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Formula 1 2023

Anton Chigurh

By Anton Chigurh
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wood

wood 11,747

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Posted (edited)

Domenicali wants to award a Grand Slam on Sprint weekends, but the actual interesting stuff is 3/4 through the article. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-considering-grand-slam-idea-for-sprint-races-in-2024/10495641/?_ga=2.199457958.983942087.1689044141-350596123.1678063326

From the article:

Quote

It is understood that areas being looked at are if the tyre allocation or parc ferme rules should be changed, and even whether the flow of the weekends are shaken up to build momentum better towards Sunday’s race.

At the moment, Saturdays at a sprint race weekend are completely standalone, with sprint qualifying in the morning and the shorter race in the afternoon.

One idea that has been suggested by some team bosses is for Friday qualifying at sprint weekends to decide the grid for the sprint race, which would take place on Saturday morning rather than in the afternoon. Then Saturday afternoon would be devoted to qualifying for the actual grand prix itself.

Wow. Team bosses? That's exactly what I said back in April that they should do:

Quote

Why have they put GP Qualifying on Friday, before Sprint Qualifying and the Sprint?
 
It seems to me that ...

 Fri: FP, Sprint Qualifying
Sat: Sprint Race, GP Qualifying
Sun: GP

 ... makes far more sense. Then you could have parc ferme from the start of Sprint Q until the start of the Sprint, then open it until the start of GP Qualifying. It also prevents you from having two Qualifying sessions back to back with the cars in parc ferme the whole time, allowing for more variability between the Sprint portion of the weekend and the GP portion.

 

Edited by wood
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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19,221

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Considering that sustainable fuels are already capable of guaranteeing carbon neutral engines by themselves, is there still a need to have power units as complex as the current ones? “Personally I think not. Today we are in a transition phase, the big manufacturers need to develop hybrid and electric technologies as they are part of their sales portfolio, but I believe that, if we do a good job with sustainable fuels, we will be able to have simplified engines and with less impact on weight. It's something we'll start thinking about soon."

 

jizz in my pants GIF

 

 

Edited by Burt Macklin
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wood

wood 11,747

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Dude finally talking some sense. For 10 years I've been saying there's still plenty of valuable knowledge to be gained just from the ICE path alone, improving combustion efficiency, using alternative fuels including Hydrogen, etc. On Autosport I was always met with a chorus of "ICE is dead tech", "Full EV is the only way forward and the only avenue worth exploring", etc. Complete and utter nonsense. It's crazy to put all of our eggs in the EV basket.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19,221

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Posted
3 minutes ago, wood said:

Dude finally talking some sense. For 10 years I've been saying there's still plenty of valuable knowledge to be gained just from the ICE path alone, improving combustion efficiency, using alternative fuels including Hydrogen, etc. On Autosport I was always met with a chorus of "ICE is dead tech", "Full EV is the only way forward and the only avenue worth exploring", etc. Complete and utter nonsense. It's crazy to put all of our eggs in the EV basket.

Yeah, and I don’t give a fuck if EV is the future. It makes for shitty racing. Formula1 is a Motorsport first and foremost. And I agree that sustainabile fuels and other ICE tech could still make a massive impact. 

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wood

wood 11,747

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3 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, and I don’t give a fuck if EV is the future. It makes for shitty racing. Formula1 is a Motorsport first and foremost. And I agree that sustainabile fuels and other ICE tech could still make a massive impact. 

1000%.

Just look at the ICE advances that have been made during this MGU-H era in F1, when all the while ICE tech was supposedly a dead end. 

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wood

wood 11,747

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I predicted live, on-screen, sports biometric telemetry 30 years ago when I was an AFD rookie. I think it's already in use now in (?) MotoGP. It's been available for a long time, and Brazilian tv even used it back in 1994 from time to time covering Senna. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-admits-need-to-be-careful-over-heart-rate-tv-graphics-plan/10495859/?_ga=2.2799160.983942087.1689044141-350596123.1678063326

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ConferenceRoom

ConferenceRoom 6,213

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Posted
1 hour ago, wood said:

I predicted live, on-screen, sports biometric telemetry 30 years ago when I was an AFD rookie. I think it's already in use now in (?) MotoGP. It's been available for a long time, and Brazilian tv even used it back in 1994 from time to time covering Senna. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-admits-need-to-be-careful-over-heart-rate-tv-graphics-plan/10495859/?_ga=2.2799160.983942087.1689044141-350596123.1678063326

Yeah his heart rate was stuck on 150 or something like that when he was stuck in sixth gear in Brazil. 

"Don't touch me!" - Senna

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NoName

NoName 17,114

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53 minutes ago, wood said:

Looks like the FIA will approve Andretti and leave the ball in F1's court, like I said they would, which imho makes for an interesting problem for the teams and FOM imho.

 

this entire thing is too complex. pulled from reddit comments. now i want this to happen!

image.png.56dbaa3b809de9a45879dd5238526d26.png

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19,221

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3 hours ago, wood said:

Looks like the FIA will approve Andretti and leave the ball in F1's court, like I said they would, which imho makes for an interesting problem for the teams and FOM imho.

 

Andretti and Hitec are both legit entries with tons of experience in Motorsport and big money backing. It’s so stupid they aren’t being green lot immediately. 

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wood

wood 11,747

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3 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

Andretti and Hitec are both legit entries with tons of experience in Motorsport and big money backing. It’s so stupid they aren’t being green lot immediately. 

100% correct.

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elfenix

elfenix 34,662

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Posted
On 7/15/2023 at 10:48 AM, Burt Macklin said:

 

Considering that sustainable fuels are already capable of guaranteeing carbon neutral engines by themselves, is there still a need to have power units as complex as the current ones? “Personally I think not. Today we are in a transition phase, the big manufacturers need to develop hybrid and electric technologies as they are part of their sales portfolio, but I believe that, if we do a good job with sustainable fuels, we will be able to have simplified engines and with less impact on weight. It's something we'll start thinking about soon."

 

jizz in my pants GIF

 

 

can we leave the loud in the past kthxbai

 

On 7/17/2023 at 11:15 AM, wood said:

I predicted live, on-screen, sports biometric telemetry 30 years ago when I was an AFD rookie. I think it's already in use now in (?) MotoGP. It's been available for a long time, and Brazilian tv even used it back in 1994 from time to time covering Senna. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-admits-need-to-be-careful-over-heart-rate-tv-graphics-plan/10495859/?_ga=2.2799160.983942087.1689044141-350596123.1678063326

pretty sure i saw heart rates on an indy 500 broadcast a couple decades ago. 

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wood

wood 11,747

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10 hours ago, NoName said:

this entire thing is too complex. pulled from reddit comments. now i want this to happen!

So the interpretation is that Andretti can race without signing the Concorde agreement which means they forfeit prize money but can compete. F1 can freeze them out financially which would be awkward to present every race weekend given their grid presence. 

Refusing to admit them or pay them sounds like a bold strategy, Cotton, and could possibly end up in a costly lawsuit for Liberty. Of course, I'm no lawyer like most of the Surl is, but one thing the US has is plenty of lawyers. Some of them are even good - even some of the Surly lawyers, or so I'm told ...

 

This is the showdown I've been waiting for. It'll be really interesting to see how it all shakes out.

I keep hearing from some that F1 and the teams still hold all the cards, but I don't really believe that.

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NoName

NoName 17,114

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15 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

Andretti and Hitec are both legit entries with tons of experience in Motorsport and big money backing. It’s so stupid they aren’t being green lot immediately. 

i think ultimately this is the mistake they are making. instead of saying there is only room for 1 new team on the grid - they didn't. now they are getting 2.

so fuck em. i hope there are 30 cars on the grid in a few years.

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NoName

NoName 17,114

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7 hours ago, wood said:

I keep hearing from some that F1 and the teams still hold all the cards, but I don't really believe that.

i think this is the worst case scenario for F1 as a whole group

they can pay the $200m and get approved - but if the teams don't approve them then they can potentially compete and be on the grid/in races but F1 can't show them? and they can't advertise they are in F1?

it's dumb. the teams should have focused on 1 super strong contender and gone with that and now they are getting +2 teams because they are idiots.

no new teams but sure, let's keep Gene fucking Haas around please.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19,221

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5 minutes ago, NoName said:

they can pay the $200m and get approved - but if the teams don't approve them then they can potentially compete and be on the grid/in races but F1 can't show them? and they can't advertise they are in F1?

Not quite. The $200 million is the fee to pay F1 in the Concorde Agreement, which they want to raise to $600 million or more. Getting approved by the FIA doesn’t require paying $200 million. 

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NoName

NoName 17,114

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2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Not quite. The $200 million is the fee to pay F1 in the Concorde Agreement, which they want to raise to $600 million or more. Getting approved by the FIA doesn’t require paying $200 million. 

ahhh ok, just want to have a clear understanding of this...at a high level haha

  • potential new teams submit entry requests
  • FIA reviews & approves new team entry requests
  • new teams pay the $200m fee to enter the concorde agreement (based on FIA approving first?_
  • old teams (FOM?) approve new teams entry
  • new teams join the grid

or is it

  • potential new teams submit entry requests
  • FIA reviews & approves new team entry requests
  • old teams (FOM?) approve new teams entry
  • new teams pay the $200m fee to enter the concorde agreement (based on FIA + FOM/old teams approving first?)
  • new teams join the grid

the whole "RAISE THE CONCORDE AGREEMENT ENTRY TO $600M" is a nonstarter. the agreement says $200m. the Saudis say they aren't re opening negotiations on the current Concorde Agreement and i think they are currently all in negotiations for the next Concorde Agreement anyway.

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kevwun

kevwun 16,321

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Something came up on the Vegas thread that has me curious now.  Are the sky bridges over the Strip going to be open during practice and the race?  Smax pointed out where he had been to races that had a bridge in to the infield, but the sky bridges are open to the public.

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7,827

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1 minute ago, kevwun said:

Something came up on the Vegas thread that has me curious now.  Are the sky bridges over the Strip going to be open during practice and the race?  Smax pointed out where he had been to races that had a bridge in to the infield, but the sky bridges are open to the public.

They'll have to be open.  How else can people get around if you shut down the Strip?

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UnivTex34

UnivTex34 1,765

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Just now, kevwun said:

Something came up on the Vegas thread that has me curious now.  Are the sky bridges over the Strip going to be open during practice and the race?  Smax pointed out where he had been to races that had a bridge in to the infield, but the sky bridges are open to the public.

I imagine they will be just like the 2 bridges over the track at COTA.

They pretty much block the view from them during race weekend so folks are not congregating on them to watch. They are essential to move around the track. 

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kevwun

kevwun 16,321

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I didn't think about blocking the view.  I was wondering what was going to prevent them from turning in to a free grand stand.  That combined with being open to the public made me think that having them open during practice and the race was going to cause all kinds of problems.  I guess the answer will be lots of cops and blocking the view of the track.

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wood

wood 11,747

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2 hours ago, kevwun said:

Something came up on the Vegas thread that has me curious now.  Are the sky bridges over the Strip going to be open during practice and the race?  Smax pointed out where he had been to races that had a bridge in to the infield, but the sky bridges are open to the public.

 

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

They'll have to be open.  How else can people get around if you shut down the Strip?

My guess is that - (eta) like y'all said - they'll absolutely be open, but with some kind of walls/signage put up to keep people from seeing the cars on the track without paying.

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wood

wood 11,747

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Some interesting and imho insightful posts re: the Andretti/HiTech saga from loki on Autosport. He's a dick, but he's generally very knowledgeable and reliable. He and I are 100% on exactly the same page regarding this, but he tells it so well, and from what I've observed in the past he really does know in detail how this shit works on the U.S. side.

FullThrottleF1: FIA can accept them but they can't do anything without a commercial deal.

loki: Sure they can.  They can race but not participate in the funds.  That wouldn’t get the teams the dilution fund.  It’s an unlikely premise but when Haas joined Ecclestone threatened not to give them a deal because they didn’t buy Caterham.  Haas wasn’t a Concorde signatory for a couple/few years and they raced.  Liberty gave them a deal but that was likely due to the restriction of getting funds the first few years rather than Ecclestone’s threats.  I reckon Ecclestone would have also given them a deal after the holding period.  It’s doubtful they would but Guggenheim and GM have very deep pockets and could fund this long enough to pressure Liberty.  It will be interesting to see how GM and Guggenheim respond should they be denied. 

Imagine being Williams, Haas, Alpha Tauri or Audi and getting beat by a team that’s not in the fund and not getting any dilution money.

 

pdac: All nice, in theory, but they can't race. The FIA have stated that they will not accept an entry that FOM reject.Reports indicate the FIA will approve the entry regardless.  The Judge 13 has an interesting take that it could be a way to avoid legal exposure while at the same time enacting a power play on Liberty. The teams, FOM and FIA signed an agreement allowing 12 teams with a buy in and no further stipulations with regards to the Concorde.  Denying them on account of not wanting to share revenue is potentially a Sherman Act violation.  The teams made public statements to this that could be held against Liberty.  

loki: This has turned into a Johnson wagging contest between FOM and Ben Sulayem.   Who’d have thought someone from a male dominated machismo culture might take offense to being told what to do  :lol: .  The take by The Judge is it’s personal now for Ben Sulayem who thinks others are trying to usurp his power.   The gist is he’s fed up with FOM being seen as the controlling party where the FIA is the one, at least legally, controls the series.  It’s plausible. We’ll see what happens.  This could well be a strategically placed leak to pressure FOM.

 

Nathan: But how does a team survive long-term without TV money? I don't think even Ferrari collect sponsorship sufficient to fill the budget cap. Haas's piggy bank was it's owners company justified by being marketing.  Both Andretti and Hitech have to sing for their suppers.

loki: Andretti doesn’t have the money.  He’s the operations guy.  Guggenheim/Group 1001 is more than a sponsor.  They’re the majority in equity participation.  They are his partners not only his sponsors.  As is GM.  It would be like saying Red Bull F1 or Mercedes have to sing for their supper from their sponsors.  In all 3 cases the sponsors are the owners.  In this case it would be to see how tenable it would be to hold out for the new Concorde and risk having Liberty not allowing them to participate.  Liberty doesn’t have a US antitrust exemption and the league is not technically a franchise.  They realize this hence Domenicali’s and Maffei’s statements being vague and couched when pressed for details.  If they’re set to deny them regardless I’m sure they have a strategy but they aren’t dealing with a Haas or Caterham here.  The principals in F1 are going to need to walk a fine line.  In terms of power and finance the Andretti partners equals or better to the parties involved in F1.

 

If a new team is admitted by the FIA and not a signatory to the Concorde the buy in provision is moot.  The anti dilution is for participation in the Concorde not an FIA entry requirement.  Ben Sulayem’s statements could be an attempt to leverage that. IOW saying “they’re coming in anyway and you won’t get the extra money if you hold out”.  Regardless of how all this shakes out long term it doesn’t bode well for the relationship between Liberty and the FIA specifically Ben Sulayem.  One party, perhaps both won’t be happy once this is all said and done.  We’re past the point of hard feelings.  It’s bare knuckles now.

 

 

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wood

wood 11,747

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28 minutes ago, deft said:

Kinda bill hicks’ish

I used to dream of winning. I still do but used to as well .


Edit: Mitch hedburg, dammit

Nobody has ever made me laugh as hard as Bill Hicks did. Fucking genius. RIP.

"Hey, whatcha readin' for?"

 

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NoName

NoName 17,114

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Posted
18 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

And they had to use a crane, so Checo just gave away photos of RB’s brand new floor. He really is doing everything he can to lose that seat. 

he has half a season to do better, but fuck. imagine doing this bad in that rocket ship.

Checo is through the end of next year. I can see them absolutely paying him to go away.

Too bad that Alonso is signed on a "multi year" deal, he would be very interesting in RBR but don't see a way that happens.

 

Spoiler

How long is each F1 driver contracted for?

  • Max Verstappen – end 2028
  • Sergio Perez – end 2024
  • Lewis Hamilton – end 2023
  • George Russell – end 2023
  • Charles Leclerc – end 2024
  • Carlos Sainz – end 2024
  • Lando Norris – end 2025
  • Oscar Piastri – end 2024
  • Fernando Alonso – end 2024
  • Lance Stroll – unknown
  • Pierre Gasly – end 2024
  • Esteban Ocon – end 2024
  • Valtteri Bottas – end 2025
  • Zhou Guanyu – end 2023
  • Daniel Ricciardo – end 2023
  • Yuki Tsunoda – end 2023
  • Alex Albon – end 2023
  • Logan Sargeant – end 2023
  • Kevin Magnussen – end 2023
  • Nico Hulkenberg – end 2024
  •  

 

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Dutch

Dutch 4,533

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1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

And they had to use a crane, so Checo just gave away photos of RB’s brand new floor. 

 

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

Danny might be in the Red Bull by Sunday... 

If he does lose the seat this season, I'm going to guess that putting the RBR floor on view for all the world to see multiple times is the reason.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19,221

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1 hour ago, Goofyboy said:

Any chance Russel jumps ship? He’d be swapping second seats, but he’d get in a faster car.

Where do you think he would go? RB wouldn’t take Russell. Max hates Russell. Not to mention, if RB really was going to accept a second driver who could challenge Max, guys like Lando or Charles would probably be higher up on their list. 
 

Other than that, no car is clearly faster than Merc. 

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