Formula 1 2023

[wood 11171]

16 minutes ago, G650 said:

Man I was riding high on McLaren this weekend, then you gotta go and remind me how things used to be. FML lol.

Yeah that was an amazing car that should have won 2 championships. And I miss old Ron, too. Instant entertainment! But McLaren is looking really strong now, & Lando says they're coming for Red Bull.

[NoName 16306]

19 hours ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

After putting some thought into this, as I am typing, Russell is probably the least likeable guy on the grid for me.

imagine if this happened THIS YEAR or to anyone who wasn't Max back in 18
 

Spoiler

 

[NoName 16306]

5 hours ago, G650 said:

I honestly don't think George is good enough currently. He is one of those guys who is just on the edge of being a top guy, but just missing that last little bit of "it". I dunno, he may smooth out his inconsistency as he ages. But currently to my eyes, Verstappen, Hamilton and Fred are a different level of driver than the rest of the field.

i mean, those are 3 of the all time best drivers - hard to compare there.

[BonzoMontreaux 1033]

15 minutes ago, NoName said:

imagine if this happened THIS YEAR or to anyone who wasn't Max back in 18
 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

I am indifferent on Ocon but I can understand why people wouldn't like him.  

[wood 11171]

17 minutes ago, NoName said:

imagine if this happened THIS YEAR or to anyone who wasn't Max back in 18
 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Yeah for me, Ocon is easily the least likeable cat out there.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, wood said:

Yeah that was an amazing car that should have won 2 championships. And I miss old Ron, too. Instant entertainment! But McLaren is looking really strong now, & Lando says they're coming for Red Bull.

I don't think it's talked enough just how much improvement McLaren has had since the start of this season. This chart is insane:

[NoName 16306]

4 minutes ago, wood said:

Yeah for me, Ocon is easily the least likeable cat out there.

yeah, he seems like an asshole to...every teammate he has driven with at the F1 level? which is hard to do.

5 minutes ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

I am indifferent on Ocon but I can understand why people wouldn't like him.  

i just can't hate GR more than i dislike Ocon.

i don't like him at all, to be clear, but i reallllllllllly dont like Ocon

[Guest]

Y'all got a lot of Ocon hate when Hamilton is sitting right there.

Ah, I've even softened on Hamilton a bit now that he isn't the focus each week. Respect the hell out of him and his driving, but just don't like the dude.

I am going to go back and watch 2007 Monaco to see that drama.

[faps 806]

14 minutes ago, wood said:

Yeah for me, Ocon is easily the least likeable cat out there.

He was laughing at Max at the weigh-in after that Brazil race too. Skinny little douche should've taken a fist to the chicklets.

[NoName 16306]

11 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Y'all got a lot of Ocon hate when Hamilton is sitting right there.

Ah, I've even softened on Hamilton a bit now that he isn't the focus each week. Respect the hell out of him and his driving, but just don't like the dude.

I am going to go back and watch 2007 Monaco to see that drama.

Lewis at least wins, Ocon has won 14 total wins in his racing career. 9 of them came in F3 with Prema.

find the outlier year here

 

dude gets a podium about once very 40 races.

the fact he got a 3 year contract with Alpine is insane.

 

[G650 14108]

24 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I don't think it's talked enough just how much improvement McLaren has had since the start of this season. This chart is insane:

I honestly haven't wrapped my head around it yet.

[G650 14108]

Ocon fucking sucks

[wood 11171]

28 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I don't think it's talked enough just how much improvement McLaren has had since the start of this season. This chart is insane:

Yep. They were nowhere and then caught up by doing the same thing Aston did - copying Red Bull's concept. Looks like Merc is all set to copy Newey as well. Aston Martin, meanwhile took a step or two back. According to the F1T guys and some other places, it seems they spent a lot of their extra wind tunnel time and general development resources on the flexi-wing route, which they had been told was fine, only to have the TDs pull the rug out from under their development path. The TDs clamped down on the flexi parts, and the tire change hurt them as well, as they were probably only second to RBR in their ability to make the tires work and last a long time before Pirelli changed them. They don't have the same ability to crank out new parts as the bigger teams do - something they're in the middle of addressing with infrastructure and staffing enhancements - so they haven't been able to go down the new path as quickly as the others. Makes a lot of sense of it all.

[wood 11171]

20 minutes ago, NoName said:

the fact he got a 3 year contract with Alpine is insane.

Seriously, signing him to that long of a contract, and the timing of it, made up one of the worst moves I've ever seen an F1 team make. 

As a result of their rush to lock up Ocon, they lost Alonso and Piastri. Just wow.

Edited September 26, 2023 by wood

[Dutch 4465]

I didn't realize only five of the grid have contracts beyond next year; "Silly Season '24" should be extra silly.

And that McLaren graph is crazy.  They went from challenging AT and Haas for 18th to challenging for podiums.  Incredible improvement.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Dutch

[wood 11171]

39 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Y'all got a lot of Ocon hate when Hamilton is sitting right there.

Ah, I've even softened on Hamilton a bit now that he isn't the focus each week. Respect the hell out of him and his driving, but just don't like the dude.

I am going to go back and watch 2007 Monaco to see that drama.

:whynotbothgif:

But seriously, even with the guys on the grid that I generally don't like, there are still positives that they bring to the table that I can relate to in some way. I can't find anything like that with Ocon.

[NoName 16306]

6 minutes ago, wood said:

Seriously, signing him to that long of a contract, and the timing of it, made up one of the worst moves I've ever seen an F1 team make. 

As a result of their rush to lock up Ocon, they lost Alonso and Piastri. Just wow.

still stand by the fact that if he was...anything other than French...he doesn't get that.

i assume all of this is part of the reason for the shakeup in their leadership across the board.

i know he has had some bad luck this year (5 retirements in 16 races) - but fuck that guy. 

[wood 11171]

2 minutes ago, NoName said:

i know he has had some bad luck this year (5 retirements in 16 races) - but fuck that guy. 

Yeah, fuck him. Can't cut him any slack over reliability. He still crows about 'beating' Alonso last year even though poor reliability and bad strategy calls are what made that happen. Alonso destroyed him on the track at every turn.

[G650 14108]

1 minute ago, wood said:

Yeah, fuck him. Can't cut him any slack over reliability. He still crows about 'beating' Alonso last year even though poor reliability and bad strategy calls are what made that happen. Alonso destroyed him on the track at every turn.

This is actually what really hardened me against him. He was an absolute cunt last year.

[Chewbacca 7730]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

This is actually what really hardened me against him. He was an absolute cunt last year.

Just last year?

[G650 14108]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Just last year?

I mean more than usual.

[wood 11171]

3 minutes ago, G650 said:

I mean more than usual.

Let's say this twinkie represents Ocon's normal amount of cuntiness ...

 

[wood 11171]

Wow that 24/25 silly season looks tasty indeed. Seats at Ferrari, Aston Martin, and Red Bull up for grabs. Lewis, George, Max, Lance, and Oscar already spoken for,  Audi on the horizon, maybe Andretti too, etc ...

Edited September 26, 2023 by wood

[NoName 16306]

 

[dieucla98 2938]

5 minutes ago, wood said:

Wow that 24/25 silly season looks tasty indeed. Seats at Ferrari, Aston Martin, and Red Bull up for grabs. Lewis, George, Max, Lance, and Oscar already spoken for,  Audi on the horizon, maybe Andretti too, etc ...

Lance Stroll better not be in a fucking F1 seat by the 24/25 season. I would bet it's more likely he'll be on trial for murder using an F1 car as a weapon.

[faps 806]

All this Ocon hate...

[G650 14108]

The great unifying issue of our times

[utee94 15746]

He's an annoying pissant but it's hard for me to muster any real hate for him.  More like, I feel complete indifference.

[elfenix 34172]

7 hours ago, Dutch said:

And that McLaren graph is crazy.  They went from challenging AT and Haas for 18th to challenging for podiums.  Incredible improvement.

they should send checo a fruit basket

[wood 11171]

Like I been sayin' ...

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/09/26/five-second-penalties-not-strict-enough-vent-f1-drivers-after-perez-example/?feed_id=41404&fbclid=IwAR2vNlUkoPrdyqglVUDEL4Dd-MEH4QdeXoK8Z63kfR3QmKsaUfVHuujPtok

Quote

 

Five-second penalties not ‘strict enough’, vent F1 drivers after Perez example
 
“The problem for me is in Turn 11, he [Perez] did the same move again to me on track today and I avoided it,” Albon said on Sunday in Suzuka. “And then he did it again to Kevin. I was behind it so I had the best view of everyone. So it clearly is not teaching the drivers anything because the penalties aren’t strict enough. I mean, that’s two races in a row.”

Magnussen was also critical of Perez’s optimistic overtaking attempt, saying: “I just got spun around there by Perez, and it ruined our race.
“We had to pit, and that was too early for the two-stop strategy that we had, and the tyre degradation that we had. It was just too early to pit then. But we had to.
I mean five seconds, I think he’s penalising himself, there’s a natural penalty for him doing that,” the Dane said in response to the Red Bull driver’s time penalty.
“It doesn’t look good for him, but it is what it is. We’re racing. He was in a shitty position, and he made a shitty move.”
 
In response to the plea for harsher penalties for race-ruining contact, the director of the Grand Prix Drivers’ Association, George Russell said: “Yeah, I mean I’ve been in the position where I’ve taken blame. “Austin last year I made the mistake with Carlos and I got five seconds for it. That was probably drive-through worthy. It’s difficult because you can’t judge, you shouldn’t judge the consequence of the incident but sometimes you need to judge the consequence of the incident. So I’ll need to review.

 

That bit from George actually makes me dislike him a little less.

[utee94 15746]

In the spirit of fair competition, I absolutely believe the severity of the incident-- the damage done by the at-fault driver, to the race of the victim driver-- should be comprehended into the severity of the penalty.  If your "shitty move" ends someone's race, then the penalty should be stronger than if your "shitty move" just costs them 15 second on the track.

At the same time, I recognize the difficulty in making a call that is so subjective.  I don't know that there's a really good way to implement that. 

[Guest]

The only appropriate penalty: 

Make someone go wide? Right to jail. Wreck them out? Jail. Offer them a slipstream on a qualifying lap? Surprisingly, jail.

[wood 11171]

Rodin names Andretti as successful F1 applicant after own failed bid https://racer.com/2023/09/28/rodin-names-andretti-as-successful-f1-applicant-after-own-failed-bid/

[Burt Macklin 18999]

22 hours ago, utee94 said:

In the spirit of fair competition, I absolutely believe the severity of the incident-- the damage done by the at-fault driver, to the race of the victim driver-- should be comprehended into the severity of the penalty.  If your "shitty move" ends someone's race, then the penalty should be stronger than if your "shitty move" just costs them 15 second on the track.

At the same time, I recognize the difficulty in making a call that is so subjective.  I don't know that there's a really good way to implement that. 

I sort of agree with this, but there’s a lot of risk in considering that. I’m sure RB would’ve retired Checo every time he made the slightest contact with Lewis in 2021 if the outcome was taken into account. 

[NoName 16306]

23 hours ago, utee94 said:

In the spirit of fair competition, I absolutely believe the severity of the incident-- the damage done by the at-fault driver, to the race of the victim driver-- should be comprehended into the severity of the penalty.  If your "shitty move" ends someone's race, then the penalty should be stronger than if your "shitty move" just costs them 15 second on the track.

At the same time, I recognize the difficulty in making a call that is so subjective.  I don't know that there's a really good way to implement that. 

the absolute prime example of this is George/Carlos at T1 at COTA last year

i think he got 5 seconds.

[utee94 15746]

19 minutes ago, NoName said:

the absolute prime example of this is George/Carlos at T1 at COTA last year

i think he got 5 seconds.

Yup, I was absolutely livid when I saw that.  

[wood 11171]

37 minutes ago, NoName said:

the absolute prime example of this is George/Carlos at T1 at COTA last year

i think he got 5 seconds.

Yeah isn't that the one George was referring to above where he said he got 5 seconds but should have gotten a drive through?

5s for that was so crazy that even he thought it was light.

Edited September 28, 2023 by wood

[NoName 16306]

10 minutes ago, wood said:

Yeah isn't that the one George was referring to above where he said he got 5 seconds but should have gotten a drive through?

5s for that was so crazy that even he thought it was light.

it is. i can't imagine how he only got 5 sec for that - he went on to finish 5th and get the fastest lap and Carlos got a DNF after 1 lap. he finished 36 points ahead of Carlos, and went from being 5 points ahead of Carlos in the WDC before the race to 16 after the race

[utee94 15746]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

it is. i can't imagine how he only got 5 sec for that - he went on to finish 5th and get the fastest lap and Carlos got a DNF after 1 lap. he finished 36 points ahead of Carlos, and went from being 5 points ahead of Carlos in the WDC before the race to 16 after the race

Absolute bullshit.  

Still makes me ragey.

[wood 11171]

FYI for anyone interested in more of this talk, there are two long-running topics over on autosport that are getting active again with all the crap happening lately: 

'Overtaking Rules' and 'Proper Driver Penalties'.

[utee94 15746]

Following a discussion on Autosport totally smacks of effort.

We'll just let you follow, distill, and summarize for us, over here on the surl.

[G650 14108]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

Following a discussion on Autosport totally smacks of effort.

We'll just let you follow, distill, and summarize for us, over here on the surl.

Cosign

[deft 6800]

Disseminate us wood.

[wood 11171]

2 hours ago, deft said:

Disseminate us wood.

LOL I think y'all are pretty well up to speed. If anything new or interesting comes up, I'll definitely pass it on.

[wood 11171]

In the overtaking thread there's a lot of talk about different overtaking incidents, the sad state of driving standards in general, and potential best ways to remedy all that. The latest is a lot of talk about Lewis forcing George off at Spoon. Some interesting ideas there, and apparently a lot more thought being put into it than the FIA/Stewards. The proper driver penalties thread is pretty similar to what we're seeing in here lately, but on a bigger scale - 5s for every infraction is stupid, etc. Position penalties gaining lots of traction, and so on.

[utee94 15746]

11 hours ago, wood said:

In the overtaking thread there's a lot of talk about different overtaking incidents, the sad state of driving standards in general, and potential best ways to remedy all that. The latest is a lot of talk about Lewis forcing George off at Spoon. Some interesting ideas there, and apparently a lot more thought being put into it than the FIA/Stewards. The proper driver penalties thread is pretty similar to what we're seeing in here lately, but on a bigger scale - 5s for every infraction is stupid, etc. Position penalties gaining lots of traction, and so on.

Yeah we've talked about position penalties here as well.  I think that would close some of the gap between severity of crime and punishment.  It's still all so subjective that I'm not sure there's any "great" solution.

But man it would have made me so much happier last year in Austin, if the steward came across the radio and said, "Russell, retire the car.  Your race is forfeit, because you're an asshole."

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by utee94

[wood 11171]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

Yeah we've talked about position penalties here as well.  I think that would close some of the gap between severity of crime and punishment.  It's still all so subjective that I'm not sure there's any "great" solution.

But man it would have made me so much happier last year in Austin, if the steward came across the radio and said, "Russell, retire the car.  Your race is forfeit, because you're an asshole."

Yeah there's no perfect solution, but they could certainly come up with a system that's better than what we have now. The main thing is to create penalties with teeth,  that are actual deterrents and are consistent. The way it is now, it seems that some drivers are just going ahead and committing the infraction, rolling the dice that they won't be penalized, but not really too worried anyway, because they figure that even if they're penalized they can make up the time on track once they have the posiition or whatever. Lots of talk about Perez fgoing all NASCAR the last couple of races and basically getting slaps on the wrist.

Edited September 29, 2023 by wood

[wood 11171]

OBTW, the construction worker who was killed in Vegas working on the stands was done in when the quickie saw he was using kicked back on him. Poor guy was still alive after the hit but bled out before responders arrived. Those things come with guards on them for a reason, and I guess the one on the saw he was using had been removed as is common in construction and elsewhere. Sad.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/labor-union-leader-calls-bellagio-death-a-freak-accident-911-audio-released-2911176/?released.utm_campaign=widget&utm_medium=topnews&utm_source=homepage&utm_term=Labor%20union%20leader%20calls%20Bellagio%20death%20a%20‘freak%20accident’%3B%20911%20audio%20released

[G650 14108]

Pipe saw as we call them. I've had a couple guys over the years get nicks, but one could definitely do some damage.

[wood 11171]

Great quote here that I saw on Autosprt. Goes back to what we were talking about before with RBR somehow trying to hamstring Checo. Albon sums it up pretty nicely imho. It's just a diffeeence of strengths and weaknesses in the skillsets of different drivers. This says it a lot better than I was able to.

Albon on 2020 car:

Quote

"I mean, when all is said and done, he might be the greatest driver of all time, but he has a very distinct style of driving, and he likes the car set up a certain way that's hard for a lot of drivers to sync up with. 
 "Of course, you can tinker and tweak your own car, but just the Red Bull, in general, is suited to Max's style.
 "I like a lot of front-end and nose. I've been teammates with George and Charles and I've always had way more nose than them. Basically think front-end sensitivity. 
 "And when I got into the Red Bull - I mean there was so much nose on the thing that if you blew on the wheel the car would turn. If you play Call of Duty, or a game like that, turn your sensitivity to the highest it will go. That's what it's like to drive that car."

Albon continues his story in which he shares his unique perspective on the reigning world champion's racing skills.

Quote

 

Albon: "It's also the way he handles the car. He is very precise. What he wants in a car is very different from what most drivers want. He wants a car that is so sharp in the corner; it's unbelievable." According to Albon, Verstappen is always playing with the car. And although the Dutchman's steering always looks very smooth, Albon knows better: "It's not. I can tell you that that car is extremely sharp."

The Williams driver concludes, "I've always been known as a driver who likes a lot of front gripping, to control the car precisely. And then this guy comes in. He makes it look like I'm driving a bus."

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by wood