get with Lewis being his teammate.  

That's not what his radio traffic actually indicated. He was asking why he was being told to manage tires, etc, while Lewis was attacking him. That's not the same as asking the team to tell Lewis to hold station.

[Chewbacca 7727]

1 minute ago, wood said:

That's not what his radio traffic actually indicated. He was asking why he was being told to manage tires, etc, while Lewis was attacking him. That's not the same as asking the team to tell Lewis to hold station.

That was my interpretation of what he said.  He wanted Lewis to stop attacking.

[Goofyboy 3156]

Anyone know the story? Where was the team, with George?

Apparently they were locking down everything in the garage. Some other garages had been looted when the fans stormed the track / locked access areas. They were stealing signs, equipment, and stuff from around the track.

[Goofyboy 3156]

Subject change - Alonso is apparently single now. Doesn’t seem to have messed up his driving.

[wood 11105]

35 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

That was my interpretation of what he said.  He wanted Lewis to stop attacking.

He said something like "Why are you telling me to manage while Lewis is attacking?" 

It's more akin to "If you want me to manage my tires, etc, cool. Then tell Lewis to do that, too. If you want to let Lewis attack, then I want to actually defend, not manage."

Edited April 3, 2023 by wood

[faps 806]

Was Lewis even attacking him? To his defense, Lewis had Max crawling up his ass.

[Chewbacca 7727]

1 minute ago, faps said:

Was Lewis even attacking him? To his defense, Lewis had Max crawling up his ass.

I think Lewis was just driving balls out trying to keep Max behind him as long as possible.

[wood 11105]

1 minute ago, faps said:

Was Lewis even attacking him? To his defense, Lewis had Max crawling up his ass.

Yeah I don't remember either way, but it was a valid question, even if that's why Lewis was advancing on him. He had no way to know what Max was doing. That's not lobbying the team to hold Lewis back.

[Buzzrock 14867]

Dumb question amnesty: I couldn’t watch the race, and the ESPN app says Max won with five fewer laps than Russell. How’s that?

[faps 806]

Must be a bug, Russell's motor blew up on Lap 18.

Edited April 3, 2023 by faps

[VABuckeye 2472]

Sainz got fucked.