Formula 1 2023

[PittsburghTiger 6137]

That was a lot of fun. Yeah, Max is so far ahead of everyone else right now but, the racing behind is the best we have seen in a long while.

I do have to laugh at all of the drivers tattling on other drivers for track limits, and I mean all of them, not just Hamilton.

As others have said a little rain would have made for awesome chaos.

I was glad to see McLaren not completely suck. It is crazy, mostly because the past decade, to see Mercedes fighting for positions 5-10. In the end though, ultimately good for the sport. Funny though to hear Toto come on and basically tell Hamilton to just shut up and drive.

That is the most beautiful track on the entire calendar. I have to get there. I did just talk to one of the Germans and told Pete that we have to take a driver there, for anything.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

Lewis so worked up that Toto has to come on and calm him down?

I've actually softened on Hamilton from the 2021 battle, but damn, how did he win 7 titles? On the radio he just has the mental strength of a wet noodle. It takes Toto coming on and telling him to essentially shut up and drive. And this is just about any race where things aren't going his way. What was the race where he wanted to quit like a quarter through and ended up in the points?

[RPM 26227]

6 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

but damn, how did he win 7 titles?

MB having such a huge tech advantage. Now RB does and Lewis whines.

[PittsburghTiger 6137]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:56 PM, utee94 said:

Amusing when the Sky team calls out-- fans keep saying "how hard is it to stay in the white lines" and then the drivers point out the problems.

No.  It's quite simple.

Consistent enforcement of and punishment of track limits violations, will ensure driver respect for the track limits.  These are (mostly) the best drivers in the world, they're failing on track limits because they intend to do so.  Punish them, enforce the limits consistently week after week and month after month, and the problem goes away.

Or, alternatively, move to my own personal preference of lava runoffs beyond every white line.

[Goofyboy 3204]

Aston is protesting the classifications. There were 100 or so deleted laps. They feel more penalties should happen - specifically to Norris and Gasley.

[Mittens 8155]

3 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Great racing for a change. 

Could watch them race in Austria every week.  Love that track.

[NoName 16296]

2 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

The level of hate people have for F1 drivers is awkward as hell. 

I just hate whiny bitches, F1 drivers or not.

[NoName 16296]

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I've actually softened on Hamilton from the 2021 battle, but damn, how did he win 7 titles? On the radio he just has the mental strength of a wet noodle. It takes Toto coming on and telling him to essentially shut up and drive. And this is just about any race where things aren't going his way. What was the race where he wanted to quit like a quarter through and ended up in the points?

This is how:

1 hour ago, RPM said:

MB having such a huge tech advantage. Now RB does and Lewis whines.

 

1 hour ago, Goofyboy said:

Aston is protesting the classifications. There were 100 or so deleted laps. They feel more penalties should happen - specifically to Norris and Gasley.

100 deleted laps? Why weren't there more penalties then?

[ConferenceRoom 6130]

9 minutes ago, NoName said:

I just hate whiny bitches, F1 drivers or not.

On a long enough timeline they’re all whiny bitches. 

[kevwun 15647]

Every single driver will complain at some point during a race.  They are all ultra competitive and get pissy when the car isn't perfect.  Multiple drivers were bitching about other drivers exceeding track limits while they were doing the same thing.  They behave like toddlers and it's best to just accept it

Edited July 2, 2023 by kevwun

[Hawndoh 2382]

Past history tells us that if they don't get on the radio and bitch then many times the stewards let stuff go unpunished.

So they have to bitch so that something will happen.

[VABuckeye 2472]

Penalties and standings have been revised.  Sainz dropped to 6th.  Ocon got 30 seconds of penalties.

[ConferenceRoom 6130]

Let’s see what Piastri can do with those updates. 

[Goofyboy 3204]

83 laps deleted. Ocon with 30seconds of penalties. Dude just made his own track.

[aggie08 21433]

6 hours ago, NoName said:

 

 

Saturday at Monaco was the field's best (only) chance to win a race with a functioning Red Bull in the field. Alonso almost got it done.

[wood 11148]

27 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Saturday at Monaco was the field's best (only) chance to win a race with a functioning Red Bull in the field. Alonso almost got it done.

There are still some where there's a chance. Hungary is next. There might be a chance at the Netherlands, Singapore, and Mexico City. Not saying it'll happen, but who knows?

Edited July 2, 2023 by wood

[wood 11148]

8 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

While I blame the drivers for all of these track limit violations, I don’t like it. It makes keeping track of the standings confusing. It’s like golf’s tour championship used to be. 

They know they're being watched, and yet they keep going off, like morons, then complaining when they're penalized for it. Fuck 'em. The line is the line.

8 hours ago, kevwun said:

It's silly to design tracks where doing it is a benefit.  The high speed corners here beg the drivers to do it.

I agree that ideally the track would automatically penalize any off-track excursion by slowing the car, like they used to. The FIA is keeping that from happening now though, not the track designers. In the absence of tracks that penalize the drivers, you either have to monitor the white line for violations & hand out penalties, or just let 'em have at it. We know where that road leads, with the drivers just going farther and farther off-track. Eventually they render the track's designed sfaety features useless. Not a great way to go. And it's just ugly.

3 hours ago, NoName said:

This is how:

100 deleted laps? Why weren't there more penalties then?

That was AM's question. I think race control and the stewards just got overwhelmed trying to keep up with all of the violations.

1 hour ago, VABuckeye said:

Penalties and standings have been revised.  Sainz dropped to 6th.  Ocon got 30 seconds of penalties.

And Lewis 15 total seconds. And the others. I mean, what in the actual fuck? 

Edited July 2, 2023 by wood

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

Past history tells us that if they don't get on the radio and bitch then many times the stewards let stuff go unpunished.

So they have to bitch so that something will happen.

100% agreed.

But to the point that the team principal has to come on the radio and tell you to quit whining and drive the race car?

[VABuckeye 2472]

Yeah, I liked Toto's "shut the fuck up and drive Lewis".

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

33 minutes ago, wood said:

There are still some where there's a chance. Hungary is next. There might be a chance at the Netherlands, Singapore, and Mexico City. Not saying it'll happen, but who knows?

Mechanical failure will be the only way Max loses this year. Either because of a starting grid penalty for new parts or a DNF. 
 

Would kill to see Lewis V Fred V Max all in the red bull. 

[kevwun 15647]

The starting grid penalty will have to be on a track where passing is difficult.  On a track like Austria, he could start in last and still win.

[Dutch 4465]

Damn entertaining race that one, plenty of good battles. I”m more down with Sprint weekends after this one. Oh, and Crofty’s Top Gear “our tame racing driver” reference was awesome. 

[blacklab 11850]

I'd bet if there were grass or pebbles 3 feet past the white line on turn 10 no one would be getting a penalty there and Lewis' car would decide to stay on the track

[wood 11148]

1 minute ago, blacklab said:

I'd bet if there were grass or pebbles 3 feet past the white line on turn 10 no one would be getting a penalty there and Lewis' car would decide to stay on the track

Absolutely. You wouldn't need penalties. It would be self-policing. The drivers would somehow manage to rarely go off.

[deft 6800]

Lost in translation I know, but I chucked hearing sainz “being intimidated”


He had a hell of a showing through the first few laps and I really did believe him this time that charl was holding him back.

[elfenix 34171]

everyone: max is going for fastest lap!

feed director: charles is closing the gap!

everyone: MAX IS GOING FOR FASTEST LAP!

feed director: let's hide the helicopter behind a hill!

[Burt Macklin 18998]

2 hours ago, deft said:

Lost in translation I know, but I chucked hearing sainz “being intimidated”


He had a hell of a showing through the first few laps and I really did believe him this time that charl was holding him back.

Leclerc had slightly better pace in every other stint so I think it’s more likely Leclerc was saving tires early while Sainz was pushing because he knew he had to pass his teammate to have a good race. Plus, Sainz violated track limits 5 times in his first 14 laps trying to push Leclerc, so his imaginary faster pace was completely unsustainable and led to him getting two penalties that dropped him down to 6th. 

[RPM 26227]

According to the stewards, the retrospective penalties have been applied as follows:

For four infringements, a five-second time penalty; for five infringements, a 10-second time penalty.

Then a “reset” has been allowed due to the excessive number of infringements. The counting of infringements restarts. After another four infringements, a five-second time penalty will apply; after five, a 10-second time penalty.

The stewards also added that they “very strongly recommend” that a solution be found to the track limits at the Spielberg circuit.

The penalties imposed after the race in full are as follows:

Carlos Sainz – 10-second time penalty
Lewis Hamilton – 10-second time penalty
Pierre Gasly – 10-second time penalty
Alex Albon – 10-second time penalty
Esteban Ocon – 5-second time penalty
Esteban Ocon – 10-second time penalty
Esteban Ocon – 5-second time penalty
Esteban Ocon – 10-second time penalty (30 seconds in total for Ocon)
Logan Sargeant – 10-second time penalty
Nyck de Vries – 10-second time penalty
Nyck de Vries – 5-second time penalty (15 seconds in total for De Vries)
Yuki Tsunoda – 5-second time penalty

The Austrian Grand Prix results are now as follows:

Max Verstappen
Charles Leclerc
Sergio Perez
Lando Norris (up from P5)
Fernando Alonso (up from P6)
Carlos Sainz (demoted from P4)
George Russell (up from P8)
Lewis Hamilton (demoted from P7)
Lance Stroll (up from P10)
Pierre Gasly (demoted from P9)
Alex Albon (penalty, but no movement in position)
Zhou Guanyu (up from P14)
Logan Sargeant (penalty, but no movement in position)
Esteban Ocon (demoted from P12)
Valtteri Bottas (up from P16)
Oscar Piastri (up from P17)
Nyck de Vries (demoted from P15)
Kevin Magnussen (up from P19)
Yuki Tsunoda (demoted from P18)

[WithoutAClue 15218]

[Goofyboy 3204]

I saw Albon in an interview saying that they told him on lap 20 he had a warning, so he was more careful on lap 21, another warning and then more careful on lap 22 and he had a penalty - even though he didn’t exceed track limits on lap 22. It was apparently from 15 laps earlier. He wants quicker notification of an issue.

[NoName 16296]

2 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

I saw Albon in an interview saying that they told him on lap 20 he had a warning, so he was more careful on lap 21, another warning and then more careful on lap 22 and he had a penalty - even though he didn’t exceed track limits on lap 22. It was apparently from 15 laps earlier. He wants quicker notification of an issue.

see that is one of the things i don't fully understand. it's a automated system that shows when they go outside of the white lines, so why is it 15 laps later?

if you can't catch it close to real time there is no place to retroactively smoke these guys on the rules. if you can't solve it DURING the race, it needs to be pretty egregious to me for penalties to be assigned well after the race is over (think: cheating on vehicles - not something that happened during the race)

 

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

40 minutes ago, NoName said:

see that is one of the things i don't fully understand. it's a automated system that shows when they go outside of the white lines, so why is it 15 laps later?

if you can't catch it close to real time there is no place to retroactively smoke these guys on the rules. if you can't solve it DURING the race, it needs to be pretty egregious to me for penalties to be assigned well after the race is over (think: cheating on vehicles - not something that happened during the race)

 

Needs to flash on their steering wheel like a yellow flag each time they exceed limits. 

[Burt Macklin 18998]

44 minutes ago, NoName said:

see that is one of the things i don't fully understand. it's a automated system that shows when they go outside of the white lines, so why is it 15 laps later?

if you can't catch it close to real time there is no place to retroactively smoke these guys on the rules. if you can't solve it DURING the race, it needs to be pretty egregious to me for penalties to be assigned well after the race is over (think: cheating on vehicles - not something that happened during the race)

 

Track limits isn’t automated. It’s literally people at the steward’s office watching camera angles to see if all four wheels were outside the white lines. 

[NoName 16296]

9 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Track limits isn’t automated. It’s literally people at the steward’s office watching camera angles to see if all four wheels were outside the white lines. 

got on idea where i read it was fully automated. from The Race article:

Quote

It has more human resources at its disposal this year to monitor transgressions, with nine personnel across race control and the remote operations centre in Geneva. A mix of automatic loops and fixed, zoomed-in cameras being monitored by these personnel are used to note offences and refer them to the stewards.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by NoName

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

Track limits isn’t automated. It’s literally people at the steward’s office watching camera angles to see if all four wheels were outside the white lines. 

Broadcast team said it was triggered by sensors and automated. I have no idea if true or not. 
 

*looks like they still use humans to confirm 

found from 2016

New track limit sensors split opinion among F1 drivers
 

https://f1i.com/news/64639-new-track-limit-sensors-split-opinions-among-drivers.html/amp

Edited July 3, 2023 by ChickenSandwich

[kevwun 15647]

3/4 of the field was doing it consistently, so I can understand how they were behind.

[utee94 15745]

The drivers know when they're doing it, and they're doing it intentionally to gain an advantage.  I don't have any sympathy for them if they're not warned in real time.  They just don't like getting caught.  Too bad.

 

 

[elfenix 34171]

And Lewis 15 total seconds. And the others. I mean, what in the actual fuck? 

Actually the FIA wants gravel traps out there

“In order to address the issue for future events we will renew our recommendation to the circuit to add a gravel trap at the exit of Turns 9 and 10.

“We note that while this is not a straightforward solution in relation to other series that race here, it has proved to be very effective at other corners and circuits with similar issues.”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/austrian-grand-prix-results-doubt-190700218.html

[kevwun 15647]

As others have already pointed out, that will immediately fix the issue.  Cars will magically be able to stay on track if there's not a nice level track surface to run out on to.

[Guest]

Here's the solution. Done. Where's my consulting fee?

[wood 11148]

53 minutes ago, elfenix said:

Actually the FIA wants gravel traps out there

“In order to address the issue for future events we will renew our recommendation to the circuit to add a gravel trap at the exit of Turns 9 and 10.

“We note that while this is not a straightforward solution in relation to other series that race here, it has proved to be very effective at other corners and circuits with similar issues.”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/austrian-grand-prix-results-doubt-190700218.html

Yep, they've recently come back around to wanting gravel traps in some places, but the tarmac runoff is there because they mandated it a few years ago. And then there's MotoGP, who doesn't want the gravel. 

[Guest]

Anyone have any data on this year when it comes to reliability and crashes?

Seems like it's been an amazing year for reliability, but I also feel like there haven't been that many major incidents (knock on wood, 1 year anniversary of Zhou's scary crash). Lap 1 incidents have seemed very minimal. Seems like everyone is comfortable letting things sort out and then try passing later in the race.

[wood 11148]

2 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

I saw Albon in an interview saying that they told him on lap 20 he had a warning, so he was more careful on lap 21, another warning and then more careful on lap 22 and he had a penalty - even though he didn’t exceed track limits on lap 22. It was apparently from 15 laps earlier. He wants quicker notification of an issue.

2 hours ago, NoName said:

see that is one of the things i don't fully understand. it's a automated system that shows when they go outside of the white lines, so why is it 15 laps later?

if you can't catch it close to real time there is no place to retroactively smoke these guys on the rules. if you can't solve it DURING the race, it needs to be pretty egregious to me for penalties to be assigned well after the race is over (think: cheating on vehicles - not something that happened during the race)

 

2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Needs to flash on their steering wheel like a yellow flag each time they exceed limits. 

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

Track limits isn’t automated. It’s literally people at the steward’s office watching camera angles to see if all four wheels were outside the white lines. 

Exactly. It's not automated as Burt said. And with the incredible volume of guys going off there, there's no way for the stewards/race control to react that quickly.

A physical deterrent is the best solution, but there are complications with other series racing there. Next would be an automated system of transponders, etc ... an invisible fence that alerts every time a car exceeds the limit, but nobody wants to pay for it.

There's a crowd out there complaining that it's impossible for the drivers to consistently get that corner right due to lack of visibilty or 'gee whiz, they're trying so hard to go fast', etc. If that's the case, then how did Zhou, Russell, Alonso, and Max only go off track 2 times between the 4 of them for the entire race. Were they just incredibly lucky?

[wood 11148]

3 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Anyone have any data on this year when it comes to reliability and crashes?

Seems like it's been an amazing year for reliability, but I also feel like there haven't been that many major incidents (knock on wood, 1 year anniversary of Zhou's scary crash). Lap 1 incidents have seemed very minimal. Seems like everyone is comfortable letting things sort out and then try passing later in the race.

That's one of the negative effects of DRS. Fuck DRS.

[kevwun 15647]

Alonso and Max are actually race car driving robots, so they shouldn't be counted.

Edited July 3, 2023 by kevwun

[wood 11148]

 

[VABuckeye 2472]

19 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Anyone have any data on this year when it comes to reliability and crashes?

Seems like it's been an amazing year for reliability, but I also feel like there haven't been that many major incidents (knock on wood, 1 year anniversary of Zhou's scary crash). Lap 1 incidents have seemed very minimal. Seems like everyone is comfortable letting things sort out and then try passing later in the race.

I want Ferrari to go back to engine grenade mode.  At least then they were easily competitive with Red Bull.  It's just last year that LeClerc was running laps around the field at Catalunya before his engine went boom.  Same with Sainz in another race when he was tracking Verstappen down before his engine exploded.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, wood said:

That's one of the negative effects of DRS. Fuck DRS.

I like it. I feel like without the races would be more boring. It does need some tweaking here and there.

[kevwun 15647]

10 minutes ago, wood said:

 

I don't think people appreciate just how incredibly complicated and expensive a system like that would be to implement.  You are talking about monitoring the position of the cars and the white line that is miles long at all times while needing to be accurate within a fraction of an inch.

Edited July 3, 2023 by kevwun

[utee94 15745]

19 minutes ago, wood said:

That's one of the negative effects of DRS. Fuck DRS.

Yeah I really do get why they implemented DRS, but I still hate it.

 

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I like it. I feel like without the races would be more boring. It does need some tweaking here and there.

It's just way too powerful at many tracks.  Passing shouldn't be easy, but at some tracks, with DRS, it becomes an absolute certainty.  And I find THAT to be boring.