Formula 1 2023

[utee94 15,742]

8 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

The entire conversation (from F1 and the fans claiming to be worried about it) is really fucking stupid. 

Yup.

But don't forget the drivers who also choose to preach about environmental impact while flying all about the globe on private aircraft (even after they say they're going to stop doing that) and emitting gobs of carbon pollution on private yachts equipped with private small watercraft and private helicopters... 

 

[Burt Macklin 18,988]

4 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Yup.

But don't forget the drivers who also choose to preach about environmental impact while flying all about the globe on private aircraft (even after they say they're going to stop doing that) and emitting gobs of carbon pollution on private yachts equipped with private small watercraft and private helicopters... 

 

This seems like a real cheap shot. Did you not just see the video of Lewis running all the way to Antarctica instead of taking a private jet? 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Burt Macklin

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

that and they don’t actually want to be efficient. The race promoters don’t want two GPs that are close in proximity back to back. 

 

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

I'd be fine if everyone would just admit that Formula 1 isn't, and can never be, an environmentally sensitive sport, and we can all move on with our lives and stop talking about it.

The sport is growing nationally and internationally, and it's obvious huge number of people don't really care, regardless of what they may say publicly or in opinion polls.  There are specific demographics that have a problem with it and won't ever be fans, just as there are specific demographics that don't like violence and will never be fans of football or boxing or MMA.

Whatever damage F1 does to the world, is miniscule next to the 1.5 billion cars that exist on the planet and have nothing to do with auto racing, plus all of the industrial pollution on top of that.

 

47 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Agree with everything you said. The lip service to climate impact from F1 is dumb, but if they really cared, they would focus their talk on things like biofuels and how developments through F1 research make a way bigger global impact than the travel of the F1 teams every year. The entire conversation (from F1 and the fans claiming to be worried about it) is really fucking stupid. 

 

46 minutes ago, wood said:

Yep. Absolutely. All the talk about streamlining the schedule and making it more logistically palatable, greener, cheaper, etc was just lip service. Predictably.

We are all in agreement. I think climate change is an issue. But whether F1 races the most inefficient schedule possible or completely disbands makes zero difference. 

[wood 11,103]

2 hours ago, utee94 said:

Yup.

But don't forget the drivers who also choose to preach about environmental impact while flying all about the globe on private aircraft (even after they say they're going to stop doing that) and emitting gobs of carbon pollution on private yachts equipped with private small watercraft and private helicopters... 

 

Yep, apparently that trip would have produced a minimum of 400 tons of CO2 even if they went straight from Argentina to the nearest Antarctic point and then back home, which is extremely unlikely. no cr.

Edited January 18, 2023 by wood

[wood 11,103]

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

We are all in agreement. I think climate change is an issue. But whether F1 races the most inefficient schedule possible or completely disbands makes zero difference. 

Yep. I'm not arguing that F1 should be trying to 'fix' their schedule. Hope it ddidn't come across that way. An F1 race is nothing in the big picture. The travel & shipping matter, but are still only a tiny drop in a very large bucket. 

[wood 11,103]

2 hours ago, utee94 said:

I'd be fine if everyone would just admit that Formula 1 isn't, and can never be, an environmentally sensitive sport, and we can all move on with our lives and stop talking about it.

The sport is growing nationally and internationally, and it's obvious huge number of people don't really care, regardless of what they may say publicly or in opinion polls.  There are specific demographics that have a problem with it and won't ever be fans, just as there are specific demographics that don't like violence and will never be fans of football or boxing or MMA.

Whatever damage F1 does to the world, is miniscule next to the 1.5 billion cars that exist on the planet and have nothing to do with auto racing, plus all of the industrial pollution on top of that.

... and if what I've been reading and hearing is true, improved ICE efficiency means that tailpipe emissions don't even lead the way in terms of being the worst polluters. They seem to be focusing more now on ships, planes, big diesel-powered trucks, etc. Apparently even the particulates from tires pollute more than what's coming from tailpipes. So now there's a push for electric-power in trucks, but with onboard range extenders like gas turbines. Interesting stuff imho. Plug-in electric power for trucks just seems like a bad idea imho. no cr.

[utee94 15,742]

1 hour ago, wood said:

... and if what I've been reading and hearing is true, improved ICE efficiency means that tailpipe emissions don't even lead the way in terms of being the worst polluters. They seem to be focusing more now on ships, planes, big diesel-powered trucks, etc. Apparently even the particulates from tires pollute more than what's coming from tailpipes. So now there's a push for electric-power in trucks, but with onboard range extenders like gas turbines. Interesting stuff imho. Plug-in electric power for trucks just seems like a bad idea imho. no cr.

Wow that's pretty incredible if true.  I haven't read up on it in several years.

I don't think plug-in power for long-haul trucking has ever been a viable use case.  Same thing goes for plug-in EV pickups that are used for long-distance towing, as I do. There's just not enough battery capability to get it done.  Specifically for my use case, when I'm pulling my RV, I'm often covering 300 miles per day, with a max of up to 500 miles in a day, with a trailer weight of 8,000 - 9,000 lbs.  There's no plug-in EV pickup currently on the market, or even in the relatively near future, that is capable of that.

HOWEVER

I do think that this is a pretty good use case for hybrid electric vehicles.  I'd definitely look into one if it it met all of my other specs for towing capacity and drivability, even if it cost considerably more.  I love the idea of the near-instant torque that could be provided by the electric motor(s) while accelerating or climbing, coupled with the long-run capabilities of the ICE.

 

[wood 11,103]

29 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Wow that's pretty incredible if true.  I haven't read up on it in several years.

I don't think plug-in power for long-haul trucking has ever been a viable use case.  Same thing goes for plug-in EV pickups that are used for long-distance towing, as I do. There's just not enough battery capability to get it done.  Specifically for my use case, when I'm pulling my RV, I'm often covering 300 miles per day, with a max of up to 500 miles in a day, with a trailer weight of 8,000 - 9,000 lbs.  There's no plug-in EV pickup currently on the market, or even in the relatively near future, that is capable of that.

HOWEVER

I do think that this is a pretty good use case for hybrid electric vehicles.  I'd definitely look into one if it it met all of my other specs for towing capacity and drivability, even if it cost considerably more.  I love the idea of the near-instant torque that could be provided by the electric motor(s) while accelerating or climbing, coupled with the long-run capabilities of the ICE.

Yep. All of that. After being an early skeptic of hybrids, I'm 100% onboard with the concept. Full EV (i.e. plug-in only), not so much.You might be interested in these articles about F150 Lightnings that had extremely poor range under loads.

Here's one that couldn't get to 100 miles pulling an airstream: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/

Here's another where the guy need to go 32 miles each way, towing an enclosed car trailer weighing less than 1500 pounds (less than 1/5 of the truck's 7700 lb towing capacity). On the way back, it would have a Ford Model A inside, bringing the total weight to around 3700 pounds (less than 1/2 of capacity). He started with 200 miles of range showing on the dash. When he completed the first 32-mile leg, he had 132 miles left. When he made it home, he had 42 miles of range left. So he used 158 miles of range to go 64 miles, towing an average of maybe 2600 pounds. https://insideevs.com/news/612612/towing-with-ford-f150-lightning-total-disaster-owner-finds/

There are lots and lots of stories and videos like these. The amazing part is that anyone's even remotely surprised by it. The first time I ever heard of an electric pickup or semi, it took about 1 second for me to say "Welp, the range is gonna absolutely suck under a load. But ok, cool. Hookem". Sorry ot.

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by wood

[elfenix 34,168]

range on gas stuff sucks under load as well, so people pretending to be shocked that electric has the same issue is astounding.  ofc, you can refill in 5-10 minutes practically anywhere with gas/diesel (there's no reason that electric couldn't be recharged out in the sticks, you can literally hang chargers off utility poles, but obv no where near that fast a charge).

for stuff moving in commerce ideally you'd use electrified rail for long distance shipping and then use local distro hubs for last few miles.  maybe put some sort of battery capacity in the trailers themselves (which, since they have to sit for loading/unloading, seems like a great time to charge them, though sitting too long is also a bad use of resources).   that won't get rid of all diesel engines (deliveries out into the sticks with use liquid fuels for ages) but could address the vast, vast majority of usage. 

but that's all for a different thread. 

[faps 806]

I have an EV for daily commuting that I love. That is what they excel at, being city cars. This long distance shit ain't in their wheelhouse. But yeah, another thread.

Y'all are some knowledgeable sumbitches though.

[wood 11,103]

[NoName 16,271]

6 hours ago, wood said:

those old F1 pictures are amazing. mind sharing where you are getting them? may want to get some and print off (or buy prints)

[Guest]

8 hours ago, wood said:

 

Despite liking F1, I am not a car guy. 

This car, however, I want.

[wood 11,103]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

those old F1 pictures are amazing. mind sharing where you are getting them? may want to get some and print off (or buy prints)

Here you go. It's the annual F1 countdown thread on the Autosport board.

https://forums.autosport.com/topic/223018-the-annual-countdown-thread-is-back-heavy-breathing/

[wood 11,103]

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Despite liking F1, I am not a car guy. 

This car, however, I want.

Me, too. And I had a pristine red  '71 240Z with those same rims. They were fairly rare then in the late 80s. Haven't seen any in probably 20 years. Wish I woulda held onto that Z. Such a fun car.

[utee94 15,742]

My best friend in high school had one of these:

 

[Native Horn 3,484]

Fred Akers' daughter also drove a 10th anniversary Z in high school.

[wood 11,103]

Dug up a pic of mine. There are better shots, but this is the only one I could find. This car felt different to drive than any other car I've ever driven, probably mostly because when you sat in it, your butt was right in front of the rear axle. :csb: :offseasonsucks:

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by wood

[faps 806]

Probably discussed on here already, but the chicane at Catalunya confirmed gone. Always hated that thing.

[Guest]

A Verstappen grandstand in Spain? Am I missing something?

[wood 11,103]

1 hour ago, faps said:

Probably discussed on here already, but the chicane at Catalunya confirmed gone. Always hated that thing.

Nice. Now get rid of the 1st chicane.

[faps 806]

16 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

A Verstappen grandstand in Spain? Am I missing something?

Cashing in on the Dutch fans who travel well, while at the same time keeping them all in one grandstand so the rest of the fans don't have to be around them. lol

[utee94 15,742]

2 hours ago, faps said:

Cashing in on the Dutch fans who travel well, while at the same time keeping them all in one grandstand so the rest of the fans don't have to be around them. lol

An orange-smoking section, if you will...

 

[Guest]

FP1 on March 3.

[deft 6,772]

Did I read that they’re already repaving Miami? After one year? They gonna make the infield “harbor” deeper too?

[wood 11,103]

^Yep.

In other news, if you're bored & want something to do, this Brit chick posted a survey on Autosport re: the affect of F1 on climate change. She's doing it as part of her dissertation.  There are some unbelievably over the top suggestions in there. Wow.

https://lboro.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/climate-change-and-formula-1-dissertation-questionnaire

- reduce the number of teams

- eliminate parking lots at GPs

- limit the number of races F1 fans would be allowed to attend

- restrict fans to only attending their home GP

- purchase only vegan food and drink at GPs

 

... etc, etc.

 

[wood 11,103]

AJ, Lotus 38, Indy, 1966

Another Targa Florio, Guiseppe Campari, Alfa Romeo 40-60, 1922

Louis Unser, Pike's Peak, 1951

Rudolf Caracciola, 3 liter V12 Mercedes W154, Livorno, during the 1938 Coppa Ciano.

Same corner, present day

Holden Monaros and Ford Falcons, Bathurst, 1969

The King at Goodwood

Ken Block, RIP, Hoonipigasus, Pike's Peak, 2022

[Updawg 2,260]

^Yep.
In other news, if you're bored & want something to do, this Brit chick posted a survey on Autosport re: the affect of F1 on climate change. She's doing it as part of her dissertation.  There are some unbelievably over the top suggestions in there. Wow.
https://lboro.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/climate-change-and-formula-1-dissertation-questionnaire
- reduce the number of teams
- eliminate parking lots at GPs
- limit the number of races F1 fans would be allowed to attend
- restrict fans to only attending their home GP
- purchase only vegan food and drink at GPs
 
... etc, etc.
 

Makes sense. If you run it out of business there will be zero carbon footprint

[wood 11,103]

37 minutes ago, Updawg said:

Makes sense. If you run it out of business there will be zero carbon footprint

LOL yeah, that's pretty much what I told her in the comment boxes. Just amazing.

[wood 11,103]

Gasly killing a shitload of Brit press story lines

https://www.planetf1.com/news/pierre-gasly-team-mate-tension-60-per-cent-paddock/

Same thing I was telling my kid the other day. The teams without that tension are by far the exception. But hey, they have to create bad guys to make their guys out as the good guys.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, wood said:

Gasly killing a shitload of Brit press story lines

https://www.planetf1.com/news/pierre-gasly-team-mate-tension-60-per-cent-paddock/

Same thing I was telling my kid the other day. The teams without that tension are by far the exception. But hey, they have to create bad guys to make their guys out as the good guys.

Was this not known? You could just look at Valterri and Hamilton and know it was weird, but diplomatic. And you can't tell me that LH isn't pissed that GR outscored him last year. You won't win 7 WDC without being competitive out of your mind.

[NoName 16,271]

53 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Was this not known? You could just look at Valterri and Hamilton and know it was weird, but diplomatic. And you can't tell me that LH isn't pissed that GR outscored him last year. You won't win 7 WDC without being competitive out of your mind.

i think we are seeing more and more that VB is super super super professional.

also i love seeing him out there living his best life. of all the current f1 drivers, if you had to go spend a week with one of them he has to be very very high on the list of guys you would have the most fun with.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, NoName said:

i think we are seeing more and more that VB is super super super professional.

also i love seeing him out there living his best life. of all the current f1 drivers, if you had to go spend a week with one of them he has to be very very high on the list of guys you would have the most fun with.

Yeah, wrote on the other thread he's become my favorite driver now that DR is no longer in the running. Always liked him, but seeing him enjoy himself at Alfa is really great. Just very easy to root for.

[wood 11,103]

5 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Was this not known? You could just look at Valterri and Hamilton and know it was weird, but diplomatic. And you can't tell me that LH isn't pissed that GR outscored him last year. You won't win 7 WDC without being competitive out of your mind.

Yeah I think it was known to anyone who has really paid attention to F1 for long. It's just the F1 press that tries to make it seem unusual and play it up to the Nth degree. Mostly the Brits.

[Goofyboy 3,156]

Was this not known? You could just look at Valterri and Hamilton and know it was weird, but diplomatic. And you can't tell me that LH isn't pissed that GR outscored him last year. You won't win 7 WDC without being competitive out of your mind.

Hamilton was the workhorse for the team early in the year. They had a shit car and gave him all of the things to try. This was talked about and known. He didn’t have anything to be pissed at. He wasn’t going to win last year.

[Guest]

Can someone explain to me the structure of the FIA vs F1?

Is FIA like FIFA and F1 like the Premier League?

 

[wood 11,103]

56 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Can someone explain to me the structure of the FIA vs F1?

Is FIA like FIFA and F1 like the Premier League?

 

The FIA is the rulemaking, governing body for international motorsport. They are the actual owners of the F1 commercial rights. They leased the rights to Bernie Ecclestone in 2000, for 110 years. He later sold the lease of the commercial rights to CVC Capital, but Bernie still ran the show. A few years later, CVC sold to Liberty Media, and they showed Bernie the door. The FIA still owns the rights, but the lease is still in effect, with Liberty currently controlling it. Throughout all of that, the FIA has maintained its status as the rule-maker and governing body.

Edited January 24, 2023 by wood

[Huckleberry 32,685]

18 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

Hamilton was the workhorse for the team early in the year. They had a shit car and gave him all of the things to try. This was talked about and known. He didn’t have anything to be pissed at. He wasn’t going to win last year.

It's okay, little buddy. Your guy is still dreamy.

[Anton Chigurh 3,318]

You are conflating FIA and FOM.

FOM has everything to do with the commercial rights, and Liberty currently owns it with Domenicali as CEO.

FIA is governing body. They make and enforce the rules. Mohammed Ben Sulayem is the current president.

They also sanction WEC, WRC, Formula E, and others.

FIM is the motorcycle version, and they sanction MotoGP. Dorna Sports is MotoGP’s version of FOM.

[Guest]

So that sounds like FIA: F1 is in fact FIFA: Premier League

[Anton Chigurh 3,318]

So that sounds like FIA: F1 is in fact FIFA: Premier League

Kind of, but since FIFA governs international competition only, I think the more apt comparison would be EPL -> FA or UEFA.


*not a soccer person, please correct if wrong.

[wood 11,103]

8 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

You are conflating FIA and FOM.

FOM has everything to do with the commercial rights, and Liberty currently owns it with Domenicali as CEO.

FIA is governing body. They make and enforce the rules. Mohammed Ben Sulayem is the current president.

They also sanction WEC, WRC, Formula E, and others.

FIM is the motorcycle version, and they sanction MotoGP. Dorna Sports is MotoGP’s version of FOM.

Me?

Edited January 25, 2023 by wood

[wood 11,103]

RIP Robin Miller ...

RIP Gilles ...

Edited January 25, 2023 by wood

[Anton Chigurh 3,318]

Me?

I re-read your post and see what you were saying now.

One thing I did not realize is that the European Commission requires that they separate commercial and promotional entities from the rest of the sport. So, while the FIA technically does own the rights, in practice they do not (but of course still make their money from them with their agreement with FOM). But man, there is quite a rabbit hole with the history of FOCA/FOPA/FOM/SLEC/CVC/Liberty. Too many acronyms.

[wood 11,103]

MBS says the FIA will start training future race directors and stewards soon. Good start, I guess. I've only been calling for that for 15 years.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-outlines-plan-for-f1-race-directors-in-2023/10424015/

[wood 11,103]

^

Quote

the FIA is going to roll out a more intense training and development programme to help nurture future race directors and stewards.

This will be formally launched next month when the FIA holds its first High Performance Programme for Officials in Geneva.

There are eight stewards and 16 race directors from across the world signed up for this plan.

As well as that two-day event on February 18-19, trainees will be given a bespoke programme of experience-building through attendance at FIA events to shadow and observe senior officials.

The FIA has also changed the format of its Race Director Seminar and International Stewards Programme away from an annual event. For 2023, it will become a series of webinars to ensure improved dialogue as events develop over the course of the year.

 

[Anton Chigurh 3,318]

No more Johnny Herbert or Paul DiResta on Sky.

[ConferenceRoom 6,123]

I thought they were grooming PDR for Brundle’s replacement. Hopefully this means Ant Davidson takes up that role. Or just bring in Button and let’s call it good. 

[faps 806]

Ant would be great imo, same with Jensen. Hopefully Brundle carries on for another five years or more though.

Plz no Karun.

[Burt Macklin 18,988]

1 hour ago, ConferenceRoom said:

I thought they were grooming PDR for Brundle’s replacement. Hopefully this means Ant Davidson takes up that role. Or just bring in Button and let’s call it good. 

Replacing Brundle with PDR would’ve been a nightmare. PDR  was terrible. 
 

I’ve liked both Button and Rosberg in Brundle’s role, but I’m not sure either would want to do it full time. Alex Brundle, Martin’s son, has done a really good job in junior formula and F1 TV.