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Formula 1 2023

Anton Chigurh

By Anton Chigurh
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PittsburghTiger
PittsburghTiger

So, we ran a few errands here, outside the Black Forest and got back to the house and I started thinking (usually dangerous) “I think I will look again for tickets for Sunday”, And I’ll be damned. Fuc

elfenix
elfenix

Next special livery for the Williams https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-reveal-special-gulf-livery-chosen-by-f1-fan-vote/10494807/

Mittens
Mittens

So people can see w/o clicking:  

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wood

wood 11747

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Native Horn said:

Man, Martin's walk gives me anxiety every time he does it, but I can't stop watching.

I really liked Bernie on the grid walk the other day. She asked the best questions that have been asked in a long time.

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wood

wood 11747

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I had a little twitter chat just now with MotoGP reporter Simon Patterson about MotoGP's supposed objection to gravel traps. Here's how it went, if you're interested. (spoilered)

 

Spoiler

 

So I'm guessing it's something like a paved strip that's not wide enough for an F1 car to exceed the limit and still keep its outside wheels on the track, adjacent to a gravel trap.

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VABuckeye

VABuckeye 2481

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2 hours ago, wood said:

I really liked Bernie on the grid walk the other day. She asked the best questions that have been asked in a long time.

I'm a fan of Berinie.  I know people struggle with that Northern Ireland lilt at times but since they seem to have adjusted her mike she has become somewhat easier to understand.  She's a soft spoken woman.

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dieucla98

dieucla98 2954

Posted
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Bernie is bad ass. Easily the best color commentary on the broadcast.

I think her first race was a bit rough - you could tell she wasn't comfortable but that she had a wealth of knowledge and insight.  Now she's all around awesome.

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NoName

NoName 17124

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1 hour ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I like her. she's extremely knowledgeable while at the same time not interested in just hearing herself speak.

 

1 hour ago, VABuckeye said:

I'm a fan of Berinie.  I know people struggle with that Northern Ireland lilt at times but since they seem to have adjusted her mike she has become somewhat easier to understand.  She's a soft spoken woman.

i think she is a great addition to the group/team. hope they keep her long term, unless she goes back to a team.

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NoName

NoName 17124

Posted
Posted

currently 9 min into watching FP1 and they are talking about how the momentum has shifted away from George "since the upgrades brought to Canada" - George had a DNF and was running 4th before then. he then finished 7th at Austria. Lewis finished 3rd at Canada and 8th at Austria lol

then they talk about how hard it so keep up with Lewis for a whole season and how basically lucky George was last year. Karun pointed out how hard it was and how he doesn't get enough credit (and he doesn't)

in 2022 he beat Lewis by 35 points. his finishes outside the top 5: a DNF at Silverstone, #14 in Singapore. that's it.

meanwhile, in the same car, Lewis finishes outside the top 5: 10 at Sautia Arabia, 13 at Emilia Romagna, 6 at Miami, 8 at Monaco, DNF at Belgium, 9 at Singapore, DNF at Abu Dhabi.

Lewis was lucky it was only 35 points difference. Lewis had more points after Bahrain and never had more points the entire rest of the year. It was a very close qualification comparison and Lewis actually out qualified him 12-10 but still somehow lost by 35 points.

WE GET IT. Lewis was great. But George has been better basically since he stepped into the car. If you look at races where both finished this year Lewis has a lead 73-72 lol

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19221

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11 minutes ago, NoName said:

currently 9 min into watching FP1 and they are talking about how the momentum has shifted away from George "since the upgrades brought to Canada" - George had a DNF and was running 4th before then. he then finished 7th at Austria. Lewis finished 3rd at Canada and 8th at Austria lol

then they talk about how hard it so keep up with Lewis for a whole season and how basically lucky George was last year. Karun pointed out how hard it was and how he doesn't get enough credit (and he doesn't)

in 2022 he beat Lewis by 35 points. his finishes outside the top 5: a DNF at Silverstone, #14 in Singapore. that's it.

meanwhile, in the same car, Lewis finishes outside the top 5: 10 at Sautia Arabia, 13 at Emilia Romagna, 6 at Miami, 8 at Monaco, DNF at Belgium, 9 at Singapore, DNF at Abu Dhabi.

Lewis was lucky it was only 35 points difference. Lewis had more points after Bahrain and never had more points the entire rest of the year. It was a very close qualification comparison and Lewis actually out qualified him 12-10 but still somehow lost by 35 points.

WE GET IT. Lewis was great. But George has been better basically since he stepped into the car. If you look at races where both finished this year Lewis has a lead 73-72 lol

This is wrong in a bunch of ways, but the biggest thing you ignored was Lewis running a ton of experimental setups the first half of last year that had him way off the pace. Once he quit doing that, his pace was better than George last year, and that has continued into this year. Not to mention that George struggles with wheel to wheel racing and has shown a history of being quite clumsy in close quarters. Lewis is still a better driver than George, and it’s pretty obvious if you pay attention to more than just race finishes/points without any other context. 

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NoName

NoName 17124

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4 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

This is wrong in a bunch of ways, but the biggest thing you ignored was Lewis running a ton of experimental setups the first half of last year that had him way off the pace. Once he quit doing that, his pace was better than George last year, and that has continued into this year. Not to mention that George struggles with wheel to wheel racing and has shown a history of being quite clumsy in close quarters. Lewis is still a better driver than George, and it’s pretty obvious if you pay attention to more than just race finishes/points without any other context. 

went back and did the last 10 races they both finished last year and it was much closer 154-147 in favor of George

if he is obviously the better driver why isn't he actually...doing much better then? take the last 10 races they finished last year and the last 7 races they finished this year, so 17 total races and George has 6 more points. take the 7 this year and he has 1 more point.

in quali, they were the closest between all teammates last year IIRC, and they were one of the closest gaps in race pace which used fastest race laps last year i've seen using the f1teammatecomparison app (RIP)

this year it's more of the same. so no, i don't think it is "pretty obvious" that Lewis is better based on almost 1.5 seasons of results at this point. at least none of the results or outcomes show that is the case.

 

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Goofyboy

Goofyboy 3428

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Again - you are looking at just points scored. That does not tell the whole story. George is not the better driver. Lewis had some shit luck with safety cars and pit timing. The Team ran different strategies for the cars.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19221

Posted
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23 minutes ago, NoName said:

went back and did the last 10 races they both finished last year and it was much closer 154-147 in favor of George

if he is obviously the better driver why isn't he actually...doing much better then? take the last 10 races they finished last year and the last 7 races they finished this year, so 17 total races and George has 6 more points. take the 7 this year and he has 1 more point.

in quali, they were the closest between all teammates last year IIRC, and they were one of the closest gaps in race pace which used fastest race laps last year i've seen using the f1teammatecomparison app (RIP)

this year it's more of the same. so no, i don't think it is "pretty obvious" that Lewis is better based on almost 1.5 seasons of results at this point. at least none of the results or outcomes show that is the case.

 

Because points don’t explain the whole story. There were also a bunch of times where Lewis had a significant pace advantage but only our scored George by 2 points because the Merc was the clear 3rd fastest car and there was no 4th team that was even close, so Lewis rinsing his teammate didn’t make a big point difference. Any points comparison of teammates who don’t have a car capable of winning races will be largely due to luck and circumstances outside of their control, because being better than your teammate gets you a 2 point advantage, while having bad luck can lead to a 12 point deficit in a single race. The same thing happened with Charles against Sainz in 2021. Leclerc was clearly much faster and the better driver, but Sainz scored more and a bunch of people tried to say he was better than Leclerc. Then Ferrari had a top 2 car in 2022, and Leclerc showed he was clearly better and our scored Sainz while having worse reliability and strategy than Sainz. 
 

I know you like to rely heavily on data, but you’re going full Ian Boyd in this thread by only focusing on the points and ignoring every other factor. 

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NoName

NoName 17124

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24 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Again - you are looking at just points scored. That does not tell the whole story. George is not the better driver. Lewis had some shit luck with safety cars and pit timing. The Team ran different strategies for the cars.

7 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Because points don’t explain the whole story. There were also a bunch of times where Lewis had a significant pace advantage but only our scored George by 2 points because the Merc was the clear 3rd fastest car and there was no 4th team that was even close, so Lewis rinsing his teammate didn’t make a big point difference. Any points comparison of teammates who don’t have a car capable of winning races will be largely due to luck and circumstances outside of their control, because being better than your teammate gets you a 2 point advantage, while having bad luck can lead to a 12 point deficit in a single race. The same thing happened with Charles against Sainz in 2021. Leclerc was clearly much faster and the better driver, but Sainz scored more and a bunch of people tried to say he was better than Leclerc. Then Ferrari had a top 2 car in 2022, and Leclerc showed he was clearly better and our scored Sainz while having worse reliability and strategy than Sainz. 
 

I know you like to rely heavily on data, but you’re going full Ian Boyd in this thread by only focusing on the points and ignoring every other factor. 

i can't pull the numbers any more but based on what i think is their top 10% fastest laps they were extremely extremely extremely close in both race pace (top 10% i think?) and quali pace (dry laps only) last season. like the closest i have seen in a lot of time looking around the tool before it got killed. they were SUPER close across the board.

i can agree there is a lot more to the story than just numbers, but the results are the results.

idk how you can look at the results and races and say it is "pretty obvious" Driver A is better than Driver B when i don't see it being "obvious" at all or that the gap is huge. not saying that GR is way better or is better today or will have a better career. and i am recognizing that i am new ish to the sport and that i do dig into the data/am a data person over an eyes only person.

obviously there is a lot that goes there on who is the "better driver" beyond just #s and i will agree with that comment. again, not saying that Lewis is shit. George is very good. Lewis is (still) very good.

that ian boyd comment though, seriously. can't believe you said that :(

sad stephen colbert GIF by The Late Show With Stephen Colbert

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1 hour ago, Mittens said:

IDC if it's only P1, but I'm stoked for Alex this weekend.  If he somehow manages a podium on home soil, I might spontaneously combust.

I seriously love me some Williams. Albon might have something to do with it. Seems like a good dude. 

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19221

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1 hour ago, NoName said:

i can't pull the numbers any more but based on what i think is their top 10% fastest laps they were extremely extremely extremely close in both race pace (top 10% i think?) and quali pace (dry laps only) last season. like the closest i have seen in a lot of time looking around the tool before it got killed. they were SUPER close across the board.

i can agree there is a lot more to the story than just numbers, but the results are the results.

idk how you can look at the results and races and say it is "pretty obvious" Driver A is better than Driver B when i don't see it being "obvious" at all or that the gap is huge. not saying that GR is way better or is better today or will have a better career. and i am recognizing that i am new ish to the sport and that i do dig into the data/am a data person over an eyes only person.

obviously there is a lot that goes there on who is the "better driver" beyond just #s and i will agree with that comment. again, not saying that Lewis is shit. George is very good. Lewis is (still) very good.

that ian boyd comment though, seriously. can't believe you said that :(

sad stephen colbert GIF by The Late Show With Stephen Colbert

Hey, any time I can compare someone to Ian Boyd, I go for it because it might be the most insulting comparison known to man, besides Ketch’s physique, of course. 

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Goofyboy

Goofyboy 3428

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I seriously love me some Williams. Albon might have something to do with it. Seems like a good dude. 

I got to tell him good luck in Canada and he acknowledged me and said “Thank you.” He did however miss my attempt at a fist bump. He loses a point, so 9/10 good dude / nice guy.

He did take pics with some fans until his handler pulled him away.
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Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, utee94 said:

I think I can settle this dspute:

Screw Lewis, Screw George, Screw Toto, Screw Mercedes

The End

 

 

I think Lewis is an amazing driver, but holy shit is he a whiner. Silverstone in 2021 also still rubs me the wrong way.
George I'm on the fence about. Liked him before, but the more I hear from him, the less I care for him. Can't put my finger on it.
I think Toto is awesome. No notes.
I think Mercedes is a great team and love the drive/professionalism the team seems to display. They are the complete opposite of HAAS. 

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utee94

utee94 16071

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Posted (edited)

Toto = Christian.  They are not even opposite sides of the same coin, they're the same side of the same coin.  I find it amusing that people like one, and not the other.

Not commenting on you specifically, FTC, I have no idea how you feel about Horner.

I just see a chunk of Mercedes fanbois acting like Toto is somehow better or different than Horner.

But no, he's not.

And I take immense pleasure in watching Toto descend into pettiness now that his team doesn't have the best car by far.  Just as it was amusing watching Horner twist in the wind after the last dominating cycle of RBR ended.

It sure would be great to see some OTHER team have some prolonged success and knock both of those assholes off their perch.

Edited by utee94
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Mittens

Mittens 8647

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I love them both - completely agree they're the same side of the same coin.  Smug pricks who can't be bothered when their car is out front and rabid donkeys when someone else is.  Fucking shitheels and perfect for F1.

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7827

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currently 9 min into watching FP1 and they are talking about how the momentum has shifted away from George "since the upgrades brought to Canada" - George had a DNF and was running 4th before then. he then finished 7th at Austria. Lewis finished 3rd at Canada and 8th at Austria lol
then they talk about how hard it so keep up with Lewis for a whole season and how basically lucky George was last year. Karun pointed out how hard it was and how he doesn't get enough credit (and he doesn't)
in 2022 he beat Lewis by 35 points. his finishes outside the top 5: a DNF at Silverstone, #14 in Singapore. that's it.
meanwhile, in the same car, Lewis finishes outside the top 5: 10 at Sautia Arabia, 13 at Emilia Romagna, 6 at Miami, 8 at Monaco, DNF at Belgium, 9 at Singapore, DNF at Abu Dhabi.
Lewis was lucky it was only 35 points difference. Lewis had more points after Bahrain and never had more points the entire rest of the year. It was a very close qualification comparison and Lewis actually out qualified him 12-10 but still somehow lost by 35 points.
WE GET IT. Lewis was great. But George has been better basically since he stepped into the car. If you look at races where both finished this year Lewis has a lead 73-72 lol
George was better last year, but Lewis has been better this year.
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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7827

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I think Lewis is an amazing driver, but holy shit is he a whiner. Silverstone in 2021 also still rubs me the wrong way.
George I'm on the fence about. Liked him before, but the more I hear from him, the less I care for him. Can't put my finger on it.
I think Toto is awesome. No notes.
I think Mercedes is a great team and love the drive/professionalism the team seems to display. They are the complete opposite of HAAS. 
Does Abu Dhabi 2021 also rub you the wrong way? If not, you just don't like Lewis.

George has whined way more than Lewis this year.
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deft

deft 7048

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I got to tell him good luck in Canada and he acknowledged me and said “Thank you.” He did however miss my attempt at a fist bump. He loses a point, so 9/10 good dude / nice guy.

He did take pics with some fans until his handler pulled him away.

Tbf, they race him so hard.
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utee94

utee94 16071

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54 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Same. It’s on demand on ESPN app

Ugh, but I can't watch it because it originally aired on ESPNU and my app knows I don't have a subscription to that.  Same has been true for P1 and P2. 

Luckily qualy is on ESPN2, not the U.

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