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Formula 1 2023

Anton Chigurh

By Anton Chigurh
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naija

naija 2961

Posted
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On 9/26/2023 at 8:00 AM, dieucla98 said:

These guys are all in the top 0.001% of drivers in the world. They're accustomed to winning, not playing 2nd fiddle to anyone so when we see a young driver getting uppity about team orders, I feel like that's expected whether it's George, Lewis, Max, or Liam Lawson. The "team" concept in F1 is so convoluted anyways - every single driver out there is 99% me, 1% team regardless of what they may say on the radio.

I don't hold it against any of these guys when the team asks them to step aside and then they get upset about it. Even Max f'ing Checo last year at Sao Paulo (I think....) - 100% selfish and 100% expected. Some guys actually follow team orders like Gasly and Russell this past weekend but none of them are happy about it.

be honest, it's borderline antithetical to what a fair competition should look like.

the sport markets its drivers as individualists, when its anything but.

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wood

wood 11747

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Posted (edited)

FIA approves Andretti application for 11th F1 team slot

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-approves-andretti-application-for-11th-f1-team-slot/10527926/

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12957252/andrettis-f1-bid-given-fia-green-light-as-new-team-one-step-closer-to-joining-championship

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wood

wood 11747

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The FIA has called FOM and the teams' bluff, forcing their hand, while covering their own asses and leaving FOM twisting in the wind with no options that they really like very much ... and it's beautiful, imho. I think in the end the teams and F1 will realize the best option is to just put on their big boy pants and let Andretti in. They won't like it ... but they don't have to like it.

They've put the ball squarely in FOM and the teams' court, who will have to live with the consequences of whatever decision they make.

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Burt Macklin

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Posted
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3 hours ago, wood said:

The FIA has called FOM and the teams' bluff, forcing their hand, while covering their own asses and leaving FOM twisting in the wind with no options that they really like very much ... and it's beautiful, imho. I think in the end the teams and F1 will realize the best option is to just put on their big boy pants and let Andretti in. They won't like it ... but they don't have to like it.

They've put the ball squarely in FOM and the teams' court, who will have to live with the consequences of whatever decision they make.

I can’t wait to hear 2025 Crofty awkwardly exclaim that an unnamed team who can’t be shown on television has overtaken Liam Lawson’s Alpha Tauri around the outside of Maggots and Becketts to move into 10th place. 

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wood

wood 11747

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2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

How do they deny MA when still fielding Jr teams that don’t try to win a championships?

Exactly. And solo teams that aren't trying to win it either & are just happy to be there?

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pops

pops 7121

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11 hours ago, wood said:

FIA approves Andretti application for 11th F1 team slot

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-approves-andretti-application-for-11th-f1-team-slot/10527926/

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12957252/andrettis-f1-bid-given-fia-green-light-as-new-team-one-step-closer-to-joining-championship

A caddy that zags?

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NoName

NoName 17107

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

I can’t wait to hear 2025 Crofty awkwardly exclaim that an unnamed team who can’t be shown on television has overtaken Liam Lawson’s Alpha Tauri around the outside of Maggots and Becketts to move into 10th place. 

my general understanding of this is that they can't refer to the cars or show them on the TV broadcast. like can't refer to them at all in that scenario, so they basically would have to bluescreen them out of the race at all times?

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wood

wood 11747

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2 hours ago, NoName said:

my general understanding of this is that they can't refer to the cars or show them on the TV broadcast. like can't refer to them at all in that scenario, so they basically would have to bluescreen them out of the race at all times?

That kind of thing has been suggested before (I think with Haas even, when they entered). It's not practical and never happens.

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NoName

NoName 17107

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42 minutes ago, wood said:

That kind of thing has been suggested before (I think with Haas even, when they entered). It's not practical and never happens.

totally agree, i am saying if FIA approves them but FOM doesn't - that was my understanding. the team can't say they are in F1 or advertise it since the team doesn't have F1 rights and F1 can't advertise the team at all or mention them/show them at all since they don't have the new team's commercial rights?

agreed it's not practical and won't ever happen

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Guest

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Posted

Decided to Google it:

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/insiders-guide-what-are-f1s-tyre-rules/6885460

How big are F1 tyres and what do they weigh? 
F1 cars have run 13-inch wheels rims for years, with the diameter of the tyre and rim combination measuring 26.4 inches (67cm). The fronts are 30.5cm wide and the rears are 40.5cm, with intermediates 5cm wider and full wets 10cm wider.  

From 2022, the rim size will increase to 18 inches (45.7cm) but the tyre and rim diameter will only go up to 28.3 inches (72cm). The lower profile design will change the way the cars behave on track, in theory making them even more responsive to changes of direction. 

Excluding the wheel rims, the front and rear tyres weigh 9.5kg and 11.5kg respectively – about 1.5 times the weight of a bowling ball. 

 

11.5 kg is 25 pounds.

 

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utee94

utee94 16066

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, wood said:

I'm fine with that, but how 'bout let's go where the real weight additions have been made - in the batteries.

Yeah, as long as there's a large battery and electric motor component to the cars, they're going to remain heavy AF.

Go back to 100% ICE, us the alternative fuels or whatever, and let's get back to some old-school racing.

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utee94

utee94 16066

Posted
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5 minutes ago, Dutch said:

And get a race car that sounds like a race car.

Amen, brutha!

Even the V8s back in 2012 sounded really good.  The first two years of racing at COTA, I had to use ear plugs in the T15 grandstands.  And in the main grandstands, where the noise is trapped from  both sides?  Man, you really needed full-on earmuff style protection.

Now I don't use any kind of protection, even when I'm in the main grandstands. 

Well, except for some of those classic cars that still have the old, loud engines.  And also, NASCAR, which was crazy loud.

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utee94

utee94 16066

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4 minutes ago, G650 said:

The old Indy V8s made NASCAR motors sound like a 4 banger from a Tercel.

Yeah I saw a CART race in the late 90s in Houston, I believe they were using V8s at the time.  They were definitely loud, but it was a road course through downtown Houston and so the sound escaped more than it does between the main grandstands at COTA.

And for NASCAR it was as much a function of there being 40-something cars all barreling down the front straight at the same time, as the sound of the engines.

 

 

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G650

G650 14421

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5 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Yeah I saw a CART race in the late 90s in Houston, I believe they were using V8s at the time.  They were definitely loud, but it was a road course through downtown Houston and so the sound escaped more than it does between the main grandstands at COTA.

And for NASCAR it was as much a function of there being 40-something cars all barreling down the front straight at the same time, as the sound of the engines.

 

 

 

They probably weren't wound up as high either I would guess. At RIR, the Indy cars basically ran wide open the whole time, crazy short race. But in downtown Richmond, you could hear them like you were at the track, it was wild. The NASCAR races you may get a small hum at best if the wind was blowing the right way.

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wood

wood 11747

Posted
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3 hours ago, Dutch said:

And get a race car that sounds like a race car.

 

 

 

 

So my kid and I were talking about this yesterday. I could be wrong but if you went to, for example, NA V10s running on the latest cutting edge alternative fuels with no ERS, would we not see the following benefits?

- significant weight savings, enabling F1 to have ...
- smaller cars because of the reduced need for crazy amounts of DF to offset the weight
- more nimble cars in and out of slower corners, without the ridiculous, uncatchable snaps of oversteer
- great-sounding cars again
- a 'green' sustainability effort in the form of alternative fuel and thermal efficiency research, which could be easily marketed and potentially beneficial to the world

Seems to me like such a move could fix a lot of what's wrong with F1 these days. Even if you stayed with turbo V6s rather than V10s, the sound would still be better than it is now and the other benefits would remain as well, esp if you lose fuel flow limits. You lose 55kg right off the bat by cutting the ERS. And then there's the ERS cooling. Dunno how much that weighs. Cutting the turbo is probably pretty significant as well, but I dunno how much the turbo and all of its related accessories and piping weigh. You could also get rid of about another 50kg if you bring back refueling and drop the fuel limits. Just sayin'. 

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wood

wood 11747

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3 hours ago, utee94 said:

Amen, brutha!

Even the V8s back in 2012 sounded really good.  The first two years of racing at COTA, I had to use ear plugs in the T15 grandstands.  And in the main grandstands, where the noise is trapped from  both sides?  Man, you really needed full-on earmuff style protection.

Now I don't use any kind of protection, even when I'm in the main grandstands. 

Well, except for some of those classic cars that still have the old, loud engines.  And also, NASCAR, which was crazy loud.

3 hours ago, G650 said:

The old Indy V8s made NASCAR motors sound like a 4 banger from a Tercel.

Any of y'all ever hear the V10 demo car they ran at COTA a couple of years ago? When that thing fired up in the garage, people literally came running to see what it was - OR came running because they knew what it was and didn't wanna miss it. No such reaction to any of the other cars. It's like when they ran Fernando's old Renault. It was all the announcers and fans could talk about all weekend. F1 is really missing a big opportunity.  They can still be 'green' and sustainable (at least as sustainable as they are now), be a research testbed, and have cars that get people's hearts racing just by hearing them from a mile away.

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utee94

utee94 16066

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, wood said:

So my kid and I were talking about this yesterday. I could be wrong but if you went to, for example, NA V10s running on the latest cutting edge alternative fuels with no ERS, would we not see the following benefits?

- significant weight savings, enabling F1 to have ...
- smaller cars because of the reduced need for crazy amounts of DF to offset the weight
- more nimble cars in and out of slower corners, without the ridiculous, uncatchable snaps of oversteer
- great-sounding cars again
- a 'green' sustainability effort in the form of alternative fuel and thermal efficiency research, which could be easily marketed and potentially beneficial to the world

Seems to me like such a move could fix a lot of what's wrong with F1 these days. Even if you stayed with turbo V6s rather than V10s, the sound would still be better than it is now and the other benefits would remain as well, esp if you lose fuel flow limits. You lose 55kg right off the bat by cutting the ERS. And then there's the ERS cooling. Dunno how much that weighs. Cutting the turbo is probably pretty significant as well, but I dunno how much the turbo and all of its related accessories and piping weigh. You could also get rid of about another 50kg if you bring back refueling and drop the fuel limits. Just sayin'. 

All of this, yes!

 

47 minutes ago, wood said:

Any of y'all ever hear the V10 demo car they ran at COTA a couple of years ago? When that thing fired up in the garage, people literally came running to see what it was - OR came running because they knew what it was and didn't wanna miss it. No such reaction to any of the other cars. It's like when they ran Fernando's old Renault. It was all the announcers and fans could talk about all weekend. F1 is really missing a big opportunity.  They can still be 'green' and sustainable (at least as sustainable as they are now), be a research testbed, and have cars that get people's hearts racing just by hearing them from a mile away.

Oh yeah, I heard it and came running to see WTF was happening.  It was awesome.

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